The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Helping my Girlfriend as she grieves the loss of her brother
Mulletude
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Thread title says most of it.
The funeral was today. Was there and able to support her in what ways someone can in these circumstances.
She has been totally crushed, understandably, and hasn't felt much like talking to anyone so I have made a point to give her breathing room and to at no point make her worried about me. I don't want her to be focusing on anything but what she can handle right now.
The death was unexpected and her brother was a very well known and well loved young man, so it just makes it even more surprising that he took his own life.
In the last 2 years she lost her much beloved father to cancer and her grandmother also passed, so it has been exceedingly tough for her. I have been friends with her for many years and we weren't dating during those times so my role was very different I feel.
I have done a lot of reading on the topic so that I can avoid making the kind of shitty mistakes that people may selfishly(and maybe inadvertently) make in these situations.
I suppose, H/A, does anyone have any first hand experience they can share? Wisdom to impart? Anything I can do that maybe I haven't thought of or read about yet?
Thank you in advance
The funeral was today. Was there and able to support her in what ways someone can in these circumstances.
She has been totally crushed, understandably, and hasn't felt much like talking to anyone so I have made a point to give her breathing room and to at no point make her worried about me. I don't want her to be focusing on anything but what she can handle right now.
The death was unexpected and her brother was a very well known and well loved young man, so it just makes it even more surprising that he took his own life.
In the last 2 years she lost her much beloved father to cancer and her grandmother also passed, so it has been exceedingly tough for her. I have been friends with her for many years and we weren't dating during those times so my role was very different I feel.
I have done a lot of reading on the topic so that I can avoid making the kind of shitty mistakes that people may selfishly(and maybe inadvertently) make in these situations.
I suppose, H/A, does anyone have any first hand experience they can share? Wisdom to impart? Anything I can do that maybe I haven't thought of or read about yet?
Thank you in advance
XBL-Dug Danger WiiU-DugDanger Steam-http://steamcommunity.com/id/DugDanger/
0
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
After the funeral they had a reception/celebration type thing that I had to end up leaving early because I am a single parent and only had help for so long. I felt horrible leaving but I think she has so much to deal with with her family and her brothers friends(so many there) that I wouldn't have wanted her worrying about trying to socialize with me all night.
Luckily I have the entire next week off for vacation so I have already offered to be there for anything for her.
I appreciate your perspective and advice. Thank you.
Like 3 weeks into dating my (now) wife was 2 years after her older brother died, and she really struggled that night... but I think for her just talking about her brother was helpful, and though it was definitely very emotional having someone there to just listen to her and hug her definitely seemed to make a difference
How well did you know her brother? I had scant opportunity to meet my wife's father before he died, but something that I suspect has always given her some comfort is that some of his most frequent sayings and attitudes have been somewhat internalized into our relationship. It's a difficult subject, because it entirely depends on how her and her family handle the grieving process. To me it sounds like you have the right attitude, though, and I have no doubt you'll be able to support her through this.
It's really worn her down. She has turned inwards (she is like me in this way), so I understand but it's hard to watch the person I love hurt and not be really able to do anything for her.
It's a super hard line to walk, to be there, available, but also not suffocating. Sometimes just having you in the same space can be enough. Someimes too much. Every person is different, so just be patient and pay attention to her cues.
Nobody knows exactly how she feels or exactly what she's going thru, but she is not alone.
Saw her today again for just a short while. Gave her lots of hugs. She was ready to just get home and get some rest (up really late reading memorial sites for her brother and looking at pics, etc...)
I can tell that she badly wants to try to have "normal" conversations and what not but that just isn't gonna happen for a while. The shock is still there and the pain still really intense.
Gonna continue doing what I have been and be available to her should she need or want anything.
Thanks again.
Don't ask "Are you okay?" (She's not, and the question can only remind her of that fact).
Don't ask "Is there anything I can do" (There isn't, even though there is. But the question1 itself is an almost impossible climb).
... I had several more "don't ask" lines here. But they mostly circle back to the same basic point, which is this: Avoid open ended questions. Especially about her emotional state, to be sure. But also questions like "So, what do you want for dinner?" Grief is a kind of weight, and we don't so much heal as get stronger, build the emotional and mental musculature to carry that weight. The challenge sudden or early deaths present so acutely is that instead of having even a chance[1] to prepare, that weight is dropped from a great height. The energy of impact ought to be enough to kill us, but it lacks the courtesy, so instead we just have to start carrying that weight before we have built ourselves up for it. You cannot lift that weight for her, so the thing to do is to try and lighten other burdens, as you can.
But I have digressed, I'm afraid. When I'm not doing this sort of thing in person[2] I can get somewhat philosophical. My point is this: imagine your girlfriend as someone who is training for a marathon that she has to run even though she has zero interest in doing so. Don't worry to much about emotional support in the after school special sense. You are not and cannot be her therapist. Be there when she reaches out, and be emotionally available, but don't bang the drum. When you do that you're trapping her in that head space. She knows she's grieving, and if you are a good person and have a real relationship, she knows you are there for her. So what to do instead?
