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2 injured, suspect dead in [Colorado School Shooting]

TenekTenek Registered User regular
edited December 2013 in Debate and/or Discourse
Getting reports of an active shooter at Arapahoe High School in CO.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/12/13/developing_active_shooter_situation_at_colorado_high.html

http://kdvr.com/2013/12/13/2-injured-in-shooting-at-arapahoe-high-school/
Our Boris Sanchez was reporting that the ages of the two students shot were 15 and 16, and one of them is in critical condition after being shot in the head. As of 1:50 p.m., Arapahoe County Sheriff Grayson Robinson confirmed that the suspected shooter was dead.





This appears to be over with no indication of another shooter or further injuries reported. No updated on the injured students though.

Tenek on
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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    At least this one looks like it might not have any casualties who aren't the shooter? I guess?

    This sucks.

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  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    Briefing from the sheriff at 3pm MST.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    But Arapahoe County Sheriff Grayson Robinson laid out the working theory for reporters this afternoon: The gunman was a student at the school who arrived targeting a specific teacher, asking for them by name

    Welp.

    I'm not sure what's worse: the typical spree shooting or something like this, which is basically an assassination attempt.

    The Ender on
    With Love and Courage
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Also, the young woman that was shot in the back is still in critical condition.

    With Love and Courage
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    This I'm sure will finally get the ball moving on gun legislation.

    DOT DOT DOT

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    ...The teacher apparently just ran when he heard he was being targeted?


    That makes me angry. It's pretty stupid that it makes me angry - I mean, what is the guy supposed to do?

    But it still makes me mad.


    I guess I'm so used to reported acts of daring heroism that I'm now unfairly biased against people that do something more typical. :|

    With Love and Courage
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2013
    The Ender wrote: »
    ...The teacher apparently just ran when he heard he was being targeted?


    That makes me angry. It's pretty stupid that it makes me angry - I mean, what is the guy supposed to do?

    But it still makes me mad.


    I guess I'm so used to reported acts of daring heroism that I'm now unfairly biased against people that do something more typical. :|

    The teacher was getting away from the students, from what I understand. Apparently, they told the students to stay inside while they ran out, to get the shooter away from them. So keep your faith in humanity The Ender

    Edit: @ing was silly.

    Fencingsax on
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  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    PantsB wrote: »
    This I'm sure will finally get the ball moving on gun legislation.

    DOT DOT DOT
    Or, you know, something that would actually prevent stuff like this.

    Like expansion of Mental Health services and starting a campaign that would reduce/get rid of the othering effect that mental health issues have so people wouldn't be too self conscious or ashamed to get help when they need it.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    This I'm sure will finally get the ball moving on gun legislation.

    DOT DOT DOT
    Or, you know, something that would actually prevent stuff like this.

    Like expansion of Mental Health services and starting a campaign that would reduce/get rid of the othering effect that mental health issues have so people wouldn't to be self conscious or ashamed to get help when they need it.

    There is a non-zero chance that better regulation / healthier firearm culture would also help in general.


    Given that this one was a kid with a conventional shotgun, a chip on his shoulder and whatever other problems that are probably going to be unearthed, though, yeah: firearm regulation probably wouldn't have had the most impact here. It echoes of the Taber shooting.


    If it was another kid with a semi-automatic pistol and dozens of rounds of ammunition, then it would probably be more reasonable to start asking regulatory questions again (...on that same token, I would note: one kid with a shotgun was certainly not able to do what a guy with a Bushmaster or glock was able to do in a school).

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  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Probably wouldn't have been something that could be prevented with better control. That's not to say we don't need better control, but it's very unlikely that such measures would have prevented this.

    Possible that better mental health could have prevented this, but we don't have enough details yet.

    I'm curious to hear what this kids beef was with the teacher because that's going to give us the best clue of what, if anything, could have been done to prevent this.

