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About the Penny Arcade Job Posting

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    KadithKadith Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    I mean for me there are personal reasons I would not want this job and won't apply for it.

    Professionally it'd be a nice step up, I think I'd have a good chance at being in the running for it. The biggest difference between my current job and it would be the heavier focus on web stuff and the 24/7 on call. But it'd most certainly be a pay increase and have better benefits, and i'd be better appreciated. Sure saying they're not money-motivated is a terrible way to phrase it. But the truth is pay is not everything to everyone. Despite my low pay I actually enjoy my current job for several reasons and I can see why someone else could take this job even if someone else offered them better pay.

    Kadith on
    zkHcp.jpg
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    HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    Stale wrote: »
    God this entire discourse is just fucking precious

    You find us a beat up old camper and I'll start gathering up lab equipment.

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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    It's not that unreasonable to expect somebody to take less money to do something that they find fulfilling or which is a great opportunity for other reasons. I saw that a lot working at/with nonprofits. PA isn't a nonprofit (at least, mostly not), but based on the video/podcast content seems to have a lot of the features of one that people find appealing.

    The problem would be that this doesn't seem like the kind of position you can put off filling until you find the Right Person™.

    hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
    that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Avraham wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    GhostDan wrote: »
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Yeah they're not looking for someone with decades of experience in each category, they're looking for someone with like three years total in the field who's worked on / somewhat capable of working on a variety of areas.

    So they are looking for a guy with limited experience to run a 1 person IT department? That will work out well.

    So far, it seems to work

    I don't see what's the problem
    Except it doesn't quite work.
    I popped a lung and spent a week in the hospital, right before a scheduled launch. They pushed out the launch, came and visited me in the hospital, brought me delicious Asian snacks and lent me a Vita to help pass the time. Last December, I was dealing with a lot of unrelated anxiety and depression issues. It screwed over the project I was working on at the time...
    I'm armchair quarterbacking, but if you have two guys wearing two hats instead of one guy wearing four, maybe they have some downtime to waste an hour on reddit each day, but also projects won't come to a halt when one guy is sick.

    If Mike falls over and breaks his arm, we're up shit creek. Clearly we need to hire two additional artists, just in case. Sure, most of the time we won't need them, but what if?

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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    so out of perverse curiosity, i decided to look up the wages for comparable positions (SysAdmin, Software Dev) in the Seattle metro area, according to the U.S. Dept. of Labor.

    SysAdmins with 3 years min experience earn $68,910 to $80,787 annually.

    Software Devs earn $87,547 to $101,899 year annually.

    again, these are averages for the area according to federal and state wage surveys updated every year, and they are often inflated. i've seen all of the "anecdotal" posts in here claiming that "i've got a friend that makes 200k doing less!", and i am calling them bullshit. great, your one friend earns bank. he or she is probably a statistical outlier. the rest of the market, in the meantime, pays something else, or there are particular facts in your friend's case that allow for a higher salary.

    in any event, whoever applies for the position can negotiate with Khoo for a salary that works for everyone involved. the job posting itself is upfront about the possibility of negotiating and the nature of the position. this is entirely different than, say, Wal-Mart paying way below a livable wage and then running a food drive for its own employees. this is a position that pays pretty decently for a LOT of people, and includes really really good benefits (health/dental/questionable comedic environment of a video game webcomic)

    the complaints about the position posting are seriously bent.

    ffNewSig.png
    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    this is perhaps the most baffling argument i've ever seen on this forum

    gcum67ktu9e4.pngimg
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    JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Avraham wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    GhostDan wrote: »
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Yeah they're not looking for someone with decades of experience in each category, they're looking for someone with like three years total in the field who's worked on / somewhat capable of working on a variety of areas.

    So they are looking for a guy with limited experience to run a 1 person IT department? That will work out well.

    So far, it seems to work

    I don't see what's the problem
    Except it doesn't quite work.
    I popped a lung and spent a week in the hospital, right before a scheduled launch. They pushed out the launch, came and visited me in the hospital, brought me delicious Asian snacks and lent me a Vita to help pass the time. Last December, I was dealing with a lot of unrelated anxiety and depression issues. It screwed over the project I was working on at the time...
    I'm armchair quarterbacking, but if you have two guys wearing two hats instead of one guy wearing four, maybe they have some downtime to waste an hour on reddit each day, but also projects won't come to a halt when one guy is sick.

