@HydroP, yeah Kermit mentioned that to me. I wasn't online with him at the time, but he said he thought he'd been killed by you before. I can't speak to whether that's the case or it was mistaken identity. In any case, we'd both been KOSed by (Bandit)s a lot, particulaly morris yesterday, and I think you had a bandit tag at the time?
I don't think there are any hard feelings. It's sort of just the way the game plays right now. Kermit and I would definitely prefer to play essentially peacefully, but given the lack of any way to identify people at range, and how dangerous it can be to presume good intentions on someone else's part, we may shoot first. Which I understand may be part of the problem of things degenerating into a KOS-fest. But I'm not sure what the solution is given the current game mechanics and lack of much to do after a couple of play sessions.
I think that the economy of the server really drops much to do after you have established a base for yourself/group. At that point it quickly degenerates into either striking out at other factions or sitting around twiddling your thumbs. Lets be honest, who wants to play a game where you do nothing?
I think that a little better range on name tags would help but I do not think it should show from a great distance. However, I do feel that if there were more factions on the group then you could start to see alliances form with them in varying ways and then in turn possibly have some real fun with the PVP side. No, it is not that much fun running around solo getting shot to hell by the larger clans with better gear. That is why I have tried to stress to people to find others to group up with. It offers so much more in the way of protection and also the capabilities of having a secure base to work from.
Another thing that I really feel would help steer away from a lot of the KOSing is the addition of arenas and actual participation. Maybe that is something that needs to be brainstormed by everyone here but if people are able to PVP in a set arena with set rules then there is the possibility that they will move away from killing people elsewhere and use that time for farming. I know that if PVP was based on bringing your own gear and "payment" to join the arena then I would not have as much of a problem limiting it to arena PVP mostly as that would allow for me to potentially still take some stuff from people while enjoying the PVP side of the house.
I'm not opposed to putting up some ante, but the problem with that other proposed PvP assault thing was that most groups didn't have the paucity of military weapons and explosives to try to compete with you guys
I know that people did not have the equipment we did. But, while I may be wrong, I personally feel that the reason we got the gear is because we were willing to risk our best gear in order to compete for better gear. What I have found is that the majority of people will get nice gear and hide it away in fear of losing it. Whats the point of that though? Also, our coordination and tactics are pretty good as well. We run comms well and we know how to effectively move into positions to win fights. If people were to participate in a few arenas in order to practice these types of skills then I think people would start to compete with us a lot more than they do currently.
The problem with Rust (and also DayZ) right now is that nothing means anything in the game. You can sit for 6 hours straight, farm loads of stuff, build a massive base, go and raid some pink cows, and then someone comes up and kills you and takes all your stuff. That 6 hours is gone. The perma-death/lose your stuff mechanic gets old fast. Most people now want to invest time in a video game and get some reward for it.
I'm sitting here now, thinking "well I got a little base in Rust, I got a BAR and 20 bullets, I better stockpile them" but what's the point in doing that? Nothing. The PA guys already spent *hours* building a base (and having it raided) and now it's all gone. Any more effort at this point (i.e. farming and building) is kinda pointless because at some point soon it will all be lost again.
Seriously - I really think this game should be treated as an FPS right now (i.e. true throwaway gaming where you just run and gun). Pie might as well set up a starter kit that gives everyone guns and ammo, and have everyone run round PvPing with each other. I'd play more if I knew I wasn't investing time to lose everything I was hoarding/building.
The problem with Rust (and also DayZ) right now is that nothing means anything in the game. You can sit for 6 hours straight, farm loads of stuff, build a massive base, go and raid some pink cows, and then someone comes up and kills you and takes all your stuff. That 6 hours is gone. The perma-death/lose your stuff mechanic gets old fast. Most people now want to invest time in a video game and get some reward for it.
I'm sitting here now, thinking "well I got a little base in Rust, I got a BAR and 20 bullets, I better stockpile them" but what's the point in doing that? Nothing. The PA guys already spent *hours* building a base (and having it raided) and now it's all gone. Any more effort at this point (i.e. farming and building) is kinda pointless because at some point soon it will all be lost again.
Seriously - I really think this game should be treated as an FPS right now (i.e. true throwaway gaming where you just run and gun). Pie might as well set up a starter kit that gives everyone guns and ammo, and have everyone run round PvPing with each other. I'd play more if I knew I wasn't investing time to lose everything I was hoarding/building.
I'm on Sliver's server, and there's a nice sense of progression that I can't lose in the form of research. Pretty much everything is researchable which is the only thing they can't take away from you. So I've been raiding around collecting resources to get all the stuff I need to raid even more and get a metal base and whatnot. It's also pretty much just me and @Lazerbeard at the moment. And it is a ton of fun. Last night 5 people C4'd two of my meager base's walls down and trapped me in a 1x1 room. They ran out of C4, but I was stuck inside. It was a ton of fun. Now I have to figure out where they live and go retaliate.
@HydroP I know that you are trying to help but I think to some people your advice comes across as "Why don't you noobs practice more so you can give us a better challenge when we come to kill you and take your stuff."
As you describe it yourself, you guys are basically a hardcore gaming group who are well organized, using tactics and communications to full effect to steamroll the other random people on the server. When you are addressing PA peeps, realize that we are essentially a group of people whose cohesion is based on "do you post on the same forum about video games that I do?" Some of us know each other, others amongst us are new to each other. In my opinion we work together well, but none of us are really that hardcore about the game - we're all people who log in at random times to fart around in game for a few hours before going back to real life concerns. I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone really takes this game that seriously, so it's kind of hard for you to find the opposition that you are seeking. A lot of people that I played with are fine with just building random bases and the stray one-on-one encounter, but not everyone is really eager to set up times to roam as an organized murder group (on average - though some of us have before).
