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Purchasing a Firearm
tech_hunter
MoreSeattleRegistered User regular
MoreSeattleRegistered User regular
So I live down the road from the city shooting range, and I do like guns but have never owned one except for airguns. I am not looking for home defence or to carry just something to take to a range and learn the basics of using and caring for a firearm. I was thinking of maybe a P90 if not that then definately a semi-automatic. Also is it best to go to a gun dealer or one of these Gun and pawn shop places, there are actually quite a lot of them in the dallas area. So any advise would be appreciated.
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Where do you live, Bosnia?
Edit: You can't own automatic weapons, if you live in the U.S. Just an FYI - if you're serious about trying out guns, try a gun shop that has it's own firing range. You can rent weapons, and test them out.
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A P90?? Hell, no. I'm not even sure those are legal, and I'm definitely sure It's a bad choice for a beginner, and for home defense. Start small, like a .22 caliber pistol to start out and practice with. Talk to the guys at the gun range, they may rent out weapons that you can test out yourself.
A .45 is a meaty gun, with a solid kick. Ammo can be a bit pricey though, if money is a concern. I suggest a .22, or if you're feeling brazen, a 9mm to start off. Work your way up to a .45 is my suggestion.
I recently finished building a rifle (FN-FAL), and it was about $800 overall. You can go to a gunshop and look around: a good bolt-action military rifle (Lee Enfield, Mauser, Mosin-Nagant) will run a few hundred dollars. AK47's and SKS's are decent and reliable and would be about $300. Ammunition can get a little expensive: AK, SKS, or Mosin-Nagant surplus ammo would run the cheapest.
Handguns are another story. I've been drooling over a Glock 17 something like that, but it's definitely a little out of my price range for now. A used surplus handgun would probably be a little more reasonable (Makarov or something like that). However, you'll need to check gun owner laws in your area.
As always with firearms, be safe and smart.
The best advice is to find out if the range offers classes and sign up for one. NRA basic pistol or basic rifle would be the way to start. You'll almost certainly have the option of renting a weapon for the firing portion of the class after having had a chance to examine a variety of firearms during the class to get a handle for what you like.
No matter what you decide you want to get, having a .22 LR firearm is a good idea. First, the round has very little recoil so you can focus on learning basics like trigger control. Second, the ammunition is cheap. For the cost of one 9mm Parabellum round, I can get 6 .22 LR rounds. The savings add up. Plus, a good .22 can grow with you. What starts out as a practice gun can later have a scope added onto it for longer range target shooting.
When you do decide to buy something, you should be able to get a lot of help from a local gun shop. Firearms is very much a customer service based business so a decent gun shop can help walk you through things as long as they're not too busy (hint, don't try to shop on a weekend during the final few weeks of hunting season if you don't know exactly what you're looking for).
Edit: Okay, I guess you can ignore that bit about the FN p90. It tends to help to specify manufacturer unless it's a design that multiple manufacturers make.
DEFINITELY get a .22 LR pistol too, .45 ammunition is expensive since the U.S. is really the only nation that uses the round and even that's dwindled a bit so not as much seems to be made. Ruger makes solid stuff, reliable albeit bulky.
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Really, a classic firearm is the Colt 1911 .45 pistol. You can get a Springfield Armory gun for like $400. It's a solid firearm. I've fired just about every pistol round there is and a .22 round is nothing. It can be quite a shock to get used to a .22 pistol then fire a .44 mag revolver. I'd also go to a really well known gun shop (call your local NRA office, they'd help you). Gun dealers know their stuff and are usually experts on the subject matter so they should help you out exactly. Every gun store I've been to the guys behind the counter are more like trusted experts then salesmen. Signing up for the NRA classes is a great idea too, they are a very good organization and have top-notch courses.
In terms of home defence, I don't think it's necessarily likely that you have to worry about penetrating body armor. In fact I'd say that it's a somewhat unlikely scenario that you'd encounter an armed robber wearing armor, and if he's not wearing armor, just keep shooting. If he manages to stay on his feet after taking one round in the chest/gut (he won't), he's not going to stay on his feet after the second or third, and when you're holding a weapon with very little kick, it's a whole lot easier to place those shots on target.
In terms of pure home defence though, it's hard to argue in favor of just about anything over a shotgun. But I get the vibe that this is also about going to the range to fire a few rounds for fun, and a pistol would definitely suffice if that's a want.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
There's a lot of 1911s made by different companies so it's not like it has to be a surplus. However, as much as I adore mine I wouldn't recommend one for a beginner either both for ammunition costs and the fact that there are models made by a lot of different companies. The choices can be overwhelming for a beginner, in addition to the way some of them can be finicky until broken in (though there are some quality and reliable out of the box ones for a relatively low cost available).
