Annie is kind of what a mage support should actually be.
Damage, utility, potential to scale into teamfight powerhouse.
She's overtuned for the role, but Annie's a good example of what a mage support needs in order to be a viable pick in Season 4. "My slow is 5% better if I'm ahead!" is not a compelling reason to take a low-damage AP support.
Every time I end up support I pick Annie and build sightstone followed by AP. By end game I'm getting double and triple kills ERRYWHERE.
My vote. Balanced.
I usually go dshield - coin - sightstone - talisman - mobility boots so by the team I can start building AP I'm way behind in damage.
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
Annie is kind of what a mage support should actually be.
Damage, utility, potential to scale into teamfight powerhouse.
She's overtuned for the role, but Annie's a good example of what a mage support needs in order to be a viable pick in Season 4. "My slow is 5% better if I'm ahead!" is not a compelling reason to take a low-damage AP support.
Every time I end up support I pick Annie and build sightstone followed by AP. By end game I'm getting double and triple kills ERRYWHERE.
My vote. Balanced.
Did that recent round of nerfs do much to really hurt support annie? Is she still worth banning?
Annie is kind of what a mage support should actually be.
Damage, utility, potential to scale into teamfight powerhouse.
She's overtuned for the role, but Annie's a good example of what a mage support needs in order to be a viable pick in Season 4. "My slow is 5% better if I'm ahead!" is not a compelling reason to take a low-damage AP support.
Every time I end up support I pick Annie and build sightstone followed by AP. By end game I'm getting double and triple kills ERRYWHERE.
My vote. Balanced.
Did that recent round of nerfs do much to really hurt support annie? Is she still worth banning?
I doubt it. She's only weaker early, and you still get a stun on command.
Right, I'm starting to think that DShield is the root of the problems here.
Increased gold in general.
Basically the power of your champion tends to scale up the more of a single type of stat you can stack on them. Leona and Thresh can just get tanky. Support items are tanky(either sustain or raw HP). So spending money on support items make Leona and Thresh stronger.
In Season 3 this was pretty OK because supports didn't have enough money to go much further than that. But now they do the tanky champions get an easy path into their second multiplicative item (armor/mr on top of HP) while AP/Non-tank supports have to start their first multiplicative item. When you add onto this additional abilities which scale with those first/second multiplicative items you get really big power swings.
Annie gets a pass because she gets free tank stats and because tibbers/stun is really strong.
It's probably what they consider it a delicate balance between characters that are so heavy on utility that if you handed them significant damage then why would you ever pick traditional mage picks for mid.
It looks to me that they consider defenses of much less value than damage on power economy, hence the Leona and Taric power. Where as handing out Annie levels of potential damage to Janna probably completely blows their character building economies straight to the moon.
But this is also retarded. Because the gold changes didn't change the power of champions in the mid lane and the utility supports already were not picked in mid.
Right, I'm starting to think that DShield is the root of the problems here.
Increased gold in general.
Basically the power of your champion tends to scale up the more of a single type of stat you can stack on them. Leona and Thresh can just get tanky. Support items are tanky(either sustain or raw HP). So spending money on support items make Leona and Thresh stronger.
In Season 3 this was pretty OK because supports didn't have enough money to go much further than that. But now they do the tanky champions get an easy path into their second multiplicative item (armor/mr on top of HP) while AP/Non-tank supports have to start their first multiplicative item. When you add onto this additional abilities which scale with those first/second multiplicative items you get really big power swings.
Annie gets a pass because she gets free tank stats and because tibbers/stun is really strong.
It's probably what they consider it a delicate balance between characters that are so heavy on utility that if you handed them significant damage then why would you ever pick traditional mage picks for mid.
It looks to me that they consider defenses of much less value than damage on power economy, hence the Leona and Taric power. Where as handing out Annie levels of potential damage to Janna probably completely blows their character building economies straight to the moon.
But this is also retarded. Because the gold changes didn't change the power of champions in the mid lane and the utility supports already were not picked in mid.
Yup, I'm totally sold on this line of thought. The increased gold both explains tanky support dominance and makes the mage <-> support interchange weirder than ever.
Well I'm 2 for 1 in my placements this time, although the last win was a 5vs4 after their AD carry disconnected.
I have realised that I hate being first pick. Especially since I'm usually playing support, and especially without knowing who I'm laning with or against. I feel like I'm giving away the strong supports like Annie/Leona if I don't pick them, but if I do I'm just inviting being countered. Plus if I pick an aggressive support, my carry will inevitably lock in Caitlyn and then proceed to ignore everything but the other team's minions for the next 30 minutes.
fray on
"I told you," said Ford. "Eddies in the space-time continuum."
"And this is his sofa, is it?" said Arthur.
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cptruggedI think it has something to do with free will.Registered Userregular
Annie is kind of what a mage support should actually be.
Damage, utility, potential to scale into teamfight powerhouse.
She's overtuned for the role, but Annie's a good example of what a mage support needs in order to be a viable pick in Season 4. "My slow is 5% better if I'm ahead!" is not a compelling reason to take a low-damage AP support.
Every time I end up support I pick Annie and build sightstone followed by AP. By end game I'm getting double and triple kills ERRYWHERE.
My vote. Balanced.
Why is a support getting kills worse though? The problem shouldn't be that an Annie with gold can get kills (SHE SHOULD). Is it because "support" lends itself to the idea that they shouldn't directly contribute and only contribute invisible power?
Wasn't that the meta we were all complaining about before this season?
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ExtreaminatusGo forth and amplify,the Noise Marines are here!Registered Userregular
Just had the best Fizz game of my life and I need to brag about it.
.
Riven got going early, but when late game rolled around, everyone on their team was trying to gangbang Mundo while we took them out. Feels good, man.
Nice game! I'm also a Fizz fan, some questions for you:
When did you get the Morellonomicon? Fizz doesn't actually need the passive because he already has Grievous Wounds on his W. Deathfire Grasp is more typical on Fizz, what are your thoughts?
I've also never seen someone go Barrier-Flash, usually it's Barrier - Ignite or Ignite - Flash. Do you miss having Ignite?
Also don't forget about boot enchants, trinket upgrades, or elixirs once you're all out of slots .
I got the Morellonomicon as a 6th item, partly because I forgot about the grievous wounds on W and because I was tired of Voli surviving because of his passive; but also because I can never remember to throw out the DFG active. I will keep that in mind for future games, though, and try to work on using it more.
I really don't miss having ignite, actually. With Fizz, I can either 100-0 with a combo or I can only bring them down to about half, so ignite hasn't really worked for me. With barrier, though, I have an oh shit button in case I flubb a combo or get caught out. Add flash to that, and if I can't kill them by the time they've burned through the shield, I can troll-poll/flash away as needed.
As for the boot enchants, trinket upgrades and elixirs: I am always fucking forgetting about them and I need to stop that.
My current champion pool (if you can call my mediocre skill a champ pool) is:
TEEMO
Jax
Udyr
Twisted Fate
Ziggs
Brand
Nami
Karma
Lulu
Tristana
Jinx
Kennen (I'm really bad with him)
I have others but these are the guys I've been playing.
I need another jungler, another top laner, and another ADC i think?
What should I be looking at given my limited time to learn a champion?
I play like 4 champions and I'm plat. Focus on learning the champs you like, don't overexpand your champion pool, as it will hurt you more than help you (in my opinion).
i feel like they're getting banned out a lot though!
Then you should adjust your champion pool. I really don't like playing the fotm or OP champions, I feel like they may get banned, someone else will pick them, or they are going to get nerfed, and you will have to relearn your damage threshholds (If it's a champ you play a lot, this isn't really a big deal, but you'll still be weaker after the nerfs). I love playing champions that are uncommon, like Lucian before he became fotm. I remember picking him in solo queue and someone dodged because I picked Lucian. Like.. huh.. I got Lucian the next game and went something like 22/5/10 if I remember right. I stopped playing Lucian when he became pick-or-ban.
I always run ignite on Fizz. Getting that early kill just seems so important for snowballing the lane.
Maybe it's a difference in playstyles (and why I'm perpetually stuck in Silver), but ignite has rarely made a difference for me. I'll def try it again, though, now I'm more comfortable with Fizz!
that is a pretty big drop from even thresh to annie.
I take support numbers with a grain of salt, because many support players aren't "support" players but "last person to call a role / last pick" players, so community perception of a champion's utility and ease-of-use would have an abnormally large influence on what champions are picked.
