Chris Christie Scandals: Aides Convicted, Christie Totally Not Involved

Preacher

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/christie-cancels-event-after-revelations

For those not in the know on what the scandal is. TL:DR version Chris Christie's aids to punish a Mayor of a town who did not endorse him in his completely one sided govenership campaign stalled traffic on one of the busiest bridges in the US the first week of school. Christie now claims he had no idea one of his friends and a top aide did this and does not know what else these scandalous rogues may have done.

So here is a discussion on this current scandal. The latest news is Christie has fired the last aide directly involved and the person who shut down the bridge unsuccessfully tried to avoid a subpoena this morning and has to testify at the legislature like right now.



http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/01/09/22242281-embarrassed-and-humiliated-christie-axes-aide-apologizes-for-bridge-scandal?lite

Zombie Hero

And this is definitely Christie's doing and not an aid?

tbloxham

This scandal seems very odd in either direction. If Christie did know about it, and was the 'mastermind', it seems absurdly petty and pointless considering he'd already won and something any competent aide or advisor would have made him back down on. If Christie didn't know about it, it's such a disastrously stupid plan that it would indicate that the people he trusts are nothing but a bunch of loons. I just don't see what they would get out of it. Also, him not knowing about his staff setting up this ridiculous punishment operation just seems crazy.

Honestly, if our political system was normal he should resign either way.

Couscous

“What I was told was that it was a traffic study, and there was no evidence to the contrary until yesterday,” Christie said at a press conference apologizing for his administration’s role in shutting down bridge lanes and causing potentially life-threatening traffic jams. “There still may have been a traffic study that now has political overtones to it as well,” he added.

But Christie, still floated the possibility. “I don’t know if this was a traffic study that morphed into a political vendetta or a political vendetta that morphed into a traffic study,” he claimed.

Christie is still claiming that he thinks there may have been a traffic study. I have no clue why he would make that claim when it is pretty clear there was none.

shryke

tbloxham wrote: »

This scandal seems very odd in either direction. If Christie did know about it, and was the 'mastermind', it seems absurdly petty and pointless considering he'd already won and something any competent aide or advisor would have made him back down on. If Christie didn't know about it, it's such a disastrously stupid plan that it would indicate that the people he trusts are nothing but a bunch of loons. I just don't see what they would get out of it. Also, him not knowing about his staff setting up this ridiculous punishment operation just seems crazy.

Honestly, if our political system was normal he should resign either way.

What's odd about Christie being a petty asshole? We already thought that before this.

SummaryJudgment

"Lololol I think I'm out of the traffic study business now Martha"

In the middle of the press conference. Seriously?

tbloxham

Zombie Hero wrote: »

And this is definitely Christie's doing and not an aid?

We don't know, right now the evidence that we have definitely involves multiple aides in his central office (up to and including his deputy chief of staff). So he's either totally out of the loop in his own organization, or a criminal.

AngelHedgie

Zombie Hero wrote: »

And this is definitely Christie's doing and not an aid?

Doesn't matter. As the military says, "you can delegate authority, not responsibility." The people known to be involved are one of his deputy chiefs of staff and a close friend he appointed to the Port Authority management.

PantsB

He's built his career out of blustering and bullying and cajoling. That's what he's trying now, but its not the local news any more so people are like "hold on time out." Even in big cities, local government and local news people are people who can't cut it in the big (or even minor) leagues usually.

Zombie Hero

tbloxham wrote: »

Zombie Hero wrote: »

And this is definitely Christie's doing and not an aid?

We don't know, right now the evidence that we have definitely involves multiple aides in his central office (up to and including his deputy chief of staff). So he's either totally out of the loop in his own organization, or a criminal.

Either way its bad for sure, i just don't think we should default to the most sensationalist interpretation possible unless the facts point that way.

AngelHedgie

SummaryJudgment wrote: »

"Lololol I think I'm out of the traffic study business now Martha"

In the middle of the press conference. Seriously?

He's a bully who has bluffed and blustered his way through his career.

Preacher

It was his admin, and he's admitted its his fault ultimately. So either he cultivated the culture or called the shot. Either way its his mess now.

Harry Dresden

PantsB wrote: »

He's built his career out of blustering and bullying and cajoling. That's what he's trying now, but its not the local news any more so people are like "hold on time out." Even in big cities, local government and local news people are people who can't cut it in the big (or even minor) leagues usually.

This is going to be very difficult for him. His bluster isn't going to fly with this, and might end up making the situation worse, even if he was only incompetent than the mastermind.

PantsB

Zombie Hero wrote: »

tbloxham wrote: »

Zombie Hero wrote: »

And this is definitely Christie's doing and not an aid?

We don't know, right now the evidence that we have definitely involves multiple aides in his central office (up to and including his deputy chief of staff). So he's either totally out of the loop in his own organization, or a criminal.

Either way its bad for sure, i just don't think we should default to the most sensationalist interpretation possible unless the facts point that way.

We know it was directly run by Christie's childhood friend who he brought directly into this position as a retaliation for not backing Christie's political candidacy (across party lines) and that Christie has publicly lied about it from the get-go.

There was never a traffic study and no reason to believe there was but Christie claimed repeatedly that's all it was.

He's culpable no matter what, and the simplest explanation is that he directed it.

Preacher

I'm simply amazed he's still backing the traffic study sham. I mean there was no evidence of the traffic study, not even a faked one after the fact. Why claim it was still a traffic sudy when there is zero evidence they even collected data?

AngelHedgie

PantsB wrote: »

Zombie Hero wrote: »

tbloxham wrote: »

Zombie Hero wrote: »

And this is definitely Christie's doing and not an aid?

We don't know, right now the evidence that we have definitely involves multiple aides in his central office (up to and including his deputy chief of staff). So he's either totally out of the loop in his own organization, or a criminal.

Either way its bad for sure, i just don't think we should default to the most sensationalist interpretation possible unless the facts point that way.

We know it was directly run by Christie's childhood friend who he brought directly into this position as a retaliation for not backing Christie's political candidacy (across party lines) and that Christie has publicly lied about it from the get-go.

There was never a traffic study and no reason to believe there was but Christie claimed repeatedly that's all it was.

He's culpable no matter what, and the simplest explanation is that he directed it.

At best, it's the same scenario as Iran-Contra, except that Christie doesn't have Alzheimer's to fall back on as an excuse.

shryke

Preacher wrote: »

I'm simply amazed he's still backing the traffic study sham. I mean there was no evidence of the traffic study, not even a faked one after the fact. Why claim it was still a traffic sudy when there is zero evidence they even collected data?

Deny, deny, deny and hope it fades from the spotlight. It's all he's got at this point.

Especially given his comments here: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/christie_not_sure_how_far_revenge_went
that indicate there's even more scandals to come.

enlightenedbum

PantsB wrote: »

He's built his career out of blustering and bullying and cajoling. That's what he's trying now, but its not the local news any more so people are like "hold on time out." Even in big cities, local government and local news people are people who can't cut it in the big (or even minor) leagues usually.

Local news is less intimidated/in love with him than the national press. They were the ones who really did the job on this, with Maddow giving it national attention.

shryke

enlightenedbum wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

He's built his career out of blustering and bullying and cajoling. That's what he's trying now, but its not the local news any more so people are like "hold on time out." Even in big cities, local government and local news people are people who can't cut it in the big (or even minor) leagues usually.

Local news is less intimidated/in love with him than the national press. They were the ones who really did the job on this, with Maddow giving it national attention.

They've been the ones paying real attention to him for years and so fully know the kind of asshole he is.

tbloxham

Preacher wrote: »

I'm simply amazed he's still backing the traffic study sham. I mean there was no evidence of the traffic study, not even a faked one after the fact. Why claim it was still a traffic sudy when there is zero evidence they even collected data?

The even more stupid thing is this, it's perfectly EASY to do the darn traffic study. Have the corrupt aides rope in a few interns, and send them to set up some go-pros on the bridges and then count the cars in the data. Then do the same once you re-open the lanes. Then, even though its a terrible study, at least Fox can be on your side and say "Those damn liberals, this looks like a perfectly good study to us! Statistical controls are for wimps!" They could probably have done it for free!

It's just incompetence on every level. They aren't even good at being devious.

Preacher

Yeah thats the thing that amazes me. Its like they came up with the traffic study lie after being amazed people were absolutely pissed off traffic sucked more dicks than a huge dick sucking machine. I mean I don't live in jersey, but if someone pulled the same shit in washington state with the floating bridge (which deals with less traffic than GWB by far) they'd be skinned alive.

enlightenedbum

tbloxham wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

I'm simply amazed he's still backing the traffic study sham. I mean there was no evidence of the traffic study, not even a faked one after the fact. Why claim it was still a traffic sudy when there is zero evidence they even collected data?

The even more stupid thing is this, it's perfectly EASY to do the darn traffic study. Have the corrupt aides rope in a few interns, and send them to set up some go-pros on the bridges and then count the cars in the data. Then do the same once you re-open the lanes. Then, even though its a terrible study, at least Fox can be on your side and say "Those damn liberals, this looks like a perfectly good study to us! Statistical controls are for wimps!" They could probably have done it for free!

It's just incompetence on every level. They aren't even good at being devious.

When you elect middle school bullies, you get middle school bullies.

Ardol

AngelHedgie wrote: »

SummaryJudgment wrote: »

"Lololol I think I'm out of the traffic study business now Martha"

In the middle of the press conference. Seriously?

He's a bully who has bluffed and blustered his way through his career.

Here's an article about his bullying history.

Some excerpts:

As he pushed to cut public employee benefits, his staff celebrated video clips of him dressing down teachers at town hall-style meetings by posting them on YouTube. (“You want to come up here? Come up here,” the governor said to one teacher, a fellow Republican, who hesitated until the governor’s security state troopers gave him no choice. Wagging a finger, Mr. Christie lectured the man, then dismissed him from the hall.)

In 2011, Mr. Christie held a news conference where he accused State Senator Richard J. Codey of being “combative and difficult” in blocking two nominees. Mr. Codey, a Democrat who had served as governor following the resignation of James E. McGreevey, responded that he had not only signed off on the nominations, but had held a meeting to try to hurry them along.

Three days later, Mr. Codey was walking out of an event in Newark when he got a call from the state police superintendent informing him that he would no longer be afforded the trooper who accompanied him to occasional public events — a courtesy granted all former governors. That same day, his cousin, who had been appointed by Mr. McGreevey to the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, was fired, as was a close friend and former deputy chief of staff who was then working in the state Office of Consumer Affairs.

Later that year, the governor was pressing hard on Alan Rosenthal, the Rutgers political scientist whom Republicans and Democrats had chosen as the tiebreaking member of the commission that was redistricting the state’s legislative districts. Mr. Christie wanted Mr. Rosenthal to vote for the map put forward by the Republicans on the commission, but instead he chose the Democrats’ plan, saying it offered more stability.

Soon after, Mr. Christie used his line-item veto to cut $169,000 for two programs at Mr. Rosenthal’s institute at Rutgers.

Captain Carrot

PantsB wrote: »

He's built his career out of blustering and bullying and cajoling. That's what he's trying now, but its not the local news any more so people are like "hold on time out." Even in big cities, local government and local news people are people who can't cut it in the big (or even minor) leagues usually.

He isn't trying that now, that's the problem. If he just straight up said "Yeah, I fucked him over because that's how politics works sometimes", he'd probably be doing better than his current mushmouthing.

AngelHedgie

Captain Carrot wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

He's built his career out of blustering and bullying and cajoling. That's what he's trying now, but its not the local news any more so people are like "hold on time out." Even in big cities, local government and local news people are people who can't cut it in the big (or even minor) leagues usually.

He isn't trying that now, that's the problem. If he just straight up said "Yeah, I fucked him over because that's how politics works sometimes", he'd probably be doing better than his current mushmouthing.

Not really, because when you fuck political rivals over, you're supposed to make sure nobody is in the crossfire. The fact that this stunt literally cost a life isn't something you get around easily.

shryke

Captain Carrot wrote: »

PantsB wrote: »

He's built his career out of blustering and bullying and cajoling. That's what he's trying now, but its not the local news any more so people are like "hold on time out." Even in big cities, local government and local news people are people who can't cut it in the big (or even minor) leagues usually.

He isn't trying that now, that's the problem. If he just straight up said "Yeah, I fucked him over because that's how politics works sometimes", he'd probably be doing better than his current mushmouthing.

I'm betting he can't take that route without giving up his political career cause criminal charges.

override367

not to mention opening up lawsuits

Couscous

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/transcript-chris-christies-news-conference-on-george-washington-bridge-scandal/2014/01/09/d0f4711c-7944-11e3-8963-b4b654bcc9b2_story.html
Here is the transcript of the speech and questions.

But what I also want the people of New Jersey to know is that this is the exception, not the rule. And they've seen that over the last four years with the way I've worked and what I've done. So I don't want to fall into the trap of saying, well, this one incident happened, therefore the one incident defines the whole -- it does not, just like one employee who's lied doesn't determine the character of all the other employees around you. And so I don't want to overreact to that in that way either, John (sp). But if you're asking me over the last 48 hours or last 36 hours I've done some soul-searching, you bet I have.

What about the other Christie employees mentioned in the emails like spokesman Michael Drewniak?

enlightenedbum

So the committee meeting featuring Wildstein is starting. It's here: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bridge-hearing-watch-live

Currently his lawyer is claiming the subpoena is invalid because it totally isn't the committee chairman's handwriting, you guys!

RedTide

Petition to change thread title to Chris Christie: A Bridge (or A Fridge) Too Far?

enlightenedbum

At least remove GWB Scandal, because that brings up natural associations that are not true.

Dark_Side

Preacher wrote: »

Yeah thats the thing that amazes me. Its like they came up with the traffic study lie after being amazed people were absolutely pissed off traffic sucked more dicks than a huge dick sucking machine. I mean I don't live in jersey, but if someone pulled the same shit in washington state with the floating bridge (which deals with less traffic than GWB by far) they'd be skinned alive.

Kind of blows me away. One of the few things you don't ever, ever do in this country is fuck with traffic. I get that they were riding high and probably feeling invincible, but man...why take it out on people just trying to get to work?

Preacher

Wasn't it on the George Washington Bridge? And no I'm not changing the title into a fat joke Red, that is beneath us. I will also not change it to "Portly authority Issues"

AngelHedgie

enlightenedbum wrote: »

So the committee meeting featuring Wildstein is starting. It's here: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bridge-hearing-watch-live

Currently his lawyer is claiming the subpoena is invalid because it totally isn't the committee chairman's handwriting, you guys!

Funny, they usually don't go straight to the table pounding.

Preacher

Dark_Side wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

Yeah thats the thing that amazes me. Its like they came up with the traffic study lie after being amazed people were absolutely pissed off traffic sucked more dicks than a huge dick sucking machine. I mean I don't live in jersey, but if someone pulled the same shit in washington state with the floating bridge (which deals with less traffic than GWB by far) they'd be skinned alive.

Kind of blows me away. One of the few things you don't ever, ever do in this country is fuck with traffic. I get that they were riding high and probably feeling invincible, but man...why take it out on people just trying to get to work?

Honestly because they probably didn't even fucking think about it. Most of the people in higher powers in our government have no idea how any 9-5's get to work/deal with bullshit like traffic to begin with. Which is why the traffic study thing lasted as long as it did, it sounds like the kind of assholish don't care about the people they hurt shit that morons in charge do all the time.

Preacher

This happened at the absolute worst time for Christie, with the POLAR VORTEX!!! Basically making nothing else newsworth for a while the only real national story is his blithering incompetence.

ElJeffe

Preacher wrote: »

I'm simply amazed he's still backing the traffic study sham. I mean there was no evidence of the traffic study, not even a faked one after the fact. Why claim it was still a traffic sudy when there is zero evidence they even collected data?

He was studying the effects of fucking with traffic on his political rivals' willingness to kiss his ass.

If I had to guess, I would say Christie probably gave his associates implicit orders to pull shit like this while not letting him know the particulars. Mostly just because that's the smartest way to go about it. All the benefits of directly ordering blatant abuses of power with much less legal or political culpability. Just means you need to have underlings willing to take the fall for you, which... well, we'll see how that goes.

joshofalltrades

AngelHedgie wrote: »

enlightenedbum wrote: »

So the committee meeting featuring Wildstein is starting. It's here: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bridge-hearing-watch-live

Currently his lawyer is claiming the subpoena is invalid because it totally isn't the committee chairman's handwriting, you guys!

Funny, they usually don't go straight to the table pounding.

Well, they can't pound the facts or the law, so the podium it is then.

Preacher

ElJeffe wrote: »

Preacher wrote: »

I'm simply amazed he's still backing the traffic study sham. I mean there was no evidence of the traffic study, not even a faked one after the fact. Why claim it was still a traffic sudy when there is zero evidence they even collected data?

He was studying the effects of fucking with traffic on his political rivals' willingness to kiss his ass.

If I had to guess, I would say Christie probably gave his associates implicit orders to pull shit like this while not letting him know the particulars. Mostly just because that's the smartest way to go about it. All the benefits of directly ordering blatant abuses of power with much less legal or political culpability. Just means you need to have underlings willing to take the fall for you, which... well, we'll see how that goes.

I recall what happened if true could be illegal, we'll see how willing these duders are to go to jail for Christie. Wildenstein being terrified of testifying does not point for good things for this admin.

Dark_Side

Preacher wrote: »

This happened at the absolute worst time for Christie, with the POLAR VORTEX!!! Basically making nothing else newsworth for a while the only real national story is his blithering incompetence.

I'mt not so sure it's about his incompetence so much as about the fact that either his staff are a bunch of completely out of control flunkies that he doesn't keep a leash on. Or that he has made a career out of "nice X you got there, be a real shame if something were to....happen to it."

Preacher

Well I went with incompetence because thats the angle he's using right now. "I had no idea about these things my friends who I put in these positions did, I'm just as shocked as you are."

If it comes out he ordered the code red, then I'll adjust my point.