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Dragon Age Thread - Qunari with Fancy Hats

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Posts

  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    All demons are self serving mustache twirling villians. Conjure one up to make a sandwhich for you and they'll burn down a whole village while possessing your dog.

    Yeah but it'll be a really good sandwich.
    Blackjack wrote: »
    DA:O is slightly less than a year and Awakening is a few months after that, so who knows what she is now in Inquisition.
    She's dead for real. She died in one of the books

    Evangeline seems like someone who might show up in DA3.

    SoundsPlush on
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  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    I wouldn't say Anders' anger is misplaced.

    He has plenty of reasons to hate the templars and chantry, as many mages do. His methods are questionable but I would say he has the motivation.

    Dr. Chaos on
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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    The real reason why anders went off the deep end was that he lost his cat :3

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  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    I wouldn't say Anders' anger is misplaced.

    He has plenty of reasons to hate the templars and chantry, as many mages do. His methods are questionable but I would say he has the motivation.

    I was just about to say that there's nothing misplaced in blaming the Chantry.

    That said, Anders didn't pick an elegant way of remedying the problem.

    Dr. ChaosOrcaPreciousBodilyFluids
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    I wouldn't say Anders' anger is misplaced.

    He has plenty of reasons to hate the templars and chantry, as many mages do. His methods are questionable but I would say he has the motivation.

    I was just about to say that there's nothing misplaced in blaming the Chantry.

    That said, Anders didn't pick an elegant way of remedying the problem.
    Yeah, I'm all for starting a mage rebellion but I'm not sure bombing an old lady in a church was a good way to begin.

    Dr. Chaos on
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  • eahenryiieahenryii Registered User regular
    Was there ever an infographic done on the choices that people made in DA? Kind of like the one that was done for Mass Effect that proved that nobody liked Kaidan?

  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
  • eahenryiieahenryii Registered User regular
    Am I the only one around here who thinks mass murder using blood magic proves the chantry was wrong?!

  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    eahenryii wrote: »
    Am I the only one around here who thinks mass murder using blood magic proves the chantry was wrong?!

    The Chantry's stance of suppressing/oppressing/lobotomizing mages as a precaution against them lashing out sort of encourages lashing out, so it's kind of a 'self-fulfilling prophecy'-sort of situation. It was never going to end well.

    We'll see how it ends in DA3, maybe. Knowing Bioware, I can probably summarize most of the game thus:
    -All Templars are complete cockbags in dire need of a shanking.
    -All Mages are idiots with zero faculties one would expect from adults.
    -Chantry remains a bunch of hypocritical wankers who only make things worse for everybody.
    -The Qunari are creepy ant-colony zealot fascists.
    -The Tevinters drop by every now and then for some moustache-twirling dialogue.
    -As the protagonist, you end up killing members of all aforementioned groups.
    -Varric is still great.

    Rhan9 on
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  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    eahenryii wrote: »
    Am I the only one around here who thinks mass murder using blood magic proves the chantry was wrong?!
    Blood magic can be used for acts of heroism or villiany just like any other school.

    To my knowledge, theres no real downside to using it if you're a good person (as opposed to a bad one who could use it for all sorts of nasty things) aside from bleeding hurts like hell. It's not like Star War's dark side, you don't become evil just by using it.

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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    To my knowledge, theres no real downside to using it if you're a good person aside from bleeding hurts like hell. It's not like Star War's dark side, you don't become evil just by using it.

    The problem is that people using it might realize that bleeding hurts like hell, but using other people's blood doesn't hurt at all and is just as effective. Plus there's a lot more of it available.

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  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    Aistan wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    To my knowledge, theres no real downside to using it if you're a good person aside from bleeding hurts like hell. It's not like Star War's dark side, you don't become evil just by using it.

    The problem is that people using it might realize that bleeding hurts like hell, but using other people's blood doesn't hurt at all and is just as effective. Plus there's a lot more of it available.

    This rationale works equally well for soldiers.

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Elendil wrote: »
    Awakening anders is basically The Dude

    Shadowen on
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Aistan wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    To my knowledge, theres no real downside to using it if you're a good person aside from bleeding hurts like hell. It's not like Star War's dark side, you don't become evil just by using it.