Leona and Thresh are super strong atm, but I think the support metagame is slower than it should be because less people actively try to game it. Potential counterpicks to Leona and Thresh are going to go unused since "I don't really play support but I guess I'll take Leona / Thresh" sounds pretty common.
ALL THAT SAID I wouldn't mind seeing those two nuked from orbit for a patch just so the community can figure out if any other support champions are viable.
I think they just need to seriously buff the traditional supports.
All that fear about the traditional supports being OP, so preemptive nerfs were necessary, hasn't proven to be accurate.
Exactly. It's not like Thresh / Leona are OP, it's that basically everyone else is undertuned. Plus, honestly, if Nami did end up doing too much damage with bubble for one patch, I think I'd manage to not let my entire life crumble around me in despair.
Which, by the way (not directed at you), I said they would be months ago, so +1 to me being right.
that is a pretty big drop from even thresh to annie.
I take support numbers with a grain of salt, because many support players aren't "support" players but "last person to call a role / last pick" players, so community perception of a champion's utility and ease-of-use would have an abnormally large influence on what champions are picked.
Leona and Thresh are super strong atm, but I think the support metagame is slower than it should be because less people actively try to game it. Potential counterpicks to Leona and Thresh are going to go unused since "I don't really play support but I guess I'll take Leona / Thresh" sounds pretty common.
ALL THAT SAID I wouldn't mind seeing those two nuked from orbit for a patch just so the community can figure out if any other support champions are viable.
I think they just need to seriously buff the traditional supports.
All that fear about the traditional supports being OP, so preemptive nerfs were necessary, hasn't proven to be accurate.
Exactly. It's not like Thresh / Leona are OP, it's that basically everyone else is undertuned. Plus, honestly, if Nami did end up doing too much damage with bubble for one patch, I think I'd manage to not let my entire life crumble around me in despair.
Which, by the way (not directed at you), I said they would be months ago, so +1 to me being right.
Well many people of these boards looked at the changes and got really excited...
See, on one hand I kind of feel people and their 'omg supports didn't need nerfed' statements.
On the other I recall Sona out DPSing Vayne in ARAMs and such. Or Janna being able to take off half a persons health with a Q/W combo.
I mean there is a reason that pre-change having a support on your team in ARAM was considered GG, because them having items was pretty much broken. They maybe went about it a bit hamhanded, but 600 damage Sona Qs will not be missed.
See, on one hand I kind of feel people and their 'omg supports didn't need nerfed' statements.
On the other I recall Sona out DPSing Vayne in ARAMs and such. Or Janna being able to take off half a persons health with a Q/W combo.
I mean there is a reason that pre-change having a support on your team in ARAM was considered GG, because them having items was pretty much broken. They maybe went about it a bit hamhanded, but 600 damage Sona Qs will not be missed.
If they were as broken as you say, why wouldn't you use Sona or Janna in mid?
Supports are gg in aram because they have sustain, not because they have big damage. Janna can get you to 50 with one q/w? That would be impressive if the same 2-skill combo from gragas didn't bring you to 33% or lower.
Supports are gg in aram because you're team fighting from right off the bat and because supports at early levels teamfight like bosses due to their utility.
Sona in particular has a lot of sustain and few worries about her poor skirmish survivability due to always having her front line there. (Her early free stats aren't bad either).
That being said Sona would have been one of the champions it would be right to worry about running away with a game if no changes were made. This is because Sona wins lane really hard and due to the assist streak gold this means that snowballing bottom lane is even more powerful than it was last season.
So sona nerfs make a lot of sense. Janna nerfs on the other hand don't. Janna doesn't win lanes like Sona did. Janna always won by late game power which was dampened by the increased power of snowballing.
I played first pick thresh. They picked cait. My adc picks ezreal. They pick Annie. My adc rushes sheen. I did not realize this and due to a bit of bad timing on Annie's ult an easy double kill for us means that cait instead picks up two. Things continue to go poorly bottom lane but we hold the tower and start trading my deaths (of which there were a lot) for kills on our carries.
But I bring things back. I get a super strong pick on their jungler which lead to a 5 for 1 ace and mid inner tower for us. We push in and siege their mid inhib and I get another pick just off the tower which leads to a 5 for 0 ace and the inhib.
We get bot lane pushing but fail the engage siege on bot tower. We lose a team fight 3 for 1 and they try baron. Elise and I poke at the edges and take out their support just as Elise steals baron 50/50 from vi. She dies for it but I get away.