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  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Paranoiac Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    This I'm sure will finally get the ball moving on gun legislation.

    DOT DOT DOT
    Or, you know, something that would actually prevent stuff like this.

    Like expansion of Mental Health services and starting a campaign that would reduce/get rid of the othering effect that mental health issues have so people wouldn't to be self conscious or ashamed to get help when they need it.

    There is a non-zero chance that better regulation / healthier firearm culture would also help in general.


    Given that this one was a kid with a conventional shotgun, a chip on his shoulder and whatever other problems that are probably going to be unearthed, though, yeah: firearm regulation probably wouldn't have had the most impact here. It echoes of the Taber shooting.


    If it was another kid with a semi-automatic pistol and dozens of rounds of ammunition, then it would probably be more reasonable to start asking regulatory questions again (...on that same token, I would note: one kid with a shotgun was certainly not able to do what a guy with a Bushmaster or glock was able to do in a school).

    I agree with both of the above. On the one hand firearms that kill with greater efficiency lead to a higher bodycount in the event of a spree shooting. OTOH unless we restrict access to all firearms harsher gun control wouldn't have helped at all in this case. Jumping to there because of an event like this just makes progressives seem as nuts as the NRA wants its constituents to think we are.

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Demodog It's a play on wordsRegistered User regular
    Even though I'm sad for the two kids wounded by this, it could have been far worse. I'm really glad the shooter is apparently the only casualty, and I hope it stays that way.

    Friends don't lie.
  • HenroidHenroid How do you get a centrist to change their mind? Take away their privilege.Registered User regular
    As minimal as the damage was with this incident, what the hell fell apart for this kid to make him do this in the first place and why wasn't it prevented?

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  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    Police now saying only the one victim; the other had the original victim's blood on them.

    Also the shooter had a pair of Molotov cocktails on him. With kids locked in classrooms and closets, that could have turned out so much worse.

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  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Allergic to whimsy Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    As minimal as the damage was with this incident, what the hell fell apart for this kid to make him do this in the first place and why wasn't it prevented?

    Parents working 20 jobs apiece for minimum wage, no mental health care, and an unhealthy obsession with firearms would be my guess.

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    Fencingsax wrote: »
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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Demodog It's a play on wordsRegistered User regular
    Until we get more details, idle speculation is just that.

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  • rockrngerrockrnger Registered User regular
    Its nice (but sad, I guess) that these have happened enough that all the people involved know what to do.

    So far it sounds like everyone did exactly what they were supposed to do and saved a lot of lives.

  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    edited December 2013
    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/13/21896258-colorado-school-gunman-seen-as-bright-and-passionate-about-politics?lite

    "Abbey Skoda, a junior, told The Denver Post: "He had very strong beliefs about gun laws and stuff. I also heard he was bullied a lot."

    Uh oh.

    "Neighbors said Pierson was a nice, quiet teen who lived with a nice, quiet family in a nice, quiet neighborhood."

    I bet those neighbors are lying.

    Trace on
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  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    Thats code for he was beaten regularly but we ignored it because thats what good neighbors do if I ever saw it

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  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    No. No I don't think it was like that.

    I haven't seen or heard anything about the kid's dad but I'd bet my left nut that his father probably listens to Limbaugh and considers Sean Hannity to be a voice of reason.

  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    "Neighbors said Pierson was a nice, quiet teen who lived with a nice, quiet family in a nice, quiet neighborhood."

    I bet those neighbors are lying.

    stahp
    Thats code for he was beaten regularly but we ignored it because thats what good neighbors do if I ever saw it

    STAAAHHHP
    I haven't seen or heard anything about the kid's dad but I'd bet my left nut that his father probably listens to Limbaugh and considers Sean Hannity to be a voice of reason.

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  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-colorado-school-shooter-identified-20131213,0,7601970.story#axzz2nTJH52FS

    "Joe Redmond, also a fellow senior and one of three co-captains of the debate team, said Pierson was kicked off the team and suspended from school in September for a few weeks after threatening the coach."

