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[PA "Big Year"] PATV and PAR are sacrificed to summon Lookouts and Automata

2

Posts

  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    Wraith260 wrote: »
    i posted my thoughts about this over in the industry thread, but i guess they're better off in here.
    when talking about the end of PAR and PATV*, i think it's worth noting the things that haven't been talked about yet. after last years Kickstarter there's been no mention of how the site will be funded next year. will ads be returning to the front page or have they found another means of income? there's been no mention of the next season of PATV/Strip Search.

    i get the feeling that there's more to this announcement than we've so far been told, and that we should expect to hear more about the future of PA in the coming weeks.

    *though this change only seems to pertain to 3rd part content. seems PATV will still exist in some capacity.

    i really think this is just the beginning of the changes we'll be seeing at PA. it seems that they want to focus their time and energy on content creation, to actually go back the roots of what PA is, a creative outlet for Mike and Gerry. hopefully it wont be too long before we start to hear more about their plans for the future.

    I do have to wonder why these things can't exist as a side to the core of PA.
    Nerdist and Geek and Sundry seem to do a fair job at providing content simply as a Youtube Channel and PAR can act as it's own site. My question is, why shutter the doors when they could simply let it spin off?
    Run PATV as a YouTube channel (As it already is) and turn PAR into it's own site.
    Let Penny-Arcade.com be the starfish that occasionally shores it's limbs to make more starfish.

    On the other hand:
    At least with PAR I can see how it would lead to a lot of difficulties initially, though. It would mean re-establishing itself and about a year or two of low-to-no wages. Also we could just end up seeing Checkpoint, SUSD and Extra Credits being picked up by one of the other popular YouTube channels already out there.

  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    it may be a manpower/financial thing. its all well and good letting PAR do its thing but you've got to pay the people involved and creating/running the site is going to take up the time of their tech person/people. time that they may feel is better spent on other projects.

    hosting shows on PATV might not be on the same level, but its still going to be a draw on their limited resources.

    maybe they'll talk more about what went into these decisions and why they were made in the future, but for now it seems that they'd really rather just focus on their own projects rather than curate others.

  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Last I checked all those projects are still running. They just aren't getting PA's support. With the exception of the PA report which is understandable since that actually contains their brand's name. But it strikes me as wholly reasonable that Mike and Jerry should decide to allocate their time and resources to the things they'd rather be doing rather than continue to support and expand a business they're okay with.

    Wraith260shrykeEssee
  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    yeah, Jerry posted links for where to find the shows from PATV now that they'll no longer be hosting them on the site. they aren't being scrapped by any means, PA are just focusing their attention on their own projects.

    Wraith260 on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 Registered User regular
    I'm super-stoked for more Automata and Lookouts

    I'm really irritated that they're getting rid of PAR for more fucking pin bullshit

    sig.png
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Ain't no one forcing you to buy pins dude.

    TehSpectreWraith260jeffinvaA Dabble Of Thelonius
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    >>

  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    I'm super-stoked for more Automata and Lookouts

    I'm really irritated that they're getting rid of PAR for more fucking pin bullshit

    i don't think its a trade off. i mean its not like they had to choose one or the other pins or PAR. but the pins are proving to be pretty popular and i imagine that they pretty much pay for themselves, whereas i don't think PAR really developed the following that they'd hoped it would. no doubt there are ways to fix that, but all of them would require time and money and it looks like they'd rather invest that time and money in themselves.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Anyone who is mad about PA senselessly working on pins instead of whatever thing it is they like should be conscious of the fact that they are posting about how mad that makes them on a forum that is paid for by, among other things, pins.

    QuidWraith260spool32RMS OceanicAManFromEarthJackdawGinDevoutlyApatheticMoridin889AegeriDedwrekkaNightslyrEsseeknitdanmcdermott
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Wraith260 wrote: »
    I'm super-stoked for more Automata and Lookouts

    I'm really irritated that they're getting rid of PAR for more fucking pin bullshit

    i don't think its a trade off. i mean its not like they had to choose one or the other pins or PAR. but the pins are proving to be pretty popular and i imagine that they pretty much pay for themselves, whereas i don't think PAR really developed the following that they'd hoped it would. no doubt there are ways to fix that, but all of them would require time and money and it looks like they'd rather invest that time and money in themselves.

