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Comics News Thread V: All The News Unfit to Print

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Invectivus wrote: »
    Invectivus wrote: »
    Technically, he's not wrong. I'll admit his line about needing MORE is wrong, but he is correct that in history of animation and cartoons, we enjoy looking at images of healthy women and men, and if his fellow artists want to put a sexy or cheesecake flair in their art, so be it. It's their art. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

    Unfortunately professional artists don't have that luxury, and it's not their art when they're getting paid by Marvel, DC, whoever. They're not amateurs putting pics on DeviantArt.

    Uh, yeah, it's still their art, even though Marvel or DC "own" it. It is up to the editor to approve or deny the art. If they don't like the art, the artist either re-draws said page or they edit it in a way to remove said image, or they get a fill in artist to draw the page as the editor sees fit if the original artist is unwilling to do said revision.

    It's easy to blame the artist for drawing something "offensive" if the writer calls for it in his script. It's easy to blame the artist if the editor calls for a cover to be drawn a certain way.

    They did the art, why wouldn't they be responsible? It doesn't matter if they were were ordered to from above, without them art doesn't get made. It's also not like what Manara did was outside his wheelhouse as an artist. Also comic writing varies, artists do have leeway and act as unofficial co-writers, depending on the writer. The Marvel method was based on stories being made where its hard to tell where the writer starts and the artist begins. Them misreading a scene or improvising on their own can be a positive or a negative. Pym wasn't meant to slap Janet, for instance. The artist misread the script the writer gave him and Pym hasn't been the same ever since. Cho can't blame anybody but himself for the backlash he received by trolling Manara opponents. Do we know what the editor's told Manara for the cover? Or did they just hire him to draw Spider-woman and let him decide how to do it?

    edit: There is no quotes over owning the art, that's what Marvel paid for from them. That's literally their job.

    Harry Dresden on
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    AtomicTofuAtomicTofu She's a straight-up supervillain, yo Registered User regular
    Red One is Terry Dodson, not Adam Hughes. His name's right there on the cover! But Dodson works for that example as well.

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    AtomicTofu wrote: »
    Red One is Terry Dodson, not Adam Hughes. His name's right there on the cover! But Dodson works for that example as well.

    Yeah, I mentally interchange them all the time, though Hughes is way more subdued than Dodson. He did the two Spider-Gwen variants right? Mad classy.

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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I wouldn't call Hughes mad classy or particularly more subdued than Dodson, he isn't quite as egregious as Cho on terms of how much of his work is gross and objectifying but I'm surprised to see a bunch of people use him as as positive example

    Did everyone forget
    a59ac706e84dc681fbb001c8324197d4.jpg
    and the statue he did of it?

    CYpGAPn.png
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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I wouldn't call Hughes mad classy or particularly more subdued than Dodson, he isn't quite as egregious as Cho on terms of how much of his work is gross and objectifying but I'm surprised to see a bunch of people use him as as positive example

    Did everyone forget
    a59ac706e84dc681fbb001c8324197d4.jpg
    and the statue he did of it?

    I tend to find Dodson's cheesecake a bit more egregious. And the "mad classy" was about his Spider-Gwen variants.

    Spider_Gwen_Variants.jpg

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I wouldn't call Hughes mad classy or particularly more subdued than Dodson, he isn't quite as egregious as Cho on terms of how much of his work is gross and objectifying but I'm surprised to see a bunch of people use him as as positive example

    Did everyone forget and the statue he did of it?

    to be fair, I don't think that sketch and the statue made from it are very representative of his work

    also I did a little search to see how old it was exactly, and apparently it was from back in 2007

    I found an interesting article about it, and the controversy it generated

    http://www.comicsbeat.com/missed-it-adam-hughes-speaks/
    NRAMA: Has this response led to any changes in your design or release plans?

    AH: We’re not changing any of our plans on the subsequent statues, but we’ve gone through and looked at the other designs to see if we’re doing something that could be misconstrued as sexist or misogynistic.

    that's a pretty good attitude to take towards criticism, I think

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    I'm glad Rob Liefeld wrote that-one, because it needed to be said, and also it's...frankly kind of a relief to see a well-measured response from a comics industry veteran on the Internet these days. Liefeld might need to clarify his point slightly, but I think his line about more artists is more with respect to their character as human beings rather than the preferences of their subject matter.

