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Tank [Chat]
Thomamelas
Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
So a couple of decades back, a group of guys in these:
Took on a bunch of guys in these:
And won. Not only did they win but they went on to give us the best war name of all time. The Toyota War. It's really the last war in a series of wars that involve Libya meddling in Chad's Civil War and providing material, logistical support to various proxies and in Toyota War providing actual boots on the ground. The high level overview is that Libya wanted the Aouzou Strip. Officially they wanted it because the local people were vassals to a group which were vassals to the Ottoman Empire and Libya claimed to have inherited the linage of the group owing vassalage to the Ottoman Empire. The real reason is that there are indicators that the area is rich in oil and uranium. But the Aouzou Strip while disputed was effectively controlled by Chad. Oh and it would annoy the French.
So in 1986, the people of Chad finally found something to unite them. A hatred of Muammar Gaddafi. Libyan forces attacked the Tibesti region and managed to push out GUNT forces. But their use of napalm managed to anger the people of Chad enough that they stopped shooting at each other and started to prepare to shoot at the Libyans. And they found a pair of allies who also had a hate on for Gaddafi. France and the US. The US made a large quanity of Stinger missiles and Toyota Hiluxes available to the forces of Chad.
France made the MILAN missile system available in bulk to those forces as well.
These two weapon systems combined with the mobility and rugged durability of the Hiluxes became critical. Because on paper, Hassan Djamous was facing one of the best equipped armies in the region. Libya spent a fair amount of it's incoming oil money on building up a large military force. One that in theory had several years of combat experience gained assisting their proxies. But Djamous has some aces up his sleeve now, so he sets out to attack Fada in January, where the Libyan forward position was.
That map is nice but lets look at the terrain around Fada.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=fada+chad&hl=en&ll=17.174087,21.589079&spn=0.038091,0.039825&sll=29.817178,-95.401291&sspn=1.10688,1.274414&hnear=Fada,+Chad&t=h&z=15
To the northeast you've got an asteroid crater. You have some big rock outcroppings all over the place. And the rest of the place is sand. This is not where you want to fight a tank battle. This is mechanized infantry country. But the Libyans found that they didn't have much infantry. They had been depending on their proxies who had switched sides to provide that role. So they had far too little infantry to defend this area. The forces from Chad had spent quite a bit of time engaging in reconnaissance and had also discovered several paths the Libyans hadn't found. Djamous made use of the Hiluxes to deploy his forces and they engaged the 1,300 troops stationed there.
By the time the battle was over, almost 100 Libyan T-55s had been destroyed along with 30 BMP-1s. 13 tanks were captured along with almost 20 BMPs. Almost 800 of the 1,300 troops were dead. The forces from Chad had lost 18 soldiers and 3 Toyotas. A lot of the histories written about the Battle of Fada don't give Djamous enough credit. He made excellent use of the resources available to him and executed the tactics needed very well.
Gaddafi didn't take this loss well. He ordered air strikes into Chad. France responded by destroying the radar at the Ouadi Doum airbase. By March Chadian forces had captured the airbase. This time they faced larger defenses. 5,000 troops with air cover and a defensive minefield. The battle still ended up in a rout of the Libyan forces. Two columns that had been sent south were hammered outside the base, with the panicked forces running back to the airbase, through the minefield. Casualties were high but the survivors caused a panic at the airbase. Almost 90 T-55s were captured or destroyed. 120 BMP-1s were also captured and destroyed. Most of the aircraft at the base was captured intact. Including two SF.260s, three Hind Helicopters, two Tu-22B bombers, and eleven L-39 jets. T-62 tanks were found unmoved and in showroom condition. Artillery batteries were taken intact. Most of the estimates put the value of what was destroyed or taken in the battle at between $500 million to a $1 billion dollars.
At the point the war is effectively over. Libya has been humiliated but declares it all a victory and they are leaving their proxy forces to finish off the final glorious battle. The forces of Chad try to push up harder into the Aouzou Strip but end up repulsed. Libya asks for a cease fire and is granted it. There is various bits of wrangling with the UN and international courts but Chad ends up with possession of the Aouzou Strip.
