Furthermore, when Jerry takes the job with the alien government, he becomes fulfilled for pretty much the first time on the show. Going a long time unemployed can really wear on you -- I've been there. Even though the job turned out to be to the detriment of Earth (and his family), it was a real victory for him.
Honestly, part of the problem with Jerry's depiction is he's supposed to be overly pathetic in a show in which pretty much no one can truly handle the horrible shit Rick drops on them. Even Morty's only to the point where he can handle arguably 50 percent of what Rick does, and he's received the brunt of things. Meanwhile, Jerry had to endure being completely shredded in an air vent, devoured by an alien worm, being used as bait for another horrible creature and being kidnapped naked by a creature who will not be stopped, all in this episode alone. What the hell was he even supposed to do in these situations? Enduring even one of these in real life would probably reduce most of us to a catatonic and/or blubbering mess.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited August 2017
Now that is the whacky shit I'm here to see. Vastly better ratio of zany adventure to family drama. Jerry got called out for being the spineless idiot he is but also grew a bit of a spine, Beth got called out as shit for her insane devotion to Rick, Morty was basically running the show in his neck of the woods, and Summer... well, Summer had a rough day. Misusing a Rick device is obviously a bad idea, but high school is rough and teenagers aren't known for making smart decisions.
And seriously Beth, how could you look at the hoof collage and not think you need major help? Even Morty was appalled. Morty. Who sees Rick-level insanity on a regular basis.
Furthermore, when Jerry takes the job with the alien government, he becomes fulfilled for pretty much the first time on the show. Going a long time unemployed can really wear on you -- I've been there. Even though the job turned out to be to the detriment of Earth (and his family), it was a real victory for him.
Honestly, part of the problem with Jerry's depiction is he's supposed to be overly pathetic in a show in which pretty much no one can truly handle the horrible shit Rick drops on them. Even Morty's only to the point where he can handle arguably 50 percent of what Rick does, and he's received the brunt of things. Meanwhile, Jerry had to endure being completely shredded in an air vent, devoured by an alien worm, being used as bait for another horrible creature and being kidnapped naked by a creature who will not be stopped, all in this episode alone. What the hell was he even supposed to do in these situations? Enduring even one of these in real life would probably reduce most of us to a catatonic and/or blubbering mess.
I think I'd put it more towards a mixed or maybe even confused presentation of Jerry in the past that has taken an exceedingly vindictive turn this season. Previously, he was concerned for the kids, tried to bond with them, put in real effort to make things work with Beth and went the extra mile for her (eg the TCBY deer thing), etc etc. But this season, he put his foot down, explained everything to his family, they all sided with Rick, and pretty much froze him out, despite agreeing that Rick was a nightmare. And yet, they all start blaming him for not trying hard enough, or being too shitty a person, even though every time he reaches out to them, he gets rebuffed. I'm willing to take the characters/writers at their word that we're supposed to take Jerry as some kind of apex-patheticness predator, but that doesn't jive with the first couple seasons at all, and barely even this one.
Furthermore, when Jerry takes the job with the alien government, he becomes fulfilled for pretty much the first time on the show. Going a long time unemployed can really wear on you -- I've been there. Even though the job turned out to be to the detriment of Earth (and his family), it was a real victory for him.
Honestly, part of the problem with Jerry's depiction is he's supposed to be overly pathetic in a show in which pretty much no one can truly handle the horrible shit Rick drops on them. Even Morty's only to the point where he can handle arguably 50 percent of what Rick does, and he's received the brunt of things. Meanwhile, Jerry had to endure being completely shredded in an air vent, devoured by an alien worm, being used as bait for another horrible creature and being kidnapped naked by a creature who will not be stopped, all in this episode alone. What the hell was he even supposed to do in these situations? Enduring even one of these in real life would probably reduce most of us to a catatonic and/or blubbering mess.