O'Malley said that the bandit group broke up into two halves, but the two groups are currently friendly with each other. Why not pick a fight with the other group? That should be more likely to give you the challenge that you are seeking rather than hoping the other people on the server suddenly get good enough to give you guys more entertaining target practice.
Also, complaining about a lack of a community (such as few people showing up for your arenas) is a bit silly considering how often you guys KoS. When people's chat is filled with the bandit group repeatedly killing a person over and over, I think most people don't trust you guys enough to show up to one of your events. Hell, I even thought to myself "well, if they're busy running an arena I guess I can roam around a bit safer in the meantime."
Personally, I haven't played much lately (because aside from a vacation) @cmsamo is right, there just isn't much to the game. You can build a base and get loot, but you eventually lose it to people who take the game more seriously, a hacker, or exploitation of dumb game mechanics...other than that there really isn't any sense of progression. Some people are fine with games like this, others aren't; some people can go through the buildup grind all day, while others eventually think "there's no way I'll ever catch up to those guys, so why bother trying when they'll eventually just come and take my stuff?" I'm not sure what the answer to this problem is - perhaps deeper character progression of some sort, though that creates its own set of problems.
I do however, think that the permanence of items hurts this game, and favors those in power - weapons never break down, and you can stockpile things and log off safely with them. Depending on server rules, if you learn the recipe to say, Kevlar, suddenly you are in a vastly superior position when compared to everyone who does not have the same recipe. Using this advantage, it's easier to continue to advance, while those without as much luck lag behind.
I think the game would also be better if the only craftable items were of the primitive variety - in other words what a naked person with a rock could eventually reasonably come to make. Crafting Kevlar armor and military weapons out of chunks of metal that you get from a boulder is unrealistic and silly, and due to how crafting currently works in the game there is a rather large balance gap between the haves and the have-nots. Additionally, I think that weapons should eventually wear out - it gives a reason to go back out and gather and stalls hoarding somewhat (depending on how you implement it).
Alternatively, you could solve some of the games problems by making death more punishing. I could see a version of Rust where you are able to learn recipes for everything (though as a key point, make high-end recipes really rare), while also having a limited set of stat advancement that allows you to place points in skills to make you better at certain things. However, the counter to this is that death would erase everything that you know, you would literally start over as a new character, and lose the knowledge to craft that M4, Kevlar suit, or whatever. Such a system would still favor large groups of course (aka bandits), but it would making raiding more risky, since a lucky shot could wipe out your progression. This would probably make conflict more rare but brutal, though I have the feeling that this is something that I would enjoy but most people would not.
Hey guys, Argyle Alligator here. I wanted to show how influential the power of music in Rust could be, bottom line: I still got shot a lot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKQ-m548Cw
(I was given permission to post this)
Gah, how did I miss this? Your interview video was like the thing that got me playing this game in the first place. Awesome job man!
Also, I've added server info for @SprinklesAK's server in the OP. His loot tables sound fairly similar to Pie's server, though there are a few differences that could be appealing to some of you guys here if you want to check it out. I think he also said that he's disabled fall damage, so you won't have to worry about the resource-suicide bug we've been seeing.
The problem with Rust (and also DayZ) right now is that nothing means anything in the game. You can sit for 6 hours straight, farm loads of stuff, build a massive base, go and raid some pink cows, and then someone comes up and kills you and takes all your stuff. That 6 hours is gone. The perma-death/lose your stuff mechanic gets old fast. Most people now want to invest time in a video game and get some reward for it.
That's not the problem at all. That's the reason the game is so exhilarating.
Junlea :: Writer, Gamer, Bagel Fan
+1
Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
The problem with Rust (and also DayZ) right now is that nothing means anything in the game. You can sit for 6 hours straight, farm loads of stuff, build a massive base, go and raid some pink cows, and then someone comes up and kills you and takes all your stuff. That 6 hours is gone. The perma-death/lose your stuff mechanic gets old fast. Most people now want to invest time in a video game and get some reward for it.
That's not the problem at all. That's the reason the game is so exhilarating.
It is exhilarating the first few times it happens, but it can quickly cross the line and become frustrating as well. Once you've had most of the "experiences" Rust has to offer in its current state, starting over from scratch becomes a slog of going through the motions to once again establish yourself and build up your materials and equipment enough to not be bullet-fodder every time you come across someone else.
Playing with an established group softens this a lot, because even if you die you still have a base you can return to with plenty of materials and weapons so that you don't have to start all the way over. In its current alpha state though, when all that work can be flushed away in an instant, it really take a lot out of you. I thought a wipe would be a good thing until less than a day went by and the other groups on the server had already reestablished their dominance two-fold. I'm a father with a full-time job and a Steam backlog a mile long. I can't compete with people who can put in those kind of hours, and I imagine many people in our group are in a similar position.
Once this game is officially released and the threat of server wipes has gone, I'll definitely be up for joining up with a group once again, because it really was fun for a while having people to play with. Until then though, I'll just be hopping on occasionally to test new builds and mess around by myself on various servers.
I know that people did not have the equipment we did. But, while I may be wrong, I personally feel that the reason we got the gear is because we were willing to risk our best gear in order to compete for better gear. What I have found is that the majority of people will get nice gear and hide it away in fear of losing it. Whats the point of that though? Also, our coordination and tactics are pretty good as well. We run comms well and we know how to effectively move into positions to win fights. If people were to participate in a few arenas in order to practice these types of skills then I think people would start to compete with us a lot more than they do currently.
If it wasn't obvious before, it should be now. There isn't going to be the sort of organized opposition you are looking for on Pie's server. It doesn't matter how many times you say it's safe. No one is interested in your "arena" matches because they want nothing to do with you. You are like a group of High School jocks who beat up everyone they meet and wonder why no one shows up to your parties.
You might find a more organized group to fight with on another server.
Also, I've added server info for @SprinklesAK's server in the OP. His loot tables sound fairly similar to Pie's server, though there are a few differences that could be appealing to some of you guys here if you want to check it out. I think he also said that he's disabled fall damage, so you won't have to worry about the resource-suicide bug we've been seeing.
Thanks a bunch Big Dookie! Yeah it is similar but tweaked to be a bit rarer I think, our drop percentages are even lower than Pie's and even less is craftable. Combat is primarily conducted with bow/arrows and pipe shotgun because those are the only unlimited/craftable ammo weapons. Often people carry a 9mm or a revolver for a mid range weapon, but ammo is uncommon so most people can't afford to burn through clips. Makes for very extended skirmishes at arrow range or intense mid/short range chases with the pipe shotgun that can often be escaped. Many fights are longer and with fewer deaths due to the challenge of getting kills with these weapons.
FYI - Ergo Proxy is the main admin. I am not an admin but I had significant input on designing the balance for loot/crafting/etc. I play as a normal player that knows a bit more than most about the loot system and we aim to let the broader player base learn it on their own, feel free to ask around, some might be nice enough to share what they have learned. However in general order of value, Air Drops > Crates > Red animals. Each category has some unique items to them that are desirable so you will want all 3.
Due to our resources being heavily focused on red animals and crates, the server is highly territorial over these resources. It's going really well with 20+ people most of the time now. Thanks to anyone in advance if you take the time to check us out too! We are all excited to see what happens as the population rises.
We have been on the fence about fall damage and that annoying rock bug. We ended up leaving it on for now because we didn't want any weird base raiding performed due to no fall damage.
The problem with Rust (and also DayZ) right now is that nothing means anything in the game. You can sit for 6 hours straight, farm loads of stuff, build a massive base, go and raid some pink cows, and then someone comes up and kills you and takes all your stuff. That 6 hours is gone. The perma-death/lose your stuff mechanic gets old fast. Most people now want to invest time in a video game and get some reward for it.
That's not the problem at all. That's the reason the game is so exhilarating.
Totally agree that it's exhilarating. And it's fine if you have endless hours to waste starting over and over. But since most games now are of the "level up and keep all your stuff" mechanic - i.e. RPG like - most folks don't like the fact that you invest 6 hours and come away with nothing. In most games, 6 hours is many level and skill ups - tangible things that you get to 'keep'. That's the point I was trying to make although reading back what I said, I didnt write it very well.
Also, I've added server info for @SprinklesAK's server in the OP. His loot tables sound fairly similar to Pie's server, though there are a few differences that could be appealing to some of you guys here if you want to check it out. I think he also said that he's disabled fall damage, so you won't have to worry about the resource-suicide bug we've been seeing.
Thanks a bunch Big Dookie! Yeah it is similar but tweaked to be a bit rarer I think, our drop percentages are even lower than Pie's and even less is craftable. Combat is primarily conducted with bow/arrows and pipe shotgun because those are the only unlimited/craftable ammo weapons. Often people carry a 9mm or a revolver for a mid range weapon, but ammo is uncommon so most people can't afford to burn through clips. Makes for very extended skirmishes at arrow range or intense mid/short range chases with the pipe shotgun that can often be escaped. Many fights are longer and with fewer deaths due to the challenge of getting kills with these weapons.
FYI - Ergo Proxy is the main admin. I am not an admin but I had significant input on designing the balance for loot/crafting/etc. I play as a normal player that knows a bit more than most about the loot system and we aim to let the broader player base learn it on their own, feel free to ask around, some might be nice enough to share what they have learned. However in general order of value, Air Drops > Crates > Red animals. Each category has some unique items to them that are desirable so you will want all 3.
Due to our resources being heavily focused on red animals and crates, the server is highly territorial over these resources. It's going really well with 20+ people most of the time now. Thanks to anyone in advance if you take the time to check us out too! We are all excited to see what happens as the population rises.
We have been on the fence about fall damage and that annoying rock bug. We ended up leaving it on for now because we didn't want any weird base raiding performed due to no fall damage.
Sprinkles - I just hit up your server and everyone on it seems really cool. More than once a couple bandit groups ran by me while I was building a base, and once I said I was friendly, they left me alone without killing me for the sake of it. Also teamed up with a neighbour (who was 30 mins into the game) and I'm showing him the ropes of base building and playing the game, so it's been a cool couple of hours
First, try to be a little more mature when discussing the game and those who play it. You are quickly deteriorating into one of those people who makes claims about someone's real life when they have no basis for it. For the record, none of us are in high school, while some of us may have played high school sports I am willing to bet that none of us were considered "jocks" either. Forgive me for wanting to play a PvP game as a PvP game.
Secondly, all of you who keep saying "I don't trust you because of all the KOS"...Facts are I have never broken my word to anyone in the game. So you are simply making up excuses there. As for the KOS'ing people over and over...that is not true either. We may KOS people but we don't repeatedly kill them time and time again unless they come looking for a fight. As well, we generally will return the majority of people's stuff as long as they are not whiners when they get killed.
Thirdly, I have seen just as many of you doing KOS on other people (and bandits which is fine) as we have. Please do not start throwing rocks at us when you are guilty of the same actions yourselves.
I do not want anyone to quit this server, I actually want this server to grow and be more fun but I am not about to start playing a PvP game as a PvE game.
On a last note...we do not all know each other in real life. I only know O'Malley and he may know a couple of the others. We are linked by the fact that we get on mumble and play together. And on top of that, we do not coordinate our times so we can play together. If we decide to log on and play and someone else is on, then that is cool. If not...oh well.
And I don't know about all the others, but I have been putting 2-3 hours tops a day (sometimes 0) on this game. O'Malley is putting in slightly less than that. We both have college, work, and real lives too.
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
First, try to be a little more mature when discussing the game and those who play it. You are quickly deteriorating into one of those people who makes claims about someone's real life when they have no basis for it. For the record, none of us are in high school, while some of us may have played high school sports I am willing to bet that none of us were considered "jocks" either. Forgive me for wanting to play a PvP game as a PvP game.
Secondly, all of you who keep saying "I don't trust you because of all the KOS"...Facts are I have never broken my word to anyone in the game. So you are simply making up excuses there. As for the KOS'ing people over and over...that is not true either. We may KOS people but we don't repeatedly kill them time and time again unless they come looking for a fight. As well, we generally will return the majority of people's stuff as long as they are not whiners when they get killed.
Thirdly, I have seen just as many of you doing KOS on other people (and bandits which is fine) as we have. Please do not start throwing rocks at us when you are guilty of the same actions yourselves.
I do not want anyone to quit this server, I actually want this server to grow and be more fun but I am not about to start playing a PvP game as a PvE game.
On a last note...we do not all know each other in real life. I only know O'Malley and he may know a couple of the others. We are linked by the fact that we get on mumble and play together. And on top of that, we do not coordinate our times so we can play together. If we decide to log on and play and someone else is on, then that is cool. If not...oh well.
And I don't know about all the others, but I have been putting 2-3 hours tops a day (sometimes 0) on this game. O'Malley is putting in slightly less than that. We both have college, work, and real lives too.
It's an analogy. You are the bullies of the server and people don't want to play with you. You are not going to get any sort of organized opposition. If you want that, there are other servers. If you don't than just keep doing what you are doing. People aren't going to want to join the arena matches if they are hosted by bandits, though.
Sprinkles - I just hit up your server and everyone on it seems really cool. More than once a couple bandit groups ran by me while I was building a base, and once I said I was friendly, they left me alone without killing me for the sake of it. Also teamed up with a neighbour (who was 30 mins into the game) and I'm showing him the ropes of base building and playing the game, so it's been a cool couple of hours
Thanks cmsamo! Glad you like it. I'll be on a little later to try to stir up more trouble, haha.
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ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
First, try to be a little more mature when discussing the game and those who play it. You are quickly deteriorating into one of those people who makes claims about someone's real life when they have no basis for it. For the record, none of us are in high school, while some of us may have played high school sports I am willing to bet that none of us were considered "jocks" either. Forgive me for wanting to play a PvP game as a PvP game.
Secondly, all of you who keep saying "I don't trust you because of all the KOS"...Facts are I have never broken my word to anyone in the game. So you are simply making up excuses there. As for the KOS'ing people over and over...that is not true either. We may KOS people but we don't repeatedly kill them time and time again unless they come looking for a fight. As well, we generally will return the majority of people's stuff as long as they are not whiners when they get killed.
Thirdly, I have seen just as many of you doing KOS on other people (and bandits which is fine) as we have. Please do not start throwing rocks at us when you are guilty of the same actions yourselves.
I do not want anyone to quit this server, I actually want this server to grow and be more fun but I am not about to start playing a PvP game as a PvE game.
On a last note...we do not all know each other in real life. I only know O'Malley and he may know a couple of the others. We are linked by the fact that we get on mumble and play together. And on top of that, we do not coordinate our times so we can play together. If we decide to log on and play and someone else is on, then that is cool. If not...oh well.
And I don't know about all the others, but I have been putting 2-3 hours tops a day (sometimes 0) on this game. O'Malley is putting in slightly less than that. We both have college, work, and real lives too.
If I'm playing KOS it is because you, Bacon, and Morris are online and I have to.
I've said this before and you didn't like it. You guys are try-hards. Don't try and deny it. You are. The vast majority of people in this community do not play with and do not like playing with try hards. We laugh at them. Too many times I have seen you espouse an attitude in chat, "lol well you fags can come fight us in the arena or we can hunt you down it doesn't matter to us." Shit like that is the quickest way to make someone like me go play something else in my backlog. That or I will just find another RUST server and bring my friends to that one. So far I really like Sliver's and Sprinkles servers. Sprinkles server especially is a breath of fresh air.
Early in this thread you chumps tried to make some lame-ass argument that we all need each other and that is not the case at all. Your gang of try-hards needs us a lot more than we need you. Almost everyone in this thread can and will have fun in this game without you and without griefing other players. You guys on the other hand? You can't have any fun at all without us it seems. In fact without other people to grief you guys don't seem interested in the game at all. I didn't buy this game to play with pieman's real-life friends. I got this game to play with PA people. Yeah you joined the forum, but that doesn't mean shit to me nor anyone else.
Oh and finally a note on PVP. Yeah it is a PVP game, but most people aren't actively interested in that aspect solely. People who enjoy PVP like the idea that anyone they meet could be their killer. They like the threat of pvp because it is exhilarating. They do not want to be hounded by a group of jackasses who repeatedly gank people and do nothing else.
It's an analogy. You are the bullies of the server and people don't want to play with you. You are not going to get any sort of organized opposition. If you want that, there are other servers. If you don't than just keep doing what you are doing. People aren't going to want to join the arena matches if they are hosted by bandits, though.
You make statements, that seem to be your personal opinions and then act like everyone else feels the same as you.
The actual majority do not consider us to be "bullies" of the server, many would probably scoff at the idea of us being able to "bully" them. R142 had a blast winning several fights against us and then rubbing it in our faces each time we logged on.
