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Comics News Thread V: All The News Unfit to Print

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    DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    The other thing I find myself thinking is this: OK, so now I'm being all "people can change" and "let's give him a chance" and so on.

    Would I be saying the same thing if it was a woman who owned up to past misdeeds and promised to do better?

    I like to think that I'm all the time becoming more even-minded and empathetic, but I'm not perfect, I'm a product of Western culture, and Western culture has a tendency to treat women who transgress much harsher than men who transgress. Whenever one of these "Let's give him another chance" conversations comes up, I always wonder: would I be as willing to give her a chance?

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    DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    (The answer is always "Man I hope so, but I honestly can't even know now if I would recognize the moment when it came".)

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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    Good news everyone, it was all just the result of shadowy agitators, out to smear Chris Sims and Comics Alliance.
    Chris understands this now, and has understood it for years. He ended his harassment of D’Orazio several years ago. He has issued an apology on his own blog in an overdue attempt to make amends, and will issue a second statement and apology shortly via this site. We know Chris, so we know that his apology is sincere, though we cannot and would not insist that others believe or accept it.

    The apology did not come out of nowhere. It was initially made in direct response to David Gallaher, a comics writer and D’Orazio’s husband, who contacted Chris to warn him that someone was threatening to expose Chris as a bully following the news of Chris’s recently announced Marvel writing assignment — despite the fact that everything they sought to “expose” is on the public record. We were also aware of this campaign to target Chris, as Twitter accounts were created and later deleted solely to further this campaign, and messages were sent to Chris, David, their friends, and the editors of ComicsAlliance.

    Someone was targeting Chris not out of a sense of justice, but because they wanted to destroy his success. The campaign may also have been one of several efforts we’re aware of to discredit ComicsAlliance. These are not the tactics of progressives concerned about harassment in comics, but of agitators looking to tear down progressive voices — of which Chris is certainly one — using methods of harassment.

    What a fucking garbage fire. People are straight up stating that this is only coming up now, because people were threatening to make an issue of it? Good. It's not like they'd have been spreading falsehoods. If you punch me in the face, people are allowed to say, "Yo, that guy punched Munch in the face," without it being dressed up as a conspiracy, and an attempt to discredit you.

    Sarah Horrocks's Twitter feed sums up my feelings, pretty well. I feel like the CA staff is doing a really piss-poor job of handling this story.

    Also, having Bryan Lee O'Malley take time out of his day to call you out? Impressive.

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    AtomicTofuAtomicTofu She's a straight-up supervillain, yo Registered User regular
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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    You know, I looked at Comics Alliance for the first time in forever, and that place comes across now as being too cool for school. Outside of that apology and another Sims article on the top runner, there was an article written about the Batgirl cover which basically dissolved to "Erik Larsen sucks and shame on anyone who does work for Image because he's really saying you guys are terrible too."

    More than that, it treats Albuquerque's cover like it's a Charlie Hebdo cover, not in-lining it but only showing a link to it. But then they pick a page Larsen drew from Doom Patrol almost 20 years ago that shows Lodestone clad in a bikini trying to sunbathe. And this coinciding with how they word the Sims thing seems to be completely lost on them.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    As many of you know, ComicsAlliance recently addressed the issue of one of its writers bullying of a woman in comics six or seven years ago. I'm glad ComicsAlliance addressed this. I'm glad Chris took accountability for his behavior. It was right for them and him to do so.

    But it's also hard for me to ignore that this conversation is happening in large part because of an anti-progressive campaign. Valerie has every right to come forward and speak about her experiences, but it's also true that the conversation was initially sparked by the skeleton digging of people seeking to discredit ComicsAlliance as a progressive site. This is particularly upsetting for me, not only because I created ComicsAlliance, but because I've spent the better part of the last year living in fear of these exact sorts of people, receiving death threats from them, and watching them try to destroy my friends and colleagues in games.

    Some people have expressed that this context should not be mentioned—that doing so is merely a way of mitigating or excusing Chris's behavior. I disagree. Understanding it or acknowledging it in no way makes Chris less accountable. We can and should have accountability, and I'm glad that we're seeing that. But I don't believe holding people accountable has to be mutually exclusive with nuance, or that offering context is necessarily a way of making excuses. I think that it is both possible and important to do both.