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I'm personally a much bigger fan of handguns than rifles, and I've owned one of these for years. For actual defense, I carry a 9mm, but anytime it's target-shooting, it's the .22.
I'm also coming from the perspective that in Alaska, small-caliber guns are rarely carried as large handguns are usually anti-bear defense for anyone that spends any amount of time in the bush. Just about every hiker/fisherman packs a .44 or the new .500 so you get used to them.
It was probably a Colt 1911A1, which was the side arm for our military from the WWI era until the 80's or 90's. A lot of companies make 1911s now and they range from a few hundred bucks to over 2k for a custom pistol, from reliable combat pistols to more finicky target pistols. It may easily be the most popular handgun design in the world today.
You're not off the mark with noting that going from a .22 to something else has a learning curve. That's where I am right now since I'm still fairly new to marksmanship and don't get much time with my firearms since I'm normally on campus. But most people are probably better off learning good aiming and trigger control separately from acclimating themself to recoil.
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Yea dude, I'd get you a solid .22. But if you really want a firearm like your dad had, the 1911 is pretty much the best pistol ever made, in my opinion.
Just, be ready to drop a bit on the ammo. I still have the .22 and will fire maybe two boxes of ammo when I go camping/tailgating/whatever while I'll only shoot maybe two dozen or so shots with the shotgun/other stuff. Keep that mind.
But frankly anyone who shoots pistols should own at least one .22. They are just so easy and fun and cheap to shoot, and there are lots of things about shooting that you can learn while shooting the .22 for a lot less money spent on ammo. If you want a semi-auto .22 pistol, the Browning Buckmark series are quite nice.
P.S. You can legally own an automatic weapon in the US, the guy who said otherwise doesn't know what he's talking about. But it has to have been made prior to 1986 and you have to:
Be 21
Live in the correct state (probably any right to carry state would be fine)
Have a clean record
Spend a lot of money ($10,000+ for pretty much any full auto other than a Mac 10)
Fill out a lot of paperwork
Wait 6+ months
If you plan on trying rifles in the near future, do not buy a SKS or AK-47, they are both very inaccurate and generally useless besides to make a lot of noise. Durability doesn't really matter much when you don't plan on running through the bush with it, which you won't do if you are target shooting.
And to brag, I'm getting a .40 S&W Walthers P99, with holster, dies and magazines in the near future for $850 Canadian
I like to disagree with this statement. My actual first gun was an Romanian WASR-10 Ak-47 and it is a great gun to shoot. It can be very accurate in the right hands and after quite a bit of practice, I am pretty damn accurate and can get a tight grouping easily within 50 yards and relatively tight within 100 just off of iron sights.
Now sure albeit, they aren't accurate as to say hunting rifles or the like, but as an assault weapon and a rifle, don't count out the AK.
Now going on what other people have said, even though my first weapon was one people stated as "DON'T GET AN AK FOR A FIRST WEAPON", I highly suggest a Ruger .22LR as I have one now. Echoing others, cheap to shoot, accurate and good for just target practice.
Second rule of Teacher Club: You DO NOT touch the kids.
1) start with a .22, pistol or rifle, learn to clean, safely use, maintain, and store this gun before you buy it
2) use a gun before you buy it
3) DO NOT BASE YOUR WANTS ON FRIVOLOUS NEEDS TO SPEND YOUR MONEY
I mean, my god, have some maturity
He wants a Ruger P90 pistol not an FN P90 like in Counterstrike.
That's about all I've got to add to this thread.
Even though we have learned the OP doesnt want a FNP90, I am almost 100% positive you are wrong about not being able to own automatic weapons in the US.
In fact, Im pretty sure these lovely fellows put this application there for a reason
Unless you actually want to have a good time your gun. In this case, the .22 and 9mm are the right picks.
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It's wonderful.
It fires a massive and expensive 7.62x54r, but with the $100 price-tag on the rifle, you'll put a thousand rounds through it before the ammo cost catches up with that of, say, a .22. And it's so much more satisfying than a .22 as well - a nice hearty boom, kicking back into your shoulder.
The only thing that can be slightly frustrating about it is that sometimes, especially the first time that you take it out, you'll have some problems with the bolt jamming, but that problem gets taken care of quickly.
I'd at least give the bolt-action some thought - I personally think it's a lot more fun to shoot than a semi-auto.
