They keep saying you can build your character any way you want but in the back of my mind, I can't help but wonder how long it's going to take before people start getting pissed at the mage in the group wielding a great sword or the rogue running around with a staff.
It shouldn't be a problem since the encounters are based on execution and not what skills/stats you have min-maxed.
Are you saying that skill choices have no impact on the game? Because otherwise this is baloney. If you do more damage, you will not have to "execute" the encounter properly for as long, and so it becomes easier. If you do less damage, the encounter will take longer, and so will be more difficult. Unless your skill choices do not actually impact your ability to perform roles in an encounter, they will absolutely have an impact on the difficulty of said encounter.
You should probably read what I was replying to before posting.
Its pretty obvious that more damage means shorter encounter.
Being a tank means having points in heavy armor and a taunt. That's it. Being a healer means having points in resto staff and some mana regen. That's it. Being DPS means equipping just about anything other than resto staff and sword/shield.
Dr Chaos was talking about mages wielding great swords and rogues using staffs. That stuff will work just fine in the game because execution is what matters. No one was even talking about whether or not more damage would matter or not.
You also get more skill points than you need. So swapping to your best DPS abilities would be a no brainer... however if for some dumb reason someone didn't want to, it wouldn't cause the encounters to be unbeatable.
You should probably read what you were replying to before posting. At no point was Dr. Chaos speculating about making an encounter impossible because of being specced wrong. He was speculating about players getting pissy at the healer for not taking the Super Ultra Mega Heal 7 skill over the Slightly Better Dance Moves skill. Saying "it will still be completable" doesn't matter so long as there is the perception of other players making suboptimal decisions which then impacts your experience, and if your decisions do impact your performance, then there will be the perception that any choices that deviate from the generally-accepted best choices is wrong, and players who don't follow that won't be accepted for any organized group play.
This means that being a tank means you are using heavy armor, taunt, a shield, 1h mace, and an assorted list of every single skill vaguely relevant to tanking, and without every single one of those, you won't be tanking.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
Though, thinking about it, I haven't even really heard of any sort of organized group content besides PvP, so I dunno if that's even going to be much of an issue anyway?
This downloader is PAINFUL! I haven't seen <1mB/s in years until this.
I'm assuming their servers get hammered in the evenings. I was getting close to 3MB/s in the early afternoon (eastern).
Pausing and unpausing the download every time it dropped below 1mB/s seemed to speed things up. It would rocket back up to 6mB/s and stay there for a few minutes before going back down... repeat until completion.
But it's finally done. And now I can go to bed in preparation for my half day tomorrow.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
They keep saying you can build your character any way you want but in the back of my mind, I can't help but wonder how long it's going to take before people start getting pissed at the mage in the group wielding a great sword or the rogue running around with a staff.
It shouldn't be a problem since the encounters are based on execution and not what skills/stats you have min-maxed.
Are you saying that skill choices have no impact on the game? Because otherwise this is baloney. If you do more damage, you will not have to "execute" the encounter properly for as long, and so it becomes easier. If you do less damage, the encounter will take longer, and so will be more difficult. Unless your skill choices do not actually impact your ability to perform roles in an encounter, they will absolutely have an impact on the difficulty of said encounter.
You should probably read what I was replying to before posting.
Its pretty obvious that more damage means shorter encounter.
Being a tank means having points in heavy armor and a taunt. That's it. Being a healer means having points in resto staff and some mana regen. That's it. Being DPS means equipping just about anything other than resto staff and sword/shield.
Dr Chaos was talking about mages wielding great swords and rogues using staffs. That stuff will work just fine in the game because execution is what matters. No one was even talking about whether or not more damage would matter or not.
You also get more skill points than you need. So swapping to your best DPS abilities would be a no brainer... however if for some dumb reason someone didn't want to, it wouldn't cause the encounters to be unbeatable.
You should probably read what you were replying to before posting. At no point was Dr. Chaos speculating about making an encounter impossible because of being specced wrong. He was speculating about players getting pissy at the healer for not taking the Super Ultra Mega Heal 7 skill over the Slightly Better Dance Moves skill. Saying "it will still be completable" doesn't matter so long as there is the perception of other players making suboptimal decisions which then impacts your experience, and if your decisions do impact your performance, then there will be the perception that any choices that deviate from the generally-accepted best choices is wrong, and players who don't follow that won't be accepted for any organized group play.
This means that being a tank means you are using heavy armor, taunt, a shield, 1h mace, and an assorted list of every single skill vaguely relevant to tanking, and without every single one of those, you won't be tanking.
