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Hey, I'm looking for help on making a personal decision on insurance.

Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Not on Any Podcast or AffliatedDon't Even Own a MikeRegistered User regular
edited December 2013 in Help / Advice Forum
Hey guys, I work at a small (micro) family business, in the states, and my folks are looking to join an exchange and drop our existing coverage.

It'll save them money, but I've done the math, and I'm basically looking at whether I should just pay the tax (got no problem with taxes) and save $2.1k a year, or go ahead and pay $2.8k for minimum insurance. I'm using numbers assuming that I will pay the maximum income percentage for each year.

Is it worth spending $2.1k every year, if I'm young & healthy, and basically have never actually used the healthcare system outside of dental and an annual checkup? If I never need a doctor in the next three years, and have the same income, I'm looking at saving $6.8K, for age 23.5 - age 26.5. That's assuming premiums don't increase, in which case I could save even more.

Honestly, If my income changes, this will be moot because it probably means my employment situation has changed, meaning I'm making considerably less, have more affordable employer options, or am making enough that $3K for insurance ain't no thing.

How many dudes needed over $6.8K in medical bills during year 23.5-26.5? How many dudes needed over $12.8K in medical bills during year 23.5-30? That's just in premiums, considering insurance only covers percentages of costs.

The way I see it, if I have less income, or grow older, I will get more affordable coverage, as long as they don't remove the existing subsidies.

I could save around $13K +/- by simply waiting till my 30s, when I expect my body to start failing a wee bit more.

I don't smoke, rarely drink. I don't have any weird bones, muscles, or organs. (well I got some extra wisdom teeth) Anyone know the statistics on young responsible adults using healthcare?
I'm not really interested in the politics of this. I just see the concept of health insurance as a bet against an insurance company, and I want to make mine an informed one.

I realize I could be not accounting for something, so I appreciate any info that I'm overlooking, or in general what ya'll think I should do, Thanks for being kind & rad.

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Virgil_Leads_You on
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Posts

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    All you have to do is slip, fall, and break your collarbone to end up way more in the hole than you'd have been with the insurance. So it's not like this is guaranteed savings. The way I see it, insurance is to make sure random shit doesn't financially ruin you, and some sort of surprise issue would do a fine job financially ruining you if the nice people at the hospital have to get your gallbladder out of there or whatever. Unless you have something really important to do with that money, playing it safe seems like the safest option.

    Virgil_Leads_YoualltheoliveDaenrisEsseeAiouaSCREECH OF THE FARGMulysaSempronius
  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    There might be an Actuary among the forumers somewhere who could tell you the actual statistics, but your probably going to be fine until 30. But your weighing that against some random accident, or illness coming along and ruining you financialy. And gambling with your future never seems like a good idea to me if you dont have to.

    Steam Profile: FoomyFooms
    Virgil_Leads_YouEssee
  • Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Not on Any Podcast or Affliated Don't Even Own a MikeRegistered User regular
    I'm going to be asking older cousins and brothers, if they needed insurance in their 20s and I might be surprised what I find. I don't have a degree, and so I could see that 13k, plus my savings to allow me to get a 4 year degree without taking on debt, if I decide to pursue one.

    Something to think about though, I need to watch where I step either way. I'm appreciating the input.

    VayBJ4e.png
  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu ___________PIGEON _________San Diego, CA Registered User regular
    When you ask people who aren't in their 20s if they needed insurance in their 20s, they have the benefit of having lived through their 20s already. With hindsight you can always decide whether you need the insurance or not. From the perspective of someone who can't predict the future, though, you have to account for possible situations where you do need the insurance even if there are people for whom those situations did not occur. You don't know (yet) whether you're one of those people and you won't know until you're past your 20s.

    L Ron HowardDaenrisEsseeSCREECH OF THE FARGkaliyamajjae2123mysticjuicer
  • GdiguyGdiguy San Diego, CARegistered User regular
    edited December 2013
    Like @TychoCelchuuu says, the problem is that at that age you're really paying for catastrophe insurance. So you'll use nothing (or very little) most of the time, but if you slice a finger cooking or break an ankle playing softball (both things I did in that age range), you could be looking at multiple-thousand $ bills easily between a doctor visit, x-rays/stitches, etc. Obviously something like cancer/etc is always a low possibility, but avoiding going bankrupt for stuff that you can't control (someone hit & run's you on your bike, that kind of thing) are the biggest things you're protecting yourself against.