Now I want to bring up something. The internet has a general love of asymmetrical warfare, to the point where people tend to think of it as an "I win" button rather than warfare of desperation. Some people might be tempted to look at this an example. But I want to point out that the reason Chad had little success attacking into the Aouzou Strip was that the supply of weapons from the US and France ended the moment they tried. And with the supply of weapons drying up, so did the success of Chad's forces.
But what it did do is change war in Africa. Technicals became a thing and you see Hiluxes in pretty much every war in Africa from that point on.
Took on a bunch of guys in these:
And won. Not only did they win but they went on to give us the best war name of all time. The Toyota War. It's really the last war in a series of wars that involve Libya meddling in Chad's Civil War and providing material, logistical support to various proxies and in Toyota War providing actual boots on the ground. The high level overview is that Libya wanted the Aouzou Strip. Officially they wanted it because the local people were vassals to a group which were vassals to the Ottoman Empire and Libya claimed to have inherited the linage of the group owing vassalage to the Ottoman Empire. The real reason is that there are indicators that the area is rich in oil and uranium. But the Aouzou Strip while disputed was effectively controlled by Chad. Oh and it would annoy the French.
So in 1986, the people of Chad finally found something to unite them. A hatred of Muammar Gaddafi. Libyan forces attacked the Tibesti region and managed to push out GUNT forces. But their use of napalm managed to anger the people of Chad enough that they stopped shooting at each other and started to prepare to shoot at the Libyans. And they found a pair of allies who also had a hate on for Gaddafi. France and the US. The US made a large quanity of Stinger missiles and Toyota Hiluxes available to the forces of Chad.
France made the MILAN missile system available in bulk to those forces as well.
These two weapon systems combined with the mobility and rugged durability of the Hiluxes became critical. Because on paper, Hassan Djamous was facing one of the best equipped armies in the region. Libya spent a fair amount of it's incoming oil money on building up a large military force. One that in theory had several years of combat experience gained assisting their proxies. But Djamous has some aces up his sleeve now, so he sets out to attack Fada in January, where the Libyan forward position was.
That map is nice but lets look at the terrain around Fada.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=fada+chad&hl=en&ll=17.174087,21.589079&spn=0.038091,0.039825&sll=29.817178,-95.401291&sspn=1.10688,1.274414&hnear=Fada,+Chad&t=h&z=15
To the northeast you've got an asteroid crater. You have some big rock outcroppings all over the place. And the rest of the place is sand. This is not where you want to fight a tank battle. This is mechanized infantry country. But the Libyans found that they didn't have much infantry. They had been depending on their proxies who had switched sides to provide that role. So they had far too little infantry to defend this area. The forces from Chad had spent quite a bit of time engaging in reconnaissance and had also discovered several paths the Libyans hadn't found. Djamous made use of the Hiluxes to deploy his forces and they engaged the 1,300 troops stationed there.
By the time the battle was over, almost 100 Libyan T-55s had been destroyed along with 30 BMP-1s. 13 tanks were captured along with almost 20 BMPs. Almost 800 of the 1,300 troops were dead. The forces from Chad had lost 18 soldiers and 3 Toyotas. A lot of the histories written about the Battle of Fada don't give Djamous enough credit. He made excellent use of the resources available to him and executed the tactics needed very well.
Gaddafi didn't take this loss well. He ordered air strikes into Chad. France responded by destroying the radar at the Ouadi Doum airbase. By March Chadian forces had captured the airbase. This time they faced larger defenses. 5,000 troops with air cover and a defensive minefield. The battle still ended up in a rout of the Libyan forces. Two columns that had been sent south were hammered outside the base, with the panicked forces running back to the airbase, through the minefield. Casualties were high but the survivors caused a panic at the airbase. Almost 90 T-55s were captured or destroyed. 120 BMP-1s were also captured and destroyed. Most of the aircraft at the base was captured intact. Including two SF.260s, three Hind Helicopters, two Tu-22B bombers, and eleven L-39 jets. T-62 tanks were found unmoved and in showroom condition. Artillery batteries were taken intact. Most of the estimates put the value of what was destroyed or taken in the battle at between $500 million to a $1 billion dollars.