You might want to consider a dirt cheap .22 semi-auto to fire hundreds or thousands of rounds through for very little money (for the pistol and ammo) just to get a feel for things, but get ready to pick up a 9mm for your first "real" gun fairly soon after. There are a number of companies who make a 1911 in 9mm which will give you a good gun (kinda good to very good depending on the price) with cheap ammo. I've heard a lot of the pistol guys say to never start with anything bigger than 9mm as you will almost certainly develop bad habits and start compensating for them instead of learning how to shoot properly in the first place.
Make sure to read a few reviews before you pick up anything that costs over $150. There are good cheap guns and crappy mid-range guns.
When you pick up a rifle, I'd suggest a .22 LR again. You can go cheap or spend a few extra bucks to pick up a Ruger 10/22 which you can easily modify to suit your tastes and keep using all your life. Once you step up to something bigger, stay away from the magnum rounds as many people have a lot of trouble shooting them, though most people won't admit it. If you can find something in a milsurp (military surplus) caliber such as 7.62x51 (.308 Winchester) and don't get the cheapest thing you can find, you'll almost certainly have an accurate rifle with cheap ammo with which you can hunt most animals in North America just by switching to regular bullets. I picked up an SKS mainly to fire something with really cheap milsurp ammunition (7.62x39) that still has a bit of a kick, but unless I do a bunch of work and spend some cash it will never be all that accurate. Here's a link that gives you an idea http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/wolffsksspring/index.asp. Keep in mind 50 yards isn't very far for a rifle.
Also, as for the kick of rifle cartridges, take a look at http://www.accuratereloading.com/recoil.html. 40 rounds of 160 grain .308 Win will leave a small mark on my shoulder the next day. I can understand why people will flinch pretty badly when expecting a the recoil of a 300 Win mag.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
The .22 or the 9mm are your best bet for learning how to shoot, either beginner or intermediate. However, if you want to have a pistol that you keep and can use (with more stopping power), the 9mm is preferrable. If you like, you can hit me up with a PM and I can chat with you privately about what kind of gun shops you can go to in Dallas and the rest of Texas.
p.s. Where in Dallas are you anyway?
But as soon as you've gained experience (and are ready to drop a little green) get yourself a 1911. The best pistol ever made. Period.
"The 1911 was the design given by God to us through John M. Browning that represents the epitome of what a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and is true now." Colonel Robert J. Coates, USMC
PS. You can legally own a fully automatic weapon in the US as well as supressors. All it takes is a shitload of cash and several forms filled out for your local ATF office.
$4 for a box of 20 bigass rifle rounds isn't that expensive. That's the going rate around here for a box of Surplus Czech Silver Tip. Also, using a chamber brush to remove ALL of the gunk they pack it with will get rid of the problem of the sticky bolt.
It's a fun rifle, especially for the sub-$100 price range.
It depends on the State as well. Washington (where I live) doesn't allow you to own any automatic firearms or use a suppressor.
This is true.
Another reason why everyone should live in Texas. 'Cept fer you "librals".
Washington State has more liberal gun laws than most. When it comes to concealed permits, we are a "shall issue" state, and it doesn't require any certification.
Most states are that way now actually, with 36 of them doing it and Vermont and Alaska not requiring permits. Sucks for those of us in the 12 that still are holding out though. I'm not legally allowed to stop for gas or a bathroom break when transporting a handgun locked in the trunk of my car in my state.
Anyway, back to the topic on hand, here's another fan of the 1911. My hands are a bit smaller than average so it's tough to find a .45 pistol that actually fits me since the trend is for double stack magazines (ie, two columns of bullets stacked against each other) but the 1911's single stack design makes it fit like a glove.
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I'm sorry, Doc, I can't hear you over all this gun fire. Let me attach my surpressor that I own here in Virginia.
I'm not a fan of the 1911 as a defense pistol. 7 rounds is good, but I'd rather sacrifice .1 inch in diameter for over twice as many bullets.
A lot of people say, "Oh, but HRT and Delta and SpecOps guys use 1911s!" But they also use M4a1's. If they are using their pistol, its cause their primary is down. If your primary is down, and you need more than 7 shots, you're boned anyways, I'd imagine.
In conclusion, real men buy Glocks.
Many 1911 magazines are 8+1. Mine are.
You can buy a suppressor in WA. You just aren't supposed to use it.
Mine is 13+1.
Seriously, I'm not going to go all "one shot one kill", but if you can't hit/drive off whatever you need to with that (and its home defense), what the hell dude.