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[DC Comics]: Crisis on Infinite #Rebirths

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  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    Mego Thor wrote: »
    Sorce wrote: »
    Mego Thor wrote: »
    I never understood the confusion surrounding the Pre-Crisis multiverse set-up. It seemed perfectly reasonable to me.
    Because people would have issues with the Hal Jordan they were reading not being the same Hal Jordan that would say, pop up in The Flash or something.

    Yes, but most of the named alternate dimensions (Earth-Two, Earth-Three, Earth-S, etc...) had either completely different heroes, or heroes with the same name but different costumes and civilian identities. You rarely saw exact duplicates.
    I don't think they were always labelled though, plus, DC probably wanted to get everyone on the same page (metaphorically? literally? you decide!) to make it easier in the long run.

    The long run not being nearly as long as they thought it would be, of course.

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  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    Mego Thor wrote: »
    I never understood the confusion surrounding the Pre-Crisis multiverse set-up. It seemed perfectly reasonable to me.
    Before Crisis on Multiple Earths, DC had a very ad-hoc set-up, which grew up directly because of the issues with continuity - you could say it was the real result of comic fans from the 60s and 70s becoming aware of continuity and multiple authors' attempts to make some sense of what had previously been very seat-of-the-pants storytelling, as well as an effort to explain how some characters could be fighting the Nazis in the 40s and still be fighting crime today.

    Which has its strong points and its weak points. Bottom-up storytelling like that is often innovative and vivacious on an issue-to-issue level, but it can get really messy to work into any sort of longer theme or plot. You might compare the early Hellboy shorts by Mignola to the longer arcs he developed later on. In DC's case, this meant trying to reconcile things like Green Lantern (Alan Scott) and Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)...which led to some interesting glosses.

    latest?cb=20090121133742
    Like this one. Which deserves a retrospective. But I say that a lot.

    But the kitchen-sink nature of sprawling comic book universes, the way people dislike throwing characters et al. away, and the way that fans grow up and become creators leads to some...cycles of things. Comic characters don't often stay dead, you know, but writing around a character's death involves adding new levels of complication - and sometimes, old concepts don't always jive quite nicely with current concepts (*cough* Superboy Prime *cough*hack*wheeze*). So you have periods of innovation, followed by ossification as the continuity gets "set in," followed by shake-up, break-down, and renewal.

    And when I say "cyclical," I also mean that the people that were kids reading comics in the 70s and 80s are the people writing for DC now. And in not too many years, the kids that were reading comics in the 90s and 00s are going to have their turn, and we'll probably see the return of some character concepts from that era - which might not mean a return of Justice League Europe (more's the pity, that was a fun comic).

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  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    Jim Lee apparently said during the in-store convention thing that Rob Williams (Martian Manhunter) will be writing Suicide Squad with Lee on art. I'm actually pretty interested in that.

    I bought a new tablet so I can switch my DC reading over to digital. It will also allow me to be very pick-and-choosey with the relaunch books that I pick up weekly vs those where I wait for price decreases, sales, or bundle/trade discounts.

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  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    So...Superman 50 is out today right? How did the meeting with Pre Flashpoint Superman go? Is it more than one panel?

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  • ArmorocArmoroc Registered User regular
    So...Superman 50 is out today right? How did the meeting with Pre Flashpoint Superman go? Is it more than one panel?

    Apparently that plot got moved around. Its gonna be for the next big crossover before Rebirth. Its gonna be written entirely by Tomasi in what appears to be all the Superman titles?? (Except American Alien and Lois and Clark).

  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    The only DC thing I'm following now is Darkseid war, which feels like it's coming out at a grinding glacier's pace.

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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    The only DC thing I'm following now is Darkseid war, which feels like it's coming out at a grinding glacier's pace.

    And it's not even very good? I recently flipped through the issues because it's been so long I couldn't remember what happened at the beginning and, uh, the pacing on this thing sucks. It's been, what, 8 - 10 issues already (more if you count the one shots?) and there's been maybe two major plot developments, mostly filler, and a big focus on characters that aren't even in the Justice League. The Justice League is just guest starring in this story.

  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    Rans wrote: »
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    The only DC thing I'm following now is Darkseid war, which feels like it's coming out at a grinding glacier's pace.

    And it's not even very good?

    *sigh...* Yeah.