    On reflection, I also have to concede that Cho was just trolling the hell out of Manara's critics with his Spider-Gwen post for the fun of it, and they really fell for it like an anchor into a bear trap.

    It really didn't need to be said. It's complete bullshit.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Like no one is crucifying people for drawing cheesecake, Jesus.

    There should absolutely be less people like Cho working in mainstream comics. Regardless of the doodle he did that sort of style is absolutely a big part of the toxic nature of the comics industry.

    Talking about healthy looking women is missing the point. And also gross.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    Also i find it hilarious that you're happy that rob liefield of all people agrees with you. If there's one way to know you're on the wrong side of an argument, it's when he's on your side.

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    I'd really appreciate it if we could keep this a bit more civil than that last post.

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I don't think it's the style but the artists direction. When you say style that makes all the others similar to Cho like Dodson, Mahnke, Pacheco, Larocca,even Lee seem guilty simply for the style they have. And I'm sure there are examples here and there of them doing something over the top but on the whole they're good, solid artists who draw nearly everyone in a glamorized fashion.

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    ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    I rarely like cheesecake comics, but for whatever reason, I was a huge fan of J Scott Campbell's Danger Girl series. I tend to not mind cheesecake as long as the female characters themselves are strong female leads

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    Zavian wrote: »
    I rarely like cheesecake comics, but for whatever reason, I was a huge fan of J Scott Campbell's Danger Girl series. I tend to not mind cheesecake as long as the female characters themselves are strong female leads

    I'm actually fine with cheesecake. When Cho was rocking Jungle Girl, all about it. Dodson's Red One? Carry on good sir. Danger Girl was pretty good in it's first run.

    But that doesn't mean the Marvel and DC universes need to lean into it. Again, I think the art and character designs should service the character, same with the writing. I wouldn't want Garth Ennis to steer the future of the Young Avengers for example; this is no different. People are asking, "hey, why don't you put your personal predilections away for a while and respect the character." And the answer from some of these creators, mostly artists I might note, is "they're being mean and stopping us!"

    And the thing is, they know. Here's some old art from Cho, for example.

    e0e0bf717bd1a3bd192837ddfa54cab1.jpg

    They just don't care. And that's fine, but don't try to frame it like people are trying to take your freedoms away. Marvel and DC are chasing a different audience and that audience isn't appreciative of the personal style of some of these artists. That's how business works. The Big Two can just put them on books that dovetail well with their particular artwork. Staying on Cho, he'd probably do a decent out-of-continuity Power Girl mini, even if I wouldn't want him on the current Power Girl proper.

    powergirl-s.jpg






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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I think the cries of censorship or what have you, while wrong, come not from them being called on not wanting to change their styles (which is their right), but also having their character called into question because of how they draw. The facebook post Rodriguez wrote makes this seem much more personal than just styles, and I do get the sense he's shaming these creators as bad people. And I'm sorry, that's a bridge too far, even if I agree with him that context needs to be taken into consideration. It was brought up with the Chris Sims stuff recently but Brian Wood, he actually did harass someone but he seemed to get a pass on it by the comics community. And then Rodriguez writes that he sees Saga in bars that he draws in and sees young people reading it, and I don't know what he means by bars as in bar bars or coffee bars and whatnot, but that's a series that has graphic stuff in it that would be just as offputting once they opened it as any gratuitously cheesecake cover, even if it's not drawn in a cheesecake style.

    And I think, while it's up to them as creators, these artists can show restraint if asked for. From what pops up, J Scott Campbell did two variants for Spider-Gwen. The Midtown Comics one is great, the other one is average and it has nothing to do with the style, just how generic it looks. And Cho, when working on mainstream Marvel books like New Avengers or Mighty Avengers, kept his style rather restrained outside of naked lady Ultron (which could have been fixed with editorial stepping in). He drew Carol like a blonde bombshell but made Sentry look like Fabio, too. At least in Campbell's case, doing a Bing search for his variant covers, his more recent stuff does look more restrained and matured in his style a bit.