    The problem is that people using it might realize that bleeding hurts like hell, but using other people's blood doesn't hurt at all and is just as effective. Plus there's a lot more of it available.
    People that are evil, yes.

    If the mage was running low and a fellow soldier consented to it (under the condition that it wouldn't kill them), I see no problem with blood sacrifice.

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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    To my knowledge, theres no real downside to using it if you're a good person aside from bleeding hurts like hell. It's not like Star War's dark side, you don't become evil just by using it.

    The problem is that people using it might realize that bleeding hurts like hell, but using other people's blood doesn't hurt at all and is just as effective. Plus there's a lot more of it available.

    This rationale works equally well for soldiers.

    Not... really?

    A soldier can use a weapon to kill someone, but they can be disarmed or beaten by larger numbers or other soldiers. Their strength comes from their physical ability and their training. A soldier killing a dozen unarmed people doesn't become any stronger than they were beforehand.

    A blood mage can take the blood of those dozen people and use that power to kill hundreds more.

    Aistan on
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Aistan wrote: »
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    To my knowledge, theres no real downside to using it if you're a good person aside from bleeding hurts like hell. It's not like Star War's dark side, you don't become evil just by using it.

    The problem is that people using it might realize that bleeding hurts like hell, but using other people's blood doesn't hurt at all and is just as effective. Plus there's a lot more of it available.

    This rationale works equally well for soldiers.

    Not... really?

    A soldier can use a weapon to kill someone, but they can be disarmed or beaten by larger numbers or other soldiers. Their strength comes from their physical ability and their training. A soldier killing a dozen unarmed people doesn't become any stronger than they were beforehand.

    A blood mage can use the blood of those dozen people and use that power to kill hundreds more.
    Which sounds extremely valuable.

    At war, using the blood of a dozen people to kill hundreds to save thousands doesn't sound so bad to me.

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  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    I feel like I'm kinda strange in that I am pro-Circle, pro-Blood Magic. I think a Circle-like system is neccisary because a mage could stub their toe at 3am and suddenly being a mass murdering, city destroying demon because the demon was smart enough to trick the mage at 3am to let it possess him to get rid of the pain.

    Meanwhile, Blood Magic is simply power like any other, and if you either are only using your own or other's blood that is freely shared, there's nothing really evil about it (see that one ritual that one Bloodmage wanted to use to save that kid in DA:O). Sure, crazy, sicko, pyschos are going to lean toward it, but that's why you need a Circle-like environment to quickly identify and lobotomize those people. Meanwhile, someone like Wynne would be able to responsibly use blood magic to the benefit of those around her.

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  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    I feel like I'm kinda strange in that I am pro-Circle, pro-Blood Magic. I think a Circle-like system is neccisary because a mage could stub their toe at 3am and suddenly being a mass murdering, city destroying demon because the demon was smart enough to trick the mage at 3am to let it possess him to get rid of the pain.

    Meanwhile, Blood Magic is simply power like any other, and if you either are only using your own or other's blood that is freely shared, there's nothing really evil about it (see that one ritual that one Bloodmage wanted to use to save that kid in DA:O). Sure, crazy, sicko, pyschos are going to lean toward it, but that's why you need a Circle-like environment to quickly identify and lobotomize those people. Meanwhile, someone like Wynne would be able to responsibly use blood magic to the benefit of those around her.
    The Circle is a step too far.

    There should be laws and certain restrictions on magic and when it's appropriate to use certain schools but mages should not be held prisoners in towers. They deserve their own homes and families just like anyone else.

    Anybody could be dangerous, thats life. Everything is a risk, you punish people for commiting crimes not just having the capacity to one day commit them.

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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Unrestricted magic is bad. The most conceptually horrible spell in the games isn't even a blood magic spell, it's spirit's good 'ol virulent walking bomb.

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  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    i'm pro-circle, but anti-templar

    i think the anti-templar probably outweighs the other thing because i only ever did one playthrough on that side

  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    The circle can't exist as most people know it without the templars though.

    If I was ever able to wipe out the templars, I would leave them around as places of learning. They do a valuable service.

