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[DC Comics]: Crisis on Infinite #Rebirths

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  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Yup...I still think Action was the stronger of the two titles. I will stick around for the first act. Looks like a certain classic villain/friend will return in Superman. I wonder how they'll draw him this time.

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  • TairuTairu Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    Gerard Way and Nick Derington's Doom Patrol solicited for September 14th, my birthday!

    I'm very happy.

    Tairu on
  • ManetherenWolfManetherenWolf Registered User regular
    so there is a Trinity series being written/drawn by Manapul.

    Im down for that.

  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Oh, did anyone read JL52 last week? It was a Lex Luthor comic about him taking up the cape and mantle we see in Action Comics, but his reasoning is truly to live up to the legacy. He's still Lex with a giant ego, but I really enjoy our flawed Justice League trying to be a good guy N52 version of Lex.

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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    I really enjoyed the arc Spider-Man went through when Doc Ock took over his body and tried to live up to Spidey's legacy, and we got to see how a super-villain tackles being a hero.

    Wouldn't mind seeing Luthor's take on that.

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  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    I really enjoyed the arc Spider-Man went through when Doc Ock took over his body and tried to live up to Spidey's legacy, and we got to see how a super-villain tackles being a hero.

    Wouldn't mind seeing Luthor's take on that.

    We've been seeing pieces of it since Forever Evil, but it would be nice if they keep going forward with Hero Lex.

    Lex was always for the betterment of Humanity despide his Ego and hatred of Superman, but he himself has been changed with superpowers now from Apokolips.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    that would be funny if he's just jelly of his universe's Superman, but since this is a different Superman he's besties with him.

  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    TexiKen wrote: »
    that would be funny if he's just jelly of his universe's Superman, but since this is a different Superman he's besties with him.

    That would actually miss a big chunk of his character, IMO

    He wants humans to be in charge of humanity and Earth , not gods or post humans or whatever

    But I guess you mentioned he has powers now, so maybe I'm out of touch

  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    Pretty sure he immediately lost his god-powers along with everybody else at the climax of Darkseid War.
    Everyone's god-powers all got eaten by that baby. What a ridiculous sentence.

    But he still retains rulership over Apokolips and that new super-suit of his was made there, so its crazy-advanced and made with god-tech.

    I think Luthor's at his best when he's written as wanting humans to make their own destiny and he considers superhumans, especially aliens like Superman, to be holding humanity back... but there's also the suggestion that maybe that's all bullshit and deep down Lex really just wants to be the God that humanity worships. When it's ambiguous whether he's genuine but misguided or a monster who wants to be king.

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  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Agreed; that's why "Lex Luthor: Man of Steel" worked so well for me. The perspective was from Luthor's point of view, and Superman was (convincingly!) presented as the Other, as this inhuman, alien being that was fundamentally unknowable.

  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    The Johns JL stuff is on a 99 cent sale this week. I vaguely remember reading the first few issues, but is any of it worth picking up now?

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I can't remember much of the stories being worth a read in the beginning since they never even got to the JL team announced in the promo stuff with Hawkman and Lady Luck (if she ever showed up), but I recall here some of the leadup to Darkseid War being interesting, only for the actual event to take forever and end with a nothingburger apparently.

  • ArmorocArmoroc Registered User regular
    The Throne of Atlantis storyline was pretty cool. Worth a read. And the Amazo Virus story too where Favok takes over as artist around issue 35 or 36

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I really liked Superman #2, better than #1. Actually reads like it should have been 1 double sized debut issue. Interesting take here with Clark being a bit too overprotective of Jon and being a little superdickish to the nice jolly neighbor (although at this point that could be a misdirect with Ozymandias) because Clark doesn't know what to expect with Jon in terms of powers.

  • RansRans Registered User regular
    now that we can read the whole thing at once, Darkseid War makes absolutely no sense

  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    Justice League Rebirth was fun. I'm really looking forward to the first story arc. Also Superman was neat. I was a bit surprised so much story was packed in there. Modern comics tend to be about what...maybe 3 or 2 major story beats? Here's hoping the following issues keep this pace.

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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The sunny beaches of CanadaRegistered User regular
    Rans wrote: »
    now that we can read the whole thing at once, Darkseid War makes absolutely no sense

    I did like looking at it though. That scene where Darkseid and the hordes of Apokolips charges the Anti-Monitor and his shadow daemons was pretty hot. It made Kalibak seem cool too, which is an impressive achievement. I enjoyed the Flash and Green Lantern one-shots too.

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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Nightwing Rebirth #1 was good, gonna pick up the main series. Having skipped Grayson completely because of how it just seemed to be so far away from anything DC and Batman, it was easy enough to follow and how it didn't just erase everything there, but just let Dick go back to being Nightwing. Still annoying to see the Court of Owls/Parliament of Owls or whatever still being this big influence in the DCnU almost nonstop for these five years, but Seeley writes a nice Dick Grayson and the fact they kept the Nightwing name origin the same from the old universe makes me happy.


    Action #959, kind of padding out the Doomsday story to mimic the BvS movie (next issue has WW appear), but it's still fine since the character beats are Lois responding to a new Doomsday and Clark trying to recognize this Luthor might be honest in trying to help out. Kirkham's art looks a lot better than I remember it being, he's more cartoony and loose which works well here. But compared to the first two Jurgens issues following Rebirth this was a filler.

  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds Overworked Mysterious Eldritch Horror Hunter XX Registered User regular
    Grayson was like.... one of the best damn comics DC put out. Why would you skip it?

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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    I've heard it's good and will pick up the trades or digital on a comixology sale, but it came out at a time I was done with DC and the Owls and Nightwing's title before that could never get any traction going and it felt at first glance like it was trying too hard to mimic Morrison while also trying to work in the WTF continuity of DCnU and I was just all nah brah, nah.

  • RansRans Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps Rebirth #1 was probably the best issue of Venditti's run. I wonder how much influence Van Sciver had over the actual writing (I'm guessing plenty). The actual story is a continuation of the DC YOU plot but just hurried along a little. They've always been building to a confrontation between the Corps and the Sinestro Corps, they've just hurried up and dropped the Hal as renegade thing. This issue was about moving the pieces around the board to get them where they need to be but was otherwise a solid recognizably-Green Lantern issue.

    Speculation and spoilers:
    In interviews Venditti says that there is at least a two year plan in place for the story here and that much later down the road we'll look back at this issue and realize there were elements here that paid off much later. At first read, everything seems really straightforward in the issue but I think what he's talking about comes into play with Krona's Gauntlet. Hal was turning into a being of pure will and green energy but after he uses the gauntlet to forge his own ring, he takes off the gauntlet and puts on the ring which seemingly turns him human again. But isn't the ring, forged from the gauntlet, just an extension of the gauntlet? Is Hal really just human again? I'm guessing this comes back into play later.

    The Green Lanterns title is terrible. Impressively awful. We haven't had dialogue and inner monologues this excruciatingly bad since Ben Raab's run at the end of the Kyle Rayner era pre-GL: Rebirth. Something has to change or we'll see this series end around issue 12, I'm guessing.

    Rans on
  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    The second issue of Wonder Woman made me more interested in that title than the previous two. Still not digging Flash. I am intrigued by New Super-Man.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    Not sure where to put this, as it occurred in DC I felt this was the appropriate thread.

    Frank Cho's being a dick. Again.

    http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/07/14/frank-cho-walks-off-wonder-woman-after-sixth-cover/
    Frank Cho wrote:
    All the problem lies with Greg Rucka.

    EVERYONE loves my Wonder Woman covers and wants me to stay. Greg Rucka is the ONLY one who has any problem with covers. Greg Rucka has been trying to alter and censor my artwork since day one.

    Greg Rucka thought my Wonder Woman #3 cover was vulgar and showed too much skin, and has been spearheading censorship, which is baffling since my Wonder Woman image is on model and shows the same amount of skin as the interior art, and it’s a VARIANT COVER and he should have no editorial control over it. (But he does. WTF?!!!)

    I tried to play nice, not rock the boat and do my best on the covers, but Greg’s weird political agenda against me and my art has made that job impossible. Wonder Woman was the ONLY reason I came over to DC Comics.

    To DC’s credit, especially [Art Director] Mark Chiarello, they have been very accommodating. But they are caught between a rock and a hard place.

    I just wanted to be left alone and do my Wonder Woman variant covers in peace. But Greg Rucka is in a hostile power trip and causing unnecessary friction over variant covers.

    http://www.themarysue.com/frank-cho-wonder-woman/
    Frank Cho wrote:
    Since you’re asking me a straight question, I’m going to answer honestly as possible from my point of view.
    Wonder