PLus, you could say the same about fan of knives and leeroy.
Fan of knives and leeroy is not at all the same? It costs more and the big thing is that fan of knives *doesn't increase Leeroy's damage.*
Leeroy+UtH is 8 damage on T6 minimum, +1 per card on board. On T7, it's 10 damage minimum +2 per card on board, because Timber Wolf. That is pretty ridiculous. Something something hunters aren't overpowered, but having everything locked up in UtH custom combos is frustrating.
You said it negates Leeroy's downside, which I attributed to the whelps that are spawned.
But this, you're right, I can't compare because it's a highly dependent situation.
But yeah, I agree UtH is frustrating because you pretty much have to play around it.
So, I opened another pack and pulled a Millhouse Manastorm. Should I vendor Millhouse + Illidan for another legendary of my choosing? I play mostly Hunter though I think I'd like to try some Rogue soon. Leeroy, maybe?
This right here is what's going to halt my Arena playing. I just played a guy who played 3 Epics; my deck has 4 Rares.
Sometimes you're the one with 3 Epics, that's the whole point. If you want a deck-building experience less dependent on RNG, allow me to suggest Constructed play.
This right here is what's going to halt my Arena playing. I just played a guy who played 3 Epics; my deck has 4 Rares.
You don't need epics and/or legendaries to do well in arena. They obviously help and certain ones are back breaking, but having a good curve and making good plays will get you pretty far regardless of how bad your draft is.
@Einzel Here's comments on your draft if you wanted them
1: Violet teacher is significantly better than Auctioneer as it's cheaper so you can cast a spell in the same turn earlier and the body is better.
9: I would take the bomber here as I feel like 2 drops are more important than 3 drops, but kind of a personal choice.
22: I'm not 100% tracking your curve, but I think you're low on 2 drops at this point. If so you should pick one of them.
23: You have way to many 4 drops and very few 3 drops and the difference between Argus and Imp Master is pretty small.
24: I believe you have 1 frostbolt and no blizzards at this point so I'd take the 1 damage charge over a single target freeze.
25: Once again I don't have an exact count, but I think you need 3 drops more than 2 drops at this point.
28: Boulderfist Ogre is significantly better than Stormwind Champion for a mage as it's cheaper and better stats and your class in unlikely to flood the board
30: I'd probably take Vaporize, it's mediocre compared to Violet Teacher but you're overloaded on 4 drops and if pick 1 was changed you'd have 2 already.
Last couple of days I've started every arena run 5-0, 6-0, only to cap out at 7-10 wins. One time I even went 8-0 just to get blasted out three in a row. Finally got over the hump today and go a 12-1! Had to win an absolutely EPIC match that went down to no card left in either hand/deck, and he just ended up taking more fatigue because the last card in his deck turned out to be Azure Drake. So unfortunate.
+1
TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
First three games of the new season and I hit two freeze mages, don't they know that shit isn't welcome anymore?
It's not playing hearthstone and isn't fun for the person playing with the deck or against it IMO.
which are directly judging and making statements about me (as a person who plays the deck) really get under my skin
that said tommatt, if you feel i have been unduly angry towards you, i do apologize, as i am aware that i often have an aggressive tone which can elicit the sense of being attacked and spat on, and that is not my intention
Did you not see the part where this was my opinion? It's ok, you were a goose for half a page for all to see. I thought my posts killed your dog or something with how you were acting.
"In my opinion you're playing the game wrong and don't even know what fun is, no offense nothing personal, just think you're kind of really dumb"
Could you see how it doesn't matter if you plug IMO at the end of a sentence where you hold an elitist disparaging opinion about someone?
INANTP didn't do anything wrong. You did.
Lets just brings something back up from yesterday you weren't even involved in. Are you his mom here to make sure everybody plays nice? I didn't attack anybody, I think the decks are stupid and go against what blizzard wants from the game. And I think it's bad design that to play as hunter, you have to play some sort of UTH combo. It's powerful, sometimes stupidly so, yet you have to play some form of it. Warrior? Ignore the board, and hit for the face, it's the best way to play the class. Try to play those two classes any other way and you're not going to win many games.
*edit* a little more on this. We were talking about hand attack cards, making the opponent discard. Cabal therapy lets you name a card, and they discard all of those. Is there any class, or any card that'd be more devestating to a match, then against he hunter playing a card like that and saying UTH? If they discard both it's game over. What single card would you remove from a mage/druid deck that would completely neuter it? Yeah, losing poly or fireball would hurt, but you could still play the game. If somebody could make you discard both UTH as a hunter, well, might as well hit concede because it's all you got.
So, I opened another pack and pulled a Millhouse Manastorm. Should I vendor Millhouse + Illidan for another legendary of my choosing? I play mostly Hunter though I think I'd like to try some Rogue soon. Leeroy, maybe?
This right here is what's going to halt my Arena playing. I just played a guy who played 3 Epics; my deck has 4 Rares.
You don't need epics and/or legendaries to do well in arena. They obviously help and certain ones are back breaking, but having a good curve and making good plays will get you pretty far regardless of how bad your draft is.
@Einzel Here's comments on your draft if you wanted them
1: Violet teacher is significantly better than Auctioneer as it's cheaper so you can cast a spell in the same turn earlier and the body is better.
9: I would take the bomber here as I feel like 2 drops are more important than 3 drops, but kind of a personal choice.
22: I'm not 100% tracking your curve, but I think you're low on 2 drops at this point. If so you should pick one of them.
23: You have way to many 4 drops and very few 3 drops and the difference between Argus and Imp Master is pretty small.
24: I believe you have 1 frostbolt and no blizzards at this point so I'd take the 1 damage charge over a single target freeze.
25: Once again I don't have an exact count, but I think you need 3 drops more than 2 drops at this point.
28: Boulderfist Ogre is significantly better than Stormwind Champion for a mage as it's cheaper and better stats and your class in unlikely to flood the board
30: I'd probably take Vaporize, it's mediocre compared to Violet Teacher but you're overloaded on 4 drops and if pick 1 was changed you'd have 2 already.
1. Hindsight was 20/20 on this one after a few more picks in
9. It was a big tossup and what sealed it for me was I hate RNG type cards. I always feel like they hose me.
24. I really didn't want to pick this one but it's a spell and I had some freeze.
My curve is very very heavy at 2 and 4 positions. I don't expect great things from this deck.
And regarding the rarity value across various arenas it just seems like the game might be better served if it were closer to real card drafting. For instance if the 30 card split were always 1 legendary, 3 epic, 6 rare, 11 common, 11 basic I think it would be less swingy. I know card power isn't tied directly into the rarity (as it shouldn't be), but I can't imagine the feeling of going 0-3 with what you thought was a good deck because you got matched up against three people who won the arena lottery.
And by the way, that deck just went 0-3 so I'm just going to assume that for me, a pack of cards costs 150g.
Just had an absolutely epic game in Arena. Sad one of us had to win. 0-0 first game as a mage, go back and forth with this warrior competing for board control and chipping away. Get into a top deck battle, and had to make a couple hard decisions playing with a vaporize in play. He played around it, but then misplayed when summoning an argent commander and attacking with him first. Divine shield meant nothing. Maybe he wanted to save his 5/4 with taunt? After that it was a simple drake, mana wyrm, fireball on booty bay, and he was out of cards to play. Fatigue killed him off, as he was at 17hp and 5 armor when we ran out of cards, I was at around 20 hp.
This right here is what's going to halt my Arena playing. I just played a guy who played 3 Epics; my deck has 4 Rares.
You don't need epics and/or legendaries to do well in arena. They obviously help and certain ones are back breaking, but having a good curve and making good plays will get you pretty far regardless of how bad your draft is.
@Einzel Here's comments on your draft if you wanted them
1: Violet teacher is significantly better than Auctioneer as it's cheaper so you can cast a spell in the same turn earlier and the body is better.
9: I would take the bomber here as I feel like 2 drops are more important than 3 drops, but kind of a personal choice.
22: I'm not 100% tracking your curve, but I think you're low on 2 drops at this point. If so you should pick one of them.