    Here's a thing - I seem to have stopped reading PAR when they switched to the white-background new format and diluted their content with fewer things from Ben. I want to be upset that PAR is gone but the new format sort of turned me off reading it for reasons I can't quite articulate. I feel like the PAR I liked was already mostly gone.

  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    i think those involved knew exactly what they wanted PAR to be, they just weren't 100% sure how to make it happen. i think the site was still in its growing pains phase, and had it been planned as a long term investment rather than seemingly launched on a whim,then perhaps it would have been given the time to really find itself.

    perhaps if some other media outlet was willing to give it a go, or at least try something similar, we might still see that original ambition realised.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    The other thing to bear in mind for all the people who are "ugh, pins" is that a lot of people really like the pins. It's not just some nebulous marketing gimmick, it's a thing that people enjoy collecting. The fans of it started a site off their own backs and talk about collecting and trading all the time. They're really enthusiastic about it. I get that maybe it's not everyone's thing (it's not my thing) but I hate this idea of "ugh these shitty fucking pins why are they doing that and not the thing I like". The reason PA are making pins is because it turns out that making a ton of people happy by making little pins that I can only presume turn a profit is pretty enjoyable stuff. You don't have to like it, but don't shit on other people who do.

    Quidnever dieAegerishrykeEsseemcdermott
  • HenroidHenroid How do you get a centrist to change their mind? Take away their privilege.Registered User regular
    ... What the heck are pins? <_<

    Seeking artists for well-paid commissions. PM me.
    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
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  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    Yeah, I'm not that interested in pins, but people like them and buy them and keep PA going by doing so, so...

    yay pins?

    TheCanManshrykemcdermott
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... What the heck are pins? <_<

    Just in case you were serious:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/pinny-arcade

    It's been kind of a thing for a handful of years now, and has a rather fervent collector's community.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • JurgJurg In a TeacupRegistered User regular
    So many pins.

    I've got limited clothing real estate, yo. And I'm not into collecting things for the sake of collecting.

    Never actually bought PA pins, but I've got one on my jacket (that I think would be diluted by additional pins), and FOUR on my knit hat.

    Truthfully, though? If they made The World Ends With You pins I'd probably buy all of them.

    sig.gif
    Essee
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Wraith260 wrote: »
    it may be a manpower/financial thing. its all well and good letting PAR do its thing but you've got to pay the people involved and creating/running the site is going to take up the time of their tech person/people. time that they may feel is better spent on other projects.

    hosting shows on PATV might not be on the same level, but its still going to be a draw on their limited resources.

    maybe they'll talk more about what went into these decisions and why they were made in the future, but for now it seems that they'd really rather just focus on their own projects rather than curate others.

    It all makes sense now. This is because of Obamacare!

    What is this I don't even.
    Wraith260JurgLostNinja
  • HenroidHenroid How do you get a centrist to change their mind? Take away their privilege.Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... What the heck are pins? <_<

    Just in case you were serious:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/pinny-arcade

    It's been kind of a thing for a handful of years now, and has a rather fervent collector's community.

    100% serious. Apparently I am the worst PA fan.

    Seeking artists for well-paid commissions. PM me.
    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    Dark Raven Xa5ehrenWearingglassesMulysaSempronius
  • JackdawGinJackdawGin Engineer New YorkRegistered User regular
    JackdawGin wrote: »
    Dedwrekka wrote: »
    Huh. Wonder if the LinkedIn stuff had anything to do with this.

    I'll admit I had to look that up. But I think the guy who currently holds that job actually answered that pretty well on his own.
    (Warning, the link leads to Social Entropy)

    For the others who missed it:
    Penny Arcade Posts The Scariest Job Ad of All Time
    On Penny Arcade, Exploitation, and the Myth of the Do-Everything Rock Star

    Penny Arcade's brutally honest job posting spurs Internet backlash

    I think the fact that people can actually enjoy the work experience at Penny Arcade confuses the internet, who seem to think that there's three guys with guns just out of frame in PA:The Series.