    "Pierson told Redmond that he still hated the teacher, and said, “Apparently you get suspended for threatening to kill a teacher.” He said Pierson went cold at that point, looked at Redmond, and then looked at the ground."



  • DeadfallDeadfall Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    ...The teacher apparently just ran when he heard he was being targeted?


    That makes me angry. It's pretty stupid that it makes me angry - I mean, what is the guy supposed to do?

    But it still makes me mad.


    I guess I'm so used to reported acts of daring heroism that I'm now unfairly biased against people that do something more typical. :|

    what

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  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    Deadfall wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    ...The teacher apparently just ran when he heard he was being targeted?


    That makes me angry. It's pretty stupid that it makes me angry - I mean, what is the guy supposed to do?

    But it still makes me mad.


    I guess I'm so used to reported acts of daring heroism that I'm now unfairly biased against people that do something more typical. :|

    what

    The shooter didn't know where the teacher was and was demanding to know where he was at while holding the gun.

    Students warned the teacher who did the smart thing and left the building before the shooter could find him.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    No. No I don't think it was like that.

    I haven't seen or heard anything about the kid's dad but I'd bet my left nut that his father probably listens to Limbaugh and considers Sean Hannity to be a voice of reason.

    Why do people do this shit every time.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    Before people start making stuff up.

    The kid is reported to be from Highlands Ranch. Middle to Upper Middle Class white neighborhood that tends to vote republican and is a quiet, safe neighborhood. And is pretty much a perfect example of suburbia.

    His parents voting or opinions on voting or who they watch probably have 0 to do with any of this. Really just go ahead don't speculate and make shit up like that.

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  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Everything I've read also notes that he was bullied a lot. So what might appear to be a nice quiet safe neighborhood for everyone else, it was probably filled with people who were assholes towards him. Middle class white people and their children tend to be the worst when it comes to bullying regardless of political opinion.

    Then again threatening to kill a teacher should've been met with a few visits to the school counselor instead of a suspension.

  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Are the parents even confirmed to still be alive? It's often the case in these situations that the parents were killed first at home before the shooter went to kill other people.

  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    Mayabird wrote: »
    Are the parents even confirmed to still be alive? It's often the case in these situations that the parents were killed first at home before the shooter went to kill other people.

    Parents are alive. And have not been mentioned as dead since they have been in the guys house.

    http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24724553/arapahoe-high-school-shooting-sheriffs-office-interview-hundreds

    Kind of stick to the news going in.

    A lot of these tend to be a mix of things. Arapahoe is a big school. It is the IB school for a couple of districts. The school also is out of his neighborhood by the way.

    The fact he targeted a teacher is interesting. The fact he committed suicide after hurting others, including a girl who was his friend shows that he probably had overwhelming remorse afterwards.

    Listen I know trying to figure out and guess why is the favorite past time for these things. But let us stick to the information that has come out. And not try to paint this one way or another.

    Also the bullying thing is possible. Big schools tend to have such things go more unnoticed than say a smaller school. Especially a school like Arapahoe that runs on an odd block schedule so there are almost always students moving about and not all the students are in school at the same time.

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  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    It's a little late for remorse after you've already brought a firearm & some bombs to school with the intent of performing a hit on a teacher, and shot your 'friend' in the back on the way there.

    With Love and Courage
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    Deadfall wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    ...The teacher apparently just ran when he heard he was being targeted?


    That makes me angry. It's pretty stupid that it makes me angry - I mean, what is the guy supposed to do?

    But it still makes me mad.


    I guess I'm so used to reported acts of daring heroism that I'm now unfairly biased against people that do something more typical. :|

    what

    The shooter didn't know where the teacher was and was demanding to know where he was at while holding the gun.

    Students warned the teacher who did the smart thing and left the building before the shooter could find him.

    As I mentioned, the teacher's goal was to get the shooter away from the school.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx I can dig it. Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    It's a little late for remorse after you've already brought a firearm & some bombs to school with the intent of performing a hit on a teacher, and shot your 'friend' in the back on the way there.

    The time line wast less than 5 minutes between him shooting the girl and him shooting himself.

    I know we like to think of these folks as monsters but this one seems to have shot her then shot himself in a very short amount of time. My guess, and I want to stress guess is he shot her, saw it and then probably had the remorse hit and took his own life.

    There is a difference between say gunning 10 people down with a weapon far away and shooting someone right in front of you with a shotgun, especially if they weren't the target. Kid probably had something push him over the edge in the first place, this probably pushed him over the edge in a way backwards so he took his life.

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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Trace wrote: »
    Then again threatening to kill a teacher should've been met with a few visits to the school counselor instead of a suspension.

    um, no. Anyone who threatens to kill a teacher should be removed from the school on the spot. You need to have zero tolerance for that type of behavior.

    If you threaten to kill a teacher you should be removed from the property, your parents should be notified, and you should not be allowed to return until you have visited with a counselor who feels it's safe for you to return.

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  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    Yeah but how many kids say "I'm going to kill x" and actually mean it?

    Punishment should have been given but removing him from the school doesn't help. I bet if they had sat him in a room with the teacher a school counselor and a principal things might not have gone so bad. By all accounts the kid seemed to love to debate and talk, so they should have talked with him. Don't kick him out of the school for a few days and let it fester.

    Suspension doesn't even work as intended because the kids that get suspended with it the most have the parents that don't give a shit the most. In school suspension works better, remove the kid from the general population, but keep him in the school to learn and so he has a counselor to talk with if he wants too and so he can continue learning at least on some level.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Demodog It's a play on wordsRegistered User regular
    What in the world is the point of guessing anything

    I would hereby like to speculate that Sarah Palin has a hairy chest

    But what in the world can be gained from such speculation except to pass premature judgment

    Wait until the facts are out before feeling sorry for or condemning or whatever to anybody related to this

    Friends don't lie.
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Sometimes it's okay to just recognize that it is a tragedy and not try to work out the details of whose fault it is. Leave that to the police who are actually investigating it in person.

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  • Caulk Bite 6Caulk Bite 6 One of the multitude of Dans infesting this place Registered User regular
    Yes, let's not be the forum equivalent of gossip central/cnn, here.

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  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Trace wrote: »
    No. No I don't think it was like that.

    I haven't seen or heard anything about the kid's dad but I'd bet my left nut that his father probably listens to Limbaugh and considers Sean Hannity to be a voice of reason.

    Why do people do this shit every time.

    So, it actually turns out his parents are divorced (separated in 2011), he lives with his mother and sister (mom kept the house), his mother worked for Douglas County School District (possibly still does and, according to one of his friends, the shooter was a vocal, self-proclaimed communist. He bought the gun ten days ago.

    spool32
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    The kid was obviously disturbed and what he did do was terrible. but I've seen several headlines today like:
    "Colorado Gunman Intended to Kill Many, Police Say"
    "Colorado school shooter came armed for slaughter"
    "Colorado school rampage lasted less than 2 minutes"


    Like, is what did happen not bad enough? Why do the Cops/Media need to construct this massive counter-factual blood bath that didn't actually happen to scare people with. And I think it makes how we perceive the entire incident wrong.

    I guess this is equally speculative, but from the facts we have this thing reads much more as a 'suicide but I'm taking that bastard with me' situation rather than a lets shoot everyone I can cause I'm fucking crazy. Evidenced by the fact that he shot 1 person( because 'that bastard' was out of reach) and then killed himself.

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  • Knuckle DraggerKnuckle Dragger Explosive Ovine Disposal Registered User regular
    My personal favorite was the one that described the molotovs as "explosive devices".

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