23: You have way to many 4 drops and very few 3 drops and the difference between Argus and Imp Master is pretty small.
24: I believe you have 1 frostbolt and no blizzards at this point so I'd take the 1 damage charge over a single target freeze.
25: Once again I don't have an exact count, but I think you need 3 drops more than 2 drops at this point.
28: Boulderfist Ogre is significantly better than Stormwind Champion for a mage as it's cheaper and better stats and your class in unlikely to flood the board
30: I'd probably take Vaporize, it's mediocre compared to Violet Teacher but you're overloaded on 4 drops and if pick 1 was changed you'd have 2 already.
And regarding the rarity value across various arenas it just seems like the game might be better served if it were closer to real card drafting. For instance if the 30 card split were always 1 legendary, 3 epic, 6 rare, 11 common, 11 basic I think it would be less swingy. I know card power isn't tied directly into the rarity (as it shouldn't be), but I can't imagine the feeling of going 0-3 with what you thought was a good deck because you got matched up against three people who won the arena lottery.
The reason you can't imagine it is that, assuming you're a decent player, the chances of drafting a good deck then going 0-3 are really low. And because of that, the feeling should be 'no big deal.' If you're a good player who runs a lot of arena, this is going to happen every once in a while, but you have tons of data to back up the fact that it's an anomaly. If you play only a few arenas and this happens to you once or twice, you *might* just be really unlucky. And if you play a lot but this happens regularly, then you are probably bad at the game and should look to improve.
As far as the rarity value variance, I really like it for two reasons:
1) It's enjoyable, on both sides of the coin. Seeing that legendary during the draft or picking up your 4th Swipe is a great feeling. It's also fun when your pauper Arena deck wins through Deathwing and Pyroblast or whatever.
2) It keeps the bad players interested. This is really important. The more skill-based a game becomes, the more likely it is that the 'better' player wins a given matchup. Evening out the variance might be great for the first week or whatever, but when the bad players start to consistently go 0-3 because it's no longer possible to catch lightning in a bottle during the draft, they stop playing Arena. And then the definition of an 'average' Arena player shifts upward and no one is happy. I have to remind my friends of this all the time when they go into their inevitable poker "bad beat" stories.
#1 Teacher over Auctioneer. Big body, no clue how many spells you'll get. Abom is also a legit choice here not knowing how many spells you'll have.
2. Wolfrider. 3/1 with charge is basically a 3 cost 3 dmg spell. I hate cone of cold unless the other choices are bad. Wolfrider is good. If this was later in the draft, Golem can be the right choice if you need a fatie for late game.
#3 these are all bad cards but I probably take the archer. She's not a one drop, just one more dmg when you need it.
#17 I probably take the poly. You may have a lot of 4's already though, and a couple of fireballs.
21 I probably take the warlord.
22 depends on cuve. I take fen or Croc depending on if I need 2's, which I feel you do.
23 don't discount imp master. This I would pick on curve and if I have good targets for the defender. Blizzard could be ok as it's late in the draft and you still haven' been offered a flame strike.
24 ugh these are bad cards. Ummm, I don't like ice lance, you did pick a cone of cold earlier though. I'd look at trumps guide and the other guides and pick what they have rated higher. Could this be a case where goldshire is right?
The best part is I lost to a mage with several frost lances, cones of cold, and frostbolts.
0-2. Made one mistake against a rogue with shadow madness. Not that it would have mattered.
0-3. Mirror match against a priest who got tons of removal.
So that's 9 arena losses in a row today, almost every single one against decks that had handfuls and handfuls of removal since I never had any individual minion on the field for more than 2 turns. I think that's it for me for a long while.
On the other hand, I've yet to lose with my casual constructed priest deck.
Hmm. Tracking my games, my win rate with coin is 51.5%. It is 71.05% without it.
Guys. I need your help. How to coin?
Look at your opening hand. What turn are you going to have an awkward turn (nothing good to play, one mana short of playing something good). Coin on that turn.
Alternatively, coin out a two drop on the first turn, especially if you have multiple useful two drops.
Depending on your class, the coin is also good to save for a spell. Rogue probably gets the most use out of this, with Combo spells, as does a mage running, say, Mana Wyrm.
God. I've had this Mage or Hunter Dominance quest for like two weeks and haven't been offered Mage in arena one time. I normally wouldn't care, since I'm pretty sure I do better with Rogue anyway, but I outright refuse to do a Mage deck in constructed.
Hmm. Tracking my games, my win rate with coin is 51.5%. It is 71.05% without it.
Guys. I need your help. How to coin?
I've got a 73.86% win rate with coin over 88 games in arena, primarily playing mage, pally, druid and shaman. My main use of coin is to get an additional minion on the field. If it's turn 3 and I've got two 2 drops in my hand, I'll probably coin them out and play my three drop the next turn. I've found that this is usually a better play than coining one of them turn 1 (unless it's Faerie Dragon and I can ping a 2/1), because it gives you a few extra turns to see what else you draw. Combo plays tend to drop in strength past turn 6 though, so there's something of a narrow window to really get the most out of it as accelerating out a single minion leaves you open to removal.
One thing I tend not to do is mana wyrm + coin + arcane missiles. 3-6 damage to the face isn't worth it, I like to wait until they've got a minion on field (coin + another wyrm/mirror image is rad as hell though). If you do boost a minion out, it helps if it's tough to get rid of. Faerie Dragon like I said, or Tazdingo are good picks. Some people like harvest golem but because it struggles with 3 hp minions I'm not too keen on it. You only get one shot at playing first (unless you're OP druid), so you really want a card that can 2 for 1, or at least trade up.
Because I consider arena to be much more worth my time than constructed, and I'd happily pick mage in arena, so it feels like a waste of time. I pretty much only play constructed when I have a quest for a class that I don't play well enough to risk gold on.
11 wins with a paladin I thought was going to be mediocre. That's my best run yet. I'm a bit peeved that my final game, I ran a mage to an empty hand and stabilized the board, only to lose to a top deck fireball. It was going to be touch and go from that point on anyway, and I don't feel cheated, but I really wanted that 12 and I don't think I could have done anything differently to win that game.
It's somewhat frustrating that the only decent option I have for drawing cards as a Hunter is Buzzard+UTH; I don't necessarily want to include gnomes or azure drake and Tracking is kind of garbage.
Flare would be really nice if Secrets/Stealthed creatures were in more than every third or fourth game.
I think we should start doing draft nights. I know someone else mentioned it but since it's soooooo easy to stream I think we should just have a night where we draft and run. It'll basically be free if we know ahead of time.
I think we should start doing draft nights. I know someone else mentioned it but since it's soooooo easy to stream I think we should just have a night where we draft and run. It'll basically be free if we know ahead of time.
Was thinking Tuesday night. What do you think?
I am totally on board with this. I guess I would really like a general night when people hang out and play and do stuff; I hoped that the tournament match night would do this, but it doesn't appear to have done so.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
Just took that mage deck I'm running in arena to another fatigue game. I still had 2 cards left to draw, and he was fatigued with nothing left to play. I was down to 2 hp. He overplayed his hand IMO with me in a bad spot, and a flame strike being able to all but clear the board. Then I draw a second FS shortly later to regain control for good.
I won't disagree that it would be nice if there were more viable ways to play Hunter and Warrior. I think every class really needs some more options in general. Oh well, wait for expansions I guess.
Posts
You said it negates Leeroy's downside, which I attributed to the whelps that are spawned.
But this, you're right, I can't compare because it's a highly dependent situation.
But yeah, I agree UtH is frustrating because you pretty much have to play around it.
Quoting to avoid BotP.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
This is a stick up.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Pretty much what I was coming to post about. I've only done two so far but no epics my first and 3 in my second. Never seen a legendary.
It seems that not having a standardized "rarity value" for every player's arena draft makes the RNG even worse.
edit: third draft, nothing above rare. I'm not too confident in this one.
Ha ha! Now we're all jinxed!