    Making art that attracts a wider audience is a part of making comics legitimate these days, but it's not the main thing that's holding the industry back. Getting work out on time from creators who don't treat the industry like it's second fiddle to their dreams of Hollywood stardom, keeping consistent directions, delivering a full story per issue at a price point that demands more than a handful of minutes, and not making things change with the wind or on the fly, that's how the industry can do better. And I think that's why the Image/independent scene has gotten so much better.

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    LanglyLangly Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I think the cries of censorship or what have you, while wrong, come not from them being called on not wanting to change their styles (which is their right), but also having their character called into question because of how they draw. The facebook post Rodriguez wrote makes this seem much more personal than just styles, and I do get the sense he's shaming these creators as bad people. And I'm sorry, that's a bridge too far, even if I agree with him that context needs to be taken into consideration.

    No, it really isn't, because the backlash isn't because of the content or style, it is because of the conversation happening around those styles. Frank Cho did not and does not draw pictures and then say "like what you like, this is but one style and I like drawing this way, but it's valid to want to see different things that are representative of other people"

    He says "people are ruining comics by trying to take out the sex. this picture is making fun of the people who reacted negatively to a specific cover"

    He's not drawing this stuff in a vacuum, it's an ongoing creative and consumer conversation that has more ramifications past "I want to draw boobs and these killjoys won't let me :("

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    So apparently Mike Marts is leaving his position as X-Men editor at Marvel already, which is a crazy fast turnaround.

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Deadline Hollywood is saying he's starting a new comic publisher, Aftershock comics, with former editor Joe Pruett.

    I can't really think of anything Marts did this time around as X-editor that stood out, along with GOTG. It's just a lot of decompressed issues and this big Black Vortex crossover. Maybe his mind was already elsewhere when he jumped from DC.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I think the cries of censorship or what have you, while wrong, come not from them being called on not wanting to change their styles (which is their right), but also having their character called into question because of how they draw.

    That's not what puts their character into question, though it isn't good PR either. It's their history and what they say around that image. This is why Rafael Albuquerque is ok, while Cho is getting raked over the coals.

    edit: Comic writers and artists are celebrities. They don't have luxury of disassociating themselves from their work.
    The facebook post Rodriguez wrote makes this seem much more personal than just styles, and I do get the sense he's shaming these creators as bad people. And I'm sorry, that's a bridge too far, even if I agree with him that context needs to be taken into consideration.

    Agreed.
    It was brought up with the Chris Sims stuff recently but Brian Wood, he actually did harass someone but he seemed to get a pass on it by the comics community. And then Rodriguez writes that he sees Saga in bars that he draws in and sees young people reading it, and I don't know what he means by bars as in bar bars or coffee bars and whatnot, but that's a series that has graphic stuff in it that would be just as offputting once they opened it as any gratuitously cheesecake cover, even if it's not drawn in a cheesecake style.

    Wood was writing X-men - Saga is a comic that is clearly adult in content, independent and obscure. Apples and oranges. Wood's reputation is also not as solid as it used to be, when that news hit it was a huge problem for him to deal with. With the internet now anybody can find it if they want to learn about him.
    And I think, while it's up to them as creators, these artists can show restraint if asked for. From what pops up, J Scott Campbell did two variants for Spider-Gwen. The Midtown Comics one is great, the other one is average and it has nothing to do with the style, just how generic it looks. And Cho, when working on mainstream Marvel books like New Avengers or Mighty Avengers, kept his style rather restrained outside of naked lady Ultron (which could have been fixed with editorial stepping in). He drew Carol like a blonde bombshell but made Sentry look like Fabio, too. At least in Campbell's case, doing a Bing search for his variant covers, his more recent stuff does look more restrained and matured in his style a bit.

    Cho did the unrated Shana the She-Devil series. He's lucky he didn't that now. Cho's been staying under the radar since if he did get on that radar it'd cause a shitstorm with the newer readers Marvel's trying to acquire. That's why his satire pic was so silly, and what did he get out of it? It's not wise to poke a bear like that. Cho drawing naked lady Ultron was a problem with editorial, but I don't recall him ever complaining about being forced to do it. Bendis loved it too. Just because editorial allowed it doesn't mean he gets a free pass, he drew it.