Yup. Your average MMO player has no patience for non-cookie cutter builds. In their minds, unless you're following the "best" build that some YouTube celebrity uses, you're not playing right.
TESO will be no different... you just have to find a guild of players that aren't totally populated by sheep that will accept an unconventional build if you choose to have one.
They keep saying you can build your character any way you want but in the back of my mind, I can't help but wonder how long it's going to take before people start getting pissed at the mage in the group wielding a great sword or the rogue running around with a staff.
It shouldn't be a problem since the encounters are based on execution and not what skills/stats you have min-maxed.
Are you saying that skill choices have no impact on the game? Because otherwise this is baloney. If you do more damage, you will not have to "execute" the encounter properly for as long, and so it becomes easier. If you do less damage, the encounter will take longer, and so will be more difficult. Unless your skill choices do not actually impact your ability to perform roles in an encounter, they will absolutely have an impact on the difficulty of said encounter.
You should probably read what I was replying to before posting.
Its pretty obvious that more damage means shorter encounter.
Being a tank means having points in heavy armor and a taunt. That's it. Being a healer means having points in resto staff and some mana regen. That's it. Being DPS means equipping just about anything other than resto staff and sword/shield.
Dr Chaos was talking about mages wielding great swords and rogues using staffs. That stuff will work just fine in the game because execution is what matters. No one was even talking about whether or not more damage would matter or not.
You also get more skill points than you need. So swapping to your best DPS abilities would be a no brainer... however if for some dumb reason someone didn't want to, it wouldn't cause the encounters to be unbeatable.
You should probably read what you were replying to before posting. At no point was Dr. Chaos speculating about making an encounter impossible because of being specced wrong. He was speculating about players getting pissy at the healer for not taking the Super Ultra Mega Heal 7 skill over the Slightly Better Dance Moves skill. Saying "it will still be completable" doesn't matter so long as there is the perception of other players making suboptimal decisions which then impacts your experience, and if your decisions do impact your performance, then there will be the perception that any choices that deviate from the generally-accepted best choices is wrong, and players who don't follow that won't be accepted for any organized group play.
This means that being a tank means you are using heavy armor, taunt, a shield, 1h mace, and an assorted list of every single skill vaguely relevant to tanking, and without every single one of those, you won't be tanking.
Yup. Your average MMO player has no patience for non-cookie cutter builds. In their minds, unless you're following the "best" build that some YouTube celebrity uses, you're not playing right.
TESO will be no different... you just have to find a guild of players that aren't totally populated by sheep that will accept an unconventional build if you choose to have one.
While definitely true, I feel like ESO doesn't promote this as you don't see a ton of numbers pop up everywhere and with the skills being how they are. I mean people will still come up with the "BEST BUILD!!!" but I think it won't be quite as bad as other MMOs. Or at the very least other builds will still be viable and used.
They keep saying you can build your character any way you want but in the back of my mind, I can't help but wonder how long it's going to take before people start getting pissed at the mage in the group wielding a great sword or the rogue running around with a staff.
It shouldn't be a problem since the encounters are based on execution and not what skills/stats you have min-maxed.
Are you saying that skill choices have no impact on the game? Because otherwise this is baloney. If you do more damage, you will not have to "execute" the encounter properly for as long, and so it becomes easier. If you do less damage, the encounter will take longer, and so will be more difficult. Unless your skill choices do not actually impact your ability to perform roles in an encounter, they will absolutely have an impact on the difficulty of said encounter.
You should probably read what I was replying to before posting.
Its pretty obvious that more damage means shorter encounter.
Being a tank means having points in heavy armor and a taunt. That's it. Being a healer means having points in resto staff and some mana regen. That's it. Being DPS means equipping just about anything other than resto staff and sword/shield.
Dr Chaos was talking about mages wielding great swords and rogues using staffs. That stuff will work just fine in the game because execution is what matters. No one was even talking about whether or not more damage would matter or not.
You also get more skill points than you need. So swapping to your best DPS abilities would be a no brainer... however if for some dumb reason someone didn't want to, it wouldn't cause the encounters to be unbeatable.
You should probably read what you were replying to before posting. At no point was Dr. Chaos speculating about making an encounter impossible because of being specced wrong. He was speculating about players getting pissy at the healer for not taking the Super Ultra Mega Heal 7 skill over the Slightly Better Dance Moves skill. Saying "it will still be completable" doesn't matter so long as there is the perception of other players making suboptimal decisions which then impacts your experience, and if your decisions do impact your performance, then there will be the perception that any choices that deviate from the generally-accepted best choices is wrong, and players who don't follow that won't be accepted for any organized group play.