    No, it's that the internet considers a job that requires you to be on call 24/7, to play four different jobs with their own unique skillsets, and where the compensation is expressed as low to be problematic at best, for a number of reasons. If the exact same listing was put up by, say, EA, we would all be openly criticizing it.

    And rightly so. If EA put up a posting like that we would be asking why a company with thousands of employees needs one guy to do so much. But PA has only 20ish (or less). Its completely understandable for a small business to want one person to fill multiple roles. That's what small businesses do. Your employees work as a group for the company doing many things and are only exclusive to a single task where it makes sense.

    We're talking about a company that runs three massive trade shows internationally, manages a multimillion dollar charity, and has a sizable multimedia empire that has done work for household names (even if they have announced they are scaling it back to refocus.)

    Your definition of "small business" probably does not match mine.

    If a company employs less thank 50 people, it's a small business according to our government. Penny Arcade as stated above, employs around 16 people. I've known worked at both office stores and nurseries/florists that employ more. Volunteers are not employees, and are irrelevant to discussions about whether an company is or is not a small business.

    Yes they do manage a multimillion dollar charity. It's managed by two people which is considerably less than most charities. Before it was closed PA Report was run with 4-5 people, again a fraction of what most gaming news sites have on staff.

    By any definition all parts of Penny Arcade are small business, with low numbers of employees, low overhead a small organizational footprint.

  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    Jurg wrote: »
    So many pins.

    I've got limited clothing real estate, yo. And I'm not into collecting things for the sake of collecting.

    Never actually bought PA pins, but I've got one on my jacket (that I think would be diluted by additional pins), and FOUR on my knit hat.

    Truthfully, though? If they made The World Ends With You pins I'd probably buy all of them.

    Apocryphal:

    PAX Buttoneering started, at least partially, due to the popularity of TWEWY at the time. Pinny Arcade appears to be an "official" acknowledgement of the market that exists, in part, due to the continued trading of buttons at PAX.

    So, in an indirect way, TWEWY might have birthed Pinny Arcade.

  • dejavu,againdejavu,again Registered User regular
    Checkpoint is done by Loading Ready Run, who are pretty cool. I'm sure it'll continue on their site.

    I don't really get how cutting third party shows frees up their time, but whatevs. I'll be able to get my fix of LRR and EC elsewhere, I'm sure.

    Checkpoint isn't continuing, from what I've heard. They've still got like 6 other things running though.

    I also don't quite understand how cutting third party stuff saves anyone but the tech people a lot of time- unless they really felt the need to get involved with these other things, which I'm pretty sure they hadn't.

    Dunno though, I'm no expert. Maybe someone can explain it.

    Essee
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... What the heck are pins? <_<

    Just in case you were serious:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/pinny-arcade

    It's been kind of a thing for a handful of years now, and has a rather fervent collector's community.

    I never knew pins were a thing until a day ago, and I've been reading this site for ages.

    Glalnever diea5ehren
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    korodullin wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... What the heck are pins? <_<

    Just in case you were serious:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/pinny-arcade

    It's been kind of a thing for a handful of years now, and has a rather fervent collector's community.

    I never knew pins were a thing until a day ago, and I've been reading this site for ages.

    Like, at least a few times a month their is something about the pins on the front page? Pins are the currency of all PAXes at this point too.

    I know I spend so much more time on the forums than I do the front page, but I knew about these things years ago because they push them so hard.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • korodullinkorodullin What. SCRegistered User regular
    I read the comic and the forums, but only read the newspost every week or so. I also pay absolutely zero attention to anything PAX-related, as I can never go.

  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    korodullin wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... What the heck are pins? <_<

    Just in case you were serious:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/pinny-arcade

    It's been kind of a thing for a handful of years now, and has a rather fervent collector's community.

    I never knew pins were a thing until a day ago, and I've been reading this site for ages.

    apparently they quite often get emails and tweets just like that from people who have just discovered things like the pins or at times PAR.

    this is a point that Mike has made a few times recently in regards to people complaining about them spamming their twitter/facebook feeds and repeatedly posting the same things on the front page. there are so many people that don't know about some of the extra shit that they do and obviously a 'one and done' method of announcing this kind of stuff just doesn't work.