    Campbell isn't doing his reputation any favors by supporting Cho and Liefeld. He's another artist who would be prime material for a dissection by new readers if they saw what he's done in the past. Danger Girl, for instance. I'm glad he's shown restraint, though.
    Making art that attracts a wider audience is a part of making comics legitimate these days, but it's not the main thing that's holding the industry back.

    It is a limitation, though. More eyes are watching these days, which can effect the bottom line.
    Getting work out on time from creators who don't treat the industry like it's second fiddle to their dreams of Hollywood stardom,

    Like who?
    keeping consistent directions, delivering a full story per issue at a price point that demands more than a handful of minutes, and not making things change with the wind or on the fly, that's how the industry can do better. And I think that's why the Image/independent scene has gotten so much better.

    That's how it's been like for years. Sexism in comics is a newer issue the industry needs settled (which it has been it's just gotten in the spotlight), otherwise it'll be added to reasons why the industry isn't thriving. It has a long way to go to be mainstream.

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    Linespider5Linespider5 ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGER Registered User regular
    Sexism in comics has been an issue for at least twenty years. If we're being honest, it's been an issue for a lot longer than that.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    tumblr_mc7plk6zSi1rvvvcqo2_500.jpg

    Avengers #83, December 1970

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Sexism in comics has been an issue for at least twenty years. If we're being honest, it's been an issue for a lot longer than that.

    True, but it's hardly been on the front lines as it were like has been in the last decade or so. It's been an unpleasant background noise that wasn't a big priority for publishers. There were exceptions, now they've been slowly becoming the rule with how to deal with sexism.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    Sexism in comics has been an issue for at least twenty years. If we're being honest, it's been an issue for a lot longer than that.

    True, but it's hardly been on the front lines as it were like has been in the last decade or so. It's been an unpleasant background noise that wasn't a big priority for publishers. There were exceptions, now they've been slowly becoming the rule with how to deal with sexism.

    The issue isn't that sexism is a historical problem for the industry. It is.

    The issue is that comic publishers, movie studios, toy companies and convention organizers have realized that both young girls and adult women are customers who will buy their products and services. The comics industry has talked about bringing in the female audience for years, and now that's actually happened. There's a sizable female audience, many of whom are active in fandom, and the industry wants to keep and expand that audience. Plus, the kids are coming back, after a long period where the average comics fan came from a dwindling audience of middle-aged men.

    So, comics has to clean up its act. The blatant T&A in practically every book is going to get toned down, especially from the major publishers. Official art is going to be more Phil Noto than Frank Cho, and there's going to be less tolerance for artists who specialize in doing porn versions of popular characters. The people who will find a niche for cheesecake are going to be more like Adam Warren than Cho, artists capable of that balance of class, humor and sexuality that can do a nude that doesn't belong in a bodyshop pinup calendar.

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    edited April 2015
    So, comics has to clean up its act. The blatant T&A in practically every book is going to get toned down, especially from the major publishers. Official art is going to be more Phil Noto than Frank Cho, and there's going to be less tolerance for artists who specialize in doing porn versions of popular characters. The people who will find a niche for cheesecake are going to be more like Adam Warren than Cho, artists capable of that balance of class, humor and sexuality that can do a nude that doesn't belong in a bodyshop pinup calendar.

    Those days when Adam Warren would get the occasional Marvel or DC job. I miss them.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Adam Warren's half issue of A+X was pretty darn fun.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    So, comics has to clean up its act. The blatant T&A in practically every book is going to get toned down, especially from the major publishers. Official art is going to be more Phil Noto than Frank Cho, and there's going to be less tolerance for artists who specialize in doing porn versions of popular characters. The people who will find a niche for cheesecake are going to be more like Adam Warren than Cho, artists capable of that balance of class, humor and sexuality that can do a nude that doesn't belong in a bodyshop pinup calendar.

    Those days when Adam Warren would get the occasional Marvel or DC job. I miss them.

    :hydra:

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    So, comics has to clean up its act. The blatant T&A in practically every book is going to get toned down, especially from the major publishers. Official art is going to be more Phil Noto than Frank Cho, and there's going to be less tolerance for artists who specialize in doing porn versions of popular characters. The people who will find a niche for cheesecake are going to be more like Adam Warren than Cho, artists capable of that balance of class, humor and sexuality that can do a nude that doesn't belong in a bodyshop pinup calendar.