This means that being a tank means you are using heavy armor, taunt, a shield, 1h mace, and an assorted list of every single skill vaguely relevant to tanking, and without every single one of those, you won't be tanking.
Yup. Your average MMO player has no patience for non-cookie cutter builds. In their minds, unless you're following the "best" build that some YouTube celebrity uses, you're not playing right.
TESO will be no different... you just have to find a guild of players that aren't totally populated by sheep that will accept an unconventional build if you choose to have one.
While definitely true, I feel like ESO doesn't promote this as you don't see a ton of numbers pop up everywhere and with the skills being how they are. I mean people will still come up with the "BEST BUILD!!!" but I think it won't be quite as bad as other MMOs. Or at the very least other builds will still be viable and used.
It honestly doesn't matter. Google any RPG (single or multi) that lets you customize your character build and you'll see dozens of results of "What is the best build for X?"
Ultima Online back in 1997 had this bullcrap attitude too despite there being no raiding AND you truly couldn't tell what skills people had unless they told you. People would still snicker at others who didn't use one of the popular templates.
Anyone who's played any competitive games for any length of time that allows for team switching could have told you that free server transfers in a PvP game where your team is your server was a recipe for disaster.
If you want competition in a PvP game, you can't allow bandwagon jumping whatsoever. If you want to change factions, you should be forced to make a new character. You have to build the game in such a way it encourages people to have "home team pride". If your home team can be changed at the click of a button, this will never happen.
People really don't seem to understand how this megaserver/campaign system works.
Some builds are gonna be better than others amigos. It's the way of the world. People may not have figured out the best ones yet, but they will once the game comes out for real.
Part of what contributes to the bile thrown towards sub-optimal build is that often the people you're playing with aren't your friends. They're random dudes who perceive themselves as doing their best (even if it's not the case), and they want to get their stuff done as quickly as possible. They've got other stuff to do, they paid for access to the game, they want to grab hold of all the content they can, and then this ASSHOLE is here doing his FANCY-PANTS THING just shitting all over the place and SLOWING THEM DOWN.
Right or wrong, that's the idea that comes into the head. Everyone is supposed to be doing their best, and if you're using the mathematically best you give the appearance of trying, which can appease them.
Some builds are gonna be better than others amigos. It's the way of the world. People may not have figured out the best ones yet, but they will once the game comes out for real.
I'm far more afraid of the alternative - that builds aren't going to matter.
Having said that, are they actually going to give a reason to not use Heavy Armor?
And what kind of crafting does ESO have? Anyone fiddle with that yet?
Edit: Just so I know I'm not screwed - when trying to logon with the beta not in session, it says your login info is bad, right?
Edit2: Nope. Huh. Logged out of website, can't log back in. Reset password, it took the new one, but won't let me log in with it. Think their website might be screwed up?
Some builds are gonna be better than others amigos. It's the way of the world. People may not have figured out the best ones yet, but they will once the game comes out for real.
I'm far more afraid of the alternative - that builds aren't going to matter.
Having said that, are they actually going to give a reason to not use Heavy Armor?
And what kind of crafting does ESO have? Anyone fiddle with that yet?
Edit: Just so I know I'm not screwed - when trying to logon with the beta not in session, it says your login info is bad, right?
Edit2: Nope. Huh. Logged out of website, can't log back in. Reset password, it took the new one, but won't let me log in with it. Think their website might be screwed up?
If I remember correctly, the different armors give you a bonus to health, mana or stamina regeneration depending on how much you're wearing.
Xbox Live, PSN & Origin: Vacorsis 3DS: 2638-0037-166
Keep in mind that armor, just like in other ES games, has a skill line, and so just like weapons, armor will have bonuses/passives, and I think at least one active ability. Sure, you could be a mage in heavy armor, but that means you're not getting any use of the skills tied to light armor which are all magicka-oriented. Take a look at the skill calculator I linked earlier, and you'll see what I mean.
edit: Speaking of builds, from what I can tell, there's no doubt that there will be a "best build" for each class/weapon, and some about the combinations thereof. I'm sure the hardcore types will flock to this stuff. But the game is intended to not require whatever these best builds might be, so long as the players are playing skillfully, and have the minimum abilities needed (ie, someone can heal, and someone can tank). For whoever asked, yes, there is non-PvP group content in the form of dungeons (like most MMOs) and the dark anchor/world boss fights, which will require groups as well. I don't think they've said anything about "raid" content though.
