Oyyy, to maybe attempt to make up for what I just said in the SE++ thread that I feel kind of iffy about, I've never really dug the killing joke or understood for the most part why it was beloved (and the parts with Barbara in various states of undress and the Joker photographer her do totally imply sexual assault).
Beyond that I think having the Joker as this one-dimensional, ultra-violent, sadistic monster that he has been since then makes him a horribly uninteresting character, and that only really Grant Morrison has broken him out of that stage during a long run of Batman. And then Snyder basically snapped right back into it, and it's been my absolute biggest problem with his time on the Bat-Books.
What happens to Barbara in the Killing Joke is really gross and takes a character a lot of people love, and turns her into a victim in order to torture a character to help break another character. She's the means to the means to an end, and calling back to that story on an alternate cover to a series that is focused on a brand new, modern take on the character, is really gross to a lot of people.
This is very true.
It's also something that has happened to almost every single other Bat Family member. Alfred, Jason Todd, and Dick Grayson especially. Babs is not alone in suffering as a means to an end to get at Bruce.
Everything else aside, that's a great cover in terms of showing a fear that has yet to be overcome in this reboot world (can't remember much of the Death of the Family tie-ins but she was freaked out there). It's a genuinely creepy cover that elaborates on the thing Kevin Maguire did years ago in that Batman Confidential arc where Joker is never more scary than when you can't see his whole face. As opposed to that Spider-Woman cover, this is drawing the right kind of emotion you want from a cover, it's really making you feel something one way or the other.
Having just read Death of the Family, Barbara isn't freaked out during the arc. She actively wants to get involved to stop the Joker along with the rest of the extended family.
I think that one thing that might negate some of the negativity around the cover would be if Barbara's expression was one of defiance/anger instead of fear. You can still have the exact same composition without her being portrayed as being revictimized.
What happens to Barbara in the Killing Joke is really gross and takes a character a lot of people love, and turns her into a victim in order to torture a character to help break another character. She's the means to the means to an end, and calling back to that story on an alternate cover to a series that is focused on a brand new, modern take on the character, is really gross to a lot of people.
This is very true.
It's also something that has happened to almost every single other Bat Family member. Alfred, Jason Todd, and Dick Grayson especially. Babs is not alone in suffering as a means to an end to get at Bruce.
What sticks for me is that she's victimized to get to Jim Gordon to get to Bruce. And Alfred, Jason Todd and DIck Grayson aren't generally stripped and photographed in the process.
I mentioned this in the SE thread, but I recently read The Killing Joke for the first time (long story short, I grew up in an area without a comic shop, so I'm playing catch up on most major characters). Gross is basically the best way to describe the book. I did find the violence to be a bit much, but that's more my personal preference and I wouldn't hold that against it. The part that bothered me was the stripping of her for photography to show her father. That to me was sexual assault and completely pulled me out of the book.
Had they left her clothes on, they would have revealed to him his daughter was brutally attacked and I would have felt upset or angry and as a parent I would have put myself in his shoes. As they show Joker pull at her shirt earlier and then insist on naked photos, I instead felt grossed out and questioned why it was necessary at all and why the author needed to go to that level. It completely pulled me out of the scene and reduced the effectiveness of the story being told. Also, I'm pretty sure if Gordon had a son, there wouldn't have been wiener pics on the wall.
Maybe I misunderstood the intentions of those images, but for me it was enough that I probably won't re-read and certainly left me confused on why it is so highly regarded to the point that people want to draw tributes to it. I'm glad they see that it doesn't fit the atmosphere of the current run.
The creative team on the book hadn't seen the cover when it was publicised, and once they had said hmm great cover but not really where the book is at right now. Which seems reasonable.
And now four days of Batgirl trending on twitter and making the newspapers and TALIBAN CENSORSHIP arglbargl.
What happens to Barbara in the Killing Joke is really gross and takes a character a lot of people love, and turns her into a victim in order to torture a character to help break another character. She's the means to the means to an end, and calling back to that story on an alternate cover to a series that is focused on a brand new, modern take on the character, is really gross to a lot of people.
This is very true.
It's also something that has happened to almost every single other Bat Family member. Alfred, Jason Todd, and Dick Grayson especially. Babs is not alone in suffering as a means to an end to get at Bruce.
What sticks for me is that she's victimized to get to Jim Gordon to get to Bruce. And Alfred, Jason Todd and DIck Grayson aren't generally stripped and photographed in the process.
Yeah, Dick Grayson was only actually raped in his comic. Completely dissimilar to that cover.
PSN|AspectVoid
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Garlic Breadi'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm aRegistered User, Disagreeableregular
Everything else aside, that's a great cover in terms of showing a fear that has yet to be overcome in this reboot world (can't remember much of the Death of the Family tie-ins but she was freaked out there). It's a genuinely creepy cover that elaborates on the thing Kevin Maguire did years ago in that Batman Confidential arc where Joker is never more scary than when you can't see his whole face. As opposed to that Spider-Woman cover, this is drawing the right kind of emotion you want from a cover, it's really making you feel something one way or the other.
Having just read Death of the Family, Barbara isn't freaked out during the arc. She actively wants to get involved to stop the Joker along with the rest of the extended family.
I think that one thing that might negate some of the negativity around the cover would be if Barbara's expression was one of defiance/anger instead of fear. You can still have the exact same composition without her being portrayed as being revictimized.
Kyle deciding to split up the power of the White Lantern and the Life Equation into seven rings and forms an official White Lantern Corps. Six, including Kyle, are shown, the seventh member is a secret. The issues ends with Kyle and Carol flying off into the sunset, happy with their situation and each other. No hint of whatever is or isn't coming with Omega Men.
Kind of a bummer if Omega Men ruin the closing of a major chapter for Kyle by killing him (which shouldn't even really be possible in some way). I'm still guessing that Omega Men will be revealed to be a stealth Kyle/Green Lantern-related book.
What happens to Barbara in the Killing Joke is really gross and takes a character a lot of people love, and turns her into a victim in order to torture a character to help break another character. She's the means to the means to an end, and calling back to that story on an alternate cover to a series that is focused on a brand new, modern take on the character, is really gross to a lot of people.
This is very true.
It's also something that has happened to almost every single other Bat Family member. Alfred, Jason Todd, and Dick Grayson especially. Babs is not alone in suffering as a means to an end to get at Bruce.
What sticks for me is that she's victimized to get to Jim Gordon to get to Bruce. And Alfred, Jason Todd and DIck Grayson aren't generally stripped and photographed in the process.
Yeah, Dick Grayson was only actually raped in his comic. Completely dissimilar to that cover.
What
That has nothing to do with Joker or anything in that conversation
Now if you said that Jason Todd was brutally murdered to get back at Batman, that Dick had a bomb strapped to his heart to get back at Batman, and that Alfred was put in a state of torture with Fear Toxin to get back at Batman, or any other of the horrible shit that was done to the Bat Family to get at Bruce through this loved ones, it would apply.
As terrible as Dick getting raped was and putting up with that abuse, it wasn't a move to get at Bruce/The Bat Family.
Now if you said that Jason Todd was brutally murdered to get back at Batman, that Dick had a bomb strapped to his heart to get back at Batman, and that Alfred was put in a state of torture with Fear Toxin to get back at Batman, or any other of the horrible shit that was done to the Bat Family to get at Bruce through this loved ones, it would apply.
As terrible as Dick getting raped was and putting up with that abuse, it wasn't a move to get at Bruce/The Bat Family.
And even then there was still that extra remove. Granted it was because Joker didn't know, but he didn't go after Batgirl to go after Batman. Maybe he didn't think Bats valued her as much as the Robins or Nightwing? Anyway, he went after Barbara Gordon to go after Jim Gordon to go after Batman. She wasn't even the weapon; she was the tool with which he fine-tuned the weapon.
But isn't it canon now that Joker has known the real identities of Batman/Robin/Batgirl for some time now? He probably knew during The Killing Joke who Barbara Gordon really was.
I did not see any issue with the Batgirl cover. When I read TKJ years ago, I thought that in the tone of the book, it fit. The Joker wanted to break Gordon, and he took it to the extreme by showing his daughter in a broken and vulnerable state.
edit - damn image link
Invectivus on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
He should be putting Superman into a shitty leather Jacket, or stapling a mullet to his head or something.
Devin Grayson wrote a pretty shit run on Nightwing that included a totally-not-a-weird-author-insert named Tarantula who had sex with Dick while he was in shock after she killed Blockbluster. It was...something.
But isn't it canon now that Joker has known the real identities of Batman/Robin/Batgirl for some time now? He probably knew during The Killing Joke who Barbara Gordon really was.
But isn't it canon now that Joker has known the real identities of Batman/Robin/Batgirl for some time now? He probably knew during The Killing Joke who Barbara Gordon really was.
Yes. The Joker clearly knows the real identities of the Bat Family. Death of the Family heavily hinted at it and Endgame right out confirms it with The Joker's "Hello, Bruce".
It's unclear when he learned, but he probably didn't know all of them way back when 'The Killing Joke' happened. It's a more recent development.
I did not see any issue with the Batgirl cover. When I read TKJ years ago, I thought that in the tone of the book, it fit. The Joker wanted to break Gordon, and he took it to the extreme by showing his daughter in a broken and vulnerable state.
edit - damn image link
It's an image created by someone trying to poke fun at an issue that is clearly way over their heads.
I got into a huge Facebook debate about this last night. What bothers me about this whole situation is that most people are looking at it as an issue of censorship when it's really not. The fact that most people don't get "why" the cover was pulled is just more proof that the issue is so ubiquitous that it's almost invisible.
I dunno, the whole "savior of GL/white lantern/etc" thing never felt right to me. But I guess they had to do something to make him different once Hal came back.
I'd be down with his New Guardian early status quo with being able to switch between every color.
Apparently the new Omega Men book is based on the premise that the Omega Men
kill "White Lantern Kyle Rayner" and now the universe wants them dead.
Booo if true, but solicitation reads like there's more to it than that. I don't particularly want to read Omega Men but I guess will have to if this is an ongoing plot point / revealed to be not as it seems
My hope is Omega Men is a
stealth Kyle Rayner book and the end of issue reveal is he's hiding with them.
I mentioned this in the SE thread, but I recently read The Killing Joke for the first time (long story short, I grew up in an area without a comic shop, so I'm playing catch up on most major characters). Gross is basically the best way to describe the book. I did find the violence to be a bit much, but that's more my personal preference and I wouldn't hold that against it. The part that bothered me was the stripping of her for photography to show her father. That to me was sexual assault and completely pulled me out of the book.
Had they left her clothes on, they would have revealed to him his daughter was brutally attacked and I would have felt upset or angry and as a parent I would have put myself in his shoes. As they show Joker pull at her shirt earlier and then insist on naked photos, I instead felt grossed out and questioned why it was necessary at all and why the author needed to go to that level. It completely pulled me out of the scene and reduced the effectiveness of the story being told. Also, I'm pretty sure if Gordon had a son, there wouldn't have been wiener pics on the wall.
Maybe I misunderstood the intentions of those images, but for me it was enough that I probably won't re-read and certainly left me confused on why it is so highly regarded to the point that people want to draw tributes to it. I'm glad they see that it doesn't fit the atmosphere of the current run.
I re-read The Killing Joke last night. It doesn't hold up well. It's a crass book and Batman laughing with Joker after what happened to Barbara and Gordon is just... crass. I get it was a turning point when it first came out, but damn it doesn't read great now.
It looks like he protected his account and is going on a twitter break. The tweet, from Cameron Stewart, was : "Something to clarify, because DCs statement was a little unclear. @rafaalbuquerque did not get threats. People OBJECTING to the cover did."
How shitty, man (for him, and Albuquerque and the whole team there). This weird misogynist cultural backlash we've been experiencing is way out of hand.
This kind of blows my mind. I read about the vague death threats and it...didn't really make a lot of sense at the time.
Misogyny and Bad Opinion People aside, what really slays me is the weird premise of people complaining about censorship and limiting the freedom of expression but end up doing a much better job of making a case against those very things.
I don't know if there will ever be a valid use of death threats in public conversation, but if that's all you've got to offer to your cause, guess what? You are sabotaging your own efforts to be treated as an equal in the discussion.
+1
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
It looks like he protected his account and is going on a twitter break. The tweet, from Cameron Stewart, was : "Something to clarify, because DCs statement was a little unclear. @rafaalbuquerque did not get threats. People OBJECTING to the cover did."
How shitty, man (for him, and Albuquerque and the whole team there). This weird misogynist cultural backlash we've been experiencing is way out of hand.
This kind of blows my mind. I read about the vague death threats and it...didn't really make a lot of sense at the time.
Misogyny and Bad Opinion People aside, what really slays me is the weird premise of people complaining about censorship and limiting the freedom of expression but end up doing a much better job of making a case against those very things.
I don't know if there will ever be a valid use of death threats in public conversation, but if that's all you've got to offer to your cause, guess what? You are sabotaging your own efforts to be treated as an equal in the discussion.
Death threats aren't protected under free speech, it's a criminal act and the only way to stop it is to prosecute. Hopefully the people who have been sending out death threats to people over this will be getting just that
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
It looks like he protected his account and is going on a twitter break. The tweet, from Cameron Stewart, was : "Something to clarify, because DCs statement was a little unclear. @rafaalbuquerque did not get threats. People OBJECTING to the cover did."
How shitty, man (for him, and Albuquerque and the whole team there). This weird misogynist cultural backlash we've been experiencing is way out of hand.
This kind of blows my mind. I read about the vague death threats and it...didn't really make a lot of sense at the time.
Misogyny and Bad Opinion People aside, what really slays me is the weird premise of people complaining about censorship and limiting the freedom of expression but end up doing a much better job of making a case against those very things.
I don't know if there will ever be a valid use of death threats in public conversation, but if that's all you've got to offer to your cause, guess what? You are sabotaging your own efforts to be treated as an equal in the discussion.
Death threats aren't protected under free speech, it's a criminal act and the only way to stop it is to prosecute. Hopefully the people who have been sending out death threats to people over this will be getting just that
My point was actually more along the lines of the absurdity of using death threats to prevent censorship.
+1
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
It looks like he protected his account and is going on a twitter break. The tweet, from Cameron Stewart, was : "Something to clarify, because DCs statement was a little unclear. @rafaalbuquerque did not get threats. People OBJECTING to the cover did."
How shitty, man (for him, and Albuquerque and the whole team there). This weird misogynist cultural backlash we've been experiencing is way out of hand.
This kind of blows my mind. I read about the vague death threats and it...didn't really make a lot of sense at the time.
Misogyny and Bad Opinion People aside, what really slays me is the weird premise of people complaining about censorship and limiting the freedom of expression but end up doing a much better job of making a case against those very things.
I don't know if there will ever be a valid use of death threats in public conversation, but if that's all you've got to offer to your cause, guess what? You are sabotaging your own efforts to be treated as an equal in the discussion.
Death threats aren't protected under free speech, it's a criminal act and the only way to stop it is to prosecute. Hopefully the people who have been sending out death threats to people over this will be getting just that
My point was actually more along the lines of the absurdity of using death threats to prevent censorship.
I think it's this cultural phenomenon that's related to Gamergate where there's this underlying violent misogyny in a lot of people, and anyone who challenges that gets death threats. There's a lot of very sick people out there, you can make an argument that a lot of the culture out there influences people to hold these views, but that definitely doesn't make it acceptable or rational
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
It looks like he protected his account and is going on a twitter break. The tweet, from Cameron Stewart, was : "Something to clarify, because DCs statement was a little unclear. @rafaalbuquerque did not get threats. People OBJECTING to the cover did."
How shitty, man (for him, and Albuquerque and the whole team there). This weird misogynist cultural backlash we've been experiencing is way out of hand.
This kind of blows my mind. I read about the vague death threats and it...didn't really make a lot of sense at the time.
Misogyny and Bad Opinion People aside, what really slays me is the weird premise of people complaining about censorship and limiting the freedom of expression but end up doing a much better job of making a case against those very things.
I don't know if there will ever be a valid use of death threats in public conversation, but if that's all you've got to offer to your cause, guess what? You are sabotaging your own efforts to be treated as an equal in the discussion.
Death threats aren't protected under free speech, it's a criminal act and the only way to stop it is to prosecute. Hopefully the people who have been sending out death threats to people over this will be getting just that
My point was actually more along the lines of the absurdity of using death threats to prevent censorship.
I think it's this cultural phenomenon that's related to Gamergate where there's this underlying violent misogyny in a lot of people, and anyone who challenges that gets death threats. There's a lot of very sick people out there, you can make an argument that a lot of the culture out there influences people to hold these views, but that definitely doesn't make it acceptable or rational
I think we may be having two entirely different conversations about this issue.
I hold no doubt that there are people that are, in fact, disturbed, violent, and misogynist, and have found a way to use the Internet to focus their proclivities and possibly be even very easily swayed to work together on stating their position on a thing that happened.
But the cognitive dissonance of their efforts betrays an incredible gap in their understanding of some of the fundamental concepts of modern thought. Hell, not even modern. I find it remarkable.
+1
Zavianuniversal peace sounds better than forever warRegistered Userregular
It looks like he protected his account and is going on a twitter break. The tweet, from Cameron Stewart, was : "Something to clarify, because DCs statement was a little unclear. @rafaalbuquerque did not get threats. People OBJECTING to the cover did."
How shitty, man (for him, and Albuquerque and the whole team there). This weird misogynist cultural backlash we've been experiencing is way out of hand.
This kind of blows my mind. I read about the vague death threats and it...didn't really make a lot of sense at the time.
Misogyny and Bad Opinion People aside, what really slays me is the weird premise of people complaining about censorship and limiting the freedom of expression but end up doing a much better job of making a case against those very things.
I don't know if there will ever be a valid use of death threats in public conversation, but if that's all you've got to offer to your cause, guess what? You are sabotaging your own efforts to be treated as an equal in the discussion.
Death threats aren't protected under free speech, it's a criminal act and the only way to stop it is to prosecute. Hopefully the people who have been sending out death threats to people over this will be getting just that
My point was actually more along the lines of the absurdity of using death threats to prevent censorship.
I think it's this cultural phenomenon that's related to Gamergate where there's this underlying violent misogyny in a lot of people, and anyone who challenges that gets death threats. There's a lot of very sick people out there, you can make an argument that a lot of the culture out there influences people to hold these views, but that definitely doesn't make it acceptable or rational
I think we may be having two entirely different conversations about this issue.
I hold no doubt that there are people that are, in fact, disturbed, violent, and misogynist, and have found a way to use the Internet to focus their proclivities and possibly be even very easily swayed to work together on stating their position on a thing that happened.
But the cognitive dissonance of their efforts betrays an incredible gap in their understanding of some of the fundamental concepts of modern thought. Hell, not even modern. I find it remarkable.
It's not just internet fans as well, there are even high profile Marvel writers that have been misogynist d-bags
yeah, that's true, but I know a ton of indie writers would kill for that gig
I mean
Of course
But that doesn't make him a "high profile Marvel writer"
That's like Bendis or Remender or Soule
yea, wording was poor, I meant more like 'high profile writer' as in 'works for Marvel on their big summer event tie-ins' as opposed to 'low profile writer' that doesn't get work at Marvel ever
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Andy JoeWe claim the land for the highlord!The AdirondacksRegistered Userregular
I read All-Star Superman. It was pretty good!
Should I read Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow and tell you guys which one I liked more y/n
Also, Superman: For All Seasons doesn't get enough appreciation (maybe because people understandably turned against Jeph Loeb later in his career).
Yeah, this is one of my favorite Superman books, but if you're going to read it I'd also suggest reading John Byrne's 1986 Man of Steel miniseries that was the post-crisis origin for Superman and continues to inspire his modern status quo.
The issues of For All Seasons are set in-between issues of Man of Steel.
I would argue that there are actually quite a few really good Superman stories though, and most of them are fairly recent. Geoff Johns's run on Action Comics with Gary Frank and a couple other artists from a few years back was pretty good (especially the Legion of Superheroes and Brainiac stories), although Johns eventually got pulled from the Superbooks and editorial ran his dangling plot threads into the ground.
A revitalized Superman line was a promise the new 52 barely missed and then totally flopped on (books were solid out the gate except for Superman, which eventually sank the whole line when Scott Lobdell took over). That said, Morrison's run on Action Comics is excellent and is intended to be his origin story for the All-Star version of Superman. After he leaves the title, skip six issues (or one trade/hardcover) and jump to Greg Pak's run, which has also been phenomenal so far.
I'm really excited to see how the Superbooks come back from the mini-relaunch in June, and I'm also hoping a Supergirl relaunch isn't far away either.
Posts
Beyond that I think having the Joker as this one-dimensional, ultra-violent, sadistic monster that he has been since then makes him a horribly uninteresting character, and that only really Grant Morrison has broken him out of that stage during a long run of Batman. And then Snyder basically snapped right back into it, and it's been my absolute biggest problem with his time on the Bat-Books.
This is very true.
It's also something that has happened to almost every single other Bat Family member. Alfred, Jason Todd, and Dick Grayson especially. Babs is not alone in suffering as a means to an end to get at Bruce.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
Having just read Death of the Family, Barbara isn't freaked out during the arc. She actively wants to get involved to stop the Joker along with the rest of the extended family.
I think that one thing that might negate some of the negativity around the cover would be if Barbara's expression was one of defiance/anger instead of fear. You can still have the exact same composition without her being portrayed as being revictimized.
What sticks for me is that she's victimized to get to Jim Gordon to get to Bruce. And Alfred, Jason Todd and DIck Grayson aren't generally stripped and photographed in the process.
Had they left her clothes on, they would have revealed to him his daughter was brutally attacked and I would have felt upset or angry and as a parent I would have put myself in his shoes. As they show Joker pull at her shirt earlier and then insist on naked photos, I instead felt grossed out and questioned why it was necessary at all and why the author needed to go to that level. It completely pulled me out of the scene and reduced the effectiveness of the story being told. Also, I'm pretty sure if Gordon had a son, there wouldn't have been wiener pics on the wall.
Maybe I misunderstood the intentions of those images, but for me it was enough that I probably won't re-read and certainly left me confused on why it is so highly regarded to the point that people want to draw tributes to it. I'm glad they see that it doesn't fit the atmosphere of the current run.
And now four days of Batgirl trending on twitter and making the newspapers and TALIBAN CENSORSHIP arglbargl.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Yeah, Dick Grayson was only actually raped in his comic. Completely dissimilar to that cover.
Kind of a bummer if Omega Men ruin the closing of a major chapter for Kyle by killing him (which shouldn't even really be possible in some way). I'm still guessing that Omega Men will be revealed to be a stealth Kyle/Green Lantern-related book.
That has nothing to do with Joker or anything in that conversation
As terrible as Dick getting raped was and putting up with that abuse, it wasn't a move to get at Bruce/The Bat Family.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
And even then there was still that extra remove. Granted it was because Joker didn't know, but he didn't go after Batgirl to go after Batman. Maybe he didn't think Bats valued her as much as the Robins or Nightwing? Anyway, he went after Barbara Gordon to go after Jim Gordon to go after Batman. She wasn't even the weapon; she was the tool with which he fine-tuned the weapon.
Diablo 3 - ArtfulDodger#1572
Minecraft - ArtfulDodger42
Thoughts, comments on this image?
I did not see any issue with the Batgirl cover. When I read TKJ years ago, I thought that in the tone of the book, it fit. The Joker wanted to break Gordon, and he took it to the extreme by showing his daughter in a broken and vulnerable state.
edit - damn image link
He doesn't know and doesn't care.
Yes. The Joker clearly knows the real identities of the Bat Family. Death of the Family heavily hinted at it and Endgame right out confirms it with The Joker's "Hello, Bruce".
It's unclear when he learned, but he probably didn't know all of them way back when 'The Killing Joke' happened. It's a more recent development.
Yes. It was pretty terrible.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
It's an image created by someone trying to poke fun at an issue that is clearly way over their heads.
I got into a huge Facebook debate about this last night. What bothers me about this whole situation is that most people are looking at it as an issue of censorship when it's really not. The fact that most people don't get "why" the cover was pulled is just more proof that the issue is so ubiquitous that it's almost invisible.
I'd be down with his New Guardian early status quo with being able to switch between every color.
My hope is Omega Men is a
I re-read The Killing Joke last night. It doesn't hold up well. It's a crass book and Batman laughing with Joker after what happened to Barbara and Gordon is just... crass. I get it was a turning point when it first came out, but damn it doesn't read great now.
DC would never make that a cover, meaning it's not particularly good at making it's point.
Twice!
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/
I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
This kind of blows my mind. I read about the vague death threats and it...didn't really make a lot of sense at the time.
Misogyny and Bad Opinion People aside, what really slays me is the weird premise of people complaining about censorship and limiting the freedom of expression but end up doing a much better job of making a case against those very things.
I don't know if there will ever be a valid use of death threats in public conversation, but if that's all you've got to offer to your cause, guess what? You are sabotaging your own efforts to be treated as an equal in the discussion.
Death threats aren't protected under free speech, it's a criminal act and the only way to stop it is to prosecute. Hopefully the people who have been sending out death threats to people over this will be getting just that
My point was actually more along the lines of the absurdity of using death threats to prevent censorship.
I think it's this cultural phenomenon that's related to Gamergate where there's this underlying violent misogyny in a lot of people, and anyone who challenges that gets death threats. There's a lot of very sick people out there, you can make an argument that a lot of the culture out there influences people to hold these views, but that definitely doesn't make it acceptable or rational
I think we may be having two entirely different conversations about this issue.
I hold no doubt that there are people that are, in fact, disturbed, violent, and misogynist, and have found a way to use the Internet to focus their proclivities and possibly be even very easily swayed to work together on stating their position on a thing that happened.
But the cognitive dissonance of their efforts betrays an incredible gap in their understanding of some of the fundamental concepts of modern thought. Hell, not even modern. I find it remarkable.
It's not just internet fans as well, there are even high profile Marvel writers that have been misogynist d-bags
well I meant more as 'higher profile than average comic book writer who doesn't get to write big summer event Marvel comics'
That's not really the same thing
He's writing a digital tie-in book
yeah, that's true, but I know a ton of indie writers would kill for that gig
Of course
But that doesn't make him a "high profile Marvel writer"
That's like Bendis or Remender or Soule
yea, wording was poor, I meant more like 'high profile writer' as in 'works for Marvel on their big summer event tie-ins' as opposed to 'low profile writer' that doesn't get work at Marvel ever
Should I read Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow and tell you guys which one I liked more y/n
Yeah, this is one of my favorite Superman books, but if you're going to read it I'd also suggest reading John Byrne's 1986 Man of Steel miniseries that was the post-crisis origin for Superman and continues to inspire his modern status quo.
The issues of For All Seasons are set in-between issues of Man of Steel.
I would argue that there are actually quite a few really good Superman stories though, and most of them are fairly recent. Geoff Johns's run on Action Comics with Gary Frank and a couple other artists from a few years back was pretty good (especially the Legion of Superheroes and Brainiac stories), although Johns eventually got pulled from the Superbooks and editorial ran his dangling plot threads into the ground.
A revitalized Superman line was a promise the new 52 barely missed and then totally flopped on (books were solid out the gate except for Superman, which eventually sank the whole line when Scott Lobdell took over). That said, Morrison's run on Action Comics is excellent and is intended to be his origin story for the All-Star version of Superman. After he leaves the title, skip six issues (or one trade/hardcover) and jump to Greg Pak's run, which has also been phenomenal so far.
I'm really excited to see how the Superbooks come back from the mini-relaunch in June, and I'm also hoping a Supergirl relaunch isn't far away either.
Because it shows a male hero, crying and helpless?
Kiiiiiiinda the point.
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