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  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    I feel like I'm kinda strange in that I am pro-Circle, pro-Blood Magic. I think a Circle-like system is neccisary because a mage could stub their toe at 3am and suddenly being a mass murdering, city destroying demon because the demon was smart enough to trick the mage at 3am to let it possess him to get rid of the pain.

    Meanwhile, Blood Magic is simply power like any other, and if you either are only using your own or other's blood that is freely shared, there's nothing really evil about it (see that one ritual that one Bloodmage wanted to use to save that kid in DA:O). Sure, crazy, sicko, pyschos are going to lean toward it, but that's why you need a Circle-like environment to quickly identify and lobotomize those people. Meanwhile, someone like Wynne would be able to responsibly use blood magic to the benefit of those around her.
    The Circle is a step too far.

    There should be laws and certain restrictions on magic and when it's appropriate to use certain schools but mages should not be held prisoners in towers. They deserve their own homes and families just like anyone else.

    Anybody could be dangerous, thats life. Everything is a risk, you punish people for commiting crimes not just having the capacity to one day commit them.

    Unfortunately, that standpoint is not reasonable in an undeveloped society like Thedas is. In modern times, its easy to say this because we have so many ways to monitor such individuals. However, in the case of the Dragon Age Universe, without some kind of limiting factor, such people will be gone without a trace, and you'd never find them until you stumble across a city being destroyed by the undead armies marching out of the local keep.

    I think the difference here is that you look at magic as a weapon, something that an individual can choose or choose not to use in a responsible way. I don't see it as just that, though. Its also similar to a disease, where the magic can go out of control and destroy large swaths of people without the desire of the person who has it for that to be the case. You look at the Circles as prisons for people who have not committed crimes. I look at the Circles and see a quarantine for people who may have the most deadly disease on the world.

    I'd also like to point out that Circles are NOT prisons. Wynne, for example, seems perfectly able to go wherever she wants without a Templar escort. I think its rather telling that when Wynne tells Irvine she's going with The Warden, he says she always was one for adventures rather than the Circle. That indicates that her decision to go with the Warden wasn't the first time she said "Adventure Time!" and left.

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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Ideally The Circle would be more "Professor Xavier's School for the Gifted" and less "Mage Prison", but I don't know how feasible that is in a medieval society plagued by war, demonic zombie invasion, and with a Magical Autocracy right next door.

  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Unfortunately, that standpoint is not reasonable in an undeveloped society like Thedas is. In modern times, its easy to say this because we have so many ways to monitor such individuals. However, in the case of the Dragon Age Universe, without some kind of limiting factor, such people will be gone without a trace, and you'd never find them until you stumble across a city being destroyed by the undead armies marching out of the local keep.
    I understand where you're coming from but for me it's about principle. My heart won't let me go with cold hard logic on this one.

    And the people responsible for that would be or were punished (assuming you're talking about Redcliffe). The earl's son should have been taught by a trained professional (not an idiot like Jowan who is still an apprentice) but he should not be living in a tower. Taking lessons there perhaps? Yes but not torn from his family.

    I advocate law and order, not playing big brother like the chantry and templars do.
    I think the difference here is that you look at magic as a weapon, something that an individual can choose or choose not to use in a responsible way. I don't see it as just that, though. Its also similar to a disease, where the magic can go out of control and destroy large swaths of people without the desire of the person who has it for that to be the case. You look at the Circles as prisons for people who have not committed crimes. I look at the Circles and see a quarantine for people who may have the most deadly disease on the world.
    Magic is a choice, you use it, it doesn't force you to use it. Most of the time, demons can't possess mages unless they consent. Quite a few consent becuase they're terrified of the templars. If we lived in a world where they were not treated likes slaves, people would not resort to those sorts of options as often as we see in the dragon age.

    Magic is a weapon, it can also heal and save countless lives. It's a natural part of this world, not a sickness. Locking magic away is like locking up someone's right arm becuase it can pick up a sword.

    The Circle in it's current condition is a prison. Mages like Wynne have spent many decades in the circle and earned a high place in it, she's not a good example of the freedom most mages possess which is next to none.

