the only bad part is I'm abstaining from playing with any class that I got 12 with and rogues are currently my best arena
but im super happy about it
it felt like I was able to ride that edge that the rogue needs of taking face damage for removal and going for the opponent when he has the opportunity
only thing that I would say was a mis-draft was taking the sea giant over the blood knight, but I felt like my "late game" was lacking
I'm not certain why people dislike Northshire cleric so much. She's basically the only 1 drop worth running in Priest decks, and the fact you can bait out an enemy's removal/coin with a turn you're otherwise dead on is huge.
I get that her power can be "played around" but the tempo you gain from having an opponent swing for the fences T2 or not drop a leper gnome T1 for fear of you just getting a free draw is nice. Plus the occasional holy nova combo is as fun as UtH Buzzard.
Nobody dislikes her. The conversation here has been calls for nerfs to her, and the rebuttals have focused on her negatives, because a priest nerf at this point would be lunacy.
i've found in general that the classes people get angriest about (warrior, hunter, priest, mage) are the ones that, amusingly, are probably the least in need of nerfs
My complaints about warrior and hunter haven't been their power level, but the fact to play them effectively, you're basically playing a different game. It has nothing to do with the board, it's "will I draw the cards I need and be able to hit this person in the face enough times to kill them before I lose" Hunter is just looking for a couple specific combos and do as much damage to the face until then, and warrior is always go for the face, always play charge minions.
It is fairly strong, and mostly easily counterable. That's not the point. It's not playing hearthstone and isn't fun for the person playing with the deck or against it IMO.
Priests people complain about because their cards are frustrating, not powerful. They steal your minions and the cards from your deck, and keep healing high health minions that you can't remove, when they're winning. They're mostly bad but people remember losing to them, and the other annoying tricks they have.
Mage is still pretty powerful in arena, and I don't think people have a problem with the ones playing a flame strike or two, and some poly's. I think the freeze mages, even though they've been nerfed an mostly suck, are just frustrating to play against and again create an illusion of being powerful. Frost nova and Cone of Cold suck, but everyone remembers those games were every minion was frozen for 3 straight turns and you couldn't do anything.
That's like saying 6 pooling or 4 gating someone in starcraft 2 isn't playing the game. It's part of the game. If it the game was about "jockey about for shit on the board" for 5 turns then you can start attacking the other guy then the deck wouldn't exist or it wouldn't win the same way.
Except in this case blizzard keeps nerfing cards and changing things that allow people to bypass the board.
no they changed things that were OTKs
also i have a lot of fun playing warrior aggro, so you know, i'd like you to not tell me what i think
it's very engaging to play a very aggressive playstyle, to pause and think "okay can i still go on the offensive or am i going to fuck myself over if i ignore that minion". i would argue that that decision is in fact one every single deck makes (and as such i am "playing hearthstone"), but the difference is that as i am playing warrior aggro i have a number of very aggressive cards available to me, as all my weapons and charge minions allow me to make decisions instantly instead of waiting a turn
and you know what? i am playing hearthstone. i selected class cards that i was designed to take advantage of.
YOU don't like the class. YOU are telling me that you know better than me what the game i should be playing is, and how I should be having fun with the game, and you know what? Seriously, I mean this without malice, but shut the fuck up. You're the guy telling me I shouldn't throw in a fighting game. You're the guy telling me that I can't bring a certain deck to a tournament. You're the guy saying that I'm not getting the true Smash Bros experience if I'm playing with items on.
Don't tell me how to have fun using game mechanics just because you don't have fun doing it.
Basically, say you don't enjoy playing with or against the deck, that's fine (there's plenty of decks I don't like playing against), but don't be all judgmental and goosey about it.
"shoot druids into the sun" - Okay to say. Hyperbolic. Obviously born of frustration, but jokey.
"People who play druids aren't even playing this game, they just latch onto the FOTM because they don't want to think and drop pay2win dollars on the game so they can crush people and feel good about their penis." Bad. Born of frustration, and makes judgements about fellow forum posters. Goosey. Reflects insecurities about my own genitalia.
They also changed frost mage with the reasoning that they were bypassing the board. It would not shock me at all if those decks were the next change targets, along with some nerf to druid. That is, if I wasn't also sure that they were going to stick to their guns on the "no more balance patches except for emergencies". We'll see if the expansions make a difference, but if they don't I'd expect blizzard to step in. Their vision for hearthstone was stated to be a game where both sides are vying for board control and trading mans, and my guess is things that evade that vision will become fixed soon(tm).
They changed frost mage because they were preventing board interaction. Frost mage didn't just ignore the board, they made you ignore the board. They made it so that you couldn't play board control and forced you to sit there and watch as they played the game if your deck wasn't specifically built to deal with freeze mages. Charge aggro is not equivalent.
It's not playing hearthstone and isn't fun for the person playing with the deck or against it IMO.
which are directly judging and making statements about me (as a person who plays the deck) really get under my skin
that said tommatt, if you feel i have been unduly angry towards you, i do apologize, as i am aware that i often have an aggressive tone which can elicit the sense of being attacked and spat on, and that is not my intention
They changed frost mage because they were preventing board interaction. Frost mage didn't just ignore the board, they made you ignore the board. They made it so that you couldn't play board control and forced you to sit there and watch as they played the game if your deck wasn't specifically built to deal with freeze mages. Charge aggro is not equivalent.
Well then I'm sure you have nothing to worry about
They changed frost mage because they were preventing board interaction. Frost mage didn't just ignore the board, they made you ignore the board. They made it so that you couldn't play board control and forced you to sit there and watch as they played the game if your deck wasn't specifically built to deal with freeze mages. Charge aggro is not equivalent.
Well then I'm sure you have nothing to worry about
It's not playing hearthstone and isn't fun for the person playing with the deck or against it IMO.
which are directly judging and making statements about me (as a person who plays the deck) really get under my skin
that said tommatt, if you feel i have been unduly angry towards you, i do apologize, as i am aware that i often have an aggressive tone which can elicit the sense of being attacked and spat on, and that is not my intention
Did you not see the part where this was my opinion? It's ok, you were a goose for half a page for all to see. I thought my posts killed your dog or something with how you were acting.
i think agentmayhem and i are in that perfect timezone mismatch where i'll wait for a bit, go eat, he messages me, waits for a bit, goes to eat, i come back, message back, wait a bit, go to do something, he comes back, he messages me, etc etc
sighhh 0-2 with a p good rogue deck because of legendaries and not being offered any silences. Cairne on a p good mage deck and Tirion on a pally deck totally pushed my shit in.
Trying to deal with Leeroy with UtH is awful. It mitigates all of Leeroy's drawbacks, which aren't many since nobody expects a charge minion to survive a turn to begin with.
Trying to deal with Leeroy with UtH is awful. It mitigates all of Leeroy's drawbacks, which aren't many since nobody expects a charge minion to survive a turn to begin with.
I think HS might benefit from some hand attacking cards; stuff akin to Cabal Therapy or Cranial Extraction would go a long way to making OTK stuff a little more tame by just putting options on the table for neutralizing it.
PLus, you could say the same about fan of knives and leeroy.
Lilnoobs on
0
BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited March 2014
UtH feels like its only counters are Mogu'Shan Warden and Fen Creeper, which is pretty annoying. All the other neutral taunters die to Explosive Shot/Kill Command.
The Buzzard+UtH combo tends to be 4 mana for draw 2+ cards, then kill x enemy creatures, which is pretty insane, even for 2 cards.
It also inherently punishes things like the Paladin passive, or just taking board dominance in general.
PLus, you could say the same about fan of knives and leeroy.
Fan of knives and leeroy is not at all the same? It costs more and the big thing is that fan of knives *doesn't increase Leeroy's damage.*
Leeroy+UtH is 8 damage on T6 minimum, +1 per card on board. On T7, it's 10 damage minimum +2 per card on board, because Timber Wolf. That is pretty ridiculous. Something something hunters aren't overpowered, but having everything locked up in UtH custom combos is frustrating.
UtH feels like its only counters are Mogu'Shan Warden and Fen Creeper, which is pretty annoying. All the other neutral taunters die to Explosive Shot/Kill Command.
The Buzzard+UtH combo tends to be 4 mana for draw 2+ cards, then kill x enemy creatures, which is pretty insane, even for 2 cards.
It also inherently punishes things like the Paladin passive, or just taking board dominance in general.
I find i have options against even a big taunt like Fen Creeper or Sunwalker; Deadly Shot takes care of either threat, while Hunter's Mark takes care of the former (and any other big taunt) at the additional cost of 1 dog.
I have to say, I'm in love with my UtH + Buzzard combo, but it's definitely ridiculous.
Can't speak to Leeroy, since I use UtH & Buzzard for card draw / board control rather than lethal damage. I'm sure it's good, but Leeroy is good in just about any aggro deck in combination with any attack booster (Cold Blood, Power Overwhelming), so the dogs don't seem to be doing anything exceptional in that case.
I think HS might benefit from some hand attacking cards; stuff akin to Cabal Therapy or Cranial Extraction would go a long way to making OTK stuff a little more tame by just putting options on the table for neutralizing it.
heck, even "opponent discards a single card." Coercion could be pretty worthwhile, too. Hymn and other random discards would be awesome.
but then which classes get discard? priest, obviously, but then who? head-smashing warrior, thief steals from hand, hunter... sharpshoots...?
Delirium Skeins-style card for warlock, 100%.
...yeah, HS hasn't explored mill or hand destruction at all yet. they've still got some pretty wide-open design spaces to explore.
Leeroy+dogs is at minimum giving you a free hero power that requires a response in some fashion to remove at a later point, and then it has the actual dogs for the opponent's board before Leeroy. If the game has dragged on super late (and despite people saying "hunter rush loses super late," good draws of trap/good luck with misdirection ensures that the opponent can only meaningfully interact with the board by killing your already-value minions off), it also gives you two extra hounds for whatever custom combo you're throwing together; two more draws with buzzard, 4 extra damage with timber wolf, +4/+2 on scavenging, 12 extra damage in some kind of dreamy miracle double hounds+double timber+Leeroy hand (you'd really only need one hounds since you'd hit the board limit, but the double hounds against 2 minions that aren't the whelps let's you clear them off almost regardless of size), +2 tosses of Knife Juggler with the downside they might hit the whelps... there are a *lot* of things that get benefit from being able to have two more beasts out on the field.
Also, I am pretty sure that Priests need a big, fat, sexy taunt. That'd help with their problem of not actually having anything great to heal besides lightwell/lightspawn shenanigans. Maybe a taunt that reduced the attack of any minion it damaged by 1... that'd mean they aren't hard countered by literally any 4 attack drop. Priests, warriors, and rogues are the only classes to not have taunts inherently, too, and priests certainly seem like a more defensive class.
but then which classes get discard? priest, obviously, but then who? head-smashing warrior, thief steals from hand, hunter... sharpshoots...?
I think I'd like it put on a neutral body, for the most part.
Maybe a 3 drop or 5 drop with half decent stats that causes a random discard or two, a 2 drop or 3 drop with crappy stats that lets you control the discard in some way (to break combos)... and then maybe something just totally brutal as a 6 drop. Like, "This guy puts a Pox card in your opponent's hand." "Pox: Cost 4. While it is in your hand, you are at your hand limit. Cast: deal 2 damage to target minion you control."
Well, I caved and basically made almost the original Reynad warrior (minus mortal strike and plus dark iron, since I didn't have the dust for mortal strikes). All I can say is god damn it's so much faster than the priest I'd been running.
EDIT: Also, Frothing Berserker is about the closest you can get to "strictly better" than flesheating ghoul without *actually* being strictly better, since I guess it'll get less fat against priests in some edge cases.
milski on
I ate an engineer
0
GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
edited March 2014
I'm p sure it was in an interview at some point that Mind Vision and Thoughtsteal exist because Blizzard doesn't want real discard/cardsteal because it feels bad on the receiving end. Doesn't mean they can't change their mind three expansions down the line, though.
In the WoW TCG, which is the biggest influence on this game, Priest, Rogue and Warlock had discard.
It's not playing hearthstone and isn't fun for the person playing with the deck or against it IMO.
which are directly judging and making statements about me (as a person who plays the deck) really get under my skin
that said tommatt, if you feel i have been unduly angry towards you, i do apologize, as i am aware that i often have an aggressive tone which can elicit the sense of being attacked and spat on, and that is not my intention
Did you not see the part where this was my opinion? It's ok, you were a goose for half a page for all to see. I thought my posts killed your dog or something with how you were acting.
"In my opinion you're playing the game wrong and don't even know what fun is, no offense nothing personal, just think you're kind of really dumb"
Could you see how it doesn't matter if you plug IMO at the end of a sentence where you hold an elitist disparaging opinion about someone?
Please no discard spells or creatures. It's fucking annoying to play against, just like counterspell effects. I know there are some of those effects in this game, but they are secrets so you can at least try to play around them.
I find it crazy that people are complaining about charging minions "reducing interaction", but then they want discard effects in the game. You can't interact if you don't have any cards! And since not everyone plays/wants to play control, not everyone has 5+ cards in their hand at all times. Why don't you just use one of the cards in your hand to respond to whatever I play?
In my opinion you're a fat slob. Do you think that is an opinion you would be ok with me holding?
All I wanna know is why is Michelangelo carrying a gun.
Glad none of you guys critiqued my deck now cause it was a pile of shit apparently. Or I just got matched against jackass druids with handfuls of swipes, card draws, and 187 creatures.
Got my best pack yet, though I don't play any of those classes from going 2-3.
So, I opened another pack and pulled a Millhouse Manastorm. Should I vendor Millhouse + Illidan for another legendary of my choosing? I play mostly Hunter though I think I'd like to try some Rogue soon. Leeroy, maybe?
Posts
I would argue this is the one of the most ridiculously good decks ever drafted
http://arenamastery.com/ROQx
the only bad part is I'm abstaining from playing with any class that I got 12 with and rogues are currently my best arena
but im super happy about it
it felt like I was able to ride that edge that the rogue needs of taking face damage for removal and going for the opponent when he has the opportunity
only thing that I would say was a mis-draft was taking the sea giant over the blood knight, but I felt like my "late game" was lacking
My complaints about warrior and hunter haven't been their power level, but the fact to play them effectively, you're basically playing a different game. It has nothing to do with the board, it's "will I draw the cards I need and be able to hit this person in the face enough times to kill them before I lose" Hunter is just looking for a couple specific combos and do as much damage to the face until then, and warrior is always go for the face, always play charge minions.
It is fairly strong, and mostly easily counterable. That's not the point. It's not playing hearthstone and isn't fun for the person playing with the deck or against it IMO.
Priests people complain about because their cards are frustrating, not powerful. They steal your minions and the cards from your deck, and keep healing high health minions that you can't remove, when they're winning. They're mostly bad but people remember losing to them, and the other annoying tricks they have.
Mage is still pretty powerful in arena, and I don't think people have a problem with the ones playing a flame strike or two, and some poly's. I think the freeze mages, even though they've been nerfed an mostly suck, are just frustrating to play against and again create an illusion of being powerful. Frost nova and Cone of Cold suck, but everyone remembers those games were every minion was frozen for 3 straight turns and you couldn't do anything.
no they changed things that were OTKs
also i have a lot of fun playing warrior aggro, so you know, i'd like you to not tell me what i think
it's very engaging to play a very aggressive playstyle, to pause and think "okay can i still go on the offensive or am i going to fuck myself over if i ignore that minion". i would argue that that decision is in fact one every single deck makes (and as such i am "playing hearthstone"), but the difference is that as i am playing warrior aggro i have a number of very aggressive cards available to me, as all my weapons and charge minions allow me to make decisions instantly instead of waiting a turn
and you know what? i am playing hearthstone. i selected class cards that i was designed to take advantage of.
YOU don't like the class. YOU are telling me that you know better than me what the game i should be playing is, and how I should be having fun with the game, and you know what? Seriously, I mean this without malice, but shut the fuck up. You're the guy telling me I shouldn't throw in a fighting game. You're the guy telling me that I can't bring a certain deck to a tournament. You're the guy saying that I'm not getting the true Smash Bros experience if I'm playing with items on.
Don't tell me how to have fun using game mechanics just because you don't have fun doing it.
"shoot druids into the sun" - Okay to say. Hyperbolic. Obviously born of frustration, but jokey.
"People who play druids aren't even playing this game, they just latch onto the FOTM because they don't want to think and drop pay2win dollars on the game so they can crush people and feel good about their penis." Bad. Born of frustration, and makes judgements about fellow forum posters. Goosey. Reflects insecurities about my own genitalia.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
Trump's Arena Tier List is a good place to start.
Feel free to value things differently based on how you like to play, though.
statements like
which are directly judging and making statements about me (as a person who plays the deck) really get under my skin
that said tommatt, if you feel i have been unduly angry towards you, i do apologize, as i am aware that i often have an aggressive tone which can elicit the sense of being attacked and spat on, and that is not my intention
Well then I'm sure you have nothing to worry about
I don't think I have anything to worry about :v
Did you not see the part where this was my opinion? It's ok, you were a goose for half a page for all to see. I thought my posts killed your dog or something with how you were acting.
How is the tournament going are people doing their matches
The first one was epic, I think I was at one or two health for five turns at least before pulling the right cards to win
Several people still need to play their matches tonight/tomorrow!
We've got @TannerMS @Invictus @MMMig @Creamstout and @LavaKnight currently going 3-0 at the end of Round 3 (end for them).
It'll be a big week next round to see who continues undefeated!
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
frustration level high
I think HS might benefit from some hand attacking cards; stuff akin to Cabal Therapy or Cranial Extraction would go a long way to making OTK stuff a little more tame by just putting options on the table for neutralizing it.
PLus, you could say the same about fan of knives and leeroy.
The Buzzard+UtH combo tends to be 4 mana for draw 2+ cards, then kill x enemy creatures, which is pretty insane, even for 2 cards.
It also inherently punishes things like the Paladin passive, or just taking board dominance in general.
Fan of knives and leeroy is not at all the same? It costs more and the big thing is that fan of knives *doesn't increase Leeroy's damage.*
Leeroy+UtH is 8 damage on T6 minimum, +1 per card on board. On T7, it's 10 damage minimum +2 per card on board, because Timber Wolf. That is pretty ridiculous. Something something hunters aren't overpowered, but having everything locked up in UtH custom combos is frustrating.
I find i have options against even a big taunt like Fen Creeper or Sunwalker; Deadly Shot takes care of either threat, while Hunter's Mark takes care of the former (and any other big taunt) at the additional cost of 1 dog.
I have to say, I'm in love with my UtH + Buzzard combo, but it's definitely ridiculous.
Can't speak to Leeroy, since I use UtH & Buzzard for card draw / board control rather than lethal damage. I'm sure it's good, but Leeroy is good in just about any aggro deck in combination with any attack booster (Cold Blood, Power Overwhelming), so the dogs don't seem to be doing anything exceptional in that case.
heck, even "opponent discards a single card." Coercion could be pretty worthwhile, too. Hymn and other random discards would be awesome.
but then which classes get discard? priest, obviously, but then who? head-smashing warrior, thief steals from hand, hunter... sharpshoots...?
Delirium Skeins-style card for warlock, 100%.
...yeah, HS hasn't explored mill or hand destruction at all yet. they've still got some pretty wide-open design spaces to explore.
Also, I am pretty sure that Priests need a big, fat, sexy taunt. That'd help with their problem of not actually having anything great to heal besides lightwell/lightspawn shenanigans. Maybe a taunt that reduced the attack of any minion it damaged by 1... that'd mean they aren't hard countered by literally any 4 attack drop. Priests, warriors, and rogues are the only classes to not have taunts inherently, too, and priests certainly seem like a more defensive class.
I think I'd like it put on a neutral body, for the most part.
Maybe a 3 drop or 5 drop with half decent stats that causes a random discard or two, a 2 drop or 3 drop with crappy stats that lets you control the discard in some way (to break combos)... and then maybe something just totally brutal as a 6 drop. Like, "This guy puts a Pox card in your opponent's hand." "Pox: Cost 4. While it is in your hand, you are at your hand limit. Cast: deal 2 damage to target minion you control."
EDIT: Also, Frothing Berserker is about the closest you can get to "strictly better" than flesheating ghoul without *actually* being strictly better, since I guess it'll get less fat against priests in some edge cases.
In the WoW TCG, which is the biggest influence on this game, Priest, Rogue and Warlock had discard.
"In my opinion you're playing the game wrong and don't even know what fun is, no offense nothing personal, just think you're kind of really dumb"
Could you see how it doesn't matter if you plug IMO at the end of a sentence where you hold an elitist disparaging opinion about someone?
INANTP didn't do anything wrong. You did.
In my opinion you're a fat slob. Do you think that is an opinion you would be ok with me holding?
I find it crazy that people are complaining about charging minions "reducing interaction", but then they want discard effects in the game. You can't interact if you don't have any cards! And since not everyone plays/wants to play control, not everyone has 5+ cards in their hand at all times. Why don't you just use one of the cards in your hand to respond to whatever I play?
All I wanna know is why is Michelangelo carrying a gun.
Glad none of you guys critiqued my deck now cause it was a pile of shit apparently. Or I just got matched against jackass druids with handfuls of swipes, card draws, and 187 creatures.
Got my best pack yet, though I don't play any of those classes from going 2-3.
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