CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Yeah people always talk about mages are basically the WMDs of Dragon Age and so storing them in the towers is the best thing for them.
Except... it's like saying you have a substance that becomes unstable if you heat it and so the best place to store is next to a bonfire.
If Mage's negative feelings are causing abominations, how about we try to make sure mages are happy and stuff? Maybe something like mandatory therapy instead of mandatory imprisonment?
Yeah people always talk about mages are basically the WMDs of Dragon Age and so storing them in the towers is the best thing for them.
Except... it's like saying you have a substance that becomes unstable if you heat it and so the best place to store is next to a bonfire.
If Mage's negative feelings are causing abominations, how about we try to make sure mages are happy and stuff? Maybe something like mandatory therapy instead of mandatory imprisonment?
That would be hard.
It's much easier to do something quick and dirty and do some hand-waving and say "for the greater good" a lot (practice doing this in a mirror if you can't keep a straight face you ruin the effect!)
Sarcasm aside, I think the circle "solution" is a problem chasing a solution, and I think it's intentional.
The circles are designed to fail. When they fail the chantry is right there to wipe out that circle, and the mages are all conveniently gathered together to be eliminated.
Also it's amusing that people can see that the fade is inspired by other stuff (like the warp) but somehow fail to see the blindingly obvious historical reference at work with the circles.
The circles are designed to fail. When they fail the chantry is right there to wipe out that circle, and the mages are all conveniently gathered together to be eliminated.
I think you've got part of it.
The circles are designed to fail, but look like the results of the failures are the reason the circles need to exist. As a result, the Chantry and the Templars are able to use the circles as an inexhaustible way to justify their own necessity/existence.
The Dalish definitely don't have a demon-free society. We know of at least one clan that was completely wiped out due to demonic possession.
Okay, so Hawke murders them all, but Merrill or Marethari would have wiped them out if Hawke wasn't around. None of them were ready to tackle a Pride Demon.
The Dalish definitely don't have a demon-free society. We know of at least one clan that was completely wiped out due to demonic possession.
Okay, so Hawke murders them all, but Merrill or Marethari would have wiped them out if Hawke wasn't around. None of them were ready to tackle a Pride Demon.
Breaking this down:
Merrill was going to make some sort of a trade with the demon. Does that end with her possessed? MAYBE, it's certainly possible she could escape that through careful dealings. Which would be terribly irresponsible if she hadn't designated an extremely competent magic murder team to end her if she failed. While it's quite fair to say this is a BAD decision, you can't exactly call it a rash one considering she waited what... four years or so to try it?
Vs the Keeper who got deliberately possessed before Hawke's team even showed up with no contingency plan other than "hope these guys I know very little about can deal with it." Clearly Merrill is the dumb one here. *rolls eyes*
And then the dumb elves show up and be dumb. It would have been entirely reasonable to redefine the terms of Merrill's banishment (so that she was ACTUALLY banished and couldn't keep visiting like you do all game) based on what happened. Killing someone that your leader DIED TO PROTECT is ridiculous.
The Dalish definitely don't have a demon-free society. We know of at least one clan that was completely wiped out due to demonic possession.
Okay, so Hawke murders them all, but Merrill or Marethari would have wiped them out if Hawke wasn't around. None of them were ready to tackle a Pride Demon.
Breaking this down:
Merrill was going to make some sort of a trade with the demon. Does that end with her possessed? MAYBE, it's certainly possible she could escape that through careful dealings. Which would be terribly irresponsible if she hadn't designated an extremely competent magic murder team to end her if she failed. While it's quite fair to say this is a BAD decision, you can't exactly call it a rash one considering she waited what... four years or so to try it?
Vs the Keeper who got deliberately possessed before Hawke's team even showed up with no contingency plan other than "hope these guys I know very little about can deal with it." Clearly Merrill is the dumb one here. *rolls eyes*
And then the dumb elves show up and be dumb. It would have been entirely reasonable to redefine the terms of Merrill's banishment (so that she was ACTUALLY banished and couldn't keep visiting like you do all game) based on what happened. Killing someone that your leader DIED TO PROTECT is ridiculous.