At the point the war is effectively over. Libya has been humiliated but declares it all a victory and they are leaving their proxy forces to finish off the final glorious battle. The forces of Chad try to push up harder into the Aouzou Strip but end up repulsed. Libya asks for a cease fire and is granted it. There is various bits of wrangling with the UN and international courts but Chad ends up with possession of the Aouzou Strip.
Now I want to bring up something. The internet has a general love of asymmetrical warfare, to the point where people tend to think of it as an "I win" button rather than warfare of desperation. Some people might be tempted to look at this an example. But I want to point out that the reason Chad had little success attacking into the Aouzou Strip was that the supply of weapons from the US and France ended the moment they tried. And with the supply of weapons drying up, so did the success of Chad's forces.
But what it did do is change war in Africa. Technicals became a thing and you see Hiluxes in pretty much every war in Africa from that point on.
Hassan Djamous, father of the Technical and a man who rocks a bitching Afro.
+11
This discussion has been closed.
Posts
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
and it was p cool then too
When I say that I use the history thread as a storage place for Chat OPs, I wasn't kidding.
Used in Algeria and Vietnam. And I'm lead to believe it was fired in that configuration a few times in desperation, although it wasn't designed for that.
riding that thing has to feel
empowering
I think 1 to 2 shifted genres harder, but that's not something I've thought about a ton.
I mostly wanted to say that that is indeed because of the default stuff. I have done nothing gritty, I've basically been space Jesus saving everything I come across.
Except the reapers. Fuck those guys.
Also actually fuck the Quarians. I saved them and they are all super happy and bros with the Geth now, but the scene talking with the admiral that opened fire on the reaper was one of the only times in the game I chose renegade conversation options to dig in how much I hated him, then punched him. That interrupt option had been up for like a quarter of a second, I was so on it.
It's because they make you run through every level twice.
And the second time is an escort quest to boot.
It saps your will to play.
If you have been playing your cards right from the beginning like cosmic superhero Jake Shepard, most of 3 is this awesome power fantasy where every good deed you ever did two games ago comes back to you in the form of extra ships, NPCs, ways out of impossible problems, etc.
Mass Effect 2
Wing Commander
River City Ransom
Baldur's Gate
Dragon Age: Origins
Total Annihilation
Ultima Online
Heavy Rain
Quest for Glory 2: Trial By Fire
LittleBigPlanet 2
Edit: I would have included Team Fortress 2 but because of the very transient nature of it I couldn't be certain my feelings would be the same even a year from now
Jane Shepard apparently never made a wrong decision in her life and as a consequence has been receiving constant cosmic blowjobs for like thirty hours straight.
we got a total fuckin' alcoholic
we got a thing they call a cyber girl
Right, because in 3, with the default options:
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
1. Libya is a prime example of having shinny toys and absolutely no ability to use them.
2. Small scrappy upstarts can win. When they have a backing of a serious power. But it becomes way easier if you have a superpower trying to make a point about the enemy of their enemy being a useful tool to humiliate your enemy.
Limbo
MarioKart
Uncharted series
Bastion
What did you do?
Probably NSFW
hm
mass effect trilogy
majora's mask
symphony of the night
resident evil 4
persona 4
shadow of the colossus
metroid prime
super metroid
fallout new vegas
chrono trigger
yessss
you got through that last dungeon (or next to last, the one before you fight the Raincoat Killer) realy quickly, that one is interminable
and yeah I think DP's ending really does a lovely job kind of wrapping up and explaining the entire thing. I ama genuinely amazed at how much sense it all made in retrospect.
It's a small thing, but I also really like how incredibly unimpressed York is with the final bad guys. They make their big J-game speeches and he deflates them with a few words. It made me so happy.
everything sucks
kill me plz
It's like...I am really impressed with the work they put into those horrible possibilities but I am so glad that I didn't hav to experience them.
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Think I'm gonna buy Leviathan. Have to do that and Citadel tomorrow, then mop up.
Anyway, I think it's bedtime. Night everyone.
I'm pretty glad I did to be honest. A lot of video games give you win conditions. You have an optimal outcome and can achieve it. But there is a certain dramatic effect in having to make the shitty choice. And that may be why it felt so much grittier to me. I can't get the optimal outcome so I have to spend some time agonizing over the choice. And with the characterization being so good...it makes it more powerful.
@Desc is having the weirdest dream right now.
Yes
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades