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[Android: Netrunner] Creating and Controlling since 2012

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Posts

  • EndaroEndaro Registered User regular
    jakobagger wrote: »
    Occasionally fun decks win in the competitive scene though. Cambridge PE seems pretty fun to me, for example.

    I definitely agree, though I think that's often more by coincidence than intent. If the choice is between fun and effective, the tournament deck will and should choose effective, which over time tends to really narrow the card pool down to only the most reliable, efficient, and powerful cards.

    I don't mean to say that tournament play isn't or can't be fun, just that I don't think it's for me. It tends to dominate the conversation, but I'm glad it's not the only viable way to play. I think I would feel compelled to get really good at the dominant Andy/NEH archtypes, or get good enough at their dominant counters to beat them (which I probably don't have the skill to pull off), or bring my silly decks and lose. Instead it's just everyone playing decks that interest them. The community aspect of it allows us to avoid a lot of the fatigue from repeated playstyles, or frustration with over powered cards, without needing official actions like hard-counters and phased-out cards.

  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    I like to have a competitive deck or two (or, since my habit is getting bad, one for each faction...), and then the rest of my decks are just "why not?" fun decks. Things like Sterling Connections/Keyhole, or CT Stealth, or Quetzal/E3/Paintbrush. I definitely think it's worth playing these decks, because in addition to having fun and throwing together random stuff, there's a chance you'll re-evaluate some otherwise dismissed cards in a traditional tournament "meta." It also can give a nicer handicap against players who haven't sunk as much time into the hobby and aren't up to tournament-level deck-building.

  • PraetorPraetor Registered User regular
    So, tournament season has started up again in the area and I've been looking at messing around with making Quetzal work. I'd love to have feedback on the following deck.
    Supplier Quetzal

    Quetzal: Free Spirit (First Contact)

    Event (9)
    3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
    3x Quality Time (Humanity's Shadow) •••
    3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

    Hardware (5)
    3x e3 Feedback Implants (Trace Amount) ••••• •
    2x Grimoire (Core Set)

    Resource (11)
    3x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
    2x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
    3x Liberated Account (Trace Amount)
    3x The Supplier (First Contact) ••••• •

    Icebreaker (8)
    1x Corroder (Core Set)
    3x Knight (Mala Tempora)
    2x Mimic (Core Set)
    2x Yog.0 (Core Set)

    Program (12)
    3x D4v1d (The Spaces Between)
    2x Datasucker (Core Set)
    2x Imp (What Lies Ahead)
    2x Medium (Core Set)
    3x Parasite (Core Set)

    15 influence spent (max 15)
    45 cards (min 45)
    Cards up to First Contact

    Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.

    E3 is a no brainer, but I'm trying out the supplier for econ. I had an initial idea with inject for card draw, but it meant I needed to find space for Deja Vu/Retrieval run, which also seemed really click intensive.

    3DS FC: 3067-6095-3603
  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    Isn't 3-of the supplier a bit overkill? I'm not sure how much benefit you get out of it all together for the influence cost - your hardware is unique/doesn't help in multiples and it seems better to just use a click on your liberated accounts than spend that click playing the supplier?

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Well you can also use the Supplier to install the Liberated Accounts for 2c less, which is actually super useful since it lets you install it on a lower credit pool.

    But yeah I would usually want more resources/hardware to pair him up with.

  • PraetorPraetor Registered User regular
    I was using it mostly for the liberated accounts/daily casts synergy, cause I keep finding that anarchs as a faction end up being really poor. I do see your point though, would swapping the suppliers out for 3 of aesops work? I dislike the account siphon recursion style of anarch that i've seen, and I'm not sure of any other alternatives for anarch economy.

    3DS FC: 3067-6095-3603
  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    Praetor wrote: »
    I was using it mostly for the liberated accounts/daily casts synergy, cause I keep finding that anarchs as a faction end up being really poor. I do see your point though, would swapping the suppliers out for 3 of aesops work? I dislike the account siphon recursion style of anarch that i've seen, and I'm not sure of any other alternatives for anarch economy.

    cyberfeeders
    hard at work
    sure gambles / lucky finds
    maybe grifters

    sig.gif
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Don't forget Queen's Gambit! Armitage Codebusting has a lower entry threshold than Liberated too, which can be nice.

  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    Don't forget Queen's Gambit! Armitage Codebusting has a lower entry threshold than Liberated too, which can be nice.

    i should try queen's gambit more

    i am just so bad at playing anarch

    i played my ridiculous Andy deck this morning once and won with it

    it's nothing but ice destruction, emergency shutdown, and 3x medium

    i named it "charge"

    i was playing some jinteki PE guy who rushed some remotes with lots of advancement tokens and cheap ice

    i was real scared cuz i saw a ronin in his R&D but i refused to change the plan and kept sallying forth. They were all agendas and traps I guess because I just kept drawing and running through 3 snares until I found the points I needed.

    sig.gif
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    First attempt at putting hostile infrastructure to use:
    Topdeck Blacktree

    Jinteki: Personal Evolution (Core Set)

    Agenda (10)
    3x Fetal AI (Trace Amount)
    3x House of Knives (Honor and Profit)
    1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
    3x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

    Asset (14)
    3x Hostile Infrastructure (All That Remains)
    3x Mental Health Clinic (Honor and Profit)
    2x Project Junebug (Core Set)
    3x Snare! (Core Set)
    3x Sundew (Mala Tempora)

    Upgrade (3)
    3x Shell Corporation (All That Remains)

    Operation (12)
    2x Diversified Portfolio (Honor and Profit)
    3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
    3x Neural EMP (Core Set)
    2x Scorched Earth (Core Set) ····· ···
    2x SEA Source (Core Set) ····

    Code Gate (2)
    2x Yagura (Fear and Loathing)

    Sentry (8)
    2x Gemini (All That Remains)
    3x Komainu (Honor and Profit)
    3x Pup (Honor and Profit)

    Cards in deck: 49 (min 45)
    12/15 influence used
    Agenda Points: 20
    Cards up to All That Remains

    Deck built with Net Deck.

    The win condition is a bit shaky, but I can do sneaky stuff like protect shell corp with a snare or fetal

    Obviously it needs work. I've got to find something to spend that last three influence on.

    Shorty on
    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    That... is a surprisingly low amount of traps. I suppose SEA/Scorch is a thing, but not even a Mushin!

    Jinteki always seems to have more cards that I think are cool and want to include than I have space for in the deck. It's a lovely change from what they used to be.

    Powerpuppies
  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    what do you do with all your money?

    seems like you get crushed by someone who runs your centrals and your advanced facedown cards and leaves your assets alone

    upping the damage of snare to 4 is nice, but there's still only 3 in the deck, and you have no jackson to recur them

    i think you either need stronger ice or some fast advance

    sig.gif
    tzeentchling
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Ideally, he sinks the money into a SEA source, then double scorches them, but a single plascrete is enough to disrupt it. I would like to include some more advance-able traps, but not a lot of influence for that.

    I honestly wonder if one could play a PE deck that uses 2/3 Cerebral Overwriters, 0-2 Jacksons, and the Grail ice. Stupid 9 influence, but Merlin is a nice set of 2 net damage that could be up to 6 potentially, off a code gate (or up to 4 off a Barrier or Sentry). 9 ice is about right for a shell deck anyway. No room for a Scorch though unless you don't run the Overwriters.

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    what do you do with all your money?

    seems like you get crushed by someone who runs your centrals and your advanced facedown cards and leaves your assets alone

    upping the damage of snare to 4 is nice, but there's still only 3 in the deck, and you have no jackson to recur them

    i think you either need stronger ice or some fast advance

    Not sure yet, I haven't gotten a lot of playtesting in

    Fetal has to stay in because it's net damage I don't pay for, but I may rework the deck for trick of light shenanigans, with braintrust and medical breakthrough

    Jinteki is really tough to build since you want traps and then all the other stuff that every deck needs

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
    Powerpuppiestzeentchling
  • EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    Had a really frustrating OCTGN game last night where I saw one piece of ice in the first 17 cards of my deck - and it wasn't even ETR. And no Jacksons. Eighteen ice in that deck, too.

    When I lost, the next five cards in R&D were three cheap pieces of ETR ice and two Jacksons. Aaaargh.