Make dinner, and when you do say something like "I was going to make pasta or chicken for dinner, do you have a preference?" instead of asking "what would you like for dinner." If you have something you think she would enjoy, when you invite her try and structure it so that it doesn't come with an easy out. This is hard to describe succinctly, I'm finding but the point is to try and help her avoid simply sinking into isolation. You obviously are not going to want to bully her into doing things, you're just trying to change the defaults a little, if that makes any sense... You say she's already trying to have normal conversations, which can be incredibly healthy. She'll start to break up or crack up, or go quiet or whatever. When that happens, my advice[3] would be to try and help her move back into the rhythm of what was going on before. I wish I could tell you exactly how to do that but I can't because there isn't really a trick to it. If you put a gun to my head, I'd probably say it was about supplying the correct momentum -- giving enough additional energy of motion that when she hits that speed bump, she moves over it, but not so much that she'll be totaled if it turns out to be a speed wall you aren't crushing her into it.
I cannot help but feel that I've been unclear; I feel like I'm trying to tell you the universe through a tin-can telephone circuit. The thing is, she'll never get "over" it; how do you get over your life? What we call "getting over it" just about letting the grief become a fact of our lives without it becoming THE fact of our life.
Look, you said you were a single parent. Which means at some point you had a partner, and at some point that partner exited your life. So you know about loss and thus about grief. Anyone who says that they "don't know what that is like" in the face of loss hasn't been paying attention. The intensities can be different. But loss is loss is loss, regardless of the details.
Anyway. I hope that helps, although it feels a bit disjointed.
[1]And even when given a chance, lots of people cannot prepare . Because they aren't willing to, and some because the blow is simply too heavy. What do you do when you watch your infant son pull the wig off your wife's head in the infusion center? I cannot imagine how much time would be required to prepare for that; twenty months wasn't enough, and I don't think twenty years would have helped more. Fuck, I'M still not prepared for that two years on, and it wasn't my wife. And yet... the widower moves and lives and functions and gets better, or at least so it seemed the last I saw him.
[2]As may have been inferred, I do some amount of grief counseling. And because it may be relevant: The husband in the story above isn't someone I dealt with in that capacity, but a patient of MY wife's. Thank god. Pulling my wife back together after that was challenge enough. Helping him in that moment wouldn't have been within my capacity.
[3]Which, like all advice, is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Just gonna read through it a few more times and try to digest all the info you laid out
Advice for you I would say try and relate with your own experiences of loss (not to her obviously), be it the loss of someone very close or losing something more abstract like hopes or dreams (wanting to be a pilot but having poor eye sight. Loss in a general sense follows similar structures. What was it like for your lessing go of that old idea of yourself, if you had a kid I'm sure there were some things your had to let go of. That obviously doesn't hold the suddenness of it, but the base and way of understanding physical and abstract losses are quite similar.
Your roll for her, as jamesra stated rather well is not as a therapist, as such working through her feeling and grief is not something you should attend to unless she brings it up. You should focus on keeping the rest of her world (at least that you can control) as stable and consistent as possible. Treating her differently, asking how she is, treating her like she's fragile will remind her how different her life is now and indirectly expand the scope of the change leading to inconclusive assumption: "Now that my brother died my boyfriend treats me like glass." Which makes the loss worse.
Seeing as we are in a gaming site, I could suggest a game with many death and grief themes that could help you and possible if she were interested, even her manage some of the feelings both related to direct effects of loss or secondary effect: Zelda Majora's Mask. Hopefully I can more confidently recommend this game for those dealing with loss when I've conducted some research. Those are my suggestions for you, and remember to take care of yourself to, because as stressful and difficult as it is for her to face and managed the loss. It is also very difficult to handle others going through it.
So, her brother was super big into vegan lifestyle. She is kind of taking this on and trying to follow by example. So today, I went to a local all organic store and bought her a certificate that would cover a couple of the lunch items they have every day and left it at her door. Haven't heard a word from her since Tuesday (she seemed to be trying to make "normal" conversation that day) so just wanted to try and do something thoughtful without obligating her to me in some way.
I appreciate all the posts here. It helps to come in and read the advice given when I start to feel particularly batty. Prob doesn't help I have had this week off (and originally it was taken for us to spend some days together but obv circumstances changed) and have waaay too much time to think. Never thought I would be more relieved to have work occupying me than some time off but that is where I am.
but they're listening to every word I say
Okay, all of that narcissism having been dealt with, there is something of substance I want to address. It is this:
(I would have liked to edit that down to hit a specific point, but I'm tired and so don't trust myself).
So: SHE ISN'T GOING TO BE READY. She won't return to normal by waiting for it. That isn't how it works. She won't be done processing this while she is on this side of the grave. I swear to God, if you take nothing else away from what I'm saying, take that. If you understand nothing else, understand that. I tried above to be cautious in applying pressure, because this forum tends young, and tends male and if there is one thing you can generally rely on young men for it is being to aggressive. But that clearly isn't you, so I will be more forceful. You have to create normal. You simply have to do it, you have to make NOT being normal the active choice. I cannot really give you the tools of my experience, and I don't hate you enough to do it even it I could. (I don't hate anyone like that. I don't hate my fucking MOTHER like that). I'm not telling you to be a dick. I'm not telling you to be selfish. I am telling you that it is okay if she rages at you. I mean, so what? (What is she going to do, take your birthday away?) I am telling you that being a bit forceful is okay. I am telling you (again, and again) that excessive deference is just as bad as indifference. So, in my advice to you alone, based on what I have seen, is this: drag her out. Be more forceful. Don't take no for an answer[8], at least not easily and don't let the issue go just because she shot you down the first time.
If she rages at you, that isn't so bad.[5] It is probably to the good; we are (and women especially are) socialized to a kind of numb politeness, and it isn't terribly helpful. But do normal. PERFORM normal. Treating her like spun glass will only teach her that she IS spun glass, that she has been rendered breakable. You return to normal by doing normal. Full stop. You cannot ignore her loss, but that is okay. You, specifically, are not in danger of ignoring her loss. But everything you've told us says to me that you are so anxious to avoid causing harm that you are not willing to take risks to do good. And you have to be willing to take risks. I doubt she is going to dump you.[6]
You cannot wait for her to return to normal, not if you want to help. You have to create normal and pull her into it. Life is what we DO. Not what we are ready for. We are never ready.
I have more to say. But it is already to late for me to be trying to do this.
[1] Or not. The thing about having an emotional sadist[2] for a mother is that while it is a learning experience, you develop a nervous tick about expressing the idea that you might do something of value. Someone might think you are getting above yourself.
[2] She would have liked to be a physical sadist, I think, but she lacks the strength for it. Which did lead to some funny incidents; if you ever get a chance, get me to tell you about the time she tried to sweep me to death.
[3] Not really germane, but an ex once described me as a "man shaped tragedy," which I've always rather liked. The same girl also once looked at me and said "James, how in the fuck are you NOT a raging misogynist," which I think is the compliment I've been paid of which I am much the fondest. She also would later say (as we were nearing one of our endings) that she was afraid to stay involved with someone who's luck was as terrible as mine. I found that I could only agree with the wisdom of her position.
[4] Seriously. I was 35 before someone explained to me that hyper-vigilance was a symptom of PTSD. Until then, I just thought other people were simply rude and/or to lazy to bother paying attention. Okay, yeah, these have gotten slightly self-indulgent.
[5] People are different, can't know everyone, etc, etc. Let us take this as read and understood. But rage is often just an outlet for pain, a kind of emotional steam valve.
[6] If she does, I will give you three to five that she doesn't mean it and pull back within the day. So if she does say she wants to break up, wait it out. Don't fight back. Don't argue. Don't FIGHT. Tell her that you are there for her, that you love her, and that no matter what she thinks is best you will do your best to help. And that you will be checking on her for the next few days. I am the most determinedly, willfully feminist person you are likely to encounter here[7], so please recognize how singular this advice is. I think it is the right advice for you. But it makes me nervous as all hell. And if she does mean it, sooner is better than later. The last thing you want is for her to feel like she has to be with you, because you were so supportive. I mean, doesn't that sound like fun? And YOU can stay because she needs you! Don't do this. I already exist.
[7] although how I wish we lived in a world where this was a challenge that all the forum would rise to meet...
[8] For fucks sake, though, don't you (VERY unlikely) or anyone else (I HOPE also very unlikely)use this as any kind of rationale for sexual assault. If someone turns that around on me I will no shit find you where you live and not kill you at great length and with considerable devotion. Read between the lines here, if you are confused about why that is something to be avoided.
I understand. And thank you for posting. I haven't been pushing her. This is my internal stuff dumping out in this thread. I know worrying about the things in my last two posts is super selfish. And I am not going to dump that on her.
I appreciate that slap though.
This is a good read and filled with great advice. Helps put in perspective a lot of things people on the outside may see or think in these kind of times.
Be there for her.
When her father died, I told her that I would be there when she wanted to simply stop processing the events of the day- dealing with funeral homes, lawyers, family, planning, hospitals, doctors- and I figured shoving myself into that pile pestering her with questions wasn't going to help any- in fact, it'd hurt by adding more shit to the pile for her to deal with.
It seemed for three days, she was dealing with craziness, but every night she was clinging to me like I was her giant teddy bear, comforting her and letting her get her grief out. I let her grieve as much as she wanted to grieve, and I did anything she asked of me that could help her out and didn't press her on anything.
Some people grieve at their own pace. Like others in the thread have said, if she needs to be with her family, let her go be with her family and don't worry about it. Be that rock of strength in a roiling emotional ocean for her- a bit of normalcy in the crazy, fucked-up world she's fighting through right now. She needs someone she can cling to so she can deal with her own grief, but who's also willing to let her go back into the fight to help deal with it as best she can.
Come when she calls, be there when she needs you, and let her go back when she realizes she has to face it again. That's how we got through that bad time.
I can has cheezburger, yes?