    That cost is about what I seem to recall paying for a low-end health insurance at that age a few years back that probably had similar coverage (high deductible, low amount of basic checkup-type stuff, but covered major emergencies), but it really comes down to how much risk you enjoy absorbing. For me, it wasn't worth it to save a relatively small amount of money in the grand scheme of things... if I was on the border of starving or something, it might be a different decision

    Gdiguy on
    Virgil_Leads_YouEssee
  • Mad JazzMad Jazz Registered User regular
    As someone who works in health care, yes, you should get insurance. Not only is it impossible to predict when you'll need it, but if you need it and don't have it, it'll be too late to get it leaving you in a hole you may never get out of. Also, the more healthy people sign up, the less it will cost for everyone.

    As far as making an informed bet, there's a lot of stuff that can go wrong as far as health is concerned. People tend to underestimate their own risk levels, and, perhaps more importantly, to vastly underestimate the detrimental effects of having some adverse health event (financially, physically, mentally, etc.).

    camo_sig2.png
    kaliyama
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Have you had your appendix out yet? That could go any time, and isn't cheap without insurance (not to mention it's a time-sensitive thing). Play any sports? Musculoskeletal injuries cost a bunch of money too. You're also at the point in your life where random shit starts to happen to your body that will be with you for the rest of your life. During that period, I had my first battle with Labyrinthitis, as well as an endoscopy for stomach issues and a couple of other things. Insurance is a good thing to have for no other reason than you have no reason to put off going to the doctor. Doing preventative visits and care help keep your costs down over your lifetime.

    Arson WellesWhacktosecabsy
  • CauldCauld Registered User regular
    I've almost never needed healthcare my whole life, but that didn't stop a routine physical from turning up a pretty serious tumor I needed to get removed from my neck. The only reason I even got the physical was because they're free with most insurance.

    If you're asking yourself if $700 is worth the perhaps 5% chance you'll save $100,000 or more (both made up numbers), it seems like pretty simple math to me. Plus assuming you didn't get health insurance, at what point do you start? What day do you sit down and decide to start paying for it? I hope it's not the day you need it, I guess is my point.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    @Virgil_Leads_You

    Question 1: Have you gone through and calculated your subsidies and all that jazz? The number doesn't look like it's crazy with subsidies but that really varies depending on where in the country you are.

    Would you take this bet:
    If the cubs don't win the World Series in the next four years I'll give you $7,000.
    If they do you give me $100,000.

    Outside hedging bets and bankruptcy can't be used to offset your risk of paying me $100k.

    Now, keep in mind that if they win a bunch of Cubs fans will be punching you in the face, making you feel like shit and generally making your life hell as you try and repay me that $100k. Because you didn't pay that $7k the professionals aren't really that interested in helping you. Oh, they might stop somebody from punching you to death right now but they'll just tell the rabid cub fan to go down the block, make sure you stop bleeding and then send you down the block too.

    See if you can decode my sneaky metaphor.
    Additionally I'm 33 and am on medication that runs 25k a year. At 32 I was perfectly healthy and had no signs whatsoever of the condition that requires this for me to not be in constant pain. Sure I'm a bit older than you but the condition isn't linked to age, or heredity or infectious vectors. Sometimes you just get lucky.

    Edit: Oh, and you want to clarify your employment situation a bit more? If you were previously getting insurance from work you should talk about that lost income with your work.

    Edit2: So that 2.8k....is that the cost to add you to your parents plan since you're under 26 or the cost for you to get your own insurance policy with subsidies provided by the Federal government?

    DevoutlyApathetic on
    Essee
  • ThundyrkatzThundyrkatz Registered User regular
    Best case scenario, you are right and you saved yourself a tidy sum of cash! Yay you!

    The same philosophy applies to any insurance really, why buy home owners, renters or car insurance? if you don't use it that was wasted cash right?

    Here is a little story...