They keep saying you can build your character any way you want but in the back of my mind, I can't help but wonder how long it's going to take before people start getting pissed at the mage in the group wielding a great sword or the rogue running around with a staff.
It shouldn't be a problem since the encounters are based on execution and not what skills/stats you have min-maxed.
Are you saying that skill choices have no impact on the game? Because otherwise this is baloney. If you do more damage, you will not have to "execute" the encounter properly for as long, and so it becomes easier. If you do less damage, the encounter will take longer, and so will be more difficult. Unless your skill choices do not actually impact your ability to perform roles in an encounter, they will absolutely have an impact on the difficulty of said encounter.
You should probably read what I was replying to before posting.
Its pretty obvious that more damage means shorter encounter.
Being a tank means having points in heavy armor and a taunt. That's it. Being a healer means having points in resto staff and some mana regen. That's it. Being DPS means equipping just about anything other than resto staff and sword/shield.
Dr Chaos was talking about mages wielding great swords and rogues using staffs. That stuff will work just fine in the game because execution is what matters. No one was even talking about whether or not more damage would matter or not.
You also get more skill points than you need. So swapping to your best DPS abilities would be a no brainer... however if for some dumb reason someone didn't want to, it wouldn't cause the encounters to be unbeatable.
You should probably read what you were replying to before posting. At no point was Dr. Chaos speculating about making an encounter impossible because of being specced wrong. He was speculating about players getting pissy at the healer for not taking the Super Ultra Mega Heal 7 skill over the Slightly Better Dance Moves skill. Saying "it will still be completable" doesn't matter so long as there is the perception of other players making suboptimal decisions which then impacts your experience, and if your decisions do impact your performance, then there will be the perception that any choices that deviate from the generally-accepted best choices is wrong, and players who don't follow that won't be accepted for any organized group play.
This means that being a tank means you are using heavy armor, taunt, a shield, 1h mace, and an assorted list of every single skill vaguely relevant to tanking, and without every single one of those, you won't be tanking.
The skillset is way to limited to worry about things like that though.
I was simply trying to point out to him that builds like a greatsword wielding mage is totally viable... its probably one of the better DPS classes with the mana regen and harder hitting normal attacks.
You attributed what I said to min-maxing and how more DPS = shorter encounter. Which again, was not what I was talking about.
So I looked at that skill calculator and it really seems that they are steering healers towards light armor and restoration staff. Would a heavy armor two handed mace or mace/shield healer be viable?
Anyone want to party up with me playing that spec?
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
Yup. Your average MMO player has no patience for non-cookie cutter builds. In their minds, unless you're following the "best" build that some YouTube celebrity uses, you're not playing right.
TESO will be no different... you just have to find a guild of players that aren't totally populated by sheep that will accept an unconventional build if you choose to have one.
There are no damage numbers that can be used to parse or call someone out though. Sure an encounter might take longer, but no single DPS can be called out since there are no numbers. If someone gets hit by the same mechanic everytime that causes a wipe, that CAN be pointed out. I don't think you can inspect other players as well, but I will have to check.
TESO will be different, the diversity of how you can build your character is just to much. One of the first things I look for in an MMO is how my character advances, what stats I can effect and what skills I can choose. I look to see if these choices are really just picking between the obvious shitty skills/stats and the good ones. Too many MMOs I have played where my character options are just a process of filtering out the "bad" options. I'm just not seeing bad options in ESO, mainly because there are no cooldowns and everything is tied to stamina and mana.
I'm also not saying that someone can't make a bad build, just that there is less impact on gameplay if someone isn't min-maxed to the nth degree and content will become impossible.
Also who fucking cares if some random person sees only a few viable builds in this game... its been like that in every MMO, and I can assure you its a vocal minority that can easily be avoided. Hell I personally don't avoid them, I just show up, do my thing and never really had a problem. No need to worry about some guy in LFG chat asking for <overgeared> <class> with <eleventy billion DPS> and <gearcheck> or kick... people like that are typically shitty players anyway.
Unless that guy is every guild doing end game content...which he is.
Teso wont be any different, there will always be a build that will come out on top. It's best to go in prepared for that then hit end game with your two-handed mage or whatever and find every group shunning you.
So many problems can be solved by playing with friends.
Yes.
But I love to PUG, meet new players, see different things. I came to terms a LONG time ago that MMOs have a very large amount of bad players. If I end up grouping with one, then I enjoy seeing how much of their slack I can pick up and challenge myself. I love to be that one dude that solo's the last 10% of a boss because I think outside the box. You make friends this way and sometimes those "bad PUGs" are very open to suggestions after you don't immediately make a deal out of their shortcomings.