I think I'd put it more towards a mixed or maybe even confused presentation of Jerry in the past that has taken an exceedingly vindictive turn this season. Previously, he was concerned for the kids, tried to bond with them, put in real effort to make things work with Beth and went the extra mile for her (eg the TCBY deer thing), etc etc. But this season, he put his foot down, explained everything to his family, they all sided with Rick, and pretty much froze him out, despite agreeing that Rick was a nightmare. And yet, they all start blaming him for not trying hard enough, or being too shitty a person, even though every time he reaches out to them, he gets rebuffed. I'm willing to take the characters/writers at their word that we're supposed to take Jerry as some kind of apex-patheticness predator, but that doesn't jive with the first couple seasons at all, and barely even this one.
I again point out that whenever actual danger happens, Jerry collapses like a cheap card table. He never risks anything without backup, literally THE most brave thing he's done in the entire show is bite that alien in the last episode. Rick is a gigantic asshole, but constantly puts forth a massive showing of courage in dangerous situations, which granted, he usually causes in the first place, but still. Is that an unfair standard to live up to? Yes, but this is the Rick and Morty show, not the Jerry and Nobody Show.
Golden YakBurnished BovineThe sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered Userregular
If you put the right pressures on Jerry yeah, he can bloom. Rick's presence crippled him. All couples have problems and those problems aren't all necessarily Rick's fault or his responsibility to address, but Rick sure didn't do anything to help Jerry's marriage, all he did was cut the man down constantly. Rick had made up his mind that their marriage was doomed, and when Rick makes up his mind about something... well, what the hell can you do against that? Rick may not be wrong about what might have been, but if he could stop resenting Jerry over it and maybe instead work towards making the family's life better with him as part of it, everyone could be much happier.
If you put the right pressures on Jerry yeah, he can bloom. Rick's presence crippled him. All couples have problems and those problems aren't all necessarily Rick's fault or his responsibility to address, but Rick sure didn't do anything to help Jerry's marriage, all he did was cut the man down constantly. Rick had made up his mind that their marriage was doomed, and when Rick makes up his mind about something... well, what the hell can you do against that? Rick may not be wrong about what might have been, but if he could stop resenting Jerry over it and maybe instead work towards making the family's life better with him as part of it, everyone could be much happier.
Yeah, thats not going to happen, Rick even spelled it out in the last episode that he blames Jerry for getting Beth pregnant when she was 17.
If you put the right pressures on Jerry yeah, he can bloom. Rick's presence crippled him. All couples have problems and those problems aren't all necessarily Rick's fault or his responsibility to address, but Rick sure didn't do anything to help Jerry's marriage, all he did was cut the man down constantly. Rick had made up his mind that their marriage was doomed, and when Rick makes up his mind about something... well, what the hell can you do against that? Rick may not be wrong about what might have been, but if he could stop resenting Jerry over it and maybe instead work towards making the family's life better with him as part of it, everyone could be much happier.
IIRC he also did this in front of Beth and the kids. Which, in my experience, this is the typical action a scum bag trying to break up a relationship does because it works. Especially after they have an in (in this case the context is different because Rick is Beth's father, and the in is her need for his presence after his absence). In effect it's not very different from that coworker who breaks up your marriage over the course of a year of becoming the shoulder to cry on for your spouse.
I also have to wonder if he blames Summer and to some extent Morty for ruining Beth's life, when really we have to know he feels bad for not being there as she grew up
I also have to wonder if he blames Summer and to some extent Morty for ruining Beth's life, when really we have to know he feels bad for not being there as she grew up
It's hard to tell with him. The problem with Rick is that his behavior is shaped by the fact that he can travel the multiverse on a whim and his entire family is basically interchangable (the current Summer and Beth arent his own, and we dont know how many times he's switched universes before the show started) so his family bonds are screwed up. You cant apply normal human behavior models to him. It simply doesnt exist in real life, since he doesnt fit the profile for psychopaths or sociopaths either.
I think the saddest thing in this episode has to be how Jerry treats Doofus Rick.
It rather highlights how Jerry has changed, at least within the episode.
I think the saddest thing in this episode has to be how Jerry treats Doofus Rick.
It rather highlights how Jerry has changed, at least within the episode.
They were effectively the same thing at that point, and Jerry's response to his sudden power was to become a bully.
Understable because of the situation, but still ugly.