    I made it through my 20's no problem without ever seeing a doctor, and all was well. However 1 day I started having some pain in my abdomen, and had to go to the hospital. This was over new years eve when apparently doctors do not work, and I ended up being admitted and held for a week, on IV with no food or water, before they removed my gall bladder. Later, I got "accidentally" sent a bill for over 50k, which was only part of the total cost. Had I not been insured, i would have been RUINED!

    you see hospitals play this game of cat and mouse with the insurance agencies. The agency uses its clout to negotiate reduced rates on all things, the hospital then raises their rates to make up the difference

    Ex.
    Procedure A costs the hospital $100, the agency negotiates a rate of 50% for they procedure, so the hospital starts charging $200 instead. This is fine (its not fine), unless you are not able to get the negotiated rate. You are uninsured, and you get the full bill, and your finances are screwed.

    Oh, and the "accidental billing" hospitals like to do that to see if you will "accidentally" pay it.

  • Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Not on Any Podcast or Affliated Don't Even Own a MikeRegistered User regular
    I'm not eligible for substantive subsidies at the moment, which is fine. My folks are, but adding myself to the plan would kill theirs, so that 2.8K is the annual premium cost individually. I'm cool with this, as good affordable insurance is something they need.
    I'm not involved with sports or running, so my risk is small on that front.
    I haven't had my appendix taken out. Having some critrical emergency thing like that gallbladder that was mentioned, would be the reason I'd get insurance for the next three years.

    I sorta feel like if I did find out I had some strange condition, I could just get insured then, seeing how they can't decline those with pre-existing conditions. obviously can't do that if I'm unconscious or in terrible pain.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    You really don't make between 15k and 45k?

    At one end you might be eligible for medicaid (depending on state) and the other end the amount of cash for safety is less significant, especially counting lost time because of illness.
    I sorta feel like if I did find out I had some strange condition, I could just get insured then, seeing how they can't decline those with pre-existing conditions. obviously can't do that if I'm unconscious or in terrible pain.

    You can only buy insurance during open enrollment. Get very sick a week after it ends and you are just as fucked. Nevermind the cost of finding out just how sick you are. ("Life changing" events can trigger new enrollment periods but "I got sick" is not on the list.)

    DevoutlyApathetic on
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    Here's the thing, Virgil, Health Insurance isn't just about Cancer, heart failure, or any of the other big diseases we think of. Its also about the little things. For instance, lets say you get the Flu. The Flu turns into ammonia because you think you can deal with it on your own. Then you get hospitalized for three days because the ammonia has blocked your lungs and you can no longer breath, let alone eat or drink anything. All of a sudden, you're looking at a $20,000 bill that health insurance will not cover (you can sign up and have them cover future issues, but they won't pay for procedures and hospitalizations that happened before you had insurance).

    You can skip health insurance, but even before the taxes I always suggested people get it. I say this as someone who made it from 19 to 31 without ever needing major health care. Insurance is never about protecting you right now. Its about protecting yourself in case the worst happens, and it WILL happen. Some people its health, others car, and still others its home. But eventually, everyone needs insurance to take care of them, and you don't want to be the one with the bad draw.

    EDIT: I used the Flu example because it almost happened to me last year. I just barely managed to stay out of the hospital, but it was a close thing (as in the doctor told me that I WOULD be back in his office in two days and if I was not better he was going to admit me to the Hospital).

    AspectVoid on
    PSN|AspectVoid
  • Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Not on Any Podcast or Affliated Don't Even Own a MikeRegistered User regular
    edited December 2013
    Yeah, I get that, but I could also see myself waiting half a year to deal with any pains bugging me. Which is probably what I'd do even with insurance.

    Obviously, if my body suddenly turns into a vessel of pure hate and pain without warning, then having insurance would have been a good option. I'm interested in what people think is the amount of risk in that happening in the next 3 years.

    As for checkups, there's near-free annual, thorough checkups and x-rays, offered in clinics and at several medical centers that I always try to take advantage of.

    Virgil_Leads_You on
    VayBJ4e.png
  • ThundyrkatzThundyrkatz Registered User regular
    I think ultimately, no one here will tell you that not being insured is "a good idea"

    You can roll the dice if you wish, but the idea of potential financial ruin seems like a pretty high wager. Especially at the cost of $54/week

    CogDeebaserEsseeQuid
  • EggyToastEggyToast Registered User regular
    Insurance for houses protects, usually, against wear and tear and Acts of Nature. It's usually cheap because acts of nature don't hit that frequently.