Every MMO thread, every few pages, someone will be bitching about how they met a bad player that was the "OMG WORST PUG EVER". Usually the same person is someone who also complains about how people only accept those "cookie cutter builds" and shit. Its an interesting circle of silliness.
Unless that guy is every guild doing end game content...which he is.
This is just wrong. Our guild in FF14 is doing endgame content and most of us in my group make tons of jokes about how little min-maxing matters and we have all the endgame content farmed weekly. I can think of many tweaks and changes to my gear that would turn my tank into the "cookie cutter, best in slot" geared tank... but end of the day, avoiding the red circles and picking up the adds is literally all that matters.
If people wanna clear stuff first and have every single advantage they can possibly have, then sure they can be in guilds that demand the absolute best everything. But that's and old way of thinking since things are becoming more and more execution based and less based on stats and specs.
So I looked at that skill calculator and it really seems that they are steering healers towards light armor and restoration staff. Would a heavy armor two handed mace or mace/shield healer be viable?
Anyone want to party up with me playing that spec?
I think you need resto staff to fully group heal and decent magicka regen. I think it might depend on the content though.
The stuff I have read on people doing the dungeons in the game has all been about how the mechanics had to be executed perfectly and never about what roles and skills they took with.
If you don't have resto staff, then templar is the only other major healing. They have an entire tree of healing skills, so I would assume that is the other viable way to heal without resto staff equipped.
I played templar in beta mainly and I was able to be a tank/self-healer very well.
So I looked at that skill calculator and it really seems that they are steering healers towards light armor and restoration staff. Would a heavy armor two handed mace or mace/shield healer be viable?
Anyone want to party up with me playing that spec?
I think you need resto staff to fully group heal and decent magicka regen. I think it might depend on the content though.
The stuff I have read on people doing the dungeons in the game has all been about how the mechanics had to be executed perfectly and never about what roles and skills they took with.
If you don't have resto staff, then templar is the only other major healing. They have an entire tree of healing skills, so I would assume that is the other viable way to heal without resto staff equipped.
I played templar in beta mainly and I was able to be a tank/self-healer very well.
Yeah, I was planning on Templar. And given that you can only equip so many skills in a load out... ehh, I will try it out in the beta this weekend.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
I'm assuming dual daggers are out of the question.
If you have the mana regen to support templar heals, they look pretty good. I think what people noticed was that resto staff was more mana efficient. So any class that wants to be a healer can just equip a resto staff and put a few skill points into its skills.
With such a small skillset at any given time, swapping to a healer is as quick as just changing a few skills.
Since you can weapon swap as well in-combat. Someone could very easily be a dagger wielding thief in high mana regen cloth armor, then swap to resto staff for full on healing when needed.
Sorcerer, under Daedric Summoning. Bound Armor, use a sword+shield(Sadly seems to be the only option for a taunt) and obviously a few other skills and you've got a tanking mage who might not need very much heavy armor.
All this talk of super customizable builds makes me think fondly of Asheron's Call... but the focus on PVP actually reminded me that Shadowbane was a thing. Am I the only one who thought of Shadowbane when hearing some of the TESO stuff? Probably? Hm.
Unless that guy is every guild doing end game content...which he is.
This is just wrong. Our guild in FF14 is doing endgame content and most of us in my group make tons of jokes about how little min-maxing matters and we have all the endgame content farmed weekly. I can think of many tweaks and changes to my gear that would turn my tank into the "cookie cutter, best in slot" geared tank... but end of the day, avoiding the red circles and picking up the adds is literally all that matters.
If people wanna clear stuff first and have every single advantage they can possibly have, then sure they can be in guilds that demand the absolute best everything. But that's and old way of thinking since things are becoming more and more execution based and less based on stats and specs.
To be fair - FFXIV does not have a lot of room for build customization.
Unless that guy is every guild doing end game content...which he is.
This is just wrong. Our guild in FF14 is doing endgame content and most of us in my group make tons of jokes about how little min-maxing matters and we have all the endgame content farmed weekly. I can think of many tweaks and changes to my gear that would turn my tank into the "cookie cutter, best in slot" geared tank... but end of the day, avoiding the red circles and picking up the adds is literally all that matters.
If people wanna clear stuff first and have every single advantage they can possibly have, then sure they can be in guilds that demand the absolute best everything. But that's and old way of thinking since things are becoming more and more execution based and less based on stats and specs.
To be fair - FFXIV does not have a lot of room for build customization.
Oh I totally agree. It has some of the most shallow customization I've seen.
But there are still people spending TONS of time min-maxing and getting "best in slot" gear for what they think makes a difference. We didn't beat twintania because I hit the next parry/block tier or someone managed 20 more DPS... we killed her cause we picked got the snake transition down and dodged twisters.
A game where there's no way to parse the damage numbers to spreadsheet the best build, and where if a guy who loved playing a multiclass fighter/mage in D&D gets to throw a 2 handed sword on and shoot fireballs or whatever is definitely something to be appreciated.
That kind of game isn't for everybody, because some people take great joy from the theorycrafting and min/maxing you can get from games that give you access to all the nuts and bolts.
I got an email earlier this week with a beta key so I will also be checking out the game firsthand this weekend if I get the time and the server is working as I know it's a stress test.
Sorcerer, under Daedric Summoning. Bound Armor, use a sword+shield(Sadly seems to be the only option for a taunt) and obviously a few other skills and you've got a tanking mage who might not need very much heavy armor.
I remember when they announced anyone can spec into being a "pet" class that I got the visions of "pet class offtank" or "pet class healer" dancing in my head.
Chances are though, I'll end up trying to recreate 2 Age of Conan classes, the Dark Templar and my glorious, glorious Bear Shaman.
A game where there's no way to parse the damage numbers to spreadsheet the best build, and where if a guy who loved playing a multiclass fighter/mage in D&D gets to throw a 2 handed sword on and shoot fireballs or whatever is definitely something to be appreciated.
That kind of game isn't for everybody, because some people take great joy from the theorycrafting and min/maxing you can get from games that give you access to all the nuts and bolts.
I got an email earlier this week with a beta key so I will also be checking out the game firsthand this weekend if I get the time and the server is working as I know it's a stress test.
Ya I dont really have high hopes for this beta since it is stress test oriented. I'll probably fiddle around with it, but not dedicate my entire weekend to it like the last two. Also Bravely Default is out today.
So is there an easy way to tell while making a character what abilities the different classes have that are unique to them? I know many skills are just tied to weapons and all that, but I mean how to know which actual class you want to choose?
Each class has three "trees" with 5 abilities and 1 ultimate. Sorcerer has some pet stuff and lots of DD. Templar has healing, some blocking/aggro stuff, and some good DD stuff. Dragonknight seems similar, but with less healing and more straight up face-smashing, and Nightblade is the stealth class, so it's got a whole tree dedicated to stealth and bonus damage/stuns from stealth attacks, but you could just easily play it with just the cool CC and life-drain abilities it has and ignore stealth. This is all off the top of my head, so it might not be perfect.
edit: But yeah, at any given time (once you hit the point where you've unlocked all abilities), you're picking between potentially 15 class and 5 weapon abilities, along with any other active ones you've learned, so your class is going to be providing a lot more of your potential choices than your weapon.
So is there an easy way to tell while making a character what abilities the different classes have that are unique to them? I know many skills are just tied to weapons and all that, but I mean how to know which actual class you want to choose?
Class skills are the only thing you need to look at when making your character. Everything else you see there is available to everyone.
Also note that passives are always on. Most are specific to certain actives, weapons and armor types... but there are plenty that you could potentially benefit from at all times. So for example PVP players will want to grab pretty much all the PVP passives, even if they aren't going to use any of the actives.
So is there an easy way to tell while making a character what abilities the different classes have that are unique to them? I know many skills are just tied to weapons and all that, but I mean how to know which actual class you want to choose?
Otherwise, there's 4 classes and they each represent the "base" MMO classes: Dragon Knight for warrior, Templar for cleric, Sorcerer for magic user, and Nightblade for rogue
I mean obviously that's just one part of your skillset and you can technically "spec into" another role with non-class skills, but if you know you like stealthy type you might overall be best going for Nightblade. You don't see their skillset during character creation but it does give you a little info about what they are meant to be.
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You should probably read what you were replying to before posting. At no point was Dr. Chaos speculating about making an encounter impossible because of being specced wrong. He was speculating about players getting pissy at the healer for not taking the Super Ultra Mega Heal 7 skill over the Slightly Better Dance Moves skill. Saying "it will still be completable" doesn't matter so long as there is the perception of other players making suboptimal decisions which then impacts your experience, and if your decisions do impact your performance, then there will be the perception that any choices that deviate from the generally-accepted best choices is wrong, and players who don't follow that won't be accepted for any organized group play.
This means that being a tank means you are using heavy armor, taunt, a shield, 1h mace, and an assorted list of every single skill vaguely relevant to tanking, and without every single one of those, you won't be tanking.
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Pausing and unpausing the download every time it dropped below 1mB/s seemed to speed things up. It would rocket back up to 6mB/s and stay there for a few minutes before going back down... repeat until completion.
But it's finally done. And now I can go to bed in preparation for my half day tomorrow.
Yup. Your average MMO player has no patience for non-cookie cutter builds. In their minds, unless you're following the "best" build that some YouTube celebrity uses, you're not playing right.
TESO will be no different... you just have to find a guild of players that aren't totally populated by sheep that will accept an unconventional build if you choose to have one.
While definitely true, I feel like ESO doesn't promote this as you don't see a ton of numbers pop up everywhere and with the skills being how they are. I mean people will still come up with the "BEST BUILD!!!" but I think it won't be quite as bad as other MMOs. Or at the very least other builds will still be viable and used.
It honestly doesn't matter. Google any RPG (single or multi) that lets you customize your character build and you'll see dozens of results of "What is the best build for X?"
Ultima Online back in 1997 had this bullcrap attitude too despite there being no raiding AND you truly couldn't tell what skills people had unless they told you. People would still snicker at others who didn't use one of the popular templates.
People really don't seem to understand how this megaserver/campaign system works.
Right or wrong, that's the idea that comes into the head. Everyone is supposed to be doing their best, and if you're using the mathematically best you give the appearance of trying, which can appease them.
I'm far more afraid of the alternative - that builds aren't going to matter.
Having said that, are they actually going to give a reason to not use Heavy Armor?
And what kind of crafting does ESO have? Anyone fiddle with that yet?
Edit: Just so I know I'm not screwed - when trying to logon with the beta not in session, it says your login info is bad, right?
Edit2: Nope. Huh. Logged out of website, can't log back in. Reset password, it took the new one, but won't let me log in with it. Think their website might be screwed up?
If I remember correctly, the different armors give you a bonus to health, mana or stamina regeneration depending on how much you're wearing.
edit: Speaking of builds, from what I can tell, there's no doubt that there will be a "best build" for each class/weapon, and some about the combinations thereof. I'm sure the hardcore types will flock to this stuff. But the game is intended to not require whatever these best builds might be, so long as the players are playing skillfully, and have the minimum abilities needed (ie, someone can heal, and someone can tank). For whoever asked, yes, there is non-PvP group content in the form of dungeons (like most MMOs) and the dark anchor/world boss fights, which will require groups as well. I don't think they've said anything about "raid" content though.
The skillset is way to limited to worry about things like that though.
I was simply trying to point out to him that builds like a greatsword wielding mage is totally viable... its probably one of the better DPS classes with the mana regen and harder hitting normal attacks.
You attributed what I said to min-maxing and how more DPS = shorter encounter. Which again, was not what I was talking about.
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Anyone want to party up with me playing that spec?
There are no damage numbers that can be used to parse or call someone out though. Sure an encounter might take longer, but no single DPS can be called out since there are no numbers. If someone gets hit by the same mechanic everytime that causes a wipe, that CAN be pointed out. I don't think you can inspect other players as well, but I will have to check.
TESO will be different, the diversity of how you can build your character is just to much. One of the first things I look for in an MMO is how my character advances, what stats I can effect and what skills I can choose. I look to see if these choices are really just picking between the obvious shitty skills/stats and the good ones. Too many MMOs I have played where my character options are just a process of filtering out the "bad" options. I'm just not seeing bad options in ESO, mainly because there are no cooldowns and everything is tied to stamina and mana.
I'm also not saying that someone can't make a bad build, just that there is less impact on gameplay if someone isn't min-maxed to the nth degree and content will become impossible.
Also who fucking cares if some random person sees only a few viable builds in this game... its been like that in every MMO, and I can assure you its a vocal minority that can easily be avoided. Hell I personally don't avoid them, I just show up, do my thing and never really had a problem. No need to worry about some guy in LFG chat asking for <overgeared> <class> with <eleventy billion DPS> and <gearcheck> or kick... people like that are typically shitty players anyway.
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Unless that guy is every guild doing end game content...which he is.
Teso wont be any different, there will always be a build that will come out on top. It's best to go in prepared for that then hit end game with your two-handed mage or whatever and find every group shunning you.
Yes.
But I love to PUG, meet new players, see different things. I came to terms a LONG time ago that MMOs have a very large amount of bad players. If I end up grouping with one, then I enjoy seeing how much of their slack I can pick up and challenge myself. I love to be that one dude that solo's the last 10% of a boss because I think outside the box. You make friends this way and sometimes those "bad PUGs" are very open to suggestions after you don't immediately make a deal out of their shortcomings.
Every MMO thread, every few pages, someone will be bitching about how they met a bad player that was the "OMG WORST PUG EVER". Usually the same person is someone who also complains about how people only accept those "cookie cutter builds" and shit. Its an interesting circle of silliness.
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This is just wrong. Our guild in FF14 is doing endgame content and most of us in my group make tons of jokes about how little min-maxing matters and we have all the endgame content farmed weekly. I can think of many tweaks and changes to my gear that would turn my tank into the "cookie cutter, best in slot" geared tank... but end of the day, avoiding the red circles and picking up the adds is literally all that matters.
If people wanna clear stuff first and have every single advantage they can possibly have, then sure they can be in guilds that demand the absolute best everything. But that's and old way of thinking since things are becoming more and more execution based and less based on stats and specs.
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I think you need resto staff to fully group heal and decent magicka regen. I think it might depend on the content though.
The stuff I have read on people doing the dungeons in the game has all been about how the mechanics had to be executed perfectly and never about what roles and skills they took with.
If you don't have resto staff, then templar is the only other major healing. They have an entire tree of healing skills, so I would assume that is the other viable way to heal without resto staff equipped.
I played templar in beta mainly and I was able to be a tank/self-healer very well.
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Yeah, I was planning on Templar. And given that you can only equip so many skills in a load out... ehh, I will try it out in the beta this weekend.
I'm assuming dual daggers are out of the question.
If you have the mana regen to support templar heals, they look pretty good. I think what people noticed was that resto staff was more mana efficient. So any class that wants to be a healer can just equip a resto staff and put a few skill points into its skills.
With such a small skillset at any given time, swapping to a healer is as quick as just changing a few skills.
Since you can weapon swap as well in-combat. Someone could very easily be a dagger wielding thief in high mana regen cloth armor, then swap to resto staff for full on healing when needed.
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Sorcerer, under Daedric Summoning. Bound Armor, use a sword+shield(Sadly seems to be the only option for a taunt) and obviously a few other skills and you've got a tanking mage who might not need very much heavy armor.
To be fair - FFXIV does not have a lot of room for build customization.
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Oh I totally agree. It has some of the most shallow customization I've seen.
But there are still people spending TONS of time min-maxing and getting "best in slot" gear for what they think makes a difference. We didn't beat twintania because I hit the next parry/block tier or someone managed 20 more DPS... we killed her cause we picked got the snake transition down and dodged twisters.
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That kind of game isn't for everybody, because some people take great joy from the theorycrafting and min/maxing you can get from games that give you access to all the nuts and bolts.
I got an email earlier this week with a beta key so I will also be checking out the game firsthand this weekend if I get the time and the server is working as I know it's a stress test.
I remember when they announced anyone can spec into being a "pet" class that I got the visions of "pet class offtank" or "pet class healer" dancing in my head.
Chances are though, I'll end up trying to recreate 2 Age of Conan classes, the Dark Templar and my glorious, glorious Bear Shaman.
Ya I dont really have high hopes for this beta since it is stress test oriented. I'll probably fiddle around with it, but not dedicate my entire weekend to it like the last two. Also Bravely Default is out today.
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edit: But yeah, at any given time (once you hit the point where you've unlocked all abilities), you're picking between potentially 15 class and 5 weapon abilities, along with any other active ones you've learned, so your class is going to be providing a lot more of your potential choices than your weapon.
http://eldersouls.com/elder-scrolls-online/skills
Class skills are the only thing you need to look at when making your character. Everything else you see there is available to everyone.
Also note that passives are always on. Most are specific to certain actives, weapons and armor types... but there are plenty that you could potentially benefit from at all times. So for example PVP players will want to grab pretty much all the PVP passives, even if they aren't going to use any of the actives.
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Your best bet is to look at a site like this: http://eldersouls.com/elder-scrolls-online/skills
Otherwise, there's 4 classes and they each represent the "base" MMO classes: Dragon Knight for warrior, Templar for cleric, Sorcerer for magic user, and Nightblade for rogue
I mean obviously that's just one part of your skillset and you can technically "spec into" another role with non-class skills, but if you know you like stealthy type you might overall be best going for Nightblade. You don't see their skillset during character creation but it does give you a little info about what they are meant to be.
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