    We can condemn what happened without reservation, and also acknowledge the troubling fingerprints of the people who are actively trying to dismantle progressive voices in comics. To me, that's worth mentioning, not least of all because this campaign to target progressive voices in comics will likely not end here; indeed, I've already spoken with others who have found themselves in the crosshairs of planned harassment efforts.

    There's a difference between excuses and relevant context. There's no excuse for what happened. It's important that we have the conversations about harassment that come out of this, but it's also important that we understand that those conversations did not generate in a vacuum.

    Just to bring the text over.

    That seems

    Completely understandable and not crazy or wrong.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Nobody is owed forgiveness. It has to be given freely, or it's not really forgiveness.

    That said, you cannot change what you have done, and I can't really see what else Chris Sims could possibly do at this stage.

    Sometimes, you just have to live with the shit you've done, and regret that, and try to be better.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I think the public shaming aspect of this shit is fucking disgusting.

    Langly on
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    As many of you know, ComicsAlliance recently addressed the issue of one of its writers bullying of a woman in comics six or seven years ago. I'm glad ComicsAlliance addressed this. I'm glad Chris took accountability for his behavior. It was right for them and him to do so.

    But it's also hard for me to ignore that this conversation is happening in large part because of an anti-progressive campaign. Valerie has every right to come forward and speak about her experiences, but it's also true that the conversation was initially sparked by the skeleton digging of people seeking to discredit ComicsAlliance as a progressive site. This is particularly upsetting for me, not only because I created ComicsAlliance, but because I've spent the better part of the last year living in fear of these exact sorts of people, receiving death threats from them, and watching them try to destroy my friends and colleagues in games.

    Some people have expressed that this context should not be mentioned—that doing so is merely a way of mitigating or excusing Chris's behavior. I disagree. Understanding it or acknowledging it in no way makes Chris less accountable. We can and should have accountability, and I'm glad that we're seeing that. But I don't believe holding people accountable has to be mutually exclusive with nuance, or that offering context is necessarily a way of making excuses. I think that it is both possible and important to do both.

    We can condemn what happened without reservation, and also acknowledge the troubling fingerprints of the people who are actively trying to dismantle progressive voices in comics. To me, that's worth mentioning, not least of all because this campaign to target progressive voices in comics will likely not end here; indeed, I've already spoken with others who have found themselves in the crosshairs of planned harassment efforts.

    There's a difference between excuses and relevant context. There's no excuse for what happened. It's important that we have the conversations about harassment that come out of this, but it's also important that we understand that those conversations did not generate in a vacuum.

    Just to bring the text over.

    That seems

    Completely understandable and not crazy or wrong.

    For me, it's just not germane to the conversation. It's a different conversation entirely, really.

    Sims harassed D'Orazio, in her words and his.

    The why of it being brought to light, the insistence that it all arose from a plot to discredit Comics Alliance and Sims, true or not, doesn't matter. The harassment happened. Everyone involved admitted it happened. If it's only being brought to light and discussed now, solely to attack Sims and CA, it doesn't matter.

    No one's lying, or obfuscating facts, in order to make Sims look bad. They're telling the truth about some crappy stuff he said and did, half a decade ago.

    CA could have left it with Sims' Ask Chris post, to let him explain himself. It was well-worded, and really said everything it needed to. Instead, I feel as if they tried to shift the conversation onto why it's come to light, and how Sims and CA were intentionally targeted by an anti-progressive movement. It's entirely possible it's true, but in this specific conversation, it really doesn't matter. And it runs counter to Sims' effort to accept responsibility for what he did, by shifting some of the blame onto outside agitators.

    I will say this - I like Sims. War Rocket Ajax is one of the big reasons I fell into comics culture so hard. I'm a big fan of his work, from podcasts to comics. He's always struck me as a good guy, who just enjoyed his combative internet persona a bit too much. So, I hope he'll weather this, and be back on an upward trajectory soon enough. Further, I hope that D'Orazio's career gets a shot in the arm, with all this sudden attention on her and her work. I really wish the best to both of those dudes. But, I think the whole thing's worth chatting about, while it's in the public consciousness.
    TexiKen wrote:
    You know, I looked at Comics Alliance for the first time in forever, and that place comes across now as being too cool for school. Outside of that apology and another Sims article on the top runner, there was an article written about the Batgirl cover which basically dissolved to "Erik Larsen sucks and shame on anyone who does work for Image because he's really saying you guys are terrible too."