    Insurance for cars protects against other drivers, generally.

    Insurance for your health protects against all of the above -- wear & tear, acts of nature, other people. And then some, as insurance also helps for minor things like bad allergies, muscle pain, and so on. If you're looking at it in terms of investment, the tax is the worst choice since you're pissing away $2100 on NOTHING.

    If you pay a little more you get a safety net that protects you from financial ruin on the chance something happens to your body. Your body is the only example in all of existence. Your friends and relatives will have a wide range of experiences, and in general most people do not visit the doctor in their 20s. If you're looking for anecdotes, though, you'll likely find plenty where someone didn't find anything serious, but something still pretty dang important.

    I have a friend who was diagnosed with diabetes when he was 22, so it's good he had insurance. I haven't had any serious health problems but I did end up having pretty terrible back pain in my sleep that I was able to go see a doc and get physical therapy, which was covered by insurance. I was also able to get a prescription to Flonase which has eliminated all of my allergies. My mom has a friend whose son discovered testicular cancer at age 28. One friend of mine fell off his bicycle when a dumbass walked in front of him and he swerved out of the way, ending up in the hospital for a day. Another friend of mine slipped on some ice and busted her wrist.

    Yes, if you pay $2.8k you end up with something a little abstract -- a safety net and the ability to go see a doctor for most anything without worrying about the cost. But for $2.1k you get shit all. What's worse, if you don't pay the $2.8k for something, you HAVE to pay the $2.1k and get nothing at all.

    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
    Essee
  • L Ron HowardL Ron Howard Registered User regular
    Cautionary tale and anecdote time.
    I had a coworker who did not have insurance. Years ago when you could opt out of insurance and just save the money. I don't know what happened, but I know something did and it ruined him, both physically and financially. I'm sure he's still paying for it now, but from what I understand he was easily making more than I was, and he was living off of ramen.
    If you want to risk the rest of your life, again physically and financially, then go for it.

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Also, while they can no longer deny for pre-existing conditions, they can jack the hell out of your rates.

    "Oh, you have this disease? Well, it's 10k a year for you" - whereas if you have insurance and things are diagnosed while insured, the rises are more metered, as there's generally limits on how much you can jack someones rate in a year.

    kaliyama
  • streeverstreever Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    I feel like you are pretty committed to not getting insurance; you've gotten a lot of feedback, but you're still asking for a 'level of risk'. The reality is there is no actual prediction for you as an individual.

    Sure, we can find average demographic numbers for 20-something males, but that isn't very meaningful. The issue is YOUR personal level of risk, which no one knows.

    I was an incredibly healthy and risk-averse 20 something who went face-first through a car window, in a moment that was uncharacteristic of me, that I never ever would have predicted. Over 120k later, I wish I'd been insured. Demographically, I was probably in the lowest possible chance for the costs I ended up with, but it didn't matter--it happened to me despite the average chance.

    My wife was a healthy and risk-averse 20 something who got a simple viral infection which seemed to be appendix pains, and persisted and got worse, long enough for us to go to the ER. That, and the fall-out of that, came to 9,000. She was fully insured--looking at similar treatments for the uninsured, she would have been charged about $45,000 if she didn't have insurance.

    Remember the no-insurance penalty; hospitals will charge you double to ten times as much as someone with insurance, right up front. Sure, you can try and negotiate, but that didn't go well for me and my lawyer.

    Get the insurance. You *definitely* qualify for medicare if you're close to 15k. If you're making 45k, you should get a nice subsidy.

    I know you aren't interested in the politics, so please understand that I'm *not* making a political statement when I encourage you to look at this as more than just health insurance.
    This is part of being in a society--in a community--where we all do the best we can to take care of each other, above and beyond just taking care of ourselves. Maybe that doesn't matter/do anything for you, but it is a perspective I didn't use to have that I gained over time, and I think it is important to share it and encourage others to look at health insurance as more than a "me" thing. By opting in, by getting regular physicals and using your insurance, you're actually improving the lives of other people, and that does matter.