    LostNinjaJuliusnever diespool32shrykeEsseemcdermott
  • LostNinjaLostNinja Registered User regular
    Wraith260 wrote: »
    korodullin wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... What the heck are pins? <_<

    Just in case you were serious:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/pinny-arcade

    It's been kind of a thing for a handful of years now, and has a rather fervent collector's community.

    I never knew pins were a thing until a day ago, and I've been reading this site for ages.

    apparently they quite often get emails and tweets just like that from people who have just discovered things like the pins or at times PAR.

    this is a point that Mike has made a few times recently in regards to people complaining about them spamming their twitter/facebook feeds and repeatedly posting the same things on the front page. there are so many people that don't know about some of the extra shit that they do and obviously a 'one and done' method of announcing this kind of stuff just doesn't work.

    I never really believed him when he wrote that, but I guess this thread is proof it's true. Cool that so many people use the site so differently though.

    camo_sig2.png
    XBox Live: LostNinja05
    spool32
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    So while we're discussing big changes, how much do we have to pay to get Tube's posts rendered in not eye-searing pink?

  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    So while we're discussing big changes, how much do we have to pay to get Tube's posts rendered in not eye-searing pink?

    Someone paid to have them like that.

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    And may they continue to do well financially.

    SorceSCREECH OF THE FARGAegeriTofystedethshrykeEssee
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Ain't no one forcing you to buy pins dude.

    I would like the pig in the mug one that Graham is wearing in the checkpoint

    A.jpg
  • never dienever die Registered User regular
    Wraith260 wrote: »
    i think those involved knew exactly what they wanted PAR to be, they just weren't 100% sure how to make it happen. i think the site was still in its growing pains phase, and had it been planned as a long term investment rather than seemingly launched on a whim,then perhaps it would have been given the time to really find itself.

    perhaps if some other media outlet was willing to give it a go, or at least try something similar, we might still see that original ambition realised.

    I don't actually think PAR was doing that bad, or I don't think Tycho would have said that he was so happy and impressed with what Ben did with the site, and that Ben even exceeded his expectations. That makes me think that they were doing relatively well. As well, while I know its only my experience, my pattern for checking the website was to read the newest post, look at the comic, read a couple of articles on PAR, and then check the forums. I got most of my video game news from PAR/the forums, and enjoyed it.

    At the same time, this is Gabe and Tycho's company, and they have a different idea of how to run it. I also don't think, considering the skill of most of the people they are letting go, that they will have difficulty bouncing back. Especially considering that they are giving them a month's head's up before shutting them down completely, which is more than quite a few people I know, who just showed up to work and were told that they were not going to be open in a day/three days/week.

    So while I'm sad that I'm losing PAR, I know I can find Ben and the others at different websites and continue watching them work. At the same time, I can enjoy all the side projects that Penny-Arcade continues to work on.

  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    I'm pretty sure they gave them waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than a month heads up.

    So It GoesQuidEsseemcdermott
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    korodullin wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... What the heck are pins? <_<

    Just in case you were serious:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/pinny-arcade

    It's been kind of a thing for a handful of years now, and has a rather fervent collector's community.

    I never knew pins were a thing until a day ago, and I've been reading this site for ages.

    Like, at least a few times a month their is something about the pins on the front page? Pins are the currency of all PAXes at this point too.

    I know I spend so much more time on the forums than I do the front page, but I knew about these things years ago because they push them so hard.

    I haven't read the front page regularly in over 4 years now. Never been to PAX, either. I didn't hear about pins until I read this page, literally 5 minutes ago.

    TubularLuggage
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    Tube wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure they gave them waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than a month heads up.

    Tube you obviously work for the Legion of doom and dont know it. I mean mike and Jerry are clearly Lex luthor and Joker. Dont you read tumblr?

    King Riptor on
    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
  • FatedToPretendFatedToPretend Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    From what I heard from Quinns (a long time ago now), the guys at SUSD got a small amount of money for each of the shows that appeared on PATV (this was back in the days of 45 minute episodes, and it was nowhere near enough to be self-funding).
    I would assume that the guys from Loading Ready Run also got an amount of money - whether advertising share, or they were paid a sum of money for each episode.