  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Just realized that Feint is actually a fantastic counter to Crisium Grid.

    Feint reads, ..."If the run is successful, you may not access cards." But, Crisium Grid cancels that out. This means that the runner does in fact access cards, which allows them to trash Crisium Grid (and get a card from HQ)!

    Just picturing my friend's face (who plays a Crisium/Off the Grid deck in HB) when I Feint, trash Crisium, SOT the Feint, and then run his suddenly unprotected agenda. :P

  • EndaroEndaro Registered User regular
    edited November 2014
    Just realized that Feint is actually a fantastic counter to Crisium Grid.

    Feint reads, ..."If the run is successful, you may not access cards." But, Crisium Grid cancels that out. This means that the runner does in fact access cards, which allows them to trash Crisium Grid (and get a card from HQ)!

    Just picturing my friend's face (who plays a Crisium/Off the Grid deck in HB) when I Feint, trash Crisium, SOT the Feint, and then run his suddenly unprotected agenda. :P

    If he's not already putting Guards on HQ he is doing it wrong!

    Endaro on
    PMAversShorty
  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    probably won't matter very much for stateside/asian Netrunner players, but it could be important for those of you in Europe:

    http://fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5212

    FFG is merging with a French distributor/publisher

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    probably won't matter very much for stateside/asian Netrunner players, but it could be important for those of you in Europe:

    http://fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5212

    FFG is merging with a French distributor/publisher

    It won't impact any UK based folks as Asmodee already own the UK distributor Esdevium, so expect no change to the 'amazing' service ;)

    Dis'
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Thoughts comparing Sagittarius with Ichi 1.0?

    Same rez cost, same strength, same influence. Sagittarius's main advantage seems to be that it can't be clicked through. At the same time, it has only the one subroutine, which isn't guaranteed a trash even if the runner doesn't break (unless you commit to spending an additional 3).

    I'm honestly not seeing many instances where I want Sagittarius over Ichi. Ichi is usually only rezzed when the runner doesn't have clicks left (or not many, anyway), or if you're deliberately trying to tax the runner. There's also no additional cost - 5 is a bit expensive to rez ice, and 8 is downright hard, even if you trash a program. Not being able to click through is good, but S4 does make it vulnerable to Atman and Datasucker+Mimic, and a single subroutine isn't hard to deal with.

  • Mikey CTSMikey CTS Registered User regular
    Yeah but Ichi is Str3 right? So Mimic can just walk through it for two credits.

    // PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    Str 4 with 3 subs...

  • Mikey CTSMikey CTS Registered User regular
    Huh... I thought that was Ichi 2.0.

    I dunno... I guess it depends on your build now. I could see Sagitarius being seriously taxing with that trace, and you still get to blow up a program? Ichi 1.0 is probably still better in most scenarios but I can see a home for Sagit.

    // PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
  • PowerpuppiesPowerpuppies Registered User regular
    Mikey CTS wrote: »
    Huh... I thought that was Ichi 2.0.

    I dunno... I guess it depends on your build now. I could see Sagitarius being seriously taxing with that trace, and you still get to blow up a program? Ichi 1.0 is probably still better in most scenarios but I can see a home for Sagit.

    Sagitarius is only taxing if you have a program out but not a sentry breaker that can hit strength 4... how often is that, and wouldn't you rather have a roto?

    sig.gif
  • Mikey CTSMikey CTS Registered User regular
    Not really. Roto is incredible vulnerable to Parasites, which nearly everyone is packing these days. I only run Roto in FA decks these days.

    I'm not saying it does in every deck, but it can have a home.

    // PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    I don't think I've run a roto in a deck in at least six months.

    I've never felt the need to try it out again, either.

  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    So, it turns out that spending all that time in the car listening to Terminal 7 has created an association in my brain between Netrunner and my Speedometer; whenever I glance at it, I think of the game.

    I haven't played it in over a week.