    It may not matter to you right now, and no judgement if it doesn't--it didn't matter to me for most of my life. Between my own near-death experience and hospital costs and just an evolution in my mindset, it means a lot to me, and I just wanted to share that perspective.

    streever on
    TychoCelchuuuVirgil_Leads_YouDivideByZerocabsy
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Should you buy the insurance? Yes
    Does it suck that ACA is driving up rates on the young/healthy/employed to subsidize everyone else? Yep
    Just remember this the next time you have some Oreos and milk, you'll know how the cow feels.


    I was on a high deductible(like 6k) plan 26/m/healthy/No Smoke for like $110 a month until I got married in June-checking the exchange now its 165. Given that its only $35 on top to go 'bronze plan' I would probably be making that choice now.

    Also, if your estimating your going to be paying a 700/year penalty, that means you are pulling down 70k? Yeah get some kind of insurance, because you are making enough that they will actually bother coming after you for bills. I'd also suggest you look into an HSA. It's tax exempt savings you can only use on health care expenses(not premiums)-and HC is pretty broad, for example LASIC counts, as does chiropractor and acupuncture. It can also be invested and at 65 when you become medicare eligible the 'medical expenses' restriction goes away and its treated more or less just like a second IRA.

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    To be fair, a lot of raises due to "obamacare" were increases that were planned anyhow, they just know they can get away with blaming it on that. In addition, a lot of plans with hidden lifetime maximums are now banned, which is why some plans were strangely low (Oh hey, we've spent 100k on you and you're in the hospital, that sucks and btw you're dropped).

    Esseekaliyamatapeslingercabsy
  • DjeetDjeet Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    You only seem to be discounting discovery of some condition like cancer or an autoimmune disorder. If you get hit by a bus, then once the hospital determines you aren't insured your ass is going to be tossed after they stabilize you, and you're still on the hook for massive emergency room bills.

    To share an anecdote, a few years back I caught an uncommon illness (most likely vector was fleas from the outdoor cat). With respect to the experience there were times of delirium, my parents came to take care of me, and I thought I was going to die. I missed 2 weeks of work and had a week long hospital stay. The normal hospital bill would've been $40K. I ended up paying $4000-4500 net of meds and post-discharge treatments. While I contracted it in my 30's I certainly could've in my 20's.

    Edit: Up until the infection I saw health insurance as a drag on my income cause for 7-8 years I'm paying for it and it paid out what, maybe a tetanus shot, and some eyedrops for pink eye? And then bam, I'm hit with an expense that would've crippled my financial situation for years, and more than makes up for those years when I had no claims at all.

    Djeet on
    Virgil_Leads_You
  • CogCog Registered User regular
    I'm interested in what people think is the amount of risk in that happening in the next 3 years.

    No one here can remotely do that with any more reliability than a magic 8 ball or tea leaves, and it would honestly be recklessly irresponsible for any of us to actually try.
    I think ultimately, no one here will tell you that not being insured is "a good idea"

    Absolutely this.

    TychoCelchuuukaliyama
  • EntriechEntriech Registered User regular
    You should probably take the insurance. Just one stupid thing can ruin you financially. I've got an anecdote too, of course. My wife was too poor to afford health insurance, but not poor enough to merit insurance from her state gov. She got gallstones, which intensified into pancreatitis because when you don't have any insurance, you hold off going to the doctor as long as possible. An emergency hospital stay later, she was minus one gallbladder, and plus about 40k dollars worth of debt. She was fortunate in that in her situation declaring bankruptcy was the correct decision to make, and it was prior to us getting married, so the credit implications of that decision were greatly reduced.

    If it helps, try to view buying into the exchanges as a way of contributing to the common good of society, a bit like paying into social security. Because of the coverage you're purchasing and not using, a passel of difficult to insure people who need that care will be able to afford it. Insurance after all is just socialized risk mitigation. Also you might be surprised at the preventative measures your insurance plan might offer you. Definitely look into the fine print and see what's on offer in terms of physicals, etc.

    Gamecenter/Gamertag/Steam ID/PSN: Entriech
    Guild Wars 2: Entriech.3507 | Scythe Gearsnap, Phlork, Irenic
    Virgil_Leads_You
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    schuss wrote: »
    Also, while they can no longer deny for pre-existing conditions, they can jack the hell out of your rates.

    "Oh, you have this disease? Well, it's 10k a year for you" - whereas if you have insurance and things are diagnosed while insured, the rises are more metered, as there's generally limits on how much you can jack someones rate in a year.