Except Marethari kept the entire thing secret from the clan until Hawke potentially blurts it out. Due to practicing blood magic, Merrill was ostracized and hated as a witch and pariah among her clan, on top of the fact that she was obsessed with a cursed object that corrupted two of her own people (though one of them potentially became the Warden to escape the evil taint). The clan knew of this, and spited her because of it; they knew nothing about the demon at the mountain, and Marethari being possessed by it. When they find Marethari dead and the only explanation being that "she let herself be possessed to save Merrill", their bitter confusion turns into rage as they realize that Merrill's involvement indirectly condemned their leader, or so they believed.
Whereas if Hawke claims responsibility for killing Marethari, they act puzzled but understand he/she is clearly lying to protect Merrill, but let the group pass under the pretense of permanent exile.
The Dalish definitely don't have a demon-free society. We know of at least one clan that was completely wiped out due to demonic possession.
Okay, so Hawke murders them all, but Merrill or Marethari would have wiped them out if Hawke wasn't around. None of them were ready to tackle a Pride Demon.
Well,
firstly, you only have to wipe them out if you're a poor diplomat. Secondly, Merrill (or even her keeper) being an exceptional idiot doesn't prove much of a problem in the Dalish. Thirdly, I didn't say demon-free, but from what little we've seen of them, it appears they neither have a pressing issue with abominations savaging their limited numbers (or presumably they would have harsher measures in place to preserve their waning society a little longer) and they live peaceably alongside non-mages—in sage-like leadership roles, no less.
Point being the options aren't only mages enslaving muggles, muggles enslaving mages, or demons murdering everyone and oh well life. From the looks of it, Solas is going to be further evidence along these lines, but who knows, maybe we'll get a little Kirkwall going and Solas will turn out to be the possessed demon archfiend behind the entire rift.
Leliana's Song and Witch Hunt are worth picking up if you like DA:O.
I'd say these are both forgettable. Leliana's Song is a two-hour retelling of something Leliana summarizes in a couple minutes (although I recall thinking the two stories didn't line up, but I can't remember why), and Witch Hunt is all chase with no payoff.
You're not mistaken. There's some inconsistencies between what Leliana says in Origins and her DLC. It's not too bad though.
But you are right that what happens can more or less be summed up in the few lines on Origins. That said, it's still not too bad of a DLC.
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Everyone brings up Tevinter as an example of mages being relatively uncontrolled and not killing everyone, but Tevinter is rife with slavery and the worst excesses of the falling Roman Empire so...I guess what I'm saying is we don't have an example of a society that both has free mages and is a place you'd actually want to live.
Again, the Dalish?
Like how in Origins, the Dalish Mage used blood magic to turn hundreds of humans into werewolves that caused thousands of deaths.
Or how in DA2 when a Dalish Mage tried to control a Pride demon and failed?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Everyone brings up Tevinter as an example of mages being relatively uncontrolled and not killing everyone, but Tevinter is rife with slavery and the worst excesses of the falling Roman Empire so...I guess what I'm saying is we don't have an example of a society that both has free mages and is a place you'd actually want to live.
Again, the Dalish?
Like how in Origins, the Dalish Mage used blood magic to turn hundreds of humans into werewolves that caused thousands of deaths.
Or how in DA2 when a Dalish Mage tried to control a Pride demon and failed?
That's kind of a point against your argument, I think. Yeah, he used blood magic to cast a powerful curse (on a bunch of cunts who actually deserved it, though not their descendents...) but he didn't become an abomination to do it. Even at max pain and turmoil, and delving into some serious dark mojo, he didn't pull a Kirkwall.
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+1
AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
Mages are an abomination and a portal from which the fade can leak into the world. That portal must be closed. By my trusty murder knife.