We actually do get organized opposition, not from PA, but there are several other groups, R142, RPS, and two other groups without group names. These groups have all given good fights and taken down bases of ours.
Just because you have a very negative opinion, does not mean everyone else does, so please stop acting like everyone is like you, because they are certainly not. People I asked could not tell me why you are so grumpy about us, but you are obviously for some reason.
Your statement about arena matches is also wrong, we have had an average of 5 people who were outsiders to our group attend each event, not including the one where people were to be given free gear to compete in (odd how when the risk of losing gear was lowered people had a lower show rate) My guess is this event was just not explained as well and people were not really sure what was going on.
So please, don't speak for the server as if they all follow your own personal opinions.
Honestly, and I speak for myself not the others, I do not care what you think of me in terms of "try-hards" and "jackasses". While we come off as those words to you, you come off as whiners to me. I suppose that it is possible the military mentality is still stuck in me pretty good in that when I am challenged I actually fight back rather than run away with my tail between my legs calling the same people who made me do it names. Thats real bravado of you
None of you have ever really made any attempts to figure things out with us and therefore you have reaped exactly what has happened. If you think we KOS everyone and refuse to be kind to people then you are speaking subjectively and need to broaden your horizon. There are many players and groups we not only befriended to the point of not KOS'ing but also constantly gave them free stuff to get them going faster.
But of course, nobody wants to see or admit that because then it would be admitting the actual truth in that you only want to play PvP on your own terms and not someone else's. Hence, when you are the ones kicking everyone's asses then it is ok but not when it is done to you. Your hypocrisy smells rancid from a mile away. And this is not pointed at all of you specifically but there are a significant few that really need to start seeing things a bit more objectively.
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ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
edited February 2014
wait why am I even bothering I don't even play on pieman's server anymore.
Is there a password on the PA Ventrilo server? I just tried to connect and got a "connected to the server but unable to validate your username/password" type message.
So what servers are PA people on now? I'd like to play alongside/against other forum members and every time I get on Pie's server the last two days there are only 2-4 people playing at a time. I haven't even seen anyone else at all.
I'm on Pie's! I'm just building a base, hoping it will someday be a beacon to the glory days of two weeks ago, when PA guys ran rampant across the land.
I'm giving Sliver's server a go... but my 'secret' base has just been discovered and I got attacked pretty bad! I'm also logging in to Pie's server too.
Is there a password on the PA Ventrilo server? I just tried to connect and got a "connected to the server but unable to validate your username/password" type message.
we got raided last night on Sliver's server, the bandits used like 14 c4 or something ridiculous but didn't make away with too much, actually I think we came out positive on guns/ammo.
a bit annoying that they had made about a ton of sleeping bags outside our fort so killing them didn't really mean anything, and coupled with the fact they put up a few metal doors in our base that we couldn't blow up meant we couldn't grab a lot of their shit and get it back inside before they were already back.
Was fun that I got to shoot them in the head a lot with a bolt action though, I think they only killed me once and I had killed 5-9 of them
Mon-Fri 8:30 PM CST - 11:30 PM CST
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Big DookieSmells great!Houston, TXRegistered Userregular
Wait, I thought the new changes with the Bed was supposed to prevent spamming with sleeping bags? How exactly were they using them?
well after they got sick of getting shot in the head and left, we went and cleared a ton of sleeping bags, it seemed like even though we kept shooting them, they were always right back up and running around, I assume that placing multiple sleeping bags allowed them to get right back in the fight. I know in our fort I have 2 sleeping bags on the ground currently
another really annoying thing was that they kept meowing into their mics and basically being as annoying as possible, I want to mute them, but I know its dumb to mute them because it helps give away their positions
Oh hey, did I accidentally click on a PVE server discussion in Nether's Steam forums by mistake? :P
Though more seriously these sort of games really do suffer from discouraging PVP from a RP sort of perspective but making it absolutely the safest thing from a gameplay perspective. Bandits will always prosper and have a super easy time of everything. It's just how the games set up.
So the other night I'm online with like seven bandits and myself. I figure I will be okay to farm Russian Bears during the twilight hours and grab my bow. So there I am standing in the tree line in the fading light with a bear in my sights when all of a sudden I see a little red dot in his face. It wasn't until I heard the automatic 9mm fire that I realized I should probably pack it in for the night. I somehow managed to get back to base without so much as a scratch.
well after they got sick of getting shot in the head and left, we went and cleared a ton of sleeping bags, it seemed like even though we kept shooting them, they were always right back up and running around, I assume that placing multiple sleeping bags allowed them to get right back in the fight. I know in our fort I have 2 sleeping bags on the ground currently
another really annoying thing was that they kept meowing into their mics and basically being as annoying as possible, I want to mute them, but I know its dumb to mute them because it helps give away their positions
A patch or two ago changed the sleeping bags so they trigger a 5 minute cooldown on all sleeping bags within a certain radius. Maybe they were spread out far enough away or brought beds?
any idea on the range? they had them in 3 locations within site of our base.
the main problem is that I don't think the range is far enough, because we killed them several times over but didn't even have time to loot a lot of their stuff unless they were cocky and very close to our base, did not seem like we were really punishing them by killing them over and over, I kind of wish there was a respawn timer that built up if you die repeatedly
the other annoying thing is since they put up a few metal doors in our base we are effectively cut off from our stuff. They didn't get much because we moved it up to our top floor, but now we're sealed off from it. I wish there was an item that could be placed to prevent people outside your group from building in an area. once the item is destroyed they could take over the base. maybe that is asking too much though.
More to the point how did they get so much C4? The few guys that were on late last night were making out that it's almost impossible to get ecplosives sliver's server? So how did they have 17 C4?