    No.
    Starting in 2014, being sick won't keep you from getting health coverage. An insurance company can't turn you down or charge you more because of your condition.

    IIRC the only price adjustments allowed are on smoker status, age and geographic location. Not positive about this as I am the above.

    DevoutlyApathetic on
    Julius
  • alltheolivealltheolive Registered User regular
    A brief survey of expensive medical things people I know have been blindsided by in their 20's:

    - New severe allergies, requiring specialist referrals
    - Unbearable skin rash for no obvious reason, requiring specialist referrals
    - Appendicitis
    - Bike accidents of varying severity, but even a casual tumble gets you a couple hundred dollars in doctors' attention and tetanus shots
    - Got paint in eye, needed a nurse to flush it out and check for damage
    - Hand got stepped on, breaking a bone and causing nerve damage, requiring extended treatment
    - Punched a wall, breaking hand, requiring surgery (well, okay. you can probably avoid this.)
    - Fell off a bridge while walking on the wall because that's fun. Broke back, requiring emergency specialist surgery
    - Lady problems, all sorts
    - Broke wrist rollerblading
    - Put elbow through a window crawling into own home, required ambulance ride and stiches
    - Long-term knee dysfunction from sports, requiring specialist referrals
    - Kidney infection requiring hospitalization
    - Cut finger cooking, got infected
    - Staph infection on skin, no special reason, requiring antibiotics
    - Fell down and bit tongue, got infected, swelled up until they couldn't swallow, requiring antibiotics
    - Developed chronic fatigue syndrome, couldn't walk up stairs anymore, specialist referrals for the rest of life
    - Needed implantable defibrilator implanted for pre-existing condition
    - Needed eye surgery for pre-existing condition
    - Developed irritable bowel syndrome
    - Severe mono requiring steroids to get back to work
    - Got whooping cough while home for Christmas, forcing family to decide whether it was a good financial investment to bring them to the hospital with a temperature of 104 and no insurance
    - Threw out back. Sweet, sweet painkillers can be authorized much faster if you have a GP
    - Broke jaw on vacation, doctors in Thailand repaired it wrong, had to be reset at home, jaw wired shut, etc
    - Rheumatoid arthritis
    - Bipolar disorder
    - Multiple sclerosis

    It's a tenuous existence without insurance. On average healthy young people do take a loss on insurance, and pay more than they use (that's... sort of the idea? On average, everyone combined slightly loses money, otherwise it wouldn't be a business, and young healthy people in particular lose the most). But you get peace of mind and insulate your future and your family from a tremendous money suck.

    EsseeTychoCelchuuuVirgil_Leads_You
  • MaguanoMaguano Registered User regular
    nobody really wants to pay for insurance...until they actually need it.

    steam:maguano2
    gamertag:Maguano71
    3ds 2853-1334-6215
    TychoCelchuuukaliyama
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    you want minimum insurance

    signed, someone who had a 25k appendix bill at age 19 and had to pay the full amount in cash


    Obamacare's health exchange rates are a raw ass deal for young people who don't have any other options. That's pretty much the plan. But you're better off with it than without.

    Essee
  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    Yeah, I get that, but I could also see myself waiting half a year to deal with any pains bugging me. Which is probably what I'd do even with insurance.

    Obviously, if my body suddenly turns into a vessel of pure hate and pain without warning, then having insurance would have been a good option. I'm interested in what people think is the amount of risk in that happening in the next 3 years.

    As for checkups, there's near-free annual, thorough checkups and x-rays, offered in clinics and at several medical centers that I always try to take advantage of.

    It seems to me that you have made up your mind and are just looking for people to tell you that what you're doing isn't stupid and irresponsible.

    I'm not going to do that.

    Also, you have missed all the posts about people relating how it's not just diseases you have to keep in mind, but also 'small' accidents that will end up costing you $$$ to get taken care of.

    I just read an article the other day about how getting some stitches done is one of the most common and expensive procedures hospitals do nowadays. Someone had three stitches done on their finger and it cost them about 3k.

    EsseeTychoCelchuuuDeebaserkaliyama
  • SerpentSerpent Sometimes Vancouver, BC, sometimes Brisbane, QLDRegistered User regular
    You are playing the lottery but in reverse.