    If Mike falls over and breaks his arm, we're up shit creek. Clearly we need to hire two additional artists, just in case. Sure, most of the time we won't need them, but what if?

    The the NY Jets strategy? Except instead of 7 quarterbacks we have 7 artists? Brilliant.

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    HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    this is perhaps the most baffling argument i've ever seen on this forum

    You weren't here for Airplane + Treadmill = Take Off were you?

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    chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    so out of perverse curiosity, i decided to look up the wages for comparable positions (SysAdmin, Software Dev) in the Seattle metro area, according to the U.S. Dept. of Labor.

    SysAdmins with 3 years min experience earn $68,910 to $80,787 annually.

    Software Devs earn $87,547 to $101,899 year annually.

    again, these are averages for the area according to federal and state wage surveys updated every year, and they are often inflated. i've seen all of the "anecdotal" posts in here claiming that "i've got a friend that makes 200k doing less!", and i am calling them bullshit. great, your one friend earns bank. he or she is probably a statistical outlier. the rest of the market, in the meantime, pays something else, or there are particular facts in your friend's case that allow for a higher salary.

    in any event, whoever applies for the position can negotiate with Khoo for a salary that works for everyone involved. the job posting itself is upfront about the possibility of negotiating and the nature of the position. this is entirely different than, say, Wal-Mart paying way below a livable wage and then running a food drive for its own employees. this is a position that pays pretty decently for a LOT of people, and includes really really good benefits (health/dental/questionable comedic environment of a video game webcomic)

    the complaints about the position posting are seriously bent.

    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.

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    HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    JackdawGin wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Avraham wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    GhostDan wrote: »
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Yeah they're not looking for someone with decades of experience in each category, they're looking for someone with like three years total in the field who's worked on / somewhat capable of working on a variety of areas.

    So they are looking for a guy with limited experience to run a 1 person IT department? That will work out well.

    So far, it seems to work

    I don't see what's the problem
    Except it doesn't quite work.
    I popped a lung and spent a week in the hospital, right before a scheduled launch. They pushed out the launch, came and visited me in the hospital, brought me delicious Asian snacks and lent me a Vita to help pass the time. Last December, I was dealing with a lot of unrelated anxiety and depression issues. It screwed over the project I was working on at the time...
    I'm armchair quarterbacking, but if you have two guys wearing two hats instead of one guy wearing four, maybe they have some downtime to waste an hour on reddit each day, but also projects won't come to a halt when one guy is sick.

    If Mike falls over and breaks his arm, we're up shit creek. Clearly we need to hire two additional artists, just in case. Sure, most of the time we won't need them, but what if?

    The the NY Jets strategy? Except instead of 7 quarterbacks we have 7 artists? Brilliant.

    If PA was utilizing the NY Jets strategy, Mike would have ran up Khoo's butt and fumbled his digital drawing tablet.

  • Options
    JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    so out of perverse curiosity, i decided to look up the wages for comparable positions (SysAdmin, Software Dev) in the Seattle metro area, according to the U.S. Dept. of Labor.

    SysAdmins with 3 years min experience earn $68,910 to $80,787 annually.

    Software Devs earn $87,547 to $101,899 year annually.

    again, these are averages for the area according to federal and state wage surveys updated every year, and they are often inflated. i've seen all of the "anecdotal" posts in here claiming that "i've got a friend that makes 200k doing less!", and i am calling them bullshit. great, your one friend earns bank. he or she is probably a statistical outlier. the rest of the market, in the meantime, pays something else, or there are particular facts in your friend's case that allow for a higher salary.

    in any event, whoever applies for the position can negotiate with Khoo for a salary that works for everyone involved. the job posting itself is upfront about the possibility of negotiating and the nature of the position. this is entirely different than, say, Wal-Mart paying way below a livable wage and then running a food drive for its own employees. this is a position that pays pretty decently for a LOT of people, and includes really really good benefits (health/dental/questionable comedic environment of a video game webcomic)

    the complaints about the position posting are seriously bent.

    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.