To clarify my statement earlier was more along the lines of "don't be surprised that some people don't like you when your a bandit." I personally don't mind the bandits, and I think the game would be boring without them - "nicer" people need "villains" to chase to generate content. I wasn't really expecting the conversation to turn out the way it did, to me it's a PVP server so I expect PVP.
My biggest issue with the game currently is the convoluted and buggy mechanics behind raiding. It seems like you are constantly having to create buggy defenses to combat buggy offenses; things in the game don't always work in expected ways, and are often silly (placing sleeping bags on pillars, not being able to destroy ceilings, etc.). I just think the game needs a lot of refinement.
Also, swapping zombies for red bears that drop loot...I'd rather have the zombies until a better answer is found. But eh, alpha.
Posts
I don't think there are any hard feelings. It's sort of just the way the game plays right now. Kermit and I would definitely prefer to play essentially peacefully, but given the lack of any way to identify people at range, and how dangerous it can be to presume good intentions on someone else's part, we may shoot first. Which I understand may be part of the problem of things degenerating into a KOS-fest. But I'm not sure what the solution is given the current game mechanics and lack of much to do after a couple of play sessions.
I think that a little better range on name tags would help but I do not think it should show from a great distance. However, I do feel that if there were more factions on the group then you could start to see alliances form with them in varying ways and then in turn possibly have some real fun with the PVP side. No, it is not that much fun running around solo getting shot to hell by the larger clans with better gear. That is why I have tried to stress to people to find others to group up with. It offers so much more in the way of protection and also the capabilities of having a secure base to work from.
Another thing that I really feel would help steer away from a lot of the KOSing is the addition of arenas and actual participation. Maybe that is something that needs to be brainstormed by everyone here but if people are able to PVP in a set arena with set rules then there is the possibility that they will move away from killing people elsewhere and use that time for farming. I know that if PVP was based on bringing your own gear and "payment" to join the arena then I would not have as much of a problem limiting it to arena PVP mostly as that would allow for me to potentially still take some stuff from people while enjoying the PVP side of the house.
I'm sitting here now, thinking "well I got a little base in Rust, I got a BAR and 20 bullets, I better stockpile them" but what's the point in doing that? Nothing. The PA guys already spent *hours* building a base (and having it raided) and now it's all gone. Any more effort at this point (i.e. farming and building) is kinda pointless because at some point soon it will all be lost again.
Seriously - I really think this game should be treated as an FPS right now (i.e. true throwaway gaming where you just run and gun). Pie might as well set up a starter kit that gives everyone guns and ammo, and have everyone run round PvPing with each other. I'd play more if I knew I wasn't investing time to lose everything I was hoarding/building.
I'm on Sliver's server, and there's a nice sense of progression that I can't lose in the form of research. Pretty much everything is researchable which is the only thing they can't take away from you. So I've been raiding around collecting resources to get all the stuff I need to raid even more and get a metal base and whatnot. It's also pretty much just me and @Lazerbeard at the moment. And it is a ton of fun. Last night 5 people C4'd two of my meager base's walls down and trapped me in a 1x1 room. They ran out of C4, but I was stuck inside. It was a ton of fun. Now I have to figure out where they live and go retaliate.
SniperGuyGaming on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
As you describe it yourself, you guys are basically a hardcore gaming group who are well organized, using tactics and communications to full effect to steamroll the other random people on the server. When you are addressing PA peeps, realize that we are essentially a group of people whose cohesion is based on "do you post on the same forum about video games that I do?" Some of us know each other, others amongst us are new to each other. In my opinion we work together well, but none of us are really that hardcore about the game - we're all people who log in at random times to fart around in game for a few hours before going back to real life concerns. I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone really takes this game that seriously, so it's kind of hard for you to find the opposition that you are seeking. A lot of people that I played with are fine with just building random bases and the stray one-on-one encounter, but not everyone is really eager to set up times to roam as an organized murder group (on average - though some of us have before).
O'Malley said that the bandit group broke up into two halves, but the two groups are currently friendly with each other. Why not pick a fight with the other group? That should be more likely to give you the challenge that you are seeking rather than hoping the other people on the server suddenly get good enough to give you guys more entertaining target practice.
Also, complaining about a lack of a community (such as few people showing up for your arenas) is a bit silly considering how often you guys KoS. When people's chat is filled with the bandit group repeatedly killing a person over and over, I think most people don't trust you guys enough to show up to one of your events. Hell, I even thought to myself "well, if they're busy running an arena I guess I can roam around a bit safer in the meantime."
Personally, I haven't played much lately (because aside from a vacation) @cmsamo is right, there just isn't much to the game. You can build a base and get loot, but you eventually lose it to people who take the game more seriously, a hacker, or exploitation of dumb game mechanics...other than that there really isn't any sense of progression. Some people are fine with games like this, others aren't; some people can go through the buildup grind all day, while others eventually think "there's no way I'll ever catch up to those guys, so why bother trying when they'll eventually just come and take my stuff?" I'm not sure what the answer to this problem is - perhaps deeper character progression of some sort, though that creates its own set of problems.
I do however, think that the permanence of items hurts this game, and favors those in power - weapons never break down, and you can stockpile things and log off safely with them. Depending on server rules, if you learn the recipe to say, Kevlar, suddenly you are in a vastly superior position when compared to everyone who does not have the same recipe. Using this advantage, it's easier to continue to advance, while those without as much luck lag behind.
I think the game would also be better if the only craftable items were of the primitive variety - in other words what a naked person with a rock could eventually reasonably come to make. Crafting Kevlar armor and military weapons out of chunks of metal that you get from a boulder is unrealistic and silly, and due to how crafting currently works in the game there is a rather large balance gap between the haves and the have-nots. Additionally, I think that weapons should eventually wear out - it gives a reason to go back out and gather and stalls hoarding somewhat (depending on how you implement it).
