If they are legal in a format you have no interest in, why would you possibly object to that format opening up?
As to the matter of the power of Legacy cards warping the format.
This is the breakdown of decklists in the past two months in Legacy and Modern respectively. Percentage-wise the breakdown is almost identical, you have a few points difference, Control and Combo percentages between the two are reversed, which is likely due in part to Force of Will's influence making itself known.
It's also worth pointing out that the Legacy breakdown has half the sample size of the Modern breakdown, but is almost identical in terms of balance.
It is simply a format with more options, and has checks and balances that keeps the broken cards you're referring to in check.
Kelor on
0
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
I don't really care what happens within legacy/vintage, I am just of the opinion that eternal formats are bad and shouldn't really be supported by wotc because old magic is the worst
Which is a spiteful nonsense position but that is how I feel re: vintage/legacy
unrelated: rare dual lands are a tool of the great satan
Couple big things from my life in mtg this weekend:
- did a live stream of our local ptq in Edmonton (theros block limited). Was super fun, 8 rds of Swiss sealed deck and top 8 draft. Going in, I assumed the format would be much slower, but aggressive rw heroic decks still showed a lot of dominance. My favorite deck we covered was a guy who played essentially rg tokens - had copies of xengos pwalker, revel of the Fallen god, fated intervention, flurry of horns, and hall of triumph. Watching the guy play the hall on green then following up a turn or 2 later with surprise centaurs on the opponent's end step and main phase revel led to some of the biggest blowouts. Top card of the day HAD to be ajani's presence though. Card is sick in limited.
- local PT champ Shaun Macleran and local grinder Andrew Huska faced off in the semis of GP Minneapolis. So sweet to see friends making it on the big stage. Shame to see Curly (Andrew's nickname) lose in the finals, but Alberta magic is making a splash. Expect big things from the little province that could!
The only thing I like about legacy is that I can play belcher and ride the RNG to victory
I didn't know people actually gave a shit about vintage still though
0
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited May 2014
Vintage is... less absurd than you would expect. It's not much more combo-heavy than Legacy, because while combo decks are faster, so are hatedecks. It does have its spikes and there are plenty of games that end -- easily -- on turn one, but there are also plenty of games that open with a flurry of free counterspells and then settle down into a grind. The main issue with Vintage is that it's not so much more interesting than Legacy to justify the extra thousands of dollars of investment, though ironically most Vintage events end up being cheaper than Legacy because there's a big trend for 15-proxy events.
That said, Vintage Masters exists to print Legacy cards waaaaay more than the P9.
If the reserved list wasn't a think I could get a Sliver Queen for less than $40.
So fuck the reserved list.
But think of all the collectors whose portfolios are 100% in Dual Lands and Sliver Queens! You could bankrupt these people!
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Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
i have a question, o magicians
let's say I'm playing with this deck (spoiler: I am, it's been pretty fun so far):
4 Titan's Strength
4 Madcap
4 Dragon Mantle
2 Hall of Triumph
18 mountain
2 mutavault
how the f do i sideboard
especially against u/w: what should I be doing? If it's already designed to go pretty dang fast, do i... find a way to go faster? I guess I just don't really know where to start; I'd thought maybe Arena Athlete would be an easy drop, but if Nyx-fleece Ram starts coming out of the board he seems pretty solid again
maybe have bestow (warhound) to bring in as opposed to madcap?
Skullcrack is a good card to have, to prevent the most concerning part of Sphinx Rev to burn - the life gain.
Eidolon of the Great Revel vs other swarm decks.
Harnass by Force against green decks.
Maybe font of ire?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Mmmmm....toasty.
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Theodore Flooseveltproud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelodorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered Userregular
K, these def make sense to me as things to include or at least try
I like the thought of Harness actually, yeah, I was at first a little doubtful because I was misremembering it at 4cmc
font seems hella clunky, but is clunky in a way that makes me want it to be secretly a good idea
maybe purph would stretch my 1-drops further into the game?
I'm trying to think of something you can sb vs nyx fleece ram. Chandra's phoenix gets over top, but that'll be something to be concerned about out of white decks.