We get bot lane pushing and now i have randuins, talisman, and locket. They have lee, vi, cait, Leblanc and Annie. We push mid inhibitor and I lure lee and vi out as they hit me then just am like "lol we are turning this" pop all the actives hook Annie toss the lantern for katarina pop the box on lee and vi and kararina and I all all up in your back line while your front line isn't going anywhere. We win
Win game and the end I am like Ezreal please no sheen first vs cait and cait is all "lol you got carried". Our 10 kill Katarina is all "lol no thresh was awesome"
See, on one hand I kind of feel people and their 'omg supports didn't need nerfed' statements.
On the other I recall Sona out DPSing Vayne in ARAMs and such. Or Janna being able to take off half a persons health with a Q/W combo.
I mean there is a reason that pre-change having a support on your team in ARAM was considered GG, because them having items was pretty much broken. They maybe went about it a bit hamhanded, but 600 damage Sona Qs will not be missed.
If they were as broken as you say, why wouldn't you use Sona or Janna in mid?
Supports are gg in aram because they have sustain, not because they have big damage. Janna can get you to 50 with one q/w? That would be impressive if the same 2-skill combo from gragas didn't bring you to 33% or lower.
You didn't use Sona or Janna mid because they were usually bot. Same reason people don't really use Annie mid anymore. Because she's down in bot lane now.
Janna mid was still a pretty damn nice pick mid and was pretty much in the position Ziggs is in now wherein she could clear waves instantly and hold off seiges all on her own.
Why no Sona mid? Gods know, her combo did over 1500 damage at one point. I'd assume, because yet again, it was better to just have her in bottom lane because for the longest time she was pretty much the best pick.
IRT Gragas: Her Q used to be a higher base and slightly lower ratio then his. It was also longer range and hits everyone in its path. Zephyr also didn't require you to get into melee range so it was a totally safe move to do. Also after the nerf Zephyr is still as good in the single target damage department as E'ing in as Gragas.
So I mean, she'd do more damage with her poke combo, hit more things, clear a wave without having to have it bunch up and do it from much more safety. (Oh, also, it'd slow her target.)
With his ult he can outdamage her, easily, but I mean that's cool. Every 2~1 1/2 minutes he gets to outdamage a support. Super. Super great. But he wasn't outdamaging her combo with his combo in any other situation.
You didn't use Sona or Janna mid because they were usually bot. Same reason people don't really use Annie mid anymore. Because she's down in bot lane now.
Nah, you didn't use Sona mid because her wave clear is terrible, she had no way of defending herself against ganks and her AP damage ratios were pretty low compared to most mid laners. 0.7 on her primary damage skill (and only damaging normal ability) isn't exactly setting the world on fire. Additionally, since her Q only hits two targets, if she's your team's main source of magic damage you're going to be at a disadvantage in teamfights compared to - say - Gragas being able to throw out AOE damage with a 0.9 AP ratio. Her range being mediocre doesn't help, either.
A full build Sona was strong (I played her a lot on Dominion), but something like managing to out-duel a Vayne would almost always have required blowing her ult, dodging wallstuns and generally outplaying the Vayne.
Bot lane right now is just a giant murder fest. Leona/Thresh are overwhelmingly strong (Tanky, CC, utility AND burst damage? Yes plz) and ranged utility/burst/CC (At this point only Annie and Lulu) are nearly as effective.
If one team gets Jinx/Thresh that's pretty much game over for bot lane. Thresh's lantern makes up for Jinx's immobility and if you get caught by one CC (chompers, hook, flay) you're chained into 3 more and pretty much dead.
Jinx is still overtuned after nerfs and solo queue doesn't have the Korean tournament coordination required to make her a nonfactor.
Everyone who was diamond last season placed in plat, so this synergy chart is pretty educational. As someone who doesn't like to play Jinx OR Thresh, if they're not banned I'm not going to be having much fun. Bot lane always seems to get choked into a few strong matchups every patch based on changes, and when it's not something you like to play it's pretty shit.
See, on one hand I kind of feel people and their 'omg supports didn't need nerfed' statements.
On the other I recall Sona out DPSing Vayne in ARAMs and such. Or Janna being able to take off half a persons health with a Q/W combo.
I mean there is a reason that pre-change having a support on your team in ARAM was considered GG, because them having items was pretty much broken. They maybe went about it a bit hamhanded, but 600 damage Sona Qs will not be missed.