On that note, hopefully you can stick it in your companions.
chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
edited July 2014
Yeah, any time someone says "demons aren't that big a deal, really", the Dragon Age part of my brain gets deeper into Inquisition territory. It started at Amberley Vail, passed early Eisenhorn some time ago, and with this latest set of arguments, I'm nearing on Torquemada Coteaz.
I think by the time the game launches, my only dialog tree options will be "Innocence proves nothing", "Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood." and (Light them on fire).
Mages are an abomination and a portal from which the fade can leak into the world. That portal must be closed. By my trusty murder knife.
On that note, hopefully you can stick it in your companions.
Oh my...
Make no mistake about my intentions on my canon run. I fully intend to murder about half the party. All mages and the spirit inhabiting the human body.
Yet still caused thousands of deaths, so blood magic is cool?
Exactly how many examples do we have where people don't die because of a blood Mage?
I believe the answer is zero.
The werewolf thing isn't great (though since they only seemed to be hunting the one Dalish clan recently and you don't hear about werewolves from anyone else, thousands sounds dubious).
Still this strikes me as likely sloppy writing rather than intent (DA2 especially). Blood mages make good villains so they include them as foes often. Given what we know of Dalish society and how the Keeper-Apprentice system seems to be universal, it's hard to believe they have problems nearly as frequently as the Circle (or as the protagonist encounters), otherwise they'd be worried less about quickening and slowly receding from the world in true magical elf style than demons slaughtering entire clans.
The thing is, they ignore the part that makes blood mages interesting antagonists: their ability to do mind control and stuff. Instead they're just portrayed as abominations that cut themselves.
I will give you that his voice acting was pretty good, but I...kinda forgot what he actually did
JADE EMPIRE SPOILERS
Trained the protagonist from birth to be an unknowing weapon against his brother, the Emperor. Secretly guided them along the path to kill the Emperor and Li's other rivals, and then he kills the protagonist via a flaw he deliberately trained into their style that only he knows about.. After that, he assumes a pseudo godhood via a dying dragon and plans to rule the Jade Empire forever. Admittedly, you do defeat him, but he still wins for a while.
Plus he's voiced by Pontius Pilate from Jesus Christ Superstar, and that's awesome.
But the Circle solution drives mages to desperation because it's shitty and there's no institutional pressure to make it less shitty. Some guy says "Let's give everybody a lobotomy!" and the MODERATE response is "No, we're not going to do that right now, as you were." Instead of the much more reasonable "you are fired forever."
No, it really doesn't. Dragon Age 2 is not representative of the situation in Thedas at large. The Rite of Annulment has been called 17 times over 700 years. Abominations aren't popping up every five seconds. Normally, things are stable. If anything, the current situation is a consequence of loosening controls too much.
And before we try to treat the Dalish as some kind of proof that a magical abomination free existence is possible, lets remind ourselves that Dalish abominations do happen. The Dalish themselves freely admit it.
Of course this is all tangential to the point. Even if mages WERE completely possession free, heavily monitoring them and regulating them with the Circle is still the only sane option. Their capacity for mind control makes them far too dangerous to be let loose in society at large. A reminder that mind control is so prolific in Tevinter politics that Adralla's development of protective methods against mind control led to her having to flee the country.
Everyone brings up Tevinter as an example of mages being relatively uncontrolled and not killing everyone, but Tevinter is rife with slavery and the worst excesses of the falling Roman Empire so...I guess what I'm saying is we don't have an example of a society that both has free mages and is a place you'd actually want to live.
Again, the Dalish?
Like how in Origins, the Dalish Mage used blood magic to turn hundreds of humans into werewolves that caused thousands of deaths.
Or how in DA2 when a Dalish Mage tried to control a Pride demon and failed?
That's kind of a point against your argument, I think. Yeah, he used blood magic to cast a powerful curse (on a bunch of cunts who actually deserved it, though not their descendents...) but he didn't become an abomination to do it. Even at max pain and turmoil, and delving into some serious dark mojo, he didn't pull a Kirkwall.