    More than that, it treats Albuquerque's cover like it's a Charlie Hebdo cover, not in-lining it but only showing a link to it. But then they pick a page Larsen drew from Doom Patrol almost 20 years ago that shows Lodestone clad in a bikini trying to sunbathe. And this coinciding with how they word the Sims thing seems to be completely lost on them.

    I don't agree with all your points, but the current state of Comics Alliance is kind of a bummer. I feel like they went from being a site that provided a really unique voice, and content, to just another news aggregator. And 99.9% of the crap from ScreenCrush, isn't worth looking at. Plus I've kiiiiinda come to question the ethics in them doing their Best Art Ever/Best Cosplay Ever features. They're effectively monetizing other people's content via ads, without compensation, on a weekly basis. It never occurred to me until recently, but that's kind of shady.

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    JyrenBJyrenB St. AugustineRegistered User regular
    I don't think it's insane to say Sims shouldn't have a job after something like this. I don't AGREE, but I don't think it's insane. He built his career on being a jerk, as he says himself. A part of this is tearing down a creator and engaging in and encouraging harassment of her. The work he does now, the popularity he has, is tied up in this. People are fired for actions like this. EVEN actions in the past.

    And you know what? It's fucking disgusting to say that because it happened years ago, it matters less. Because that's not true. He TOOK these actions in the past, but they are STILL having an effect on the victim. Every. Single. Day. That doesn't stop. That's what PTSD is. That's why shit like this is a big deal. That's why all the shit around GG is a huge deal. People are still suffering even after the direction action has ended.

    I see a constant cry of "We all said stupid shit when we were young" but you know what? FUCK THAT. We did all say stupid shit. But did we harass people to this degree? Because doing stupid shit and doing something like this are not at all the same thing. And along those same lines, why the hell are we all so concerned with being the person in trouble for this rather than the victim?

    This isn't about what Chris Sims should do to make better. HE CAN'T. In fact, his apology on CA is pretty damn good because he owns up to that and basically everything else. But there are things that can be talked about that don't always end with "Well, there's nothing we can do since it was in the past soooo..."

    And see, that's the point. The actions he took can't be fixed. And that's more important than what we should do about it. Realize that our own actions have consequences and can do things like this to someone's life. Stop being shitty to one another just because it's funny or it's just the internet. Actions have consequences...and it's very likely Sims will have none beyond some people saying he shouldn't be hired and a bunch of GG assholes trying to take advantage of things, but that is NOTHING compared to what D'Orazio dealt with. Doesn't mean Sims deserves it (because he absolutely doesn't), but it also feels pretty wrong to treat him like the real victim in all of this.

    Saying all of this, again, I don't think he should be fired. I do think Sims is, generally, a much better dude now. I think CA did the best they could, even if that statement they put out was weird, because context IS important. This is shit on all ends, though, and there's no good that can really come of it other than hoping we can all be better.

    Sorry. That was a longer rant than I meant it to be, and there's more I want to say but probably isn't my place to, so I'll shut up finally.

    Main thing is there's no closure to this like we want from bad situations. It's just out there in the open and we all have to come to terms with the fact that we tolerate a lot of horrible shit because we like a person and maybe it's time to stop that.

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    HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    I want to briefly recognize the work Rich Johnston does to keep people in the industry honest, and to get recognition and payment for older creators when their work is used in movies.

    The people on these boards and elsewhere on the internet completely vilify him, but it's kind of important to have someone like that around.

    We would maybe still be having this discussion about Sims, perhaps at a smaller level or perhaps more slowly over time, but BC made it impossible not to address.

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    JyrenBJyrenB St. AugustineRegistered User regular
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    I want to briefly recognize the work Rich Johnston does to keep people in the industry honest, and to get recognition and payment for older creators when their work is used in movies.

    The people on these boards and elsewhere on the internet completely vilify him, but it's kind of important to have someone like that around.

    We would maybe still be having this discussion about Sims, perhaps at a smaller level or perhaps more slowly over time, but BC made it impossible not to address.