This right here is what's going to halt my Arena playing. I just played a guy who played 3 Epics; my deck has 4 Rares.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Sometimes you're the one with 3 Epics, that's the whole point. If you want a deck-building experience less dependent on RNG, allow me to suggest Constructed play.
You don't need epics and/or legendaries to do well in arena. They obviously help and certain ones are back breaking, but having a good curve and making good plays will get you pretty far regardless of how bad your draft is.
@Einzel Here's comments on your draft if you wanted them
1: Violet teacher is significantly better than Auctioneer as it's cheaper so you can cast a spell in the same turn earlier and the body is better.
9: I would take the bomber here as I feel like 2 drops are more important than 3 drops, but kind of a personal choice.
22: I'm not 100% tracking your curve, but I think you're low on 2 drops at this point. If so you should pick one of them.
23: You have way to many 4 drops and very few 3 drops and the difference between Argus and Imp Master is pretty small.
24: I believe you have 1 frostbolt and no blizzards at this point so I'd take the 1 damage charge over a single target freeze.
25: Once again I don't have an exact count, but I think you need 3 drops more than 2 drops at this point.
28: Boulderfist Ogre is significantly better than Stormwind Champion for a mage as it's cheaper and better stats and your class in unlikely to flood the board
30: I'd probably take Vaporize, it's mediocre compared to Violet Teacher but you're overloaded on 4 drops and if pick 1 was changed you'd have 2 already.
I enjoyed this so much. The best part was his face when he played Deathwing, then his opponent went Faceless Manipulator, Big Game Hunter.
This video is more fun than playing! Going to see if I can switch languages now.
38thDoE on steam
Lets just brings something back up from yesterday you weren't even involved in. Are you his mom here to make sure everybody plays nice? I didn't attack anybody, I think the decks are stupid and go against what blizzard wants from the game. And I think it's bad design that to play as hunter, you have to play some sort of UTH combo. It's powerful, sometimes stupidly so, yet you have to play some form of it. Warrior? Ignore the board, and hit for the face, it's the best way to play the class. Try to play those two classes any other way and you're not going to win many games.
*edit* a little more on this. We were talking about hand attack cards, making the opponent discard. Cabal therapy lets you name a card, and they discard all of those. Is there any class, or any card that'd be more devestating to a match, then against he hunter playing a card like that and saying UTH? If they discard both it's game over. What single card would you remove from a mage/druid deck that would completely neuter it? Yeah, losing poly or fireball would hurt, but you could still play the game. If somebody could make you discard both UTH as a hunter, well, might as well hit concede because it's all you got.
Yes.
1. Hindsight was 20/20 on this one after a few more picks in
9. It was a big tossup and what sealed it for me was I hate RNG type cards. I always feel like they hose me.
24. I really didn't want to pick this one but it's a spell and I had some freeze.
My curve is very very heavy at 2 and 4 positions. I don't expect great things from this deck.
And regarding the rarity value across various arenas it just seems like the game might be better served if it were closer to real card drafting. For instance if the 30 card split were always 1 legendary, 3 epic, 6 rare, 11 common, 11 basic I think it would be less swingy. I know card power isn't tied directly into the rarity (as it shouldn't be), but I can't imagine the feeling of going 0-3 with what you thought was a good deck because you got matched up against three people who won the arena lottery.
And by the way, that deck just went 0-3 so I'm just going to assume that for me, a pack of cards costs 150g.
One of the best matches I've had in HS.
The reason you can't imagine it is that, assuming you're a decent player, the chances of drafting a good deck then going 0-3 are really low. And because of that, the feeling should be 'no big deal.' If you're a good player who runs a lot of arena, this is going to happen every once in a while, but you have tons of data to back up the fact that it's an anomaly. If you play only a few arenas and this happens to you once or twice, you *might* just be really unlucky. And if you play a lot but this happens regularly, then you are probably bad at the game and should look to improve.
As far as the rarity value variance, I really like it for two reasons:
1) It's enjoyable, on both sides of the coin. Seeing that legendary during the draft or picking up your 4th Swipe is a great feeling. It's also fun when your pauper Arena deck wins through Deathwing and Pyroblast or whatever.
