AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
edited January 2014
Whew, Arena is certainly more for people who've a keen grasp of what is going on. I've been winning, but it has absolutely been do to blind luck as opposed to any sort of grand stratagem.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I think, for example, that in a lot of circumstances using the coin well is very hard. My winrate is 67% going first and under 60% with the coin, admittedly over a sample of only 120 games.
going first is better in game and always has been no matter what people in the thread say :bz
I dunno, coining into Defias Ringleader on turn 1 is hard to argue against. Even more so if you have a great starting curve.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Everywhere I read, people say it should be possible to get 5-7 wins on average and the 0-1 win run should be rare.
I feel like I understand value when drafting and I generally have a good curve when its said and done. But out of the 6 runs I have made in the arena, I've gone 1,2,3,7,0,3,1. I must be doing something wrong and I am looking for advice. What's the best recording software out there? Keep in mind I am very nervous about the security of recording software in general.
Since I began recording a week ago, I've averaged over 5 wins an arena, and I /know/ I give away a game a run on misplays. I also think that I'm really only good at drafting warlock and druid, and maybe mage and paladin, and I think I could substantially improve my drafting even in my strongest classes.
I think, for example, that in a lot of circumstances using the coin well is very hard. My winrate is 67% going first and under 60% with the coin, admittedly over a sample of only 120 games.
I think what is really happening is that the game looks simpler than it is.
EDIT: my bet, Obi, given other exchanges with you I've had, is that if you keep up with your quests and play a substantial amount, you will be noticeably better in even a couple weeks.
But I want to get better faster. Someone recommend a solid and safe software to record my draft and games. Then I will upload it and you guys can tell me what I am doing wrong.
Everywhere I read, people say it should be possible to get 5-7 wins on average and the 0-1 win run should be rare.
I feel like I understand value when drafting and I generally have a good curve when its said and done. But out of the 6 runs I have made in the arena, I've gone 1,2,3,7,0,3,1. I must be doing something wrong and I am looking for advice. What's the best recording software out there? Keep in mind I am very nervous about the security of recording software in general.
Since I began recording a week ago, I've averaged over 5 wins an arena, and I /know/ I give away a game a run on misplays. I also think that I'm really only good at drafting warlock and druid, and maybe mage and paladin, and I think I could substantially improve my drafting even in my strongest classes.
I think, for example, that in a lot of circumstances using the coin well is very hard. My winrate is 67% going first and under 60% with the coin, admittedly over a sample of only 120 games.
I think what is really happening is that the game looks simpler than it is.
EDIT: my bet, Obi, given other exchanges with you I've had, is that if you keep up with your quests and play a substantial amount, you will be noticeably better in even a couple weeks.
But I want to get better faster. Someone recommend a solid and safe software to record my draft and games. Then I will upload it and you guys can tell me what I am doing wrong.
Btw, Obi, I will be happy to watch and comment on your drafts, but based on purely on results, I'm pretty sure Blue is a better drafter and player than I am.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
^ aw shucks
Not sure if I'm quite at 7 average because I don't keep track - if I had to guess I probably average like 6.5, slightly lower than break0even but can usually make gold by doing quests through arena
I'm 8/2 right now, and the amount of times my opponent has had 7 mana, six cards in hand, and had absolutely nothing playable just astonishes me. I'm either absurdly lucky or these people are just batshit crazy, because it feels like a druid with should probably have drawn something better than 4 armor and a shitty minion that heals 3 by turn 7 of a windmill deck.
^ aw shucks
Not sure if I'm quite at 7 average because I don't keep track - if I had to guess I probably average like 6.5, slightly lower than break0even but can usually make gold by doing quests through arena
Is 7 still the break even point? I do recall last time I got 7, I got exactly 150 gold in a bag, and when I pass 7 is when I start getting 2 gold bags... usually 1 big (150-250) and 1 small (25-75), which seems to support it.
Welp, went 9/3 in my first Arena run, then bought four packs and got some OK cards. I was screwed pretty hard by a combination of incompetency (I had the 2 attack the 1 and the 1 attack the 2 in a suicidal board clear), then bad luck (dropped a mad bomber to try to luck it out, hit me and killed my charge boar before it had attacked).
RNGesus, at least. A couple wins were from pretty much perfect bombers, and a hunter deck full of low HP crap good at trading up seemed to be doing well.
Also I didn't have a single 3 mana killshot that didn't kill exactly what I needed.
EDIT: Also, two of my victories were dudes resigning with tons more cards in hand than me because I had a modestly threatening ghoul/QA out with nothing else. Seemed kinda odd.
Assuming you've played other card games in this vein it's a pretty simple game to pick up. Mana curves, card advantage, board control are pretty core card game concepts. So, if you understand those you can go pretty far right now, I imagine.
RNGesus, at least. A couple wins were from pretty much perfect bombers, and a hunter deck full of low HP crap good at trading up seemed to be doing well.
Also I didn't have a single 3 mana killshot that didn't kill exactly what I needed.
Was this that hunter deck with no lategame from a page or two back? That sounded like a pretty awesome arena deck to me.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
Yeah, it was my deck with nothing late. The only problem I felt was that a lot of my early stuff was worthless, but people seemed to care a lot about eliminating mad bombers after battlecry, or the 2/1 that hurts the hero on deathrattle.
EDIT: Yeah, also, having played a game that's similar to this semi-competitively, except you always had all 20 of your decks "cards" in your hand (with 5 mana types), there's really not a ton of meaningful decisions besides risking randomness or not.
Assuming you've played other card games in this vein it's a pretty simple game to pick up. Mana curves, card advantage, board control are pretty core card game concepts. So, if you understand those you can go pretty far right now, I imagine.
I haven't arena'd since it went open beta, and maybe the pool of players is flooded with newer folks, but the best I've gone in arena is 4 wins... and I felt like the people I was playing against made no mistakes, I just drafted better or had better card draws than them.
(edit: my point is, it's obviously not common to do that well, in addition to it being your first arena, unless you had heavily researched or seen the things you may run into with an Arena-sized card pool)
There were plenty of mistakes being made by my opponents, so that's certainly part of it. Even the ones that weren't making obvious mistakes were throwing really crappy cards (overall I dunno, for the situation definitely) late with big hands and taking forever to do so, so I get the feeling they were new.
Yeah, I agree with everyone; lots of very slow players tonight. They seem worse than usual, too, but I'm also trying to climb up from the loser's bracket so...
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
Assuming you've played other card games in this vein it's a pretty simple game to pick up. Mana curves, card advantage, board control are pretty core card game concepts. So, if you understand those you can go pretty far right now, I imagine.
You say that, but I'm running into Legendaries in Rank 18.
I think, for example, that in a lot of circumstances using the coin well is very hard. My winrate is 67% going first and under 60% with the coin, admittedly over a sample of only 120 games.
going first is better in game and always has been no matter what people in the thread say :bz
I dunno, coining into Defias Ringleader on turn 1 is hard to argue against. Even more so if you have a great starting curve.
And being a mana up on your opponent for the entire game is better in the other 99% of situations.
Everywhere I read, people say it should be possible to get 5-7 wins on average and the 0-1 win run should be rare.
I feel like I understand value when drafting and I generally have a good curve when its said and done. But out of the 6 runs I have made in the arena, I've gone 1,2,3,7,0,3,1. I must be doing something wrong and I am looking for advice. What's the best recording software out there? Keep in mind I am very nervous about the security of recording software in general.
It feels as if anything past 3-3 requires preying on people not knowing what they're doing or luck, by definition. Saying "you should be able to win 66% of your games" is kind of like the fact any discussion on Halo assumes the average player has a 2.5 or better KDA.
I could be missing something big, though.
We've done the math (in this thread or a previous iteration of it). Over all players, the mean will be 3 wins. The expected median will be slightly lower but effectively 3 (IIRC). I regularly get 6+ wins, so that means I'm better than the average player. That being said, I think it should be possible for YOU to also get 6+ wins, since I don't think I'm particularly good at this game, but it's not true that everybody can get 5-7 wins on average.
I cannot imagine how that spreadsheet can be correct. I mean I'm not doubting it, it's just that this thread is mostly people crying about how bad luck screwed them out of this thing or the other thing and she's rolling with a median of 8. Luck can go suck it.
Yeah, and she also never picks mage - Arena hardmode. I wish I didn't have stuff to do tonight, so I could bathe in open beta arena noobs. I got to play one priest while waiting after work - turn 2 mind blast value! Followed by a couple Mind Visions. (He pulled my best stuff, but I didn't care).
Also this Warrior deck has Ancient Watcher in it, cause I had an Argus and maybe something else, and the other draft options were terrible. He has shown up in my hand every game so far. And when I mulligan him, he is my first draw. Taunting me. Then Argus bugs out with positioning and can't even give him taunt. Siiigh.
Everywhere I read, people say it should be possible to get 5-7 wins on average and the 0-1 win run should be rare.
I feel like I understand value when drafting and I generally have a good curve when its said and done. But out of the 6 runs I have made in the arena, I've gone 1,2,3,7,0,3,1. I must be doing something wrong and I am looking for advice. What's the best recording software out there? Keep in mind I am very nervous about the security of recording software in general.
It feels as if anything past 3-3 requires preying on people not knowing what they're doing or luck, by definition. Saying "you should be able to win 66% of your games" is kind of like the fact any discussion on Halo assumes the average player has a 2.5 or better KDA.
I could be missing something big, though.
We've done the math (in this thread or a previous iteration of it). Over all players, the mean will be 3 wins. The expected median will be slightly lower but effectively 3 (IIRC). I regularly get 6+ wins, so that means I'm better than the average player. That being said, I think it should be possible for YOU to also get 6+ wins, since I don't think I'm particularly good at this game, but it's not true that everybody can get 5-7 wins on average.
I cannot imagine how that spreadsheet can be correct. I mean I'm not doubting it, it's just that this thread is mostly people crying about how bad luck screwed them out of this thing or the other thing and she's rolling with a median of 8. Luck can go suck it.
People post complaints when luck loses them the game. People don't post when luck wins them the game, they either say nothing or talk about how good they are, so that is probably what you are seeing. Also, people aren't good at being honest with themselves and will blame a loss on luck when really they have a bad deck or they misplayed something.
I've only watched Hafu stream one game, which she lost, and she blamed that loss on unlucky topdecking, so, there you go.
What you draw is of huge importance in this game, which is why deckbuilding is of huge importance, because deckbuilding is a zero luck process that determines what you draw. (Well, assuming you have the cards to deckbuild in the first place, but, you get what I mean).
Inquisitor on
+1
TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
edited January 2014
YES! 5-0 for the first time 8-3 is my best record ever and I had my super good friend tutoring me
Why aren't spell power rogues a thing? Spell power backstab / shiv / fan of knives are pretty amazing, IMO.
They were a thing a couple of months ago, as I understand it. I've been meaning to try one for a while now, and your post reminded me of that. I'm fooling around in unranked with a crappy deck right now, but I don't have a bunch of the cards you'd use (e.g. Azure Drake). Still, I won a couple of games just by taking it slow, not freaking out when my health got low, maintaining card advantage through conservative plays, and trying to maximize the spell damage boost when I had it.
Did you know that, given two Kobold Geomancers on the field, a Sinister Strike is 5 damage to the face for 1 mana? I am determined to make Sinister Strike and Headcrack work, man.
Oh also, don't forget that Blade Flurry benefits from spell damage, too! Did your mage opponent put a Sorcerer's Apprentice , Mirror Image, and Leper Gnome on the board? That's fine, because you can get them all with rogue hero power + Blade Flurry!
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TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
Why aren't spell power rogues a thing? Spell power backstab / shiv / fan of knives are pretty amazing, IMO.
They were a thing a couple of months ago, as I understand it. I've been meaning to try one for a while now, and your post reminded me of that. I'm fooling around in unranked with a crappy deck right now, but I don't have a bunch of the cards you'd use (e.g. Azure Drake). Still, I won a couple of games just by taking it slow, not freaking out when my health got low, maintaining card advantage through conservative plays, and trying to maximize the spell damage boost when I had it.
Did you know that, given two Kobold Geomancers on the field, a Sinister Strike is 5 damage to the face for 1 mana? I am determined to make Sinister Strike and Headcrack work, man.
Oh also, don't forget that Blade Flurry benefits from spell damage, too! Did your mage opponent put a Sorcerer's Apprentice , Mirror Image, and Leper Gnome on the board? That's fine, because you can get them all with rogue hero power + Blade Flurry!
Spell power rogue may not be a legendary deck but it's worth at least rank 5
Got my 100 win quest finished. Decided to blow the gold on packs instead of arena. What did I get? 3 Blessed Champions. God damnit. I did get Baron Geddon in the first pack though, which kinda but not really eased the pain. Probably should have quit after that first pack.
Posts
I dunno, coining into Defias Ringleader on turn 1 is hard to argue against. Even more so if you have a great starting curve.
But I want to get better faster. Someone recommend a solid and safe software to record my draft and games. Then I will upload it and you guys can tell me what I am doing wrong.
Xbox Live / Steam
http://www.ffsplit.com/
Here's one picked randomly from the list twitch recommends
what do you use for recording?