    I'm just a sucker for any story that has the words 'Anti-Life' in it, apparently.

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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    Watching this DC Rebirth livestream. Initial thoughts are that the Batman line looks pretty good, although it wasn't really the weak link in the new 52 anyway. Tim Drake back in a more classic Robin costume was nice to see, though.

    I don't understand the Superman line at all. It looks like the Lois & Clark pre-new 52 Superman is the new ongoing "real" Superman going forward? Did they say anything about what happens to the new 52 Superman we've been following for the last few years? Not that I have any deep love for the new 52 stuff I've been following, but right now I'm not sold on the Super-titles (although Tomasi on Superman with the double feature all-star art team of Mahnke and Gleason is exciting).

    Venditti continues his mission of making the Green Lantern titles the most boring comics published. Somehow his reign of snores is allowed to continue on Hal Jordan & the Green Lantern Corps. Green Lanterns is about Jessica Cruz and Simon Baz. They're undefined enough that it could be good, but the Red Lanterns are the villains in the first arc and they are just so played out at this point. Was hoping to see the emotional spectrum stuff given a rest for awhile.

  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    Yeah, I watched the live stream, and I wasn't very excited about the stuff that was announced, but there are a few things I'm interested in still.

    -Batman (Maybe)
    -Detective (Maybe; I'm super psyched by the idea of it as a Bat-family showcase)
    -All-Star Batman
    -Trinity
    -Action Comics (if I can get caught up on the last year of Super-stories by Rebirth's release)
    -Superman
    -Wonder Woman

    I would maybe hold out a little longer with Vendetti on GL, but I don't know. I have 0 interest on Humphries' Green Lanterns; I'm over the Red Lanterns and nothing was done with Cruz or Baz that makes me care about them.

    Stuff like Flash, Aquaman, and Constantine sounds like it could be good, but I'll trade or digital wait those for a story or two so I can hear peoples' feedback.

    Supergirl has Steve Orlando, who is supposed to be great, but it's picking right up with Supergirl's New 52 history which I'm not very keen on, so I might hold out on that one. Teen Titans with Damien could be cool, but I've never heard of the writer and I'm afraid it will be constantly interacting with Titans, so that's a wait and see as well.

    I wish I was more excited about Justice League, but Hitch's run has been weird and I don't know if I'm into it anymore without him on art. I'm also sad that Johns doesn't seem to be writing anything beyond the Rebirth One-Shots.

    HadjiQuest on
  • UltimateInfernoUltimateInferno Registered User regular
    edited March 2016
    Probably only check out All-Star Batman monthly, though hoping that The Flash is really good. Also Christopher Priest on Deathstroke is crazy interesting. Batman, Trinity and Action Comics/Superman/New Superman sound like they could be cool too.

    Guessing that the JLA title with unannounced creative team will be the JSA book with Geoff Johns and Jay Fabok on it. Also guessing that Shazam might be part of that team?

    UltimateInferno on
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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Tomasi, Mahnke AND Gleason on Superman? Fuck that's a solid team. Like, the most solid creative team I've seen in a good long while. That's a buy.

    Greg Rucka on Wonder Woman again could be interesting, although I don't like the idea of doing bi-weekly and then making each issue alternate between stories. Defeats the purpose, innit?

    Christopher Priest on Deathstrok is definitely worth a look for an issue or two.

    New Super-Man sounds dumb. Especially when you add in the hyphen on the name.

    And who the hell is Jessica Cruz with her family festival facepaint lantern? I kind of forgot Baz was still a Green Lantern too.

  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    edited March 2016
    I mean, if DC wanted to get me back on their dick, putting Rucka and Scott on Wonder Woman would be the way to do it. Unfortunately for them, I'm still going to trade-wait it and not buy the singles.

    Sorce on
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  • RansRans Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Tomasi, Mahnke AND Gleason on Superman? Fuck that's a solid team. Like, the most solid creative team I've seen in a good long while. That's a buy.

    Greg Rucka on Wonder Woman again could be interesting, although I don't like the idea of doing bi-weekly and then making each issue alternate between stories. Defeats the purpose, innit?

    Christopher Priest on Deathstrok is definitely worth a look for an issue or two.

    New Super-Man sounds dumb. Especially when you add in the hyphen on the name.

    And who the hell is Jessica Cruz with her family festival facepaint lantern? I kind of forgot Baz was still a Green Lantern too.

    Fairly confident I'm going to drop the Super-titles at this point. It looks like the pre-new 52 Superman and the new 52 Superman are either going to merge or maybe the new 52 Superman dies in the upcoming Super League arc or (more likely) in Johns' Rebirth one shot. If the new 52 Superman's absence is part of the story, that may have a chance of keeping me, but I hate wonky continuity history-merging crap. It's certainly happening with the Supergirl title, merging new 52 Kara with the TV show's Kara. The new title has Kara having Earth parents and using the name Danvers, which new 52 Kara never did, yet Cyborg Superman is still her father, a development from her new 52 series.

    the Green Lanterns book looks to be a "all of Geoff Johns' final ideas for Green Lantern that he never got to write" book. He created Simon Baz for no real purpose, never did anything with him, and neither has Venditti or the recent crop of GL writers. Johns also created Jessica Cruz in the Justice League book where she has been Power Ring, unfortunate inheritor of the Earth-3 ring. She'll earn a GL ring by the end of Darkseid war.

    So far Rebirth looks to be taking me from roughly 9 books per month to 2 or 3 books per month (albeit double-shipping books, so 4 - 6 books for comparison's sake).

  • UltimateInfernoUltimateInferno Registered User regular
    If that superman stuff ends up being true, going to be so weird. Him interacting with all the other heroes would be neat though

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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Full DC solicits for June

    Been so long since I looked through these, but the Superman stuff looks interesting. Plus, I just want to see Mahnke draw real Superman again. And I didn't know Patrick Zircher was drawing Action Comics, that's worth a look. And WW looks like a pickup, but nothing from the Batman side looks interesting. Didn't realize they have Cassandra and Spoiler in the group now, but I do sort of like the new Batman costume with the yellow outline on the bat.

    Didn't even realize DC was still doing those Earth One books, the Teen Titans solicit reads so sad.

  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    Cassandra Cain's new uniform looks like shiiiit.

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  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Hmmm...I wonder how they will pull that off. The Nu52 - Pre52 Superman I mean.

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  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    Sorce wrote: »
    Cassandra Cain's new uniform looks like shiiiit.
    Is that the green and purple one? Maybe the colors of all that black look really bad for the cover, so they made her... brighter...

  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    It's the batgirl without the ears on the Detective Comics' cover.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I picked up my physical pull list of comics today after 2 months, and it's interesting how the shop is doing the Rebirth stuff: they're carrying over no titles come April or May or whenever, you have to put check off what you want to pick up. They straight up said they got burned bad with the DCnU after the second year with all the creative changes and DC You bombing super hard on top of that.

    It's not just the DC stuff they're worried about, Marvel hasn't been selling well either recently but hasn't been as visible to the bottom line (the X-Men stuff has dropped the hardest they said), and they've turned into a much more pop culture type store, apparently there's been a big uptick in toys being bought because you can't really find them consistently in big stores and the higher end statues and sort of big ticket items to show off in homes are selling well, along with perennial evergreens like DKR selling because of the BVS movie and they're expecting Civil War to do the same.

    But anyway, I picked up Batman #50 just to see what was going on since I stopped reading during Zero Year, and wow that didn't read like a Batman book. It was more like a Constantine book, and then there were lots of robot Batmans and then a super big robot Batman and a new Robin and Bruce Wayne is like super healed and took up the mantle again (the new suit does look really good when Capullo draws it), it seems like everyone is getting their reset button in place for whatever happens with Rebirth. Although I do think the Bat-family needs to be super trimmed down again, there's way too many people, the Harper Row character wasn't here at all which was surprising because she's a Snyder creation, or maybe she died due to total lack of interest or something.

  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    Sorce wrote: »
    It's the batgirl without the ears on the Detective Comics' cover.

    Also looks real similar to this
    latest?cb=20090928171212

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  • Mike DangerMike Danger "Diane..." a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    I picked up my physical pull list of comics today after 2 months, and it's interesting how the shop is doing the Rebirth stuff: they're carrying over no titles come April or May or whenever, you have to put check off what you want to pick up. They straight up said they got burned bad with the DCnU after the second year with all the creative changes and DC You bombing super hard on top of that.

    It's not just the DC stuff they're worried about, Marvel hasn't been selling well either recently but hasn't been as visible to the bottom line (the X-Men stuff has dropped the hardest they said), and they've turned into a much more pop culture type store, apparently there's been a big uptick in toys being bought because you can't really find them consistently in big stores and the higher end statues and sort of big ticket items to show off in homes are selling well, along with perennial evergreens like DKR selling because of the BVS movie and they're expecting Civil War to do the same.

    But anyway, I picked up Batman #50 just to see what was going on since I stopped reading during Zero Year, and wow that didn't read like a Batman book. It was more like a Constantine book, and then there were lots of robot Batmans and then a super big robot Batman and a new Robin and Bruce Wayne is like super healed and took up the mantle again (the new suit does look really good when Capullo draws it), it seems like everyone is getting their reset button in place for whatever happens with Rebirth. Although I do think the Bat-family needs to be super trimmed down again, there's way too many people, the Harper Row character wasn't here at all which was surprising because she's a Snyder creation, or maybe she died due to total lack of interest or something.

    Harper became more of a Batgirl character as time went on I think? At least she seemed to be in that book all the time.

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  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    At least Batman & Robin Eternal was pretty great. It was nice seeing the entire New52 Bat Family working together to solve something without Bruce.

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  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Do we have an idea at to which parts of the DC Universe are getting retconned in Rebirth and which parts are just staying the same and continuing on under the new label?

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  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    No, but that sort of makes me want a drinking game. "Okay, Red Lanterns are in. But if Harley Quinn was/is/will be a Red Lantern, take a shot."

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  • jdarksunjdarksun Struggler VARegistered User regular
    I thought the Red Lanterns were like the anger lanterns. Was Harley a Red Lantern in some book?

  • Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    I don't think Harley was, but just about any other DC character* has been.

    *=Ok just Guy, Supergirl and Mera.

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  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    Kyle Rayner was too, briefly.

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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    I thought the Red Lanterns were like the anger lanterns. Was Harley a Red Lantern in some book?

    Harley just got a lantern ring made from a red lantern and a black lantern ring that had fused together. Red = rage, black = death, the result was an 'evil' ring that made her cruel and destructive.
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    A goofy idea, but its a goofy book.

    I suspect all of the lantern corps. will be a part of the DCU now forever. The idea is too simple and useful to discard, despite how often writers seem to try and wipe out the various colors.

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  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    Are there any current DC books I should be reading?

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  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    Not until the reboot Rebirth.

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  • ArmorocArmoroc Registered User regular
    Tomasi's current 8part storyline on the Superman titles is good right now. I'm really enjoying it and has convinced me into picking up most of the Superman titles during rebirth.

  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Pretty much all of Grayson has ranged between good and excellent. And while it will be ending with Rebirth, its telling a complete story, so there shouldn't be any hanging threads.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Armoroc wrote: »
    Tomasi's current 8part storyline on the Superman titles is good right now. I'm really enjoying it and has convinced me into picking up most of the Superman titles during rebirth.

    I did pick up Superman #51 just to see Tomasi's take leading up to the Rebirth, and it was surprisingly good.

    I know jack about what's going on with Superman right now since that arc from Supes/WW following DC You's launch, but it was this nice story that seemed to try and re-Byrne Clark, you know, actually make Clark a part of Superman again, and it also had Krypto around, so I was happy when reading it.

    Armoroc
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    I actually liked the last Batman book so that Gordon storyline might be worth it.

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  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Gordon storyline was pretty decent.

    Bataman & Robin Eternal is great.
    Grayson is great.
    Midnighter is good.

    Mostly everything else has just been 'okay' recently, though I stopped reading the DC cosmic stuff a while ago because they don't let you just read one or two of them. Endless crossovers there.

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  • ArmorocArmoroc Registered User regular
    Just got last week's comics and I read the latest action comics.
    Superman having to tell Kara what's going on (that he's dying) and handing over the fortress of solitude over to her made me feel something! I'm actually caring for the situation Superman is in. What drove it home is that the fortress is ready for Kara whenever she needs it as it has Superman's messages for Kara ala Jor El :( [spoiler\]

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  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    Okay, having read what you just wrote, I wondered "Why not Superboy?" and merrily went to read up on what happened to Kon-El in the New 52.

    ...it's my own fault. I should have known better.

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