If they were as broken as you say, why wouldn't you use Sona or Janna in mid?
Supports are gg in aram because they have sustain, not because they have big damage. Janna can get you to 50 with one q/w? That would be impressive if the same 2-skill combo from gragas didn't bring you to 33% or lower.
You didn't use Sona or Janna mid because they were usually bot. Same reason people don't really use Annie mid anymore. Because she's down in bot lane now.
Janna mid was still a pretty damn nice pick mid and was pretty much in the position Ziggs is in now wherein she could clear waves instantly and hold off seiges all on her own.
Why no Sona mid? Gods know, her combo did over 1500 damage at one point. I'd assume, because yet again, it was better to just have her in bottom lane because for the longest time she was pretty much the best pick.
IRT Gragas: Her Q used to be a higher base and slightly lower ratio then his. It was also longer range and hits everyone in its path. Zephyr also didn't require you to get into melee range so it was a totally safe move to do. Also after the nerf Zephyr is still as good in the single target damage department as E'ing in as Gragas.
So I mean, she'd do more damage with her poke combo, hit more things, clear a wave without having to have it bunch up and do it from much more safety. (Oh, also, it'd slow her target.)
With his ult he can outdamage her, easily, but I mean that's cool. Every 2~1 1/2 minutes he gets to outdamage a support. Super. Super great. But he wasn't outdamaging her combo with his combo in any other situation.
Janna really wasn't a strong pick mid. Her ratios and utility were never strong enough to do anything but clear waves. Her ult has effectively no damage or heal on it unless you have another strong source of threat which won't get blown up.
Plenty of mids can clear waves. Plenty of mids can self peel. Plenty of mids have decent ap scaling shields. Plenty of mids have AOE cc. Plenty can do all of these at the same time.
Sona was never good mid because her damage is low and requires you to not be csing to use. Additionally she has never been a late game strong support.
The idea that people weren't playing sona and Janna mid because they were bot lane is ridiculous. People weren't playing sona and Janna mid because sona and Janna are/were not good solo laners.
I'm pretty sure I've only ever lost 1 game as Jinx. I avoid ADC whenever possible but it's still something like 10-1 (only in normals though). I have the same issues with her as at release - the arm time of flame chompers is basically irrelevant and her 100% uptime attack speed buff is too good.
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Bot lane right now is just a giant murder fest. Leona/Thresh are overwhelmingly strong (Tanky, CC, utility AND burst damage? Yes plz) and ranged utility/burst/CC (At this point only Annie and Lulu) are nearly as effective.
If one team gets Jinx/Thresh that's pretty much game over for bot lane. Thresh's lantern makes up for Jinx's immobility and if you get caught by one CC (chompers, hook, flay) you're chained into 3 more and pretty much dead.
Jinx is still overtuned after nerfs and solo queue doesn't have the Korean tournament coordination required to make her a nonfactor.
Everyone who was diamond last season placed in plat, so this synergy chart is pretty educational. As someone who doesn't like to play Jinx OR Thresh, if they're not banned I'm not going to be having much fun. Bot lane always seems to get choked into a few strong matchups every patch based on changes, and when it's not something you like to play it's pretty shit.
HOLY FUCK
THAT VARUS + FIDDLE WINRATE
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
Bot lane right now is just a giant murder fest. Leona/Thresh are overwhelmingly strong (Tanky, CC, utility AND burst damage? Yes plz) and ranged utility/burst/CC (At this point only Annie and Lulu) are nearly as effective.
If one team gets Jinx/Thresh that's pretty much game over for bot lane. Thresh's lantern makes up for Jinx's immobility and if you get caught by one CC (chompers, hook, flay) you're chained into 3 more and pretty much dead.
Jinx is still overtuned after nerfs and solo queue doesn't have the Korean tournament coordination required to make her a nonfactor.
Everyone who was diamond last season placed in plat, so this synergy chart is pretty educational. As someone who doesn't like to play Jinx OR Thresh, if they're not banned I'm not going to be having much fun. Bot lane always seems to get choked into a few strong matchups every patch based on changes, and when it's not something you like to play it's pretty shit.