    Those days when Adam Warren would get the occasional Marvel or DC job. I miss them.

    Warren's had his own thing going for years. I get the feeling he'll do the occasional Marvel or DC books for fun, but he's largely in the creator-owned business.

    I'm sad that its looking like Gillen, Brubaker and Rucka are going in that direction, as well. While I love their Image books, I miss what they could bring to an established character.

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    Warren's had his own thing going for years. I get the feeling he'll do the occasional Marvel or DC books for fun, but he's largely in the creator-owned business.

    I'm sad that its looking like Gillen, Brubaker and Rucka are going in that direction, as well. While I love their Image books, I miss what they could bring to an established character.

    It's about time. Remember when Hickman was fresh? 2009? That was six years ago. Gillen's around the same time, Rucka and Brubaker are far beyond.

    They were all Marvel Architects right?


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    UltimateInfernoUltimateInferno Registered User regular
    MarvelBlueprint.jpg

    "Ride or Die?" asked Goku

    "Ride or Die" confirmed Dominic Toretto, as they took off to find the Dragon Balls in hopes of reviving their friend Sonic
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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    MarvelBlueprint.jpg

    Bendis? Really?

    Found it.
    ·Brian Michael Bendis, writer of AVENGERS, NEW AVENGERS, Death of Spider-Man, the upcoming MOON KNIGHT and an upcoming top secret project

    ·Matt Fraction, writer of THOR, INVINCIBLE IRON MAN, and a top secret upcoming event

    ·Ed Brubaker, writer of CAPTAIN AMERICA, SECRET AVENGERS and top secret upcoming new series

    ·Jonathan Hickman, writer of FANTASTIC FOUR, S.H.I.E.L.D. and a top secret upcoming new series

    ·Jason Aaron, writer of WOLVERINE, ASTONISHING SPIDER-MAN & WOLVERINE and a top secret upcoming new series

    I feel like Bendis will be there until the wheels fall off. Aaron is probably going to ride out Thor. Fraction is done, Brubaker is done, Hickman will be done.

    Yep, it's about time.

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    HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    It's kind of sad, but the industry is rotating so much great talent through it that I guess I'm not that upset.

    Dennis Hopeless, who is probably most famous for Avengers Arena and to a lesser extent more recently by being saddled with Spider-Woman, was apparently at a recent Marvel retreat along with Jeff Lemire and Gerry Duggan, I think.

    Hopeless and Duggan have surprised me with their work, and I'm excited to see them rise higher. At the same time, as I've said before, it's really weird to see guys just go to Image forever after awhile, when at the same time Paul Levitz is still writing for DC, and older figures from both of the big two occasionally drop back in for one-shots and minis.

    And yeah, Bendis is going to be Marvel's Paul Levitz in 10 years. I can't imagine him leaving Marvel completely, although I could see him eventually dropping back to one or two Marvel titles a month.

    And when Marvel NOW started, Brevoort said Jason Aaron had a Fantastic Four pitch. I'd love to see him stick around, he fits the universe so well.

    Also, my dream is for Hickman to eventually come back and do X-Men or Star Wars.

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    PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    HadjiQuest wrote: »
    It's kind of sad, but the industry is rotating so much great talent through it that I guess I'm not that upset.

    Dennis Hopeless, who is probably most famous for Avengers Arena and to a lesser extent more recently by being saddled with Spider-Woman, was apparently at a recent Marvel retreat along with Jeff Lemire and Gerry Duggan, I think.

    Hopeless and Duggan have surprised me with their work, and I'm excited to see them rise higher. At the same time, as I've said before, it's really weird to see guys just go to Image forever after awhile, when at the same time Paul Levitz is still writing for DC, and older figures from both of the big two occasionally drop back in for one-shots and minis.

    And yeah, Bendis is going to be Marvel's Paul Levitz in 10 years. I can't imagine him leaving Marvel completely, although I could see him eventually dropping back to one or two Marvel titles a month.

    And when Marvel NOW started, Brevoort said Jason Aaron had a Fantastic Four pitch. I'd love to see him stick around, he fits the universe so well.