Yes clearly because he didn't become an abomination to do it, that somehow mitigates the extensive dangers demonstrated by free mages in this case. They are innately weaponized beings who's powers leave little evidence of their involvement. Let loose into society at large, they would be untouchable as they are in Tevinter.
If anything it shows us how easily the Dalish mageocracy would become like Tevinter if they had the numbers for it.
I didn't say demon-free, but from what little we've seen of them, it appears they neither have a pressing issue with abominations savaging their limited numbers (or presumably they would have harsher measures in place to preserve their waning society a little longer) and they live peaceably alongside non-mages—in sage-like leadership roles, no less.
"Old world elves withdrawing from the world in lieu of man," "abominations murdering entire clans," and "Dalish mages afforded freedom and leadership" are not narratives that make sense together.
Of course this is all tangential to the point. Even if mages WERE completely possession free, heavily monitoring them and regulating them with the Circle is still the only sane option. Their capacity for mind control makes them far too dangerous to be let loose in society at large. A reminder that mind control is so prolific in Tevinter politics that Adralla's development of protective methods against mind control led to her having to flee the country.
A zealot's position. If mages weren't able to be possessed and were treated humanely, the slim minority that tried to use blood magic to control others would be a pretty poor reason for universally shackling them (not to mention they'd likely be defended against by other mages).
Given that our party in DA3 is going to include a Fade-scholar apostate and a blood magic-wielding attempted lightsider, I expect we'll see much more of this issue.
No...no it wouldn't? You're letting forth a deadly weapon into society that leaves no evidence and only serves to accelerate the rise of a new mageocracy. Mages, fundamentally, are equipped to be naturally gifted at controlling populaces. They wield more power, and it comes in both subtle and overt varieties. Mind control is the straw that breaks the camel's back. You cannot regulate such a thing if mages are free to go wherever they please. Even if you could prove that the Bann's policy shift indicated magical interference, how would you pin it on any one of the multiple mages in the city?
It is simply too easy to hide your crime and gather more power. The fact that it only NEEDS to be a slim minority to have extremely ill effects is the problem. Do you think the mages of Tevinter are a majority? They are not.
It's only ever been a choice between two outcomes: Oppress or be oppressed.
Given that the Litany of Adralla interrupts a mind control spell and does nothing after they've already been affected, either mind control spells aren't undetectable or a few magisters were really worried about everyone going around repeating a litany all day every day.
Of course then there's Idunna, so one or the other is sloppy writing.
I'm reading Taky's new book, and the Dalish mage is, so far, in no danger of going abomination. Everyone's terrified of him, but it's because he can melt their faces, not because he could be a demon conduit.
I bet city elves are a much bigger demon threat... their life sucks.
Well, I wouldn't want to live anywhere in Dragon Age because it's all shitty medieval, but as far as his point goes, the Dalish seem to be able to live free without demon infestations wiping out a clan here and there or mages enslaving everyone or everyone enslaving mages.
Ummm...the Dalish do have demon infestations. You can ask Merill about it, and she'll tell you it does happen, and when it does the clans have to come together to kill the Abomination. It also helps that the Dalish are few in numbers, and fewer in mages. For example, if 1 in 10 mages go demon, and the Dalish as a whole only have 60 mages while the Circles have 1,000 mages, there's going to be a hell of a difference in total quantity of Abominations.
PSN|AspectVoid
+1
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Yeah, any time someone says "demons aren't that big a deal, really", the Dragon Age part of my brain gets deeper into Inquisition territory. It started at Amberley Vail, passed early Eisenhorn some time ago, and with this latest set of arguments, I'm nearing on Torquemada Coteaz.
I think by the time the game launches, my only dialog tree options will be "Innocence proves nothing", "Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood." and (Light them on fire).
And I doubt options 1 and 2 will see much use.
Oh man. Never go full Coteaz.
I don't think the circles are designed to fail. I think the Templars and the Chantry really believe it's the best way to protect people from mages and mages from themselves. It's clearly not a great solution, but. I don't believe there's as much artifice there as people are ascribing.
Ummm...the Dalish do have demon infestations. You can ask Merill about it, and she'll tell you it does happen, and when it does the clans have to come together to kill the Abomination. It also helps that the Dalish are few in numbers, and fewer in mages. For example, if 1 in 10 mages go demon, and the Dalish as a whole only have 60 mages while the Circles have 1,000 mages, there's going to be a hell of a difference in total quantity of Abominations.
Four posts up. If 10% of the Dalish clans are getting wiped by demons before the others catch up and put it down, that's way more pressing than the old world fading away. Either it's not that bad or it's sloppy writing.
I don't think the circles are designed to fail. I think the Templars and the Chantry really believe it's the best way to protect people from mages and mages from themselves.
This is probably true. Though, it's probably also true that tranquilizing a few mages here and there and controlling the entire lyrium trade are also incentives for the current system.
If mages weren't so prone to possession, I'd be more lenient towards them. Blood magic is obviously a horrible practice (FWI: lots of people did die when Daddy Hawke was forced use it, it's one of the reasons he left the Free Marches), but it's the abominations that scare me the most. Blood magic is a personal choice, possession can just happen at random.
One thing of note is that the rate of mage births are increasing as of DA2, despite mages being discouraged from breeding. Meaning more and more mages are being born from non-Mage couples.
What makes me curious is if being a Mage is a genetic thing or perhaps the weakening of the Veil is making mages more common, a combination of both, or perhaps something else?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
If mages weren't so prone to possession, I'd be more lenient towards them. Blood magic is obviously a horrible practice (FWI: lots of people did die when Daddy Hawke was forced use it, it's one of the reasons he left the Free Marches), but it's the abominations that scare me the most. Blood magic is a personal choice, possession can just happen at random.
One thing of note is that the rate of mage births are increasing as of DA2, despite mages being discouraged from breeding. Meaning more and more mages are being born from non-Mage couples.
What makes me curious is if being a Mage is a genetic thing or perhaps the weakening of the Veil is making mages more common, a combination of both, or perhaps something else?
What do you mean' so prone'? Do you have some figures or something? Or are you basing this off of DA2? Regardless, nobody likes abominations running around, but it turns out locking mages away their entire lives is a good way to make more of them. The Circle should be more of a cooperative venture than an punitive one.
If mages weren't so prone to possession, I'd be more lenient towards them. Blood magic is obviously a horrible practice (FWI: lots of people did die when Daddy Hawke was forced use it, it's one of the reasons he left the Free Marches), but it's the abominations that scare me the most. Blood magic is a personal choice, possession can just happen at random.
One thing of note is that the rate of mage births are increasing as of DA2, despite mages being discouraged from breeding. Meaning more and more mages are being born from non-Mage couples.
What makes me curious is if being a Mage is a genetic thing or perhaps the weakening of the Veil is making mages more common, a combination of both, or perhaps something else?
What do you mean' so prone'? Do you have some figures or something? Or are you basing this off of DA2? Regardless, nobody likes abominations running around, but it turns out locking mages away their entire lives is a good way to make more of them. The Circle should be more of a cooperative venture than an punitive one.
Cooperative would be bad. That would lead to friendships between Templars and Mages and compromise the Templar's ability to put a mage who was either using blood magic or had become and abomination down. You really need the slight bit of rivalry and animosity there so that when the worst case scenario happens, the Templars can drop the hammer.
Also, my percentages of mages becoming abominations in an earlier post were just made up numbers. I was just pointing out how rediculous it is to compare Circle Mages who become Abominations vs Dalish (or any other group for that matter) simply because the other groups of "free" mages are so much smaller than Circle mages, so even if the percentage of mages who become abominations remain the same, it'll artificially look like Circle mages become demons more often because of sheer numbers. Bioware's never released numbers on mages becoming abominations, and until they do so any argument that the Circle causes demons more often or less often is stupid.