4 Titan's Strength
4 Madcap
4 Dragon Mantle
2 Hall of Triumph
18 mountain
2 mutavault
how the f do i sideboard
especially against u/w: what should I be doing? If it's already designed to go pretty dang fast, do i... find a way to go faster? I guess I just don't really know where to start; I'd thought maybe Arena Athlete would be an easy drop, but if Nyx-fleece Ram starts coming out of the board he seems pretty solid again
maybe have bestow (warhound) to bring in as opposed to madcap?
Legion loyalist is pretty nifty, hasty 1/1 with some neat battalion effects. Maybe mugging in the sideboard to combat the rams?
Deck seems fine to me. It's got pretty much every sub-$20 staple for the deck archetype (so basically everything except lands and thoughtseizes, maybe SoFaI). It's also worth about twice MSRP at current prices, not even close to less than MSRP. Sure some of the card choices are unusual, but Wizards has always thrown in a few non-standard cards in event decks.
I honestly don't know if the people who are disappointed with it were actually expecting multiple fetches or what?
Like half of that deck is from Innistrad, too, it's not like it's going to be hard to put that together yourself
Out of sheer curiosity I tossed it into ChannelFireball, it's like only like $200 or so buying the singles. On top of that I have no fucking idea why you'd run Isolated Chapel over Godless Shrine or for that matter why you'd run Honor of the Pure over basically any other anthem considering that you're running Tidehollow Scuttler and Myr tokens that won't benefit from Honor of the Pure at all. Hell, Path of Bravery even fits the minor lifegain theme they're apparently going for.
Then in a surprising twist, Modern Event Deck takes the next GP! ( Police then jump to investigate what killed every magic player besides the guy with the Modern Event Deck)
Like half of that deck is from Innistrad, too, it's not like it's going to be hard to put that together yourself
Out of sheer curiosity I tossed it into ChannelFireball, it's like only like $200 or so buying the singles. On top of that I have no fucking idea why you'd run Isolated Chapel over Godless Shrine or for that matter why you'd run Honor of the Pure over basically any other anthem considering that you're running Tidehollow Scuttler and Myr tokens that won't benefit from Honor of the Pure at all. Hell, Path of Bravery even fits the minor lifegain theme they're apparently going for.
A minor nitpick, but Tidehollow Sculler does indeed benefit from HotP. However, Tidehollow does not play well with Kataki.
I guess what really bothers me about this deck is not the theme of tokens. It's that Modern is bloody expensive to get into and this deck does not help with a buy in, or give more availability to the really expensive cards that prevent many from getting into the format (i.e Noble Heirarch [$57], Bitterblossom [$47], fetchlands [$40-100]).
oh h*ck
+1
turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
So I should just continue ignoring products with Modern in the title then? K, good to know.
Christ guys. I'm disappointed too. I think they could have and should have done more but you're all being so damned hyperbolic.
It's a two hundred dollar deck for less then half that they gets you about half way towards either tokens or soul sisters. Yes it really should have had at least one bitterblossom but you people act like they spite in your damn faces.
And godless shrines? An easy addition they anybody making the leap from standard could make. That's why it's not a shrine. That's why the duress arnt thoughtsiezes.
Posts
As to the matter of the power of Legacy cards warping the format.
This is the breakdown of decklists in the past two months in Legacy and Modern respectively. Percentage-wise the breakdown is almost identical, you have a few points difference, Control and Combo percentages between the two are reversed, which is likely due in part to Force of Will's influence making itself known.
It's also worth pointing out that the Legacy breakdown has half the sample size of the Modern breakdown, but is almost identical in terms of balance.
It is simply a format with more options, and has checks and balances that keeps the broken cards you're referring to in check.
Which is a spiteful nonsense position but that is how I feel re: vintage/legacy
unrelated: rare dual lands are a tool of the great satan
- did a live stream of our local ptq in Edmonton (theros block limited). Was super fun, 8 rds of Swiss sealed deck and top 8 draft. Going in, I assumed the format would be much slower, but aggressive rw heroic decks still showed a lot of dominance. My favorite deck we covered was a guy who played essentially rg tokens - had copies of xengos pwalker, revel of the Fallen god, fated intervention, flurry of horns, and hall of triumph. Watching the guy play the hall on green then following up a turn or 2 later with surprise centaurs on the opponent's end step and main phase revel led to some of the biggest blowouts. Top card of the day HAD to be ajani's presence though. Card is sick in limited.
- local PT champ Shaun Macleran and local grinder Andrew Huska faced off in the semis of GP Minneapolis. So sweet to see friends making it on the big stage. Shame to see Curly (Andrew's nickname) lose in the finals, but Alberta magic is making a splash. Expect big things from the little province that could!
Mmmmm....toasty.
I didn't know people actually gave a shit about vintage still though
That said, Vintage Masters exists to print Legacy cards waaaaay more than the P9.
3DS: 0232-8293-7683
Boros Elite into 2x Boros Elite into Spear is also kinda hilarious, swinging for 12 on turn 3 isn't something that a lot of decks can pull off
So fuck the reserved list.
But think of all the collectors whose portfolios are 100% in Dual Lands and Sliver Queens! You could bankrupt these people!
let's say I'm playing with this deck (spoiler: I am, it's been pretty fun so far):
4 Rakdos Cackler
4 Firedrinker Satyr
4 Akroan Crusader
4 Ash Zealot
3 Arena Athlete
3 Everflame Eidolon
4 Prophetic Flamespeaker
4 Titan's Strength
4 Madcap
4 Dragon Mantle
2 Hall of Triumph
18 mountain
2 mutavault
how the f do i sideboard
especially against u/w: what should I be doing? If it's already designed to go pretty dang fast, do i... find a way to go faster? I guess I just don't really know where to start; I'd thought maybe Arena Athlete would be an easy drop, but if Nyx-fleece Ram starts coming out of the board he seems pretty solid again
maybe have bestow (warhound) to bring in as opposed to madcap?
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
Eidolon of the Great Revel vs other swarm decks.
Harnass by Force against green decks.
Maybe font of ire?
Mmmmm....toasty.
I like the thought of Harness actually, yeah, I was at first a little doubtful because I was misremembering it at 4cmc
font seems hella clunky, but is clunky in a way that makes me want it to be secretly a good idea
maybe purph would stretch my 1-drops further into the game?
Mmmmm....toasty.
granting you access to boros charm/chained and ghor clan/domri respectively
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
Legion loyalist is pretty nifty, hasty 1/1 with some neat battalion effects. Maybe mugging in the sideboard to combat the rams?
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/299a
Try not to hurt yourself laughing.
too late
I would definitely play hammer sb (like 2 probably) and splashing either optimal color gives you pretty powerful tools at no real harm to the manabase
skullcracks always good too as I think was mentioned above
also going white gets you wear/tear in addition to b. charm/chained
holy shit what a mess
ineedmayo.com Eidolon Journal Updated
and what the fuck even is the deck
You play tokens, and gain life.
if only there were a deck that did that
that had sisters
and maybe?
maybe soul!
but im pretty sure a questionably put together BW tokens list that is worth less than the MSRP does not bode well
I honestly don't know if the people who are disappointed with it were actually expecting multiple fetches or what?
did you use arabian nights city of brass
p. sure nothing else is over 5 bucks
Out of sheer curiosity I tossed it into ChannelFireball, it's like only like $200 or so buying the singles. On top of that I have no fucking idea why you'd run Isolated Chapel over Godless Shrine or for that matter why you'd run Honor of the Pure over basically any other anthem considering that you're running Tidehollow Scuttler and Myr tokens that won't benefit from Honor of the Pure at all. Hell, Path of Bravery even fits the minor lifegain theme they're apparently going for.
A minor nitpick, but Tidehollow Sculler does indeed benefit from HotP. However, Tidehollow does not play well with Kataki.
I guess what really bothers me about this deck is not the theme of tokens. It's that Modern is bloody expensive to get into and this deck does not help with a buy in, or give more availability to the really expensive cards that prevent many from getting into the format (i.e Noble Heirarch [$57], Bitterblossom [$47], fetchlands [$40-100]).
Just man up and put Godless Shrines in there. They're currently cheaper than they'll be for a good long time.
They're so terrified of pissing of dealers, this deck was never going to be substantial.
It's a two hundred dollar deck for less then half that they gets you about half way towards either tokens or soul sisters. Yes it really should have had at least one bitterblossom but you people act like they spite in your damn faces.
And godless shrines? An easy addition they anybody making the leap from standard could make. That's why it's not a shrine. That's why the duress arnt thoughtsiezes.
That... uh... was the joke.
Someone said "what even is this?" I was all, "it's simple and dumb!"
You can lighten up, you know. Won't kill you.