If you put the right pressures on Jerry yeah, he can bloom. Rick's presence crippled him. All couples have problems and those problems aren't all necessarily Rick's fault or his responsibility to address, but Rick sure didn't do anything to help Jerry's marriage, all he did was cut the man down constantly. Rick had made up his mind that their marriage was doomed, and when Rick makes up his mind about something... well, what the hell can you do against that? Rick may not be wrong about what might have been, but if he could stop resenting Jerry over it and maybe instead work towards making the family's life better with him as part of it, everyone could be much happier.
Yeah, thats not going to happen, Rick even spelled it out in the last episode that he blames Jerry for getting Beth pregnant when she was 17.
That's one of the ways Rick is being an asshole - Rick's so focused on what might have been and resenting Jerry for screwing that up, it never occurs to Rick that maybe accepting what's happened could be the first step towards a different future that might not be the exact one he envisioned for his daughter, but is still fulfilling and happy. For one thing, this new path her life took got her two kids that any decent parental figure would say is a plus. Instead of accepting what happened, Rick just bitches about hypothetical missed opportunities and takes it out on Jerry. Again it's not Rick's job to fix their life, but actively damaging it because you're bitter that its not what you wanted is a shitty thing to do.
Also interesting the way he phrases his insult to Jerry:
"She was Rick's daughter, Jerry..."
Saying that in the third person definitely seems fishy for him.
Rick also has to know his manipulative tendencies warped Beth more than her marriage to Jerry. He also loves his grandkids despite hating Jerry, so he has to begrudgingly accept Jerry in some small way has brought him happiness.
Furthermore, when Jerry takes the job with the alien government, he becomes fulfilled for pretty much the first time on the show. Going a long time unemployed can really wear on you -- I've been there. Even though the job turned out to be to the detriment of Earth (and his family), it was a real victory for him.
Honestly, part of the problem with Jerry's depiction is he's supposed to be overly pathetic in a show in which pretty much no one can truly handle the horrible shit Rick drops on them. Even Morty's only to the point where he can handle arguably 50 percent of what Rick does, and he's received the brunt of things. Meanwhile, Jerry had to endure being completely shredded in an air vent, devoured by an alien worm, being used as bait for another horrible creature and being kidnapped naked by a creature who will not be stopped, all in this episode alone. What the hell was he even supposed to do in these situations? Enduring even one of these in real life would probably reduce most of us to a catatonic and/or blubbering mess.
I think I'd put it more towards a mixed or maybe even confused presentation of Jerry in the past that has taken an exceedingly vindictive turn this season. Previously, he was concerned for the kids, tried to bond with them, put in real effort to make things work with Beth and went the extra mile for her (eg the TCBY deer thing), etc etc. But this season, he put his foot down, explained everything to his family, they all sided with Rick, and pretty much froze him out, despite agreeing that Rick was a nightmare. And yet, they all start blaming him for not trying hard enough, or being too shitty a person, even though every time he reaches out to them, he gets rebuffed. I'm willing to take the characters/writers at their word that we're supposed to take Jerry as some kind of apex-patheticness predator, but that doesn't jive with the first couple seasons at all, and barely even this one.
For the record Mortys issue with his dad wasnt that he refused to fight for Beth. Its that he tried to play it both ways. Hanging around the house talking about custody(Ive never been through a divorce but my understanding is that Jerrys conversation with Morty about custody was a little out of bounds?) instead of moving on. We dont see them intract after that but based on him strong arming Rick into giving Jerry an adventure I would guess hos feelings on him have softened.
Summer also made peace with him at the end of the Mad Max episode despite her simpler worldview of worshiping Rick.
Furthermore, when Jerry takes the job with the alien government, he becomes fulfilled for pretty much the first time on the show. Going a long time unemployed can really wear on you -- I've been there. Even though the job turned out to be to the detriment of Earth (and his family), it was a real victory for him.
Honestly, part of the problem with Jerry's depiction is he's supposed to be overly pathetic in a show in which pretty much no one can truly handle the horrible shit Rick drops on them. Even Morty's only to the point where he can handle arguably 50 percent of what Rick does, and he's received the brunt of things. Meanwhile, Jerry had to endure being completely shredded in an air vent, devoured by an alien worm, being used as bait for another horrible creature and being kidnapped naked by a creature who will not be stopped, all in this episode alone. What the hell was he even supposed to do in these situations? Enduring even one of these in real life would probably reduce most of us to a catatonic and/or blubbering mess.
I think I'd put it more towards a mixed or maybe even confused presentation of Jerry in the past that has taken an exceedingly vindictive turn this season. Previously, he was concerned for the kids, tried to bond with them, put in real effort to make things work with Beth and went the extra mile for her (eg the TCBY deer thing), etc etc. But this season, he put his foot down, explained everything to his family, they all sided with Rick, and pretty much froze him out, despite agreeing that Rick was a nightmare. And yet, they all start blaming him for not trying hard enough, or being too shitty a person, even though every time he reaches out to them, he gets rebuffed. I'm willing to take the characters/writers at their word that we're supposed to take Jerry as some kind of apex-patheticness predator, but that doesn't jive with the first couple seasons at all, and barely even this one.
For the record Mortys issue with his dad wasnt that he refused to fight for Beth. Its that he tried to play it both ways. Hanging around the house talking about custody(Ive never been through a divorce but my understanding is that Jerrys conversation with Morty about custody was a little out of bounds?) instead of moving on. We dont see them intract after that but based on him strong arming Rick into giving Jerry an adventure I would guess hos feelings on him have softened.
Summer also made peace with him at the end of the Mad Max episode despite her simpler worldview of worshiping Rick.
He wasn't hanging around the house, he was moving and saying goodbye.
There was definitely a slight smile from Rick at the end of the episode when Jerry declared that he will no longer have pitiful loser as his calling card.
Whether he's genuinely pleased that Jerry has actually grown as a human being during their adventure or if it's some small part of another Rickiavellian plan remains to be seen however.
I think they're going to regret the Class C cybernetic augmentations as a plot device later.
Edit; Thoroughly discussed. Forgot about the body switch.
My problem with Jerry is that Jerry didn't use to be a total sad sack worthless fuck, he was the every man who was way over his head and played the straight foil to the hijinks. He's progressively gotten more and more sad sackish.
I don't think a character arc making him a big player would be useful, but I'd like to see him returned to, "Normal dad with authority who doesn't approve of these wacky hijinks but whoops, he's in over his head" again.
I also have to wonder if he blames Summer and to some extent Morty for ruining Beth's life, when really we have to know he feels bad for not being there as she grew up
It's hard to tell with him. The problem with Rick is that his behavior is shaped by the fact that he can travel the multiverse on a whim and his entire family is basically interchangable (the current Summer and Beth arent his own, and we dont know how many times he's switched universes before the show started) so his family bonds are screwed up. You cant apply normal human behavior models to him. It simply doesnt exist in real life, since he doesnt fit the profile for psychopaths or sociopaths either.
That does kind of create a weirdness. Did Rick just forget his daughter could get pregnant or something?
Not sure but regardless her having summer at 17 and still becoming a horse surgeon is actually super impressive and kind of implies that Jerry stepped up to the plate to either help raise the kids in a very involved way or took the brunt of the financial providing.
Not sure but regardless her having summer at 17 and still becoming a horse surgeon is actually super impressive and kind of implies that Jerry stepped up to the plate to either help raise the kids in a very involved way or took the brunt of the financial providing.
Anyone else bothered that morty doesn't seem to have friends other than rick?
How many episodes would a friend even last?
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Waffles or whateverPreviously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen"Registered Userregular
Not sure if my wife can handle this show at times. She got really upset when the alien kid shot and killed his sister after the immortality field wore off.
Anyone else bothered that morty doesn't seem to have friends other than rick?
Bothered? Maybe a little. Surprised? Not so much. I'd guess that when you regularly get pulled out of school to travel to other worlds and dimensions, experiencing things that you can't talk about with a peer without sounding absolutely insane, it probably makes it a bit difficult to establish a common ground with another middle school kid. I mean, try telling your classmate about the alien sex robot your grandpa bought you, that you impregnated, giving birth to a brutal alien hybrid with a love for dance.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
Not sure if my wife can handle this show at times. She got really upset when the alien kid shot and killed his sister after the immortality field wore off.