    I have...complicated feelings about BC (hell, they ran a thing by me that helped promote OSAS so I can't hate them too much without being a complete hypocrite), but I wouldn't give them credit for this one.

    This caught fire the second D'Orazio started posting about it on twitter and was all OVER comics before it was up on BC. That definitely alerted a lot of people, but I expect every single bit of this would have happened either way.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Rich Johnston is a racist hack

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    JyrenB wrote: »
    I don't think it's insane to say Sims shouldn't have a job after something like this. I don't AGREE, but I don't think it's insane. He built his career on being a jerk, as he says himself. A part of this is tearing down a creator and engaging in and encouraging harassment of her. The work he does now, the popularity he has, is tied up in this. People are fired for actions like this. EVEN actions in the past.

    This is what the article on the Mary Sue said and it's a huge exaggeration. Chris Sims did not become successful for a series of articles on this lady. Marvel did not hire him because he laid down some sick burns. CA did not employ him because he made a woman cry. He was hired because he's a good writer.

    It matters that it was years ago because people are busy calling him trash and calling for his entire career to be over (not fired, his career) when he has obviously not been doing this and instead been doing the opposite in the past five years.

    There's not a discussion here. What even is the discussion?

    "Well that was shitty. You shouldn't do that. It's good you aren't doing it anymore "

    "Yep"

    Instead all that's happening is analyzing when Chris sims made a public apology, how sincere was this public apology, how long he should properly dress in sack cloth, and so on.

    The amount of public pressure we apply to individuals that we absolutely do not apply to ourselves is crazy.

    Have you ever had an argument with someone and been a jerk? Like a real asshole? Did you then make a blog post apology?

    People who were in no way affected, who had no idea and didn't even know who either of these people were are now taking the time to go tweet at sims and tell him he's garbage and that his work should all fail, because they're mad at him and he should feel bad. Never mind the person he is now, never mind the distance between him and the actions. He is now a piece of garbage and he is now worthless. He did something to one person, but his very public apology to everyone is expected and evaluated.

    The Internet thrives on putting people in stocks.

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    PacMan1979PacMan1979 Registered User regular
    Is there a thread for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comic? I read a recent article about an important characters death, and wanted to get feedback if its worth getting into the series. I loved the turtles as a kid, and own most of the original Eastman and Laird comics.

    I also posted this in the "Don't know much about comics" Thread that is stickied at the top, but I don't think that thread gets a lot of replies. Apologies for the repost.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    PacMan1979 wrote: »
    Is there a thread for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comic? I read a recent article about an important characters death, and wanted to get feedback if its worth getting into the series. I loved the turtles as a kid, and own most of the original Eastman and Laird comics.

    I also posted this in the "Don't know much about comics" Thread that is stickied at the top, but I don't think that thread gets a lot of replies. Apologies for the repost.

    I'm really enjoying the series. The main series wanders around a bit sometimes, but the mini-comics focusing on individual characters have been especially good. And I say this as someone with very little nostalgia for the Turtles.

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    The Internet thrives on putting people in stocks.

    So what's the fix? His persistent actions years ago led the persistent social anxiety of a real person. Is the apology enough? Should things just be wrapped up from there?

    I like Chris Sims. I think he's improved. I think he's become a better person.

    But I also think he largely came from the situation, where he hurt another human being deeply, with no consequences. X-Men '92 will still be published. It'll still live or die on his writing.

    And for many, the idea that you can so deeply hurt a person and walk away from it with no problems, feels wrong. There is a feeling that the consequences should fit the harm given, which is currently what Sims is probably going through. To simply and sincerely say "I was wrong" and expect that to be it, seems odd. As D'Orazio herself says:

    "And no, I'm not going to accept this person's (sudden) apology because he MESSED MY LIFE UP!!! I'll forgive him when the PTSD goes away. I was almost driven to suicide because of this harassment online. I get sudden flashbacks even reading about the harassment of other women. And now this guy is suddenly "sorry"??? After years and years? Go to hell, Chris Sims!!! Actions have consequences, even years later."

    And that is her right. Beyond that, I don't have answers.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    There isn't a fix, that is reality.

    you apologize and move on.

    Chris Sims did not commit a crime, he does not owe anyone money. He has changed and been an outspoken person against the toxic nature of the internet for years. That's all you can ask.