Whoops, double posted that. Anyway, we need Bioware to release scientific studies of the long term effects of Mages being raised in a Circle environment vs Free Ranged. Don't listen to that political propaganda from the rebels! Trust only Scientific studies!
We have too small of a sample size to really judge abomination rates here, guys. The Fereldan circle had ONE Abomination that kinda rolled a lot of shit downhill, and he was motivated primarily by a lust for power, less a desire to escape the Templars. It's also worth noting that that ONE Abomination threatened/totaled an entire Circle, complete with Templar guards. Greagoir and his men may or may not have been able to wipe out Uldred before they spread, but if the Warden wasn't there the death toll would have been catastrophic.
In DA2, Abominations literally pop up from the ground for no reason, are incredibly minor foes, and I think that can be explained by the short dev cycle and the shit encounter design that plagued the game. However, the most powerful abomination in the game is a fucking doozy. Spoilers here.
Anders accepted Justice and became an Abomination. Fact. Sure, it may have taken a while for Anders to become completely subsumed, and Justice was warped by the act, but he's a demon/mage hybrid. Abomination. He became an abomination from a stupid simple temptation to help a 'friend', and that led to the deaths of countless innocents in Kirkwall and he basically broke Thedas.
Abominations are a huge threat. Not all Abominations murder entire villages, and the Templars are pretty good at dealing with them when they find them(seriously, not a lot of Abominations popped up IN the Gallows that Hawke had to deal with until all hell broke loose, and Kirkwall is expressly a demon magnet,) but a powerful spirit in a powerful Mage will lead to big problems every time. And it's going to happen regardless of whether or not mages are in the Circle. However, if they're in the circle, it's a lot easier to contain the mages, to keep them from experimenting on a helpless populace with blood magic, and to find and stop the abominations as soon as they pop up.
Of course, if you have a First Enchanter that is actively working against the Templar-Commander of the Circle, then you've got problems. It's a situation like that where the Rite of Annulment comes into play, when a Circle is so poisoned and problematic that it has stopped functioning. If only Meredith had called it earlier. It's a shame she's so fucking nice to the mages under her control.
+1
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
If only Meredith wasn't so fucking batshit insane.
Posts
Except... it's like saying you have a substance that becomes unstable if you heat it and so the best place to store is next to a bonfire.
If Mage's negative feelings are causing abominations, how about we try to make sure mages are happy and stuff? Maybe something like mandatory therapy instead of mandatory imprisonment?
That would be hard.
It's much easier to do something quick and dirty and do some hand-waving and say "for the greater good" a lot (practice doing this in a mirror if you can't keep a straight face you ruin the effect!)
Sarcasm aside, I think the circle "solution" is a problem chasing a solution, and I think it's intentional.
The circles are designed to fail. When they fail the chantry is right there to wipe out that circle, and the mages are all conveniently gathered together to be eliminated.
I think you've got part of it.
The circles are designed to fail, but look like the results of the failures are the reason the circles need to exist. As a result, the Chantry and the Templars are able to use the circles as an inexhaustible way to justify their own necessity/existence.
Breaking this down:
Vs the Keeper who got deliberately possessed before Hawke's team even showed up with no contingency plan other than "hope these guys I know very little about can deal with it." Clearly Merrill is the dumb one here. *rolls eyes*
And then the dumb elves show up and be dumb. It would have been entirely reasonable to redefine the terms of Merrill's banishment (so that she was ACTUALLY banished and couldn't keep visiting like you do all game) based on what happened. Killing someone that your leader DIED TO PROTECT is ridiculous.
Whereas if Hawke claims responsibility for killing Marethari, they act puzzled but understand he/she is clearly lying to protect Merrill, but let the group pass under the pretense of permanent exile.
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Well,
Point being the options aren't only mages enslaving muggles, muggles enslaving mages, or demons murdering everyone and oh well life. From the looks of it, Solas is going to be further evidence along these lines, but who knows, maybe we'll get a little Kirkwall going and Solas will turn out to be the possessed demon archfiend behind the entire rift.
You're not mistaken. There's some inconsistencies between what Leliana says in Origins and her DLC. It's not too bad though.
But you are right that what happens can more or less be summed up in the few lines on Origins. That said, it's still not too bad of a DLC.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Like how in Origins, the Dalish Mage used blood magic to turn hundreds of humans into werewolves that caused thousands of deaths.
Or how in DA2 when a Dalish Mage tried to control a Pride demon and failed?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
That's kind of a point against your argument, I think. Yeah, he used blood magic to cast a powerful curse (on a bunch of cunts who actually deserved it, though not their descendents...) but he didn't become an abomination to do it. Even at max pain and turmoil, and delving into some serious dark mojo, he didn't pull a Kirkwall.
On that note, hopefully you can stick it in your companions.
Exactly how many examples do we have where people don't die because of a blood Mage?
I believe the answer is zero.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Oh my...
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
I think by the time the game launches, my only dialog tree options will be "Innocence proves nothing", "Now you will pay for your freedom in the currency of honest toil and human blood." and (Light them on fire).
And I doubt options 1 and 2 will see much use.
Why I fear the ocean.
Make no mistake about my intentions on my canon run. I fully intend to murder about half the party. All mages and the spirit inhabiting the human body.
Well, considering the protagonist can be a blood mage...
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
The werewolf thing isn't great (though since they only seemed to be hunting the one Dalish clan recently and you don't hear about werewolves from anyone else, thousands sounds dubious).
Still this strikes me as likely sloppy writing rather than intent (DA2 especially). Blood mages make good villains so they include them as foes often. Given what we know of Dalish society and how the Keeper-Apprentice system seems to be universal, it's hard to believe they have problems nearly as frequently as the Circle (or as the protagonist encounters), otherwise they'd be worried less about quickening and slowly receding from the world in true magical elf style than demons slaughtering entire clans.
(Irenicus is still Bioware's best villain)
Spoit, you misspelled
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Plus he's voiced by Pontius Pilate from Jesus Christ Superstar, and that's awesome.
Shitty Tumblr:lighthouse1138.tumblr.com
Also so he could murder you after you beat the guy you THOUGHT was going to be the final boss so he could take over. SUCKER!
Why I fear the ocean.
No, it really doesn't. Dragon Age 2 is not representative of the situation in Thedas at large. The Rite of Annulment has been called 17 times over 700 years. Abominations aren't popping up every five seconds. Normally, things are stable. If anything, the current situation is a consequence of loosening controls too much.
And before we try to treat the Dalish as some kind of proof that a magical abomination free existence is possible, lets remind ourselves that Dalish abominations do happen. The Dalish themselves freely admit it.
Of course this is all tangential to the point. Even if mages WERE completely possession free, heavily monitoring them and regulating them with the Circle is still the only sane option. Their capacity for mind control makes them far too dangerous to be let loose in society at large. A reminder that mind control is so prolific in Tevinter politics that Adralla's development of protective methods against mind control led to her having to flee the country.
Yes clearly because he didn't become an abomination to do it, that somehow mitigates the extensive dangers demonstrated by free mages in this case. They are innately weaponized beings who's powers leave little evidence of their involvement. Let loose into society at large, they would be untouchable as they are in Tevinter.
If anything it shows us how easily the Dalish mageocracy would become like Tevinter if they had the numbers for it.
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"Old world elves withdrawing from the world in lieu of man," "abominations murdering entire clans," and "Dalish mages afforded freedom and leadership" are not narratives that make sense together.
A zealot's position. If mages weren't able to be possessed and were treated humanely, the slim minority that tried to use blood magic to control others would be a pretty poor reason for universally shackling them (not to mention they'd likely be defended against by other mages).
Given that our party in DA3 is going to include a Fade-scholar apostate and a blood magic-wielding attempted lightsider, I expect we'll see much more of this issue.