I knew that was coming as soon as we saw it happen the first time, but that was still really jarring and dark.
It's implied that he disappeared around the time portrayed in the Shoney's flashback, e.g. when Beth was old enough to remember but not so old that she feels like she had a father figure when she needed him most.
Furthermore, when Jerry takes the job with the alien government, he becomes fulfilled for pretty much the first time on the show. Going a long time unemployed can really wear on you -- I've been there. Even though the job turned out to be to the detriment of Earth (and his family), it was a real victory for him.
Honestly, part of the problem with Jerry's depiction is he's supposed to be overly pathetic in a show in which pretty much no one can truly handle the horrible shit Rick drops on them. Even Morty's only to the point where he can handle arguably 50 percent of what Rick does, and he's received the brunt of things. Meanwhile, Jerry had to endure being completely shredded in an air vent, devoured by an alien worm, being used as bait for another horrible creature and being kidnapped naked by a creature who will not be stopped, all in this episode alone. What the hell was he even supposed to do in these situations? Enduring even one of these in real life would probably reduce most of us to a catatonic and/or blubbering mess.
I think I'd put it more towards a mixed or maybe even confused presentation of Jerry in the past that has taken an exceedingly vindictive turn this season. Previously, he was concerned for the kids, tried to bond with them, put in real effort to make things work with Beth and went the extra mile for her (eg the TCBY deer thing), etc etc. But this season, he put his foot down, explained everything to his family, they all sided with Rick, and pretty much froze him out, despite agreeing that Rick was a nightmare. And yet, they all start blaming him for not trying hard enough, or being too shitty a person, even though every time he reaches out to them, he gets rebuffed. I'm willing to take the characters/writers at their word that we're supposed to take Jerry as some kind of apex-patheticness predator, but that doesn't jive with the first couple seasons at all, and barely even this one.
I don't think Jerry would have lasted long in the Government Job. Even when hes given success (Like the episode when he was put into the simulation world) he finds reason that he does not deserve it and ruins it for himself.
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Honestly, part of the problem with Jerry's depiction is he's supposed to be overly pathetic in a show in which pretty much no one can truly handle the horrible shit Rick drops on them. Even Morty's only to the point where he can handle arguably 50 percent of what Rick does, and he's received the brunt of things. Meanwhile, Jerry had to endure being completely shredded in an air vent, devoured by an alien worm, being used as bait for another horrible creature and being kidnapped naked by a creature who will not be stopped, all in this episode alone. What the hell was he even supposed to do in these situations? Enduring even one of these in real life would probably reduce most of us to a catatonic and/or blubbering mess.
And seriously Beth, how could you look at the hoof collage and not think you need major help? Even Morty was appalled. Morty. Who sees Rick-level insanity on a regular basis.
I think I'd put it more towards a mixed or maybe even confused presentation of Jerry in the past that has taken an exceedingly vindictive turn this season. Previously, he was concerned for the kids, tried to bond with them, put in real effort to make things work with Beth and went the extra mile for her (eg the TCBY deer thing), etc etc. But this season, he put his foot down, explained everything to his family, they all sided with Rick, and pretty much froze him out, despite agreeing that Rick was a nightmare. And yet, they all start blaming him for not trying hard enough, or being too shitty a person, even though every time he reaches out to them, he gets rebuffed. I'm willing to take the characters/writers at their word that we're supposed to take Jerry as some kind of apex-patheticness predator, but that doesn't jive with the first couple seasons at all, and barely even this one.
I again point out that whenever actual danger happens, Jerry collapses like a cheap card table. He never risks anything without backup, literally THE most brave thing he's done in the entire show is bite that alien in the last episode. Rick is a gigantic asshole, but constantly puts forth a massive showing of courage in dangerous situations, which granted, he usually causes in the first place, but still. Is that an unfair standard to live up to? Yes, but this is the Rick and Morty show, not the Jerry and Nobody Show.
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Yeah, thats not going to happen, Rick even spelled it out in the last episode that he blames Jerry for getting Beth pregnant when she was 17.