2) It keeps the bad players interested. This is really important. The more skill-based a game becomes, the more likely it is that the 'better' player wins a given matchup. Evening out the variance might be great for the first week or whatever, but when the bad players start to consistently go 0-3 because it's no longer possible to catch lightning in a bottle during the draft, they stop playing Arena. And then the definition of an 'average' Arena player shifts upward and no one is happy. I have to remind my friends of this all the time when they go into their inevitable poker "bad beat" stories.
#1 Teacher over Auctioneer. Big body, no clue how many spells you'll get. Abom is also a legit choice here not knowing how many spells you'll have.
2. Wolfrider. 3/1 with charge is basically a 3 cost 3 dmg spell. I hate cone of cold unless the other choices are bad. Wolfrider is good. If this was later in the draft, Golem can be the right choice if you need a fatie for late game.
#3 these are all bad cards but I probably take the archer. She's not a one drop, just one more dmg when you need it.
#17 I probably take the poly. You may have a lot of 4's already though, and a couple of fireballs.
21 I probably take the warlord.
22 depends on cuve. I take fen or Croc depending on if I need 2's, which I feel you do.
23 don't discount imp master. This I would pick on curve and if I have good targets for the defender. Blizzard could be ok as it's late in the draft and you still haven' been offered a flame strike.
24 ugh these are bad cards. Ummm, I don't like ice lance, you did pick a cone of cold earlier though. I'd look at trumps guide and the other guides and pick what they have rated higher. Could this be a case where goldshire is right?
The best part is I lost to a mage with several frost lances, cones of cold, and frostbolts.
0-2. Made one mistake against a rogue with shadow madness. Not that it would have mattered.
0-3. Mirror match against a priest who got tons of removal.
So that's 9 arena losses in a row today, almost every single one against decks that had handfuls and handfuls of removal since I never had any individual minion on the field for more than 2 turns. I think that's it for me for a long while.
On the other hand, I've yet to lose with my casual constructed priest deck.
Guys. I need your help. How to coin?
Look at your opening hand. What turn are you going to have an awkward turn (nothing good to play, one mana short of playing something good). Coin on that turn.
Alternatively, coin out a two drop on the first turn, especially if you have multiple useful two drops.
Depending on your class, the coin is also good to save for a spell. Rogue probably gets the most use out of this, with Combo spells, as does a mage running, say, Mana Wyrm.
I've got a 73.86% win rate with coin over 88 games in arena, primarily playing mage, pally, druid and shaman. My main use of coin is to get an additional minion on the field. If it's turn 3 and I've got two 2 drops in my hand, I'll probably coin them out and play my three drop the next turn. I've found that this is usually a better play than coining one of them turn 1 (unless it's Faerie Dragon and I can ping a 2/1), because it gives you a few extra turns to see what else you draw. Combo plays tend to drop in strength past turn 6 though, so there's something of a narrow window to really get the most out of it as accelerating out a single minion leaves you open to removal.
One thing I tend not to do is mana wyrm + coin + arcane missiles. 3-6 damage to the face isn't worth it, I like to wait until they've got a minion on field (coin + another wyrm/mirror image is rad as hell though). If you do boost a minion out, it helps if it's tough to get rid of. Faerie Dragon like I said, or Tazdingo are good picks. Some people like harvest golem but because it struggles with 3 hp minions I'm not too keen on it. You only get one shot at playing first (unless you're OP druid), so you really want a card that can 2 for 1, or at least trade up.
Because I consider arena to be much more worth my time than constructed, and I'd happily pick mage in arena, so it feels like a waste of time. I pretty much only play constructed when I have a quest for a class that I don't play well enough to risk gold on.
Flare would be really nice if Secrets/Stealthed creatures were in more than every third or fourth game.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
Was thinking Tuesday night. What do you think?
I am totally on board with this. I guess I would really like a general night when people hang out and play and do stuff; I hoped that the tournament match night would do this, but it doesn't appear to have done so.
I have a feeling that this is going to become more common than it should