It is simply too easy to hide your crime and gather more power. The fact that it only NEEDS to be a slim minority to have extremely ill effects is the problem. Do you think the mages of Tevinter are a majority? They are not.
It's only ever been a choice between two outcomes: Oppress or be oppressed.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Of course then there's Idunna, so one or the other is sloppy writing.
I bet city elves are a much bigger demon threat... their life sucks.
Ummm...the Dalish do have demon infestations. You can ask Merill about it, and she'll tell you it does happen, and when it does the clans have to come together to kill the Abomination. It also helps that the Dalish are few in numbers, and fewer in mages. For example, if 1 in 10 mages go demon, and the Dalish as a whole only have 60 mages while the Circles have 1,000 mages, there's going to be a hell of a difference in total quantity of Abominations.
Oh man. Never go full Coteaz.
I don't think the circles are designed to fail. I think the Templars and the Chantry really believe it's the best way to protect people from mages and mages from themselves. It's clearly not a great solution, but. I don't believe there's as much artifice there as people are ascribing.
Four posts up. If 10% of the Dalish clans are getting wiped by demons before the others catch up and put it down, that's way more pressing than the old world fading away. Either it's not that bad or it's sloppy writing.
This is probably true. Though, it's probably also true that tranquilizing a few mages here and there and controlling the entire lyrium trade are also incentives for the current system.
If mages weren't so prone to possession, I'd be more lenient towards them. Blood magic is obviously a horrible practice (FWI: lots of people did die when Daddy Hawke was forced use it, it's one of the reasons he left the Free Marches), but it's the abominations that scare me the most. Blood magic is a personal choice, possession can just happen at random.
One thing of note is that the rate of mage births are increasing as of DA2, despite mages being discouraged from breeding. Meaning more and more mages are being born from non-Mage couples.
What makes me curious is if being a Mage is a genetic thing or perhaps the weakening of the Veil is making mages more common, a combination of both, or perhaps something else?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
What do you mean' so prone'? Do you have some figures or something? Or are you basing this off of DA2? Regardless, nobody likes abominations running around, but it turns out locking mages away their entire lives is a good way to make more of them. The Circle should be more of a cooperative venture than an punitive one.
Cooperative would be bad. That would lead to friendships between Templars and Mages and compromise the Templar's ability to put a mage who was either using blood magic or had become and abomination down. You really need the slight bit of rivalry and animosity there so that when the worst case scenario happens, the Templars can drop the hammer.
Also, my percentages of mages becoming abominations in an earlier post were just made up numbers. I was just pointing out how rediculous it is to compare Circle Mages who become Abominations vs Dalish (or any other group for that matter) simply because the other groups of "free" mages are so much smaller than Circle mages, so even if the percentage of mages who become abominations remain the same, it'll artificially look like Circle mages become demons more often because of sheer numbers. Bioware's never released numbers on mages becoming abominations, and until they do so any argument that the Circle causes demons more often or less often is stupid.
In DA2, Abominations literally pop up from the ground for no reason, are incredibly minor foes, and I think that can be explained by the short dev cycle and the shit encounter design that plagued the game. However, the most powerful abomination in the game is a fucking doozy. Spoilers here.
Abominations are a huge threat. Not all Abominations murder entire villages, and the Templars are pretty good at dealing with them when they find them(seriously, not a lot of Abominations popped up IN the Gallows that Hawke had to deal with until all hell broke loose, and Kirkwall is expressly a demon magnet,) but a powerful spirit in a powerful Mage will lead to big problems every time. And it's going to happen regardless of whether or not mages are in the Circle. However, if they're in the circle, it's a lot easier to contain the mages, to keep them from experimenting on a helpless populace with blood magic, and to find and stop the abominations as soon as they pop up.
Of course, if you have a First Enchanter that is actively working against the Templar-Commander of the Circle, then you've got problems. It's a situation like that where the Rite of Annulment comes into play, when a Circle is so poisoned and problematic that it has stopped functioning. If only Meredith had called it earlier. It's a shame she's so fucking nice to the mages under her control.