    This may be a problem.

    tzeentchling
  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Took a Leela Patel deck out for a spin tonight. Really fun! Definitely I think a runner that takes advantage of openings rather than plays strict control. Indexing is the better choice over RDI for that reason, same with Legwork I think. Having a credible archives threat is useful too. Can't wait for that incendiary somethingorother event in O&C that trashes duplicates of installed ice when you hit them in Archives. Was using a Hemorrhage, and it worked pretty well I think at keeping their hand size down and forcing them to deal with additional pressure. Have a sneaking suspicion that Crescentus is better than Emergency Shutdown.

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    Well, the big difference between Crescentus and ES is that for the former you have to get through the ice somehow first, whereas with ES you can hit any rezzed ice on the field.

    Crescentus is pretty great if you're prepared to break whatever ice might get rezzed, so that you can just derez it right away and run through to that server again, but I think ES opens up more options before you start running the relevant server.

  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    The problem with ES is that you have to run HQ first, in the same turn. When people see a blue runner in front of them, HQ is the first thing to get iced up, and usually the most heavy.

  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    True, but ES is more able to get you through big stuff like Archer, Janus, Heimdall etc. It'll also get you through a Lotus field if you're relying on Datasuckers for your Code Gate breaker.

    It's an interesting comparison, really. I feel like ES is a bit more flexible and better at taking down tough, dangerous, ice but Crescentus is good at capitalizing on a strong lead.

  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    Still playing starter decks on OCTGN, mainly as I'm just not wanting to invest the time in deck building. Just want to load a deck and go.

    I am learning about the wider card pool though as many people seem to want to play one game of core and then bust out their super deck 'just for fun'. Which is fair enough, they indulged me in a pleb game first so I'm happy to let them quickly wreck me and move on.

    Does feel good when you give them a run (lol) for the for their money though. Even managed a win with the core Kate deck! The corp deck was heavily code gate themed and by pure chance I dropped Gordian on turn 1 which helped.

    TingleSigBar.gif
  • Dis'Dis' Registered User regular
    That's a bit mean playing competitive quality decks against beginners, I like playing my silly decks against people with starters.

    Deck building is pretty fun though with all the online tools. The first step is cutting the stuff you dislike from the core decks and looking for better versions/increasing the numbers of the fun cards. The deluxe expansions have premade deck lists as well you could check out.

  • EpimerEpimer Registered User regular
    I think deck building can seem more intimidating than it really is to start with. Like, if you just start from the core Gabe decks and remove the Access to Globalsecs and add an actual code gate breaker and something else you liked from one of the other two decks then you've already built a better deck.

    CerberusxiearsInquisitor
  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    Still playing starter decks on OCTGN, mainly as I'm just not wanting to invest the time in deck building. Just want to load a deck and go.

    I am learning about the wider card pool though as many people seem to want to play one game of core and then bust out their super deck 'just for fun'. Which is fair enough, they indulged me in a pleb game first so I'm happy to let them quickly wreck me and move on.

    Does feel good when you give them a run (lol) for the for their money though. Even managed a win with the core Kate deck! The corp deck was heavily code gate themed and by pure chance I dropped Gordian on turn 1 which helped.

    Firstly, good work on winning with core set decks.
    Secondly, great tips from Dis' and Epimer.
    Finally, if you need any help deck building just let us know.

    In fact I can provide you with some solid core set only deck lists if you want to try them.

    ArcticLancer
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    I'm sure I'll come to it when I get bored of the starter decks. It's honestly time, not intimidation. Time spent building is time not spent playing and available play time can be very short these days!

    TingleSigBar.gif
  • AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    @Cerberus I'd be interested in seeing your Core-only decks even if I don't need them myself, just for use when teaching people.

    Even core set + What Lies Ahead would work, too.

  • SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    I would also like to see those deck lists.

  • Mikey CTSMikey CTS Registered User regular
    I love deck building. It's like a puzzle splayed out that I've got to solve.

    I don't always build and play with every deck I build, but it's a fun mental exercise.

    // PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
  • CerberusCerberus Registered User regular
    Anzekay wrote: »
    @Cerberus I'd be interested in seeing your Core-only decks even if I don't need them myself, just for use when teaching people.

    Even core set + What Lies Ahead would work, too.

    I'm phone posting but they are here:
    http://netrunners.co.uk/forumdirectory/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=107

    Happy to do other factions if you want them.

    Anzekay
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