    I would imagine that PATV is being cut not because it was too much effort, or too far off message, but simply because it wasn't profitable

    EDIT: Graham posted over on loadingreadyrun.com and it looks like the 3rd party content was hosted on an ad-revenue share basis. Not sure where I stand on my previous thoughts, because I'm not sure how it can be anything less than profitable for PA (hosting on YouTube, minimal effort to update the PATV site) but I do think it's a damn shame

    FatedToPretend on
    steam_sig.png
  • I'm actually surprised by how little people seem to be chatting about the changes. Then again I don't visit the forums regularly so I have little knowledge of what's considered chat-worthy here.

    I'm excited to see what comes out of all this. The comic is what brings me to their site first and foremost. I started browsing the site religiously a little over a year ago, and Strip Search really got me hooked. I did watch the Extra Credits and Check Point on occasion and I at least browsed PAR daily. PAR felt like it was running out of steam the past few months so I'm not really surprised it's getting cut. I'm also not surprised that some kind of big organization change was on the way. I felt like there had been some things going on behind the scenes for a while now.

    I like what they are doing with Pinny Arcade, but I don't see myself getting into collector mode any time soon. So long as PAX and Child's Play aren't adversely affected (and they shouldn't be) I'm pretty happy with the changes. Looking forward to see what else they have up their sleeves.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    korodullin wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    ... What the heck are pins? <_<

    Just in case you were serious:

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/pinny-arcade

    It's been kind of a thing for a handful of years now, and has a rather fervent collector's community.

    I never knew pins were a thing until a day ago, and I've been reading this site for ages.

    This is the best proof for why marketing messages need to be repeated over and over and over.

    Wraith260Dark Raven Xnever dieLostNinjaDeebasershryke
  • AegeriAegeri Plateau of LengRegistered User regular
    I was going to buy the physical special edition of Killer Instict solely for the pins even though I have no plans for buying an xbone...

    The Roleplayer's Guild: My blog for roleplaying games, advice and adventuring.
    Quid
  • SurikoSuriko AustraliaRegistered User regular
    I found that pins were a Thing when I tried to buy one as a souvenir from PAX Aus, only to find that they were sold out.

    And then resold on ebay for half a thousand dollars. :|

    Brainleech
  • 3lwap03lwap0 Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    Given the language used by both the guys at LRR, and Jerry - the move to cancel PAR and the 3rd party content was one of purely personal desire, and not financial burden to PA. Sometimes there is simply a split of desires, and different directions are chosen.

    It still hurts sympathetically, and i'm not even directly affected. I'm not 'being let go'. No one is coming to cancel my job 'because it's not where we want to go as an empire'. Deep down, brave faces and all, it has to hurt the folks at PAR - more so since this is during the holidays, and it's got to hurt on both sides of that coin. And having enjoyed a year of brutal job instability, maybe I'm feeling this a lot harder than your average forum reader. It's positively Pavlovian. At some point you give fuck all about creative differences, and worry more about paying your mortgage, and making sure your family is being provided for. Even though I only know the LRR and PAR guys via their work, I hope they'll be okay financially.


    This also makes me think of other facets of PA that I've become somewhat emotionally attached too. What if Mike and Jerry decided to shut down the forums? It would be their right and purview - this is their sandbox we're all graciously allowed to play in. It sure as hell doesn't generate direct revenue for Penny Arcade (in a traditional sense). If anything, it's a burden they financially shoulder (developer, bandwidth, and hosting costs).

    Much like PAR going away, one day it will happen, or could happen. This community that's become a part of my life for the last 8 years would go away, and I'd certainly be lessened. It's a possibility I don't like to dwell on.

    On the bright side, all these lame mods would go away though. (I kid, I kid. < 3 you guys. Except @Irond Will. That guy's a jerk ;) ).

    3lwap0 on
    I think Pringles original intention was to make tennis balls... but on the day the rubber was supposed to show up a truckload of potatoes came. Pringles is a laid-back company, so they just said, "Fuck it, cut em up!".
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