    So obviously they should be paying 2x to 3x the salary?

  • Options
    JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    Hunter wrote: »
    JackdawGin wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Avraham wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    GhostDan wrote: »
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Yeah they're not looking for someone with decades of experience in each category, they're looking for someone with like three years total in the field who's worked on / somewhat capable of working on a variety of areas.

    So they are looking for a guy with limited experience to run a 1 person IT department? That will work out well.

    So far, it seems to work

    I don't see what's the problem
    Except it doesn't quite work.
    I popped a lung and spent a week in the hospital, right before a scheduled launch. They pushed out the launch, came and visited me in the hospital, brought me delicious Asian snacks and lent me a Vita to help pass the time. Last December, I was dealing with a lot of unrelated anxiety and depression issues. It screwed over the project I was working on at the time...
    I'm armchair quarterbacking, but if you have two guys wearing two hats instead of one guy wearing four, maybe they have some downtime to waste an hour on reddit each day, but also projects won't come to a halt when one guy is sick.

    If Mike falls over and breaks his arm, we're up shit creek. Clearly we need to hire two additional artists, just in case. Sure, most of the time we won't need them, but what if?

    The the NY Jets strategy? Except instead of 7 quarterbacks we have 7 artists? Brilliant.

    If PA was utilizing the NY Jets strategy, Mike would have ran up Khoo's butt and fumbled his digital drawing tablet.

    Khoo would also have gain about 150 lbs and get way better at yelling.

  • Options
    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.

    No, they're asking for someone who can do elements of several jobs. If PA had a full time sysadmin, he would spend most of his time staring at the walls. It would therefore be stupid to hire a full time sysadmin.

  • Options
    HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    so out of perverse curiosity, i decided to look up the wages for comparable positions (SysAdmin, Software Dev) in the Seattle metro area, according to the U.S. Dept. of Labor.

    SysAdmins with 3 years min experience earn $68,910 to $80,787 annually.

    Software Devs earn $87,547 to $101,899 year annually.

    again, these are averages for the area according to federal and state wage surveys updated every year, and they are often inflated. i've seen all of the "anecdotal" posts in here claiming that "i've got a friend that makes 200k doing less!", and i am calling them bullshit. great, your one friend earns bank. he or she is probably a statistical outlier. the rest of the market, in the meantime, pays something else, or there are particular facts in your friend's case that allow for a higher salary.

    in any event, whoever applies for the position can negotiate with Khoo for a salary that works for everyone involved. the job posting itself is upfront about the possibility of negotiating and the nature of the position. this is entirely different than, say, Wal-Mart paying way below a livable wage and then running a food drive for its own employees. this is a position that pays pretty decently for a LOT of people, and includes really really good benefits (health/dental/questionable comedic environment of a video game webcomic)

    the complaints about the position posting are seriously bent.

    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.

    I was hired as an R&D Chemist. It's my title. It's the job I like to do.

    However, I'm also a QA person, applications tester, safety team member, trial support team member, technical asset for customer complaints, new product/process gate keeper, and a technical lead for the use of our products in plastic films.

    Do you think I get paid for my title of R&D Chemist as well as an extra check for working in say QA or in customer support?

  • Options
    T4CTT4CT BAFTA-NOMINATED NAFTA-APPROVEDRegistered User regular
    this is perhaps the most baffling argument i've ever seen on this forum

    i didn't believe it was even a discussion that was happening when i woke up yesterday

    and i am fucking flabbergasted that it is somehow still going

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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    so out of perverse curiosity, i decided to look up the wages for comparable positions (SysAdmin, Software Dev) in the Seattle metro area, according to the U.S. Dept. of Labor.

    SysAdmins with 3 years min experience earn $68,910 to $80,787 annually.

    Software Devs earn $87,547 to $101,899 year annually.

    again, these are averages for the area according to federal and state wage surveys updated every year, and they are often inflated. i've seen all of the "anecdotal" posts in here claiming that "i've got a friend that makes 200k doing less!", and i am calling them bullshit. great, your one friend earns bank. he or she is probably a statistical outlier. the rest of the market, in the meantime, pays something else, or there are particular facts in your friend's case that allow for a higher salary.

    in any event, whoever applies for the position can negotiate with Khoo for a salary that works for everyone involved. the job posting itself is upfront about the possibility of negotiating and the nature of the position. this is entirely different than, say, Wal-Mart paying way below a livable wage and then running a food drive for its own employees. this is a position that pays pretty decently for a LOT of people, and includes really really good benefits (health/dental/questionable comedic environment of a video game webcomic)

    the complaints about the position posting are seriously bent.