    This is a dumb idea

    Lottery: Pay a small amount to have a chance of saving a large amount
    Insurance: Save a small amount to have a chance of losing a huge amount

    You can make up the 6.8k you would save over your lifetime. You may not be able to make up the huge dollars you may lose.

    EsseeDeebaser
  • PirusuPirusu Pierce Registered User regular
    I'm 26 and had a heart attack earlier this year. My cardiologist basically said that even with an awful diet (which I admittedly had) I should not have had a heart attack that young. If I didn't have insurance, my hospital stay would have cost $180,000. I don't even want to think about what my medication would have cost.

    You're in your 20s, but you aren't invincible.

    Virgil_Leads_You
  • Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Not on Any Podcast or Affliated Don't Even Own a MikeRegistered User regular
    I was hoping there was some common knowledge on numbers, that I was missing in terms of information on risk.
    Like, I could see someone dropping hard data that would make me think, "man I should probably get insured".

    VayBJ4e.png
  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    I was hoping there was some common knowledge on numbers, that I was missing in terms of information on risk.
    Like, I could see someone dropping hard data that would make me think, "man I should probably get insured".

    I know 6K sounds like a lot of money right now, but it's not worth it.


    noir_blood on
    zagdrob
  • Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Not on Any Podcast or Affliated Don't Even Own a MikeRegistered User regular
    Hey man, It's not cool to be insulting. I'm sorry if this is a touchy subject for ya, or if you were expecting something else from me.

    VayBJ4e.png
  • PirusuPirusu Pierce Registered User regular
    There are numerous papers on the subject if you Google insurance statistics for young adults. Here's a paper. The questions you seem to want answered are addressed on Page 7 and beyond.

    Virgil_Leads_Youalltheolive
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    It's not about dollars, it's about risk mitigation. The chance my house burns down is extremely low, but am I a fool for having insurance on it? No, because if my house did burn down I'd be absolutely fucked.

    It's the same thing with health insurance. Is there a chance you will get sick? Yes, absolutely. (More likely than your house burning down, to be sure, why do you think the premiums are so high?) If you get sick, are you totally fucked? Yes, you are.

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
    PirusuDeebaserTychoCelchuuuEssee
  • Mad JazzMad Jazz Registered User regular
    That paper Pirusu linked to seems to be what you're interested in, but again, that only covers a very small (admittedly common) set of things that can go wrong. Medicine is a big, wide world, and there's a lot that can ruin you in a multitude of ways. There is absolutely no good reason to not have health insurance.

    camo_sig2.png
    Virgil_Leads_YouPirusuL Ron HowardEssee
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    If you have to enter a hospital in three years, you will be out at least $12,000. Not getting insurance to save up to $6,000 over three years is an unfathomably bad idea.

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2013
    Also, $175 a month is a great deal for insurance. I assume you're getting subsidies, then? I pay more than that even after all my employee contributions, and my insurance plan isn't even that good.

    EDIT: oops wrong numbers. $230 is still reasonable.

    Aioua on
    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • Virgil_Leads_YouVirgil_Leads_You Not on Any Podcast or Affliated Don't Even Own a MikeRegistered User regular
    Should you buy the insurance? Yes
    Does it suck that ACA is driving up rates on the young/healthy/employed to subsidize everyone else? Yep
    Just remember this the next time you have some Oreos and milk, you'll know how the cow feels.


    I was on a high deductible(like 6k) plan 26/m/healthy/No Smoke for like $110 a month until I got married in June-checking the exchange now its 165. Given that its only $35 on top to go 'bronze plan' I would probably be making that choice now.

    Also, if your estimating your going to be paying a 700/year penalty, that means you are pulling down 70k? Yeah get some kind of insurance, because you are making enough that they will actually bother coming after you for bills. I'd also suggest you look into an HSA. It's tax exempt savings you can only use on health care expenses(not premiums)-and HC is pretty broad, for example LASIC counts, as does chiropractor and acupuncture. It can also be invested and at 65 when you become medicare eligible the 'medical expenses' restriction goes away and its treated more or less just like a second IRA.

    I was accounting for it hitting 1% 2% 2.5% income, and then staying at that 2.5%

    VayBJ4e.png
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