    Also, my dream is for Hickman to eventually come back and do X-Men or Star Wars.

    Bendis has been going the Jeph Loeb route for awhile. I expect him to either move into editorial or an executive position at Marvel.

    One of the really cool things about Marvel, and something I think is integral to their success, is that it looks like creative talent moves freely between comics, movies, TV, animation, etc. You don't have the weird barriers and creative disdain for the originating properties that artists have to deal with at Warner Brothers.

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    AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    Cho won't let this shit go.

    1429132256853.jpg

    Sigh.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    I get the feeling he's actively hurting his relationship with the big two at this point. I'll be surprised if he gets a job with Marvel or DC in the next few years.

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    Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Cho won't let this shit go.

    1429132256853.jpg

    Sigh.

    facepalm.jpg

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    DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    I think at this point it's probably best to ignore him. Everyone has said their piece on what he's doing, and he's clearly just looking for attention, at this point.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Ty Templeton in ‘critical but stable condition’ after heart attack
    Writer and artist Ty Templeton, known for his work on The Batman Adventures, Batman ’66 Meets Green Hornet and his own Bun Toons, is in a medically induced coma after suffering a heart attack.

    “The plan is to take him off both the sedatives and the ventilator tomorrow,” his wife, colorist and letterer KT Smith, wrote overnight on Facebook. “[…] He is in critical but stable condition. His location will change in the next few days depending on his condition.”

    I hope he has a full recovery.

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    Centipede DamascusCentipede Damascus Registered User regular
    Gerry Conway: Who created Caitlin Snow on The Flash? According to DC Comics, nobody
    Who created Caitlin Snow, the alter ego of Firestorm super-villain Killer Frost, who appears regularly on The Flash?

    According to DC Entertainment, nobody.

    That’s right. Caitlin Snow, the brilliant scientist working for Harrison Wells, fiancée of Ronnie Raymond and friend of Barry Allen, aka The Flash, sprang fully formed into existence without a creator or creators.

    But that’s okay, because, by the logic employed by DC Entertainment, nobody created Barry Allen either.

    Let me explain. See if you can follow me here.

    ...

    Let’s say DC agrees you created a character, like, for example, Killer Frost. In your original creation, Killer Frost had a secret identity named Crystal Frost. Later, a “new” Killer Frost is created for the New 52, and this new Killer Frost has a secret identity named Caitlin Snow.

    You’ll be pleased to hear (I hope) that DC agrees I and Al Milgrom are the co-creators of all manifestations of “Killer Frost.” We are also considered the co-creators of Crystal Frost. And, of course, by the twisted logic that credits Power Girl as a derivation of Superman, Al and I must also be the creators of Killer Frost’s New 52 secret identity, Caitlin Snow.

    Right?

    No. We’re not. And DC insists we are not. And I agree with DC.

    Caitlin Snow was created by Sterling Gates and Derlis Santacruz.

    Except, according to DC Entertainment, she wasn’t. Because she was “derived” from the original creation of Killer Frost.

    Which means Al Milgrom and I created her.

    Except, according to DC Entertainment, we didn’t.

    Nobody created her.

    Or, rather, nobody gets credit and creator equity participation for creating her.

    And that, my friends, is truly obnoxious and despicable.

    I recommend clicking through to read the whole post. It is an amazing description of the worst kind of corporate goosery.

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    M-TeeM-Tee Registered User regular
    Just read that. Had come here to post it, actually. And yes, I agree.

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    TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    This is weird to read, because DC for the longest time was really good about creator rights, far above other companies.

    This is just me pondering, but it's gotta be something permeating from the top down with Diane Nelson. Because Jim Lee for the longest time was the creator-turned-boss who was able to mediate these kinds of things, and Johns seems to be in a position to at least sway some minds to balance out this being a Didio thing (which I don't think it is, but something he'll gladly enforce).

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    hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Forget about the Killer Frost part, POWER GIRL isn't a unique character now? She can have her own goddamned series, but because she's an alternate-world version of the cousin of Superman, they're the same creation? (Or not, but whatever.) What the fuck?! The character's practically as old as I am, and we're supposed to consider her just a Superman-derivative?

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