    Langly on
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    GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Langly wrote: »
    There isn't a fix, that is reality.

    you apologize and move on.

    Chris Sims did not commit a crime, he does not owe anyone money. He has changed and been an outspoken person against the toxic nature of the internet for years. That's all you can ask.

    You have to understand, Langly - a lot of people who say they support social justice really only get off on the part of "justice" where the mob gets to render judgment on and then punish the guilty.

    Gaslight on
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    PacMan1979PacMan1979 Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    PacMan1979 wrote: »
    Is there a thread for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comic? I read a recent article about an important characters death, and wanted to get feedback if its worth getting into the series. I loved the turtles as a kid, and own most of the original Eastman and Laird comics.

    I'm really enjoying the series. The main series wanders around a bit sometimes, but the mini-comics focusing on individual characters have been especially good. And I say this as someone with very little nostalgia for the Turtles.

    Thank you! I did more research on it and found out that is published by IDW and they are 44 issues in.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_(IDW_Publishing)

    I look forward to reading some of the mini-comics you mentioned, especially the one about the formation of the original foot clan. It's been a while since I bought comics, is it difficult to collect the back issues on these, or should my local comic store be able to get them? Is obtaining them online a better option? What would you guys recommend?

    Apologies if I'm going off topic. I couldn't find a TMNT thread via the search.

    PacMan1979 on
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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Langly wrote: »
    There isn't a fix, that is reality.

    you apologize and move on.

    Chris Sims did not commit a crime, he does not owe anyone money. He has changed and been an outspoken person against the toxic nature of the internet for years. That's all you can ask.

    That is the truth, I guess.

    In the end, Sims is fine. He has his job. X-Men '92 isn't going anywhere. His internet travails are an unfortunate side effect of past actions on his part. I hope if any others have harassed him that they offer up their apologies and he gets to move on. He understands the "stocks" as you put it, better than most, now being on both sides.

    Automaticzen on
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    Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    I don't really understand what she wants the outcome to be. If she's not forgiving at this point in her life that's understandable. If she isn't willing to accept he could have grown, that's fine. However, angry social media rants seem like they help no-one, herself included.

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I don't really understand what she wants the outcome to be. If she's not forgiving at this point in her life that's understandable. If she isn't willing to accept he could have grown, that's fine. However, angry social media rants seem like they help no-one, herself included.

    The outcome seemed rather clear. "This happened, I was deeply hurt, and there was no apology forthcoming until the person who harassed me thought it was coming out in time for the announcement of his comic, please do not forget that." I don't think she moved farther than that. I assume the point is catharsis or getting Marvel to rethink employing Sims.

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    DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    I think there's something to be said for unburdening yourself and speaking out-loud the things that have been building, multiplying, possibly festering inside of you for years. So, I think that if nothing else, the angry social media rants might serve that purpose, and provide an outlet for it.

    It's like lancing a pustule and letting the gross stuff flow out so the wound has a chance at healing.

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    JyrenBJyrenB St. AugustineRegistered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    This is what the article on the Mary Sue said and it's a huge exaggeration. Chris Sims did not become successful for a series of articles on this lady. Marvel did not hire him because he laid down some sick burns. CA did not employ him because he made a woman cry. He was hired because he's a good writer.

    It isn't a huge exaggeration. He built a fanbase by being a jerk, he says this HIMSELF. Part of being a jerk was constant harassment. His career, his fanbase, is at least PARTIALLY BUILT from doing that. Because that's the thing, his career and his fanbase are one and the same. That's how people make it blogging, especially in the years he was doing it, as he says. It's personality driven and that was the personality he very actively cultivated.
    It matters that it was years ago because people are busy calling him trash and calling for his entire career to be over (not fired, his career) when he has obviously not been doing this and instead been doing the opposite in the past five years.

    See. Here's the other problem. The entire discussion is framed for him, as if he's the real victim here. It was years ago FOR HIM. It is all the time for her. Every day for all of those years. Him doing the opposite and being a better dude hasn't changed that or made it any better, and in those intervening years he also never bothered to apologize. And she was STILL dealing with all of it. This is a big deal that is being constantly ignored by saying how long ago it was. HE may have changed, but his actions continue to have an effect. That's a big fucking deal.

    People have every right to call him trash or call for the end of his career. Calling for it won't make it happen. Hell, it probably wouldn't make it happen if it was more recent.
    There's not a discussion here. What even is the discussion?