HOLY FUCK
THAT VARUS + FIDDLE WINRATE
Check out Corki + Zyra
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
Bot lane right now is just a giant murder fest. Leona/Thresh are overwhelmingly strong (Tanky, CC, utility AND burst damage? Yes plz) and ranged utility/burst/CC (At this point only Annie and Lulu) are nearly as effective.
If one team gets Jinx/Thresh that's pretty much game over for bot lane. Thresh's lantern makes up for Jinx's immobility and if you get caught by one CC (chompers, hook, flay) you're chained into 3 more and pretty much dead.
Jinx is still overtuned after nerfs and solo queue doesn't have the Korean tournament coordination required to make her a nonfactor.
Everyone who was diamond last season placed in plat, so this synergy chart is pretty educational. As someone who doesn't like to play Jinx OR Thresh, if they're not banned I'm not going to be having much fun. Bot lane always seems to get choked into a few strong matchups every patch based on changes, and when it's not something you like to play it's pretty shit.
HOLY FUCK
THAT VARUS + FIDDLE WINRATE
Go to monthly and it goes away. Just a variance issue.
That being said the two of them have strong level 1 poke and one hell of a whombo combo at 6.
Bot lane right now is just a giant murder fest. Leona/Thresh are overwhelmingly strong (Tanky, CC, utility AND burst damage? Yes plz) and ranged utility/burst/CC (At this point only Annie and Lulu) are nearly as effective.
If one team gets Jinx/Thresh that's pretty much game over for bot lane. Thresh's lantern makes up for Jinx's immobility and if you get caught by one CC (chompers, hook, flay) you're chained into 3 more and pretty much dead.
Jinx is still overtuned after nerfs and solo queue doesn't have the Korean tournament coordination required to make her a nonfactor.
Everyone who was diamond last season placed in plat, so this synergy chart is pretty educational. As someone who doesn't like to play Jinx OR Thresh, if they're not banned I'm not going to be having much fun. Bot lane always seems to get choked into a few strong matchups every patch based on changes, and when it's not something you like to play it's pretty shit.
HOLY FUCK
THAT VARUS + FIDDLE WINRATE
Check out Corki + Zyra
New meta inc. Next round of LCS only Varus/Fiddle v Zyra/Corki.
And then in 6 months all bot lanes will be Twitch V Ashe.
Looking at the number of games played is important to understanding the relevance of the data. Some of those outliers are anywhere from 30-120 games played. This could be an organized duo stomping through just because they're very well coordinated.
Looking at the number of games played is important to understanding the relevance of the data. Some of those outliers are anywhere from 30-120 games played. This could be an organized duo stomping through just because they're very well coordinated.
Well Varus + finds does have a lot of synergy. Their level 1 "welcome to lane" power is substantial. Their level 6 combo is really strong (if varus hits his ult this guarantees that fids has time to ult and fear the target after he ults with no response from the enemy possible (unless they have a targeted stun and fids is in range).
Plus Varus is actually a good adc anyways so you've got power there too.
Twitch + Alistar are at 15.38% Alistar is in desperate need of some love.
The recentish change to his w made him more or less unplayable because you can't reliably hit his combo anymore.
Primarily his passive and mana costs should be looked at but I don't think that riot will do anything to him until they gut his e and therefor the rest of his kit too.
I was watching krepo stream duo with yellowpete. They make bot lane seem far more interesting than it is when I play it with their good communication and execution.
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I usually go dshield - coin - sightstone - talisman - mobility boots so by the team I can start building AP I'm way behind in damage.
Did that recent round of nerfs do much to really hurt support annie? Is she still worth banning?
I doubt it. She's only weaker early, and you still get a stun on command.
Increased gold in general.
Basically the power of your champion tends to scale up the more of a single type of stat you can stack on them. Leona and Thresh can just get tanky. Support items are tanky(either sustain or raw HP). So spending money on support items make Leona and Thresh stronger.
In Season 3 this was pretty OK because supports didn't have enough money to go much further than that. But now they do the tanky champions get an easy path into their second multiplicative item (armor/mr on top of HP) while AP/Non-tank supports have to start their first multiplicative item. When you add onto this additional abilities which scale with those first/second multiplicative items you get really big power swings.
Annie gets a pass because she gets free tank stats and because tibbers/stun is really strong.
But this is also retarded. Because the gold changes didn't change the power of champions in the mid lane and the utility supports already were not picked in mid.
I'm so sorry sonelan! I swear to god I didn't know she sucked that game!