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  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    Rhan9 wrote: »
    Aistan wrote: »
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    To my knowledge, theres no real downside to using it if you're a good person aside from bleeding hurts like hell. It's not like Star War's dark side, you don't become evil just by using it.

    The problem is that people using it might realize that bleeding hurts like hell, but using other people's blood doesn't hurt at all and is just as effective. Plus there's a lot more of it available.

    This rationale works equally well for soldiers.

    Not... really?

    A soldier can use a weapon to kill someone, but they can be disarmed or beaten by larger numbers or other soldiers. Their strength comes from their physical ability and their training. A soldier killing a dozen unarmed people doesn't become any stronger than they were beforehand.

    A blood mage can use the blood of those dozen people and use that power to kill hundreds more.
    Which sounds extremely valuable.

    At war, using the blood of a dozen people to kill hundreds to save thousands doesn't sound so bad to me.

    that is a very dangerously slippy slope to be on @Dr. Chaos.
    This topic of Blood Magic can be likened to the way magic works in Dark Sun.

    Magic in dark sun takes the essence of living things to do its works. You could throw a fire ball, but the 10ft circle of grass around you would be ashed for years to come as if it was plowed and salted.
    Of course, you could spend more time and difficulty to only pull a little bit of essence from everything and it all still remains intact, but that is way harder and less bang for the buck.

    The topic of magic and how to use it responsibly is a hard thing to work with, because well... we don't have it IRL.

    I'd think that something Circle-esque is the right idea, only in that it should be a place of knowledge and learning and gathering. Locking up mages leads to the ass-hatery that has been a stable backdrop in Dragon Age, but I don't think it is un-wise or constraining to keep monthly or weekly tabs on someone with the ability to enthrall a village or make an undead army with their mind. The Templars should only be a policing force. You bring these guys in to deal with a rogue mage or when they fuck up. They don't loom over them with the knife pressed to the back of their neck 24/7.

    Then again... how do you control a child or a teenager with the sudden ability to throw mind bullets and you can't stop them from doing so?

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  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    I'd think that something Circle-esque is the right idea, only in that it should be a place of knowledge and learning and gathering. Locking up mages leads to the ass-hatery that has been a stable backdrop in Dragon Age, but I don't think it is un-wise or constraining to keep monthly or weekly tabs on someone with the ability to enthrall a village or make an undead army with their mind. The Templars should only be a policing force. You bring these guys in to deal with a rogue mage or when they fuck up. They don't loom over them with the knife pressed to the back of their neck 24/7.
    Agreed.

    There should be checks and balances that mages have to live with that ordinary people don't, certain laws that state when or when not certain schools of magic are appropriate and disobeying them involving severe punishment but they deserve more freedom than they currently get. This isn't how human beings live.

    Also about blood magic, best case scenario, you never want to use it officially but there are times when I could see it doing more than other schools to make a difference in great crisis.

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  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Talking about blood magic, if they're letting specializations effect the actual RP decisions, hopefully you'll finally be able to use blood magic to do some of that mind control stuff, rather than just as a 2nd mana pool

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  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    Spoit wrote: »
    Talking about blood magic, if they're letting specializations effect the actual RP decisions, hopefully you'll finally be able to use blood magic to do some of that mind control stuff, rather than just as a 2nd mana pool
    If there is an option to force a templar to punch themselves in the face and then a dialogue option for "stop hitting yourself", I will love Bioware forever.

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  • ShenShen Registered User regular
    In a busted-ass medieval society where every mage is a potential danger to themselves and others, I'm for the Circle. Whether you get taken over by a demon isn't even a matter of being good or bad, it's also strength of will, temperament, patience. I don't really care what flavour your superpowers take, but if you elect to study the one that mandates a Linkin Park and Evanescence soundtrack I'm gonna look at you askance.

    No but seriously, blood magic lets you take over people's minds and summon shades.

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  • eahenryiieahenryii Registered User regular
    i only played DA for the first time a couple of months ago, but i feel like the Anders ending of 2 must've spawned a lot of conversation. that's why i was curious about the infographic. i was curious what percentage of people
    let anders live.

    btw, are we still spoilering stuff for DA2?

  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    Lots of speculation everywhere!