IIRC he also did this in front of Beth and the kids. Which, in my experience, this is the typical action a scum bag trying to break up a relationship does because it works. Especially after they have an in (in this case the context is different because Rick is Beth's father, and the in is her need for his presence after his absence). In effect it's not very different from that coworker who breaks up your marriage over the course of a year of becoming the shoulder to cry on for your spouse.
It's hard to tell with him. The problem with Rick is that his behavior is shaped by the fact that he can travel the multiverse on a whim and his entire family is basically interchangable (the current Summer and Beth arent his own, and we dont know how many times he's switched universes before the show started) so his family bonds are screwed up. You cant apply normal human behavior models to him. It simply doesnt exist in real life, since he doesnt fit the profile for psychopaths or sociopaths either.
It rather highlights how Jerry has changed, at least within the episode.
There was a Doofus Rick appearance?
Oh derp ( I miss Doofus Rick)
They were effectively the same thing at that point, and Jerry's response to his sudden power was to become a bully.
Understable because of the situation, but still ugly.
That's one of the ways Rick is being an asshole - Rick's so focused on what might have been and resenting Jerry for screwing that up, it never occurs to Rick that maybe accepting what's happened could be the first step towards a different future that might not be the exact one he envisioned for his daughter, but is still fulfilling and happy. For one thing, this new path her life took got her two kids that any decent parental figure would say is a plus. Instead of accepting what happened, Rick just bitches about hypothetical missed opportunities and takes it out on Jerry. Again it's not Rick's job to fix their life, but actively damaging it because you're bitter that its not what you wanted is a shitty thing to do.
"She was Rick's daughter, Jerry..."
Saying that in the third person definitely seems fishy for him.
Rick also has to know his manipulative tendencies warped Beth more than her marriage to Jerry. He also loves his grandkids despite hating Jerry, so he has to begrudgingly accept Jerry in some small way has brought him happiness.
20ccs small
For the record Mortys issue with his dad wasnt that he refused to fight for Beth. Its that he tried to play it both ways. Hanging around the house talking about custody(Ive never been through a divorce but my understanding is that Jerrys conversation with Morty about custody was a little out of bounds?) instead of moving on. We dont see them intract after that but based on him strong arming Rick into giving Jerry an adventure I would guess hos feelings on him have softened.
Summer also made peace with him at the end of the Mad Max episode despite her simpler worldview of worshiping Rick.
40ccs, since his first comment referenced just Summer
He wasn't hanging around the house, he was moving and saying goodbye.
Whether he's genuinely pleased that Jerry has actually grown as a human being during their adventure or if it's some small part of another Rickiavellian plan remains to be seen however.
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Edit; Thoroughly discussed. Forgot about the body switch.
My problem with Jerry is that Jerry didn't use to be a total sad sack worthless fuck, he was the every man who was way over his head and played the straight foil to the hijinks. He's progressively gotten more and more sad sackish.
I don't think a character arc making him a big player would be useful, but I'd like to see him returned to, "Normal dad with authority who doesn't approve of these wacky hijinks but whoops, he's in over his head" again.
That does kind of create a weirdness. Did Rick just forget his daughter could get pregnant or something?
Not sure but regardless her having summer at 17 and still becoming a horse surgeon is actually super impressive and kind of implies that Jerry stepped up to the plate to either help raise the kids in a very involved way or took the brunt of the financial providing.
Or Rick switched Beth's and wiped their memories.
How many episodes would a friend even last?
Bothered? Maybe a little. Surprised? Not so much. I'd guess that when you regularly get pulled out of school to travel to other worlds and dimensions, experiencing things that you can't talk about with a peer without sounding absolutely insane, it probably makes it a bit difficult to establish a common ground with another middle school kid. I mean, try telling your classmate about the alien sex robot your grandpa bought you, that you impregnated, giving birth to a brutal alien hybrid with a love for dance.
I knew that was coming as soon as we saw it happen the first time, but that was still really jarring and dark.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
It's implied that he disappeared around the time portrayed in the Shoney's flashback, e.g. when Beth was old enough to remember but not so old that she feels like she had a father figure when she needed him most.
I don't think Jerry would have lasted long in the Government Job. Even when hes given success (Like the episode when he was put into the simulation world) he finds reason that he does not deserve it and ruins it for himself.