    Maybe we should talk about why we reward people for being shitty to other people? Maybe we should talk about owning up to actions before it's gone too far? Maybe we should talk about not blaming the victim (because calling for his career to end is NOTHING compared to the people all over, and on this very board, saying they don't believe her or looking for justification for what he did)? Maybe we should talk about why we allow a lot of pretty serious assholes into positions of power in comics?

    Yeah, a lot of these discussions aren't going to be nice or good and might even be beyond the realm of fans...but they are important. They need to be had. As much as, if not MORE than, all the talk about whether a cover is appropriate for an audience or not. But we all would rather talk about the cover. We'd rather talk about Marvel's Secret Wars plans and whether it makes any damn sense or not. And we'd rather just ignore that in a lot of ways, comics is fucked up and we let it be that way.

    The real discussion here, the larger discussion, isn't about Sims or D'Orazio. It's about not continuing to create an atmosphere where harassment is something we just brush off.

    The reality here is that I may just be coming at this from a different angle because I'm pushing very hard to be a part of the industry and I don't want that to be the industry I'm a part of. I want us to take care of our own and stop putting up with assholes. Because you know what? This isn't the only case of harassment in comics. Sims isn't the only prominent dude a lot of us like that has done it. And that's FUCKED UP.
    Instead all that's happening is analyzing when Chris sims made a public apology, how sincere was this public apology, how long he should properly dress in sack cloth, and so on.

    The amount of public pressure we apply to individuals that we absolutely do not apply to ourselves is crazy.

    Have you ever had an argument with someone and been a jerk? Like a real asshole? Did you then make a blog post apology?

    I think Sims can handle it. I think what he did to her is far worse than anything he'll get. And, again, I don't think he deserves any harassment because of it either. But we're so caught up in this idea of being the jerk rather than being the person on the other end that it's easy to ignore where you actually don't want to be.

    Because, guess what? We have all been jerks or real assholes to people. But have we all taken that to a point of constant harassment that has driven a person to years of therapy? I fucking hope not. If that's normal for you, if you are REALLY worried you've done something that bad, you need to step back and think about the kind of person you want to be. Because that is not normal. That's not okay.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    PacMan1979 wrote: »
    PacMan1979 wrote: »
    Is there a thread for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comic? I read a recent article about an important characters death, and wanted to get feedback if its worth getting into the series. I loved the turtles as a kid, and own most of the original Eastman and Laird comics.

    I'm really enjoying the series. The main series wanders around a bit sometimes, but the mini-comics focusing on individual characters have been especially good. And I say this as someone with very little nostalgia for the Turtles.

    Thank you! I did more research on it and found out that is published by IDW and they are 44 issues in.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_(IDW_Publishing)

    I look forward to reading some of the mini-comics you mentioned, especially the one about the formation of the original foot clan. It's been a while since I bought comics, is it difficult to collect the back issues on these, or should my local comic store be able to get them? Is obtaining them online a better option? What would you guys recommend?

    Apologies if I'm going off topic. I couldn't find a TMNT thread via the search.

    @PacMan1979 If you have a tablet or a decent sized desktop monitor, you may want to look into digital comics on Comixology, which is a really easy, fairly cheap option. If you'd rather get physical copies, I'd recommend looking at the trade paperback collections over single issues. You can get good deals on single issues at sites like mycomicshop.com and midtowncomics.com, you can get good deals on trade paperbacks on sites like instocktrades.com and Amazon.

    Hope that helps!

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    PacMan1979PacMan1979 Registered User regular
    It helps a lot, thanks so much! I'll start looking at all those options now.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    I definitely think the best way we should talk about this is in all caps.

    Because that's what the Internet wants and needs, more shouting.

    Langly on
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    JyrenBJyrenB St. AugustineRegistered User regular
    I'm not going to play this game, so I guess that's that. Internet snark wins again. Yay.

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    XBL: JyrenB ; Steam: Jyren ; Twitter
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    MunchMunch Registered User regular
    Langly wrote: »
    I definitely think the best way we should talk about this is in all caps.

    Because that's what the Internet wants and needs, more shouting.

    Your position basically seems to be, "Meh, move on, what's there to say, why are we even talking about this?"

    Which doesn't leave much room for any kind of talk at all. And I'm not sure you're wrong. This isn't necessarily a productive talk. There's nothing to fix, and the facts are pretty clearly established. But it's an interesting issue, because it's not one I've really seen crop up, before now.

    Sims and Comics Alliance are two entities that made their name calling out people for bad behavior, and championing people in comics who'd been hard done. Suddenly, they're on the other side of that, and I don't think they're handling it as well as you'd expect them to. I mean, you've got Brianna Wu weighing in on this thing, now.

    If nothing else, I think it's worth talking about this stuff, because it may encourage people within comics culture to be more civil, in the future. If people realize that the crap you do and say to other people can circle back around and bite you in the ass, half a decade later, maybe they'll choose their words more carefully.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    PacMan1979 wrote: »
    PacMan1979 wrote: »
    Is there a thread for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comic? I read a recent article about an important characters death, and wanted to get feedback if its worth getting into the series. I loved the turtles as a kid, and own most of the original Eastman and Laird comics.

    I'm really enjoying the series. The main series wanders around a bit sometimes, but the mini-comics focusing on individual characters have been especially good. And I say this as someone with very little nostalgia for the Turtles.

    Thank you! I did more research on it and found out that is published by IDW and they are 44 issues in.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_(IDW_Publishing)

    I look forward to reading some of the mini-comics you mentioned, especially the one about the formation of the original foot clan. It's been a while since I bought comics, is it difficult to collect the back issues on these, or should my local comic store be able to get them? Is obtaining them online a better option? What would you guys recommend?

    Apologies if I'm going off topic. I couldn't find a TMNT thread via the search.

    Comixology has your covered
    for digital. Amazon has the TPBs if you want print.

    And that Foot Clan special is really good.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    PacMan1979 wrote: »
    It helps a lot, thanks so much! I'll start looking at all those options now.

    If you want to take a test drive, Comixology has the first issue of TMNT for free.

    Phillishere on
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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    Munch wrote: »
    Langly wrote: »
    I definitely think the best way we should talk about this is in all caps.

    Because that's what the Internet wants and needs, more shouting.

    Your position basically seems to be, "Meh, move on, what's there to say, why are we even talking about this?"

    Which doesn't leave much room for any kind of talk at all. And I'm not sure you're wrong. This isn't necessarily a productive talk. There's nothing to fix, and the facts are pretty clearly established. But it's an interesting issue, because it's not one I've really seen crop up, before now.

    Sims and Comics Alliance are two entities that made their name calling out people for bad behavior, and championing people in comics who'd been hard done. Suddenly, they're on the other side of that, and I don't think they're handling it as well as you'd expect them to. I mean, you've got Brianna Wu weighing in on this thing, now.

    If nothing else, I think it's worth talking about this stuff, because it may encourage people within comics culture to be more civil, in the future. If people realize that the crap you do and say to other people can circle back around and bite you in the ass, half a decade later, maybe they'll choose their words more carefully.

    I can only say for myself, but I think they have both handled it fine, and the fact that Brianna Wu is calling for a broad boycott of Sims with no real perspective on the event seems to fall in line with what I would expect her to do, regardless of the matter's handling.

    edit: to add to this, I think that the social script that you are required to adhere to in these situations that the internet in general expects and criticizes is overly stringent and primed to make sure that people fumble things up.

    I just think that most of the conversation is a rush to be the maddest and the greatest and it's utterly worthless and toxic. I do think that talking about how people are treated on the internet is an incredibly useful and necessary topic, but every essay I have seen has laser focused on Sims' public apology, who he apologized to first, why did he do that, has he truly changed?

    And none of that is in any way prudent or even anyone's business. He wronged a person. Now that person is being used as a tool for people to bang their drums on.

    I absolutely think what Chris did was wrong. Any conversation about that should be focused on how things have been trending now, how things still need to be changed, and repeat that this was unacceptable five years ago and it's unacceptable now.

    Langly on
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited March 2015
    What Sims did was totally wrong and unacceptable, that goes without saying.

    I am wondering, however, what people want Sims to do now, exactly

    Hounding a guy for an awful thing they did does not undo it and may in fact have the exact same result as Sims' own hounding of D'Orazio which may seem satisfying but is still wrong.

    Like, he literally could not be more sorry about this. He is regretting everything he did, and rightfully so. He's not owed anything except the common decency we should all ideally show each other and yelling at a guy who agrees with you entirely doesn't show that. Sims didn't show that either, what he did was far worse, but people on the internet feel this urge to say shit over and over because they want to stick their oar in.

    Yes, it was awful and he shouldn't have done it and he should feel terrible. Yes, D'Orazio is deserving of our sympathy and support and she does not have to accept any apologies of anyone. Everything involved agree that. You don't want this guy's career to be over. So what the hell do you want here?!?

    Solar on
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    DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    For me, one of the really interesting aspects of this scenario is this: When something like this happens, and a person gets caught in the act and makes a public apology, folks often say "An apology is well and good, and frankly is expected social protocol, but it doesn't really mean anything. The true test will be whether or not they change their ways and don't do Bad Thing X again."

    Well, here's a case where the person who screwed up did change his ways. I don't follow Sims's work or career closely, but it sounds like he's changed his ways some time ago, and has, in fact, been trying to make sure that the behavior he engaged in doesn't go unnoticed anymore. This sounds like the best-case scenario that people hope for, right? But, now that we've got an actual real-life case of this happening, it turns out that it's actually still not enough (at least for some people). So, would they prefer the one-strike-and-you're-out-forever approach?

    Ultimately, I don't think there's a One Right Solution here. Some people think Sims should lose his job. Some think it's terrible what he did, but he's mended his ways, and so doesn't deserve such a harsh punishment. Some people think that there's nothing wrong here at all, carry on carry on. Some people are somewhere in between. I don't really see what Sims, or D'Orazio, or anyone else can do or say that would satisfy all, or even most, of these people. I think the only thing that can come out of all this that's the least bit beneficial is a good-faith conversation where people (1) don't assume that their interlocutor is a lunatic, and give them the benefit of the doubt, but also (2) don't resort to extremes and hyperbole when making their argument or announcing their stance.

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    AtomicTofuAtomicTofu She's a straight-up supervillain, yo Registered User regular
    Brianna Wu also retweeted Laura Hudson's thoughts from above a little later on

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    Lindsay LohanLindsay Lohan Registered User regular
    I think Brianna Wu seems to know as much about the intimate details of the harassment as we do and using her platform to make a statement seems misguided. With that said, I had no idea who she was so my knowledge of her is limited to just what I read on wiki about 10 minutes ago.

    The message that it is sending is we don't give a shit what you do, we don't care what you have become, you are now guilty for life no matter what for this poor behavior and we have passed judgement that you can't have a successful career. That inability to accept that people change and have regrets and can grow seems like a very negative, angry, pessimistic attitude toward other people.

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    GustavGustav Friend of Goats Somewhere in the OzarksRegistered User regular
    Honestly. I think Sims' apology felt pretty genuine and fairly honest. That said I don't know that I feel all that groovy about the guy now. But I'm also not gunna call for his job or what have you. I'd be totally fine if he got dropped from some places. I'd be more fine if he took some real actions in preventing this kind of behavior from other people in the future. And honestly he seems to recognize this more than most parties on either side.

    But the frankly bizarre actions of his colleagues have left some disastrously bad tastes in my mouth.

    While I don't doubt their claims on some GG attack on CA, they took the most baffling means to talk about it. Let's drop a contextless half spoken allusion to these issues in the middle of a reckoning of Chris Sims. I had to reread the thing several damn times, and was still clueless.

    I think at the point it was posted not many were aware that someone was going to release these details ahead of D'Orazio. So at least for me, I wasn't able to understand the third party angle. If you're going to bring it up, at least explain it in full detail. Which yeah without the explanation, that totally makes it look like they are trying to shift themselves into some level of victimhood.

    It took other writers and twitters to put together the GG angle. And by then the CA staff were making all kinds of problematic statements on twitter. Zainab Akhtar's series of tweets on the situation were absolutely spot on.

    It was just so weird to see a lot of the comic progressives play TEAM COMICS.

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    AtomicTofuAtomicTofu She's a straight-up supervillain, yo Registered User regular
    Is it Team Comics or sticking up for a friend? I'm sure most of these people are personal friends of Sims and can't really leave that relationship out of the equation when writing about the whole situation.

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