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  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    eahenryii wrote: »
    i only played DA for the first time a couple of months ago, but i feel like the Anders ending of 2 must've spawned a lot of conversation. that's why i was curious about the infographic. i was curious what percentage of people
    let anders live.

    btw, are we still spoilering stuff for DA2?
    I think me and about two other people let Anders live.

    Seems like everybody else cut him up good.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    There's ample evidence in both games that the simple act of using blood magic, regardless of the mage's intent or disposition, weakens the Veil. Leading to demons having an easier time crossing over and either possessing a Mage or a corpse or whatever.

    Even Hawke's father, who was forced to use blood magic, suffered a weakened Veil where he settled.

    Blood magic is just inherently evil. There is a reason demons are more than happy to teach mages.

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  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    Blood magic is just inherently evil. There is a reason demons are more than happy to teach mages.
    Blood magic isn't inherently evil, but the temptation to do evil when you have the power to bend others to your will must be insidious.

    Blood magic is a weapon in a world full of idiots. But man being able to mind control people in conversation a la Vampire: The Colons would be awesome. Mental murderknife hooooo!

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  • durandal4532durandal4532 Registered User regular
    I'm pro-blood magic because I'm pretty certain only NPCs turn into demons.

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  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    There's ample evidence in both games that the simple act of using blood magic, regardless of the mage's intent or disposition, weakens the Veil. Leading to demons having an easier time crossing over and either possessing a Mage or a corpse or whatever.
    I know blood magic can be used to open the veil but I don't remember anything about simply using it doing that.

    The only thing I've read in my replay of Origins so far concerning blood magic is that it can be used for weakening the veil and demon summoning, nothing explicitly stating it diminishes the veil just by being in use just yet.
    Even Hawke's father, who was forced to use blood magic, suffered a weakened Veil where he settled.
    Haven't played that yet.
    Blood magic is just inherently evil. There is a reason demons are more than happy to teach mages.
    Demons are happy to teach it becuase it's a forbidden art, it's not easy for humans to learn in the mortal world as a result which makes it a valuable asset for demons. It's one of their biggest bargaining tools.

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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Pssssht, like Gaider has any authori-tah over DA lore.

    The "Hawke's blood Mage dad broke the Veil" thing is anectdotal from me, but it's basically:

    Hawke's dad was a good Mage.
    Hawke's dad was forced to use blood magic.
    Hawke's dad moved to the outskirts of Lothering.
    Blood magic is the easiest (though not only) way to tear the Veil, which takes years, if ever, to repair.
    A torn/weakened Veil allows spirits to leak through and possess people, corpses, and animals.
    The outskirts of Lothering had issues with the Veil being weak, leading to large amounts of spirit possessed animals.

    David Gaider is obviously word of God, but the issue is that in each case of a torn Veil in all three games had one thing in common: Blood magic.

    So he may have intended for blood magic to just be a tool, but the story isn't presented that way. No matter the intentions of all in game NPC's, anyone who used blood magic suffered disastrous results

    Except the PC.

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  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Playin' through DA2 for the third time in forever and for some reason I'm really diggin' the combat mechanics this time around. They felt pretty meh the first two times.


    Now I got Fenris and Carver both rockin' two-handed swords and it's just awesome watchin' them both scyth, whirlwind, and mighty blow the shit out of dudes. Best tag team ever.

    Then Hawke just cleans up with Fist of the Maker stagger combo's.

    RT800 on
  • Dr. ChaosDr. Chaos Post nuclear nuisance Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    So are the dragon age books (and comic books if there are any, I think theres like one atleast) any good?

    I heard one of them claims that Allistar
    is half elf.

    Scandalous.

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  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Dr. Chaos wrote: »
    So are the dragon age books (and comic books if there are any, I think theres like one atleast) any good?

    I heard one of them claims that Allistar
    is half elf.

    Scandalous.

    I haven't read any so don't know if that's true, but
    nobles boning elves isn't unheard of, that's kind of the entire premise of the City Elf origin.

    Also there are no half-elves in Dragon Age. A child born from a human and an elf is a human. That's partially why it's so frowned upon by elves, it could literally breed them to extinction.

This discussion has been closed.