Yup, I'm totally sold on this line of thought. The increased gold both explains tanky support dominance and makes the mage <-> support interchange weirder than ever.
I have realised that I hate being first pick. Especially since I'm usually playing support, and especially without knowing who I'm laning with or against. I feel like I'm giving away the strong supports like Annie/Leona if I don't pick them, but if I do I'm just inviting being countered. Plus if I pick an aggressive support, my carry will inevitably lock in Caitlyn and then proceed to ignore everything but the other team's minions for the next 30 minutes.
"And this is his sofa, is it?" said Arthur.
Why is a support getting kills worse though? The problem shouldn't be that an Annie with gold can get kills (SHE SHOULD). Is it because "support" lends itself to the idea that they shouldn't directly contribute and only contribute invisible power?
Wasn't that the meta we were all complaining about before this season?
I got the Morellonomicon as a 6th item, partly because I forgot about the grievous wounds on W and because I was tired of Voli surviving because of his passive; but also because I can never remember to throw out the DFG active. I will keep that in mind for future games, though, and try to work on using it more.
I really don't miss having ignite, actually. With Fizz, I can either 100-0 with a combo or I can only bring them down to about half, so ignite hasn't really worked for me. With barrier, though, I have an oh shit button in case I flubb a combo or get caught out. Add flash to that, and if I can't kill them by the time they've burned through the shield, I can troll-poll/flash away as needed.
As for the boot enchants, trinket upgrades and elixirs: I am always fucking forgetting about them and I need to stop that.
Fizz.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Maybe it's a difference in playstyles (and why I'm perpetually stuck in Silver), but ignite has rarely made a difference for me. I'll def try it again, though, now I'm more comfortable with Fizz!
He doesn't even have ears.
it's like cait's belts
Joe's Stream.
Exactly. It's not like Thresh / Leona are OP, it's that basically everyone else is undertuned. Plus, honestly, if Nami did end up doing too much damage with bubble for one patch, I think I'd manage to not let my entire life crumble around me in despair.
Which, by the way (not directed at you), I said they would be months ago, so +1 to me being right.
Well many people of these boards looked at the changes and got really excited...
then we saw the supports nerfs and we were like
wut?
On the other I recall Sona out DPSing Vayne in ARAMs and such. Or Janna being able to take off half a persons health with a Q/W combo.
I mean there is a reason that pre-change having a support on your team in ARAM was considered GG, because them having items was pretty much broken. They maybe went about it a bit hamhanded, but 600 damage Sona Qs will not be missed.
If they were as broken as you say, why wouldn't you use Sona or Janna in mid?
Supports are gg in aram because they have sustain, not because they have big damage. Janna can get you to 50 with one q/w? That would be impressive if the same 2-skill combo from gragas didn't bring you to 33% or lower.
Sona in particular has a lot of sustain and few worries about her poor skirmish survivability due to always having her front line there. (Her early free stats aren't bad either).
That being said Sona would have been one of the champions it would be right to worry about running away with a game if no changes were made. This is because Sona wins lane really hard and due to the assist streak gold this means that snowballing bottom lane is even more powerful than it was last season.
So sona nerfs make a lot of sense. Janna nerfs on the other hand don't. Janna doesn't win lanes like Sona did. Janna always won by late game power which was dampened by the increased power of snowballing.
I played first pick thresh. They picked cait. My adc picks ezreal. They pick Annie. My adc rushes sheen. I did not realize this and due to a bit of bad timing on Annie's ult an easy double kill for us means that cait instead picks up two. Things continue to go poorly bottom lane but we hold the tower and start trading my deaths (of which there were a lot) for kills on our carries.
But I bring things back. I get a super strong pick on their jungler which lead to a 5 for 1 ace and mid inner tower for us. We push in and siege their mid inhib and I get another pick just off the tower which leads to a 5 for 0 ace and the inhib.
We get bot lane pushing but fail the engage siege on bot tower. We lose a team fight 3 for 1 and they try baron. Elise and I poke at the edges and take out their support just as Elise steals baron 50/50 from vi. She dies for it but I get away.
We get bot lane pushing and now i have randuins, talisman, and locket. They have lee, vi, cait, Leblanc and Annie. We push mid inhibitor and I lure lee and vi out as they hit me then just am like "lol we are turning this" pop all the actives hook Annie toss the lantern for katarina pop the box on lee and vi and kararina and I all all up in your back line while your front line isn't going anywhere. We win
Win game and the end I am like Ezreal please no sheen first vs cait and cait is all "lol you got carried". Our 10 kill Katarina is all "lol no thresh was awesome"
You didn't use Sona or Janna mid because they were usually bot. Same reason people don't really use Annie mid anymore. Because she's down in bot lane now.
Janna mid was still a pretty damn nice pick mid and was pretty much in the position Ziggs is in now wherein she could clear waves instantly and hold off seiges all on her own.
Why no Sona mid? Gods know, her combo did over 1500 damage at one point. I'd assume, because yet again, it was better to just have her in bottom lane because for the longest time she was pretty much the best pick.
IRT Gragas: Her Q used to be a higher base and slightly lower ratio then his. It was also longer range and hits everyone in its path. Zephyr also didn't require you to get into melee range so it was a totally safe move to do. Also after the nerf Zephyr is still as good in the single target damage department as E'ing in as Gragas.
So I mean, she'd do more damage with her poke combo, hit more things, clear a wave without having to have it bunch up and do it from much more safety. (Oh, also, it'd slow her target.)
With his ult he can outdamage her, easily, but I mean that's cool. Every 2~1 1/2 minutes he gets to outdamage a support. Super. Super great. But he wasn't outdamaging her combo with his combo in any other situation.
Nah, you didn't use Sona mid because her wave clear is terrible, she had no way of defending herself against ganks and her AP damage ratios were pretty low compared to most mid laners. 0.7 on her primary damage skill (and only damaging normal ability) isn't exactly setting the world on fire. Additionally, since her Q only hits two targets, if she's your team's main source of magic damage you're going to be at a disadvantage in teamfights compared to - say - Gragas being able to throw out AOE damage with a 0.9 AP ratio. Her range being mediocre doesn't help, either.
A full build Sona was strong (I played her a lot on Dominion), but something like managing to out-duel a Vayne would almost always have required blowing her ult, dodging wallstuns and generally outplaying the Vayne.
If one team gets Jinx/Thresh that's pretty much game over for bot lane. Thresh's lantern makes up for Jinx's immobility and if you get caught by one CC (chompers, hook, flay) you're chained into 3 more and pretty much dead.
Jinx is still overtuned after nerfs and solo queue doesn't have the Korean tournament coordination required to make her a nonfactor.
http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=na&type=bottom-synergy&range=weekly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=platinum
Everyone who was diamond last season placed in plat, so this synergy chart is pretty educational. As someone who doesn't like to play Jinx OR Thresh, if they're not banned I'm not going to be having much fun. Bot lane always seems to get choked into a few strong matchups every patch based on changes, and when it's not something you like to play it's pretty shit.
Janna really wasn't a strong pick mid. Her ratios and utility were never strong enough to do anything but clear waves. Her ult has effectively no damage or heal on it unless you have another strong source of threat which won't get blown up.
Plenty of mids can clear waves. Plenty of mids can self peel. Plenty of mids have decent ap scaling shields. Plenty of mids have AOE cc. Plenty can do all of these at the same time.
Sona was never good mid because her damage is low and requires you to not be csing to use. Additionally she has never been a late game strong support.
The idea that people weren't playing sona and Janna mid because they were bot lane is ridiculous. People weren't playing sona and Janna mid because sona and Janna are/were not good solo laners.
HOLY FUCK
THAT VARUS + FIDDLE WINRATE
Check out Corki + Zyra
Go to monthly and it goes away. Just a variance issue.
That being said the two of them have strong level 1 poke and one hell of a whombo combo at 6.
New meta inc. Next round of LCS only Varus/Fiddle v Zyra/Corki.
And then in 6 months all bot lanes will be Twitch V Ashe.
Well Varus + finds does have a lot of synergy. Their level 1 "welcome to lane" power is substantial. Their level 6 combo is really strong (if varus hits his ult this guarantees that fids has time to ult and fear the target after he ults with no response from the enemy possible (unless they have a targeted stun and fids is in range).
Plus Varus is actually a good adc anyways so you've got power there too.
The recentish change to his w made him more or less unplayable because you can't reliably hit his combo anymore.
Primarily his passive and mana costs should be looked at but I don't think that riot will do anything to him until they gut his e and therefor the rest of his kit too.