Alternatively, you could solve some of the games problems by making death more punishing. I could see a version of Rust where you are able to learn recipes for everything (though as a key point, make high-end recipes really rare), while also having a limited set of stat advancement that allows you to place points in skills to make you better at certain things. However, the counter to this is that death would erase everything that you know, you would literally start over as a new character, and lose the knowledge to craft that M4, Kevlar suit, or whatever. Such a system would still favor large groups of course (aka bandits), but it would making raiding more risky, since a lucky shot could wipe out your progression. This would probably make conflict more rare but brutal, though I have the feeling that this is something that I would enjoy but most people would not.
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
Gah, how did I miss this? Your interview video was like the thing that got me playing this game in the first place. Awesome job man!
Also, I've added server info for @SprinklesAK's server in the OP. His loot tables sound fairly similar to Pie's server, though there are a few differences that could be appealing to some of you guys here if you want to check it out. I think he also said that he's disabled fall damage, so you won't have to worry about the resource-suicide bug we've been seeing.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
It is exhilarating the first few times it happens, but it can quickly cross the line and become frustrating as well. Once you've had most of the "experiences" Rust has to offer in its current state, starting over from scratch becomes a slog of going through the motions to once again establish yourself and build up your materials and equipment enough to not be bullet-fodder every time you come across someone else.
Playing with an established group softens this a lot, because even if you die you still have a base you can return to with plenty of materials and weapons so that you don't have to start all the way over. In its current alpha state though, when all that work can be flushed away in an instant, it really take a lot out of you. I thought a wipe would be a good thing until less than a day went by and the other groups on the server had already reestablished their dominance two-fold. I'm a father with a full-time job and a Steam backlog a mile long. I can't compete with people who can put in those kind of hours, and I imagine many people in our group are in a similar position.
Once this game is officially released and the threat of server wipes has gone, I'll definitely be up for joining up with a group once again, because it really was fun for a while having people to play with. Until then though, I'll just be hopping on occasionally to test new builds and mess around by myself on various servers.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
If it wasn't obvious before, it should be now. There isn't going to be the sort of organized opposition you are looking for on Pie's server. It doesn't matter how many times you say it's safe. No one is interested in your "arena" matches because they want nothing to do with you. You are like a group of High School jocks who beat up everyone they meet and wonder why no one shows up to your parties.
You might find a more organized group to fight with on another server.
Thanks a bunch Big Dookie! Yeah it is similar but tweaked to be a bit rarer I think, our drop percentages are even lower than Pie's and even less is craftable. Combat is primarily conducted with bow/arrows and pipe shotgun because those are the only unlimited/craftable ammo weapons. Often people carry a 9mm or a revolver for a mid range weapon, but ammo is uncommon so most people can't afford to burn through clips. Makes for very extended skirmishes at arrow range or intense mid/short range chases with the pipe shotgun that can often be escaped. Many fights are longer and with fewer deaths due to the challenge of getting kills with these weapons.
FYI - Ergo Proxy is the main admin. I am not an admin but I had significant input on designing the balance for loot/crafting/etc. I play as a normal player that knows a bit more than most about the loot system and we aim to let the broader player base learn it on their own, feel free to ask around, some might be nice enough to share what they have learned. However in general order of value, Air Drops > Crates > Red animals. Each category has some unique items to them that are desirable so you will want all 3.
Due to our resources being heavily focused on red animals and crates, the server is highly territorial over these resources. It's going really well with 20+ people most of the time now. Thanks to anyone in advance if you take the time to check us out too! We are all excited to see what happens as the population rises.
We have been on the fence about fall damage and that annoying rock bug. We ended up leaving it on for now because we didn't want any weird base raiding performed due to no fall damage.
Totally agree that it's exhilarating. And it's fine if you have endless hours to waste starting over and over. But since most games now are of the "level up and keep all your stuff" mechanic - i.e. RPG like - most folks don't like the fact that you invest 6 hours and come away with nothing. In most games, 6 hours is many level and skill ups - tangible things that you get to 'keep'. That's the point I was trying to make although reading back what I said, I didnt write it very well.
Sprinkles - I just hit up your server and everyone on it seems really cool. More than once a couple bandit groups ran by me while I was building a base, and once I said I was friendly, they left me alone without killing me for the sake of it. Also teamed up with a neighbour (who was 30 mins into the game) and I'm showing him the ropes of base building and playing the game, so it's been a cool couple of hours
First, try to be a little more mature when discussing the game and those who play it. You are quickly deteriorating into one of those people who makes claims about someone's real life when they have no basis for it. For the record, none of us are in high school, while some of us may have played high school sports I am willing to bet that none of us were considered "jocks" either. Forgive me for wanting to play a PvP game as a PvP game.
Secondly, all of you who keep saying "I don't trust you because of all the KOS"...Facts are I have never broken my word to anyone in the game. So you are simply making up excuses there. As for the KOS'ing people over and over...that is not true either. We may KOS people but we don't repeatedly kill them time and time again unless they come looking for a fight. As well, we generally will return the majority of people's stuff as long as they are not whiners when they get killed.
Thirdly, I have seen just as many of you doing KOS on other people (and bandits which is fine) as we have. Please do not start throwing rocks at us when you are guilty of the same actions yourselves.
I do not want anyone to quit this server, I actually want this server to grow and be more fun but I am not about to start playing a PvP game as a PvE game.
On a last note...we do not all know each other in real life. I only know O'Malley and he may know a couple of the others. We are linked by the fact that we get on mumble and play together. And on top of that, we do not coordinate our times so we can play together. If we decide to log on and play and someone else is on, then that is cool. If not...oh well.