    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.

    Those are salaries for someone doing each of those jobs full time.
    PA doesn't need someone doing each of those jobs full time or else they would be trying to hire someone to do them full time.
    They need someone to do those jobs part time, and if they can (they will) find one person who can do that part time job and other part time jobs they need instead of multiple people to do multiple part time jobs, then that's what they'll look and pay for!

    Psykoma on
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    AvrahamAvraham Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Avraham wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    GhostDan wrote: »
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Yeah they're not looking for someone with decades of experience in each category, they're looking for someone with like three years total in the field who's worked on / somewhat capable of working on a variety of areas.

    So they are looking for a guy with limited experience to run a 1 person IT department? That will work out well.

    So far, it seems to work

    I don't see what's the problem
    Except it doesn't quite work.
    I popped a lung and spent a week in the hospital, right before a scheduled launch. They pushed out the launch, came and visited me in the hospital, brought me delicious Asian snacks and lent me a Vita to help pass the time. Last December, I was dealing with a lot of unrelated anxiety and depression issues. It screwed over the project I was working on at the time...
    I'm armchair quarterbacking, but if you have two guys wearing two hats instead of one guy wearing four, maybe they have some downtime to waste an hour on reddit each day, but also projects won't come to a halt when one guy is sick.

    If Mike falls over and breaks his arm, we're up shit creek. Clearly we need to hire two additional artists, just in case. Sure, most of the time we won't need them, but what if?

    That's what guest comics and freelance artists are for, and they already do that with Lookouts and such. The infrastructure of the business runs fine without Mike and Jerry.

    :bz: :bz: :bzz:
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    T4CTT4CT BAFTA-NOMINATED NAFTA-APPROVEDRegistered User regular
    i would also be astonished if anyone employed in a career position currently felt as though their job did NOT involve 4 or more different job aspects

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    chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.

    No, they're asking for someone who can do elements of several jobs. If PA had a full time sysadmin, he would spend most of his time staring at the walls. It would therefore be stupid to hire a full time sysadmin.

    Then outsource it completely and just hire a web developer. It reads like they don't know exactly what they need but what they had was working so they are asking for what they had again, only when you write out what they have it just doesn't add up.

    Godspeed to whoever takes this job, it is going to crush them.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    My job is full time googleist.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    JayKaosJayKaos Registered User regular
    Hunter wrote: »
    this is perhaps the most baffling argument i've ever seen on this forum

    You weren't here for Airplane + Treadmill = Take Off were you?

    To my eternal shame, I was on the wrong side of that argument for a long time. Though not here I don't think.

    Steam | SW-0844-0908-6004 and my Switch code
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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Agreeing with Hunter, its pretty common place to be hired under one title but do tasks outside it, that happens in all fields.

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    GriswoldGriswold that's rough, buddyRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.
    No, they're asking for someone who can do elements of several jobs. If PA had a full time sysadmin, he would spend most of his time staring at the walls. It would therefore be stupid to hire a full time sysadmin.

    Then outsource it completely and just hire a web developer. It reads like they don't know exactly what they need but what they had was working so they are asking for what they had again, only when you write out what they have it just doesn't add up.

    Godspeed to whoever takes this job, it is going to crush them.

    Just, lol.

    I wonder how many people posting in this thread are familiar with the realities of working at a small company.

    FFXIV: Brick Shizzhouse - Zalera (Crystal)
    Path of Exile: snowcrash7
    MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
    Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
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    TubeTube Registered User admin
    Tube wrote: »
    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.

    No, they're asking for someone who can do elements of several jobs. If PA had a full time sysadmin, he would spend most of his time staring at the walls. It would therefore be stupid to hire a full time sysadmin.

    Then outsource it completely and just hire a web developer. It reads like they don't know exactly what they need but what they had was working so they are asking for what they had again, only when you write out what they have it just doesn't add up.

    Godspeed to whoever takes this job, it is going to crush them.

    I would suggest that since the job has only has two people filling it in 15 years that it does not "crush" people at any noticeable rate.

  • Options
    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.

    that's always a problem. employers look for people who have multiple talents. surprise! an employer wants his or her employees to provide really good value!

    the reason i'm posting these figures is because i'm trying to point out, with factual evidence, that the salary expectations everyone is spouting in this thread are out of whack with what's actually going on. also, salaries are generally based not just on the required education and experience but also on the actual work hours needed. even if one person is called on to do multiple roles, that same person will be doing a set amount of hours of work per year. an employer would not want to avoid paying more than the time and effort a person put in, because that would be simply bad for the business.

    in that sense, it'd be "fair" to say the range of pay for the PA position is somewhere from $68,910 to $101,899 per year. that wage range can provide for a very comfortable lifestyle, depending of course on the employee's own situation.

    what doesn't make sense is completely blind outrage on a job posting that doesn't even fucking list a salary figure. what doesn't make sense is anger over assumptions made in this thread.

    ffNewSig.png
    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
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    chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    Griswold wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.
    No, they're asking for someone who can do elements of several jobs. If PA had a full time sysadmin, he would spend most of his time staring at the walls. It would therefore be stupid to hire a full time sysadmin.

    Then outsource it completely and just hire a web developer. It reads like they don't know exactly what they need but what they had was working so they are asking for what they had again, only when you write out what they have it just doesn't add up.

    Godspeed to whoever takes this job, it is going to crush them.

    Just, lol.

    I wonder how many people posting in this thread are familiar with the realities of working at a small company.

    More than you think.

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    OverloadedOverloaded Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Avraham wrote: »
    Dubh wrote: »
    GhostDan wrote: »
    JayKaos wrote: »
    Yeah they're not looking for someone with decades of experience in each category, they're looking for someone with like three years total in the field who's worked on / somewhat capable of working on a variety of areas.

    So they are looking for a guy with limited experience to run a 1 person IT department? That will work out well.

    So far, it seems to work

    I don't see what's the problem
    Except it doesn't quite work.
    I popped a lung and spent a week in the hospital, right before a scheduled launch. They pushed out the launch, came and visited me in the hospital, brought me delicious Asian snacks and lent me a Vita to help pass the time. Last December, I was dealing with a lot of unrelated anxiety and depression issues. It screwed over the project I was working on at the time...
    I'm armchair quarterbacking, but if you have two guys wearing two hats instead of one guy wearing four, maybe they have some downtime to waste an hour on reddit each day, but also projects won't come to a halt when one guy is sick.

    If Mike falls over and breaks his arm, we're up shit creek. Clearly we need to hire two additional artists, just in case. Sure, most of the time we won't need them, but what if?

    While that would be a tragedy, you have Scott Kurtz, Katie Rice, the entire cast of Strip Search, and any number of other web comic artists who I'm sure could ably fill in in that case. The comic would be different, but it could go on until Mike recovered. Learning the entire code base, getting access to the servers, getting up to speed on whatever projects were being worked on, etc, is not nearly as easy, not to mention even finding a contractor you trust to handle all that on such short notice. Why a web-based company would want to be in such a precarious position is just baffling. Surely they can find two more people in the world who would fit into the existing culture and also know how to restart Apache.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Hunter wrote: »
    I was hired as an R&D Chemist. It's my title. It's the job I like to do.

    However, I'm also a QA person, applications tester, safety team member, trial support team member, technical asset for customer complaints, new product/process gate keeper, and a technical lead for the use of our products in plastic films.

    Do you think I get paid for my title of R&D Chemist as well as an extra check for working in say QA or in customer support?

    I don't know much about chemistry, but those job requirements all seem related to your field.

    A system administrator isn't a programmer, those are two entirely different fields.

    It's like comparing a dentist with a surgeon.

    I hope it works out for them, though, because those are a lot of skills to have.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    RentRent I'm always right Fuckin' deal with itRegistered User regular
    If the job requires four separate, qualified full-time positions, why not hire four separate, qualified full-time people to take it?

    Wouldn't you rather want to pay slightly more and have the jobs done well over poorly? Because that's what happens when you hire one person to do the workload of four, you get rushed and shoddy work.

    Why isn't this position that requires four separate areas of expertise, in addition to the constant necessity for on-call work, compensated for extremely well commiserate to the amount of knowledge and work expected?

    If the tables were turned and a Microsoft job posting insisted on four separate, qualified areas of expertise for a singular position on top of constant on-call status and a with environment that could easily be interpreted as offensive bordering on "hostile", would there be any justification or defense for that?

    It's hard to see this job posting as anything but an exploitation of the pa fanbase because if this were any other company this posting would be immediately rejected. It honestly sends like a rather cynical and calculated move to financially exploit the fans because there's a knowledge that the unique position afforded to penny arcade allows them to get away with it.

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    GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    If Mike falls over and breaks his arm, we're up shit creek. Clearly we need to hire two additional artists, just in case. Sure, most of the time we won't need them, but what if?

    As an aside, I'm of the thought that if Mike falls over and breaks his arm, Alex Hobbs gets a very interesting phone call. But hopefully that day doesn't come.

    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
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    JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    T4CT wrote: »
    i would also be astonished if anyone employed in a career position currently felt as though their job did NOT involve 4 or more different job aspects

    In addition to being an engineer I've also been a copy editor, delivery man, safety inspector, non-union laborer, scissor lift operator and tour guide.

    I've also done something which they described as "construction inspection" and I described as "reading a fucking book" because the task required so little of my actual attention.

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    PsykomaPsykoma Registered User regular
    Rent wrote: »
    If the job requires four separate, qualified full-time positions,

    Because it doesn't?

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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    Rent wrote: »
    It's hard to see this job posting as anything but an exploitation of the pa fanbase because if this were any other company this posting would be immediately rejected. It honestly sends like a rather cynical and calculated move to financially exploit the fans because there's a knowledge that the unique position afforded to penny arcade allows them to get away with it.

    what.

    http://jobview.monster.com/Software-Developer-Engineer-Job-Seattle-WA-127980674.aspx

    http://jobview.monster.com/Mobile-Software-Developer-Job-Seattle-WA-127984137.aspx

    http://jobview.monster.com/Junior-Software-Developer-Job-Seattle-WA-127871144.aspx

    you guys need to seriously recalibrate your sense of "outrage". holy fucking shit.

    the PA job posting is actually one of the better postings i've seen recently. and i look at job postings regularly as part of my fucking job.

    the goosery in this thread is really REALLY pissing me off.

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    chamberlainchamberlain Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.

    No, they're asking for someone who can do elements of several jobs. If PA had a full time sysadmin, he would spend most of his time staring at the walls. It would therefore be stupid to hire a full time sysadmin.

    Then outsource it completely and just hire a web developer. It reads like they don't know exactly what they need but what they had was working so they are asking for what they had again, only when you write out what they have it just doesn't add up.

    Godspeed to whoever takes this job, it is going to crush them.

    I would suggest that since the job has only has two people filling it in 15 years that it does not "crush" people at any noticeable rate.

    No, but it may crush the bright eyed, bushy tailed twenty something who will actually get the job.

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    KenninatorKenninator Registered User regular
    I think that maybe grown adults should be able to make decisions for themselves without internet warriors trying to protect them from imaginary threats.

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    JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    Kenninator wrote: »
    I think that maybe grown adults should be able to make decisions for themselves without internet warriors trying to protect them from imaginary threats.

    But then were will they go to white-knight?

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    LiiyaLiiya Registered User regular
    Exploitation would be not telling applicants what was expected of them, that they needed to perform several roles rather than just one. It has been made very clear what is expected, and at what terms/benefits, and it is up to the individual to make the decision on whether or not they like those terms. No one is being deceived here.

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    HunterHunter Chemist with a heart of Au Registered User regular
    edited November 2013
    Griswold wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.
    No, they're asking for someone who can do elements of several jobs. If PA had a full time sysadmin, he would spend most of his time staring at the walls. It would therefore be stupid to hire a full time sysadmin.

    Then outsource it completely and just hire a web developer. It reads like they don't know exactly what they need but what they had was working so they are asking for what they had again, only when you write out what they have it just doesn't add up.

    Godspeed to whoever takes this job, it is going to crush them.

    Just, lol.

    I wonder how many people posting in this thread are familiar with the realities of working at a small company.

    Large or small, the description states it's a lean organization. In a lean business model, each employee will have to wear multiple hats. The perk is when working for a smaller company that is privately owned, there's a good chance they will treat you like a human being with actual physical limits and basic needs. I can not see Khoo grinding someone into dust and then just shit canning them...what I can see is the whole PA crew working hard but then going to PAX and having an awesome time.
    Rent wrote: »
    If the job requires four separate, qualified full-time positions, why not hire four separate, qualified full-time people to take it?

    Wouldn't you rather want to pay slightly more and have the jobs done well over poorly? Because that's what happens when you hire one person to do the workload of four, you get rushed and shoddy work.

    Why isn't this position that requires four separate areas of expertise, in addition to the constant necessity for on-call work, compensated for extremely well commiserate to the amount of knowledge and work expected?

    If the tables were turned and a Microsoft job posting insisted on four separate, qualified areas of expertise for a singular position on top of constant on-call status and a with environment that could easily be interpreted as offensive bordering on "hostile", would there be any justification or defense for that?

    It's hard to see this job posting as anything but an exploitation of the pa fanbase because if this were any other company this posting would be immediately rejected. It honestly sends like a rather cynical and calculated move to financially exploit the fans because there's a knowledge that the unique position afforded to penny arcade allows them to get away with it.

    The fact that it is a non-required and actually paid position pretty much proves that it's not an exploitation of jack and/or shit. Now if it was a requirement to work for 3 years for PA as an indentured servant in exchange for being able to post on this site or to attend PAX, then I would agree with you.

    Hunter on
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    fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Here's the problem: those estimates are for someone who is just a sysadim or just a software dev. They are looking for both, plus more, in one person.

    No, they're asking for someone who can do elements of several jobs. If PA had a full time sysadmin, he would spend most of his time staring at the walls. It would therefore be stupid to hire a full time sysadmin.

    Then outsource it completely and just hire a web developer. It reads like they don't know exactly what they need but what they had was working so they are asking for what they had again, only when you write out what they have it just doesn't add up.

    Godspeed to whoever takes this job, it is going to crush them.

    I would suggest that since the job has only has two people filling it in 15 years that it does not "crush" people at any noticeable rate.

    No, but it may crush the bright eyed, bushy tailed twenty something who will actually get the job.

    the fact that Alphamonkey and Kenneth BOTH enjoyed their time working for PA really really undermines your assertion.

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    DVGDVG No. 1 Honor Student Nether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered User regular
    Overloaded wrote: »
    Butters wrote: »
    I am a professional in this field, and I would apply for it if I were in a place in my life where I could move to Seattle. If I were, then I have various ideas (and in some case functional prototypes) of ways PA could expand some of it's brands and increase their value and presence on the web, and it would be rad to actually be ablt to talk to them about it and show them what I already built in my free time.

    Really, internet outrage is just exhausting. There were no specific figures dicussed, but because they were honest that people at this company tend to spend a lot of time at work and don't necessarily get paid top dollar they think they have the right to complain endlessly despite knowing no specifics.

    So just out of curiosity: How old are you? How long have you been in the field? Are you married? Do you have kids? Medical expenses? A mortgage? A car?

    Also I'll point out that you're interested in the job, but not willing to move for it. Would that change if they were offering, say, $200,000/year plus moving expenses?

    There are no figures mentioned, but we know that it doesn't pay enough to put away any kind of significant savings while living in the area. It's certainly possible that this is all just an elaborate ruse meant to weed out people who wouldn't want to work at PA for free, then pay them well anyway. But assuming that everyone is being honest, this post makes that seem a lot less likely.

    I am married and just had my first son, who we named Gabe, interestingly enough.

    I'm 30 and I've been in software for 10 years.

    Not wanting to move to Seattle has nothing to do with any job, but rather that my wife is extremely close with her family, and even though if I had an offer on the table I think she'd insist we go for it, I couldn't do that to her. So no, dollar amount has no bearing whatsoever

    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
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