Btw, Obi, I will be happy to watch and comment on your drafts, but based on purely on results, I'm pretty sure Blue is a better drafter and player than I am.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Not sure if I'm quite at 7 average because I don't keep track - if I had to guess I probably average like 6.5, slightly lower than break0even but can usually make gold by doing quests through arena
I'm 8/2 right now, and the amount of times my opponent has had 7 mana, six cards in hand, and had absolutely nothing playable just astonishes me. I'm either absurdly lucky or these people are just batshit crazy, because it feels like a druid with should probably have drawn something better than 4 armor and a shitty minion that heals 3 by turn 7 of a windmill deck.
I mean, I suck, but I've probably played less than 100 games in the Arena.
Edit: I just went live with my awful budget Warlock deck if anybody wants to point and laugh.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Is 7 still the break even point? I do recall last time I got 7, I got exactly 150 gold in a bag, and when I pass 7 is when I start getting 2 gold bags... usually 1 big (150-250) and 1 small (25-75), which seems to support it.
Are you Jesus?
YOU HAVE TWO CARDS AND NOTHING ON THE BOARD
Also I didn't have a single 3 mana killshot that didn't kill exactly what I needed.
EDIT: Also, two of my victories were dudes resigning with tons more cards in hand than me because I had a modestly threatening ghoul/QA out with nothing else. Seemed kinda odd.
Nah, it's open beta. :P
Assuming you've played other card games in this vein it's a pretty simple game to pick up. Mana curves, card advantage, board control are pretty core card game concepts. So, if you understand those you can go pretty far right now, I imagine.
Was this that hunter deck with no lategame from a page or two back? That sounded like a pretty awesome arena deck to me.
EDIT: Yeah, also, having played a game that's similar to this semi-competitively, except you always had all 20 of your decks "cards" in your hand (with 5 mana types), there's really not a ton of meaningful decisions besides risking randomness or not.
I haven't arena'd since it went open beta, and maybe the pool of players is flooded with newer folks, but the best I've gone in arena is 4 wins... and I felt like the people I was playing against made no mistakes, I just drafted better or had better card draws than them.
(edit: my point is, it's obviously not common to do that well, in addition to it being your first arena, unless you had heavily researched or seen the things you may run into with an Arena-sized card pool)
(I only play Ranked for gold so I can play Arena)
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
And being a mana up on your opponent for the entire game is better in the other 99% of situations.
I cannot imagine how that spreadsheet can be correct. I mean I'm not doubting it, it's just that this thread is mostly people crying about how bad luck screwed them out of this thing or the other thing and she's rolling with a median of 8. Luck can go suck it.
Also this Warrior deck has Ancient Watcher in it, cause I had an Argus and maybe something else, and the other draft options were terrible. He has shown up in my hand every game so far. And when I mulligan him, he is my first draw. Taunting me. Then Argus bugs out with positioning and can't even give him taunt. Siiigh.
People post complaints when luck loses them the game. People don't post when luck wins them the game, they either say nothing or talk about how good they are, so that is probably what you are seeing. Also, people aren't good at being honest with themselves and will blame a loss on luck when really they have a bad deck or they misplayed something.
I've only watched Hafu stream one game, which she lost, and she blamed that loss on unlucky topdecking, so, there you go.
What you draw is of huge importance in this game, which is why deckbuilding is of huge importance, because deckbuilding is a zero luck process that determines what you draw. (Well, assuming you have the cards to deckbuild in the first place, but, you get what I mean).
EDIT 6-0!
Confirmed, after a dozen or so arenas I'm currently high scoring
They were a thing a couple of months ago, as I understand it. I've been meaning to try one for a while now, and your post reminded me of that. I'm fooling around in unranked with a crappy deck right now, but I don't have a bunch of the cards you'd use (e.g. Azure Drake). Still, I won a couple of games just by taking it slow, not freaking out when my health got low, maintaining card advantage through conservative plays, and trying to maximize the spell damage boost when I had it.
Did you know that, given two Kobold Geomancers on the field, a Sinister Strike is 5 damage to the face for 1 mana? I am determined to make Sinister Strike and Headcrack work, man.
Oh also, don't forget that Blade Flurry benefits from spell damage, too! Did your mage opponent put a Sorcerer's Apprentice , Mirror Image, and Leper Gnome on the board? That's fine, because you can get them all with rogue hero power + Blade Flurry!
Spell power rogue may not be a legendary deck but it's worth at least rank 5
PRAISE RAGNAROS
That is not all of the ragnarosi that were played in that game