And I don't know about all the others, but I have been putting 2-3 hours tops a day (sometimes 0) on this game. O'Malley is putting in slightly less than that. We both have college, work, and real lives too.
It's an analogy. You are the bullies of the server and people don't want to play with you. You are not going to get any sort of organized opposition. If you want that, there are other servers. If you don't than just keep doing what you are doing. People aren't going to want to join the arena matches if they are hosted by bandits, though.
Thanks cmsamo! Glad you like it. I'll be on a little later to try to stir up more trouble, haha.
If I'm playing KOS it is because you, Bacon, and Morris are online and I have to.
I've said this before and you didn't like it. You guys are try-hards. Don't try and deny it. You are. The vast majority of people in this community do not play with and do not like playing with try hards. We laugh at them. Too many times I have seen you espouse an attitude in chat, "lol well you fags can come fight us in the arena or we can hunt you down it doesn't matter to us." Shit like that is the quickest way to make someone like me go play something else in my backlog. That or I will just find another RUST server and bring my friends to that one. So far I really like Sliver's and Sprinkles servers. Sprinkles server especially is a breath of fresh air.
Early in this thread you chumps tried to make some lame-ass argument that we all need each other and that is not the case at all. Your gang of try-hards needs us a lot more than we need you. Almost everyone in this thread can and will have fun in this game without you and without griefing other players. You guys on the other hand? You can't have any fun at all without us it seems. In fact without other people to grief you guys don't seem interested in the game at all. I didn't buy this game to play with pieman's real-life friends. I got this game to play with PA people. Yeah you joined the forum, but that doesn't mean shit to me nor anyone else.
Oh and finally a note on PVP. Yeah it is a PVP game, but most people aren't actively interested in that aspect solely. People who enjoy PVP like the idea that anyone they meet could be their killer. They like the threat of pvp because it is exhilarating. They do not want to be hounded by a group of jackasses who repeatedly gank people and do nothing else.
Shogun Streams Vidya
You make statements, that seem to be your personal opinions and then act like everyone else feels the same as you.
The actual majority do not consider us to be "bullies" of the server, many would probably scoff at the idea of us being able to "bully" them. R142 had a blast winning several fights against us and then rubbing it in our faces each time we logged on.
We actually do get organized opposition, not from PA, but there are several other groups, R142, RPS, and two other groups without group names. These groups have all given good fights and taken down bases of ours.
Just because you have a very negative opinion, does not mean everyone else does, so please stop acting like everyone is like you, because they are certainly not. People I asked could not tell me why you are so grumpy about us, but you are obviously for some reason.
Your statement about arena matches is also wrong, we have had an average of 5 people who were outsiders to our group attend each event, not including the one where people were to be given free gear to compete in (odd how when the risk of losing gear was lowered people had a lower show rate) My guess is this event was just not explained as well and people were not really sure what was going on.
So please, don't speak for the server as if they all follow your own personal opinions.
Thank you.
None of you have ever really made any attempts to figure things out with us and therefore you have reaped exactly what has happened. If you think we KOS everyone and refuse to be kind to people then you are speaking subjectively and need to broaden your horizon. There are many players and groups we not only befriended to the point of not KOS'ing but also constantly gave them free stuff to get them going faster.
But of course, nobody wants to see or admit that because then it would be admitting the actual truth in that you only want to play PvP on your own terms and not someone else's. Hence, when you are the ones kicking everyone's asses then it is ok but not when it is done to you. Your hypocrisy smells rancid from a mile away. And this is not pointed at all of you specifically but there are a significant few that really need to start seeing things a bit more objectively.
Shogun Streams Vidya
Yeah, I think it's time to tone down the rhetoric a bit on both sides.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
@Zul the Conqueror Well, it's the standard password. I'll PM it to you.
a bit annoying that they had made about a ton of sleeping bags outside our fort so killing them didn't really mean anything, and coupled with the fact they put up a few metal doors in our base that we couldn't blow up meant we couldn't grab a lot of their shit and get it back inside before they were already back.
Was fun that I got to shoot them in the head a lot with a bolt action though, I think they only killed me once and I had killed 5-9 of them
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
another really annoying thing was that they kept meowing into their mics and basically being as annoying as possible, I want to mute them, but I know its dumb to mute them because it helps give away their positions
Though more seriously these sort of games really do suffer from discouraging PVP from a RP sort of perspective but making it absolutely the safest thing from a gameplay perspective. Bandits will always prosper and have a super easy time of everything. It's just how the games set up.
A patch or two ago changed the sleeping bags so they trigger a 5 minute cooldown on all sleeping bags within a certain radius. Maybe they were spread out far enough away or brought beds?
the main problem is that I don't think the range is far enough, because we killed them several times over but didn't even have time to loot a lot of their stuff unless they were cocky and very close to our base, did not seem like we were really punishing them by killing them over and over, I kind of wish there was a respawn timer that built up if you die repeatedly
the other annoying thing is since they put up a few metal doors in our base we are effectively cut off from our stuff. They didn't get much because we moved it up to our top floor, but now we're sealed off from it. I wish there was an item that could be placed to prevent people outside your group from building in an area. once the item is destroyed they could take over the base. maybe that is asking too much though.
Only 100M, so very possible they just spread out enough and kept zerging.
My biggest issue with the game currently is the convoluted and buggy mechanics behind raiding. It seems like you are constantly having to create buggy defenses to combat buggy offenses; things in the game don't always work in expected ways, and are often silly (placing sleeping bags on pillars, not being able to destroy ceilings, etc.). I just think the game needs a lot of refinement.
Also, swapping zombies for red bears that drop loot...I'd rather have the zombies until a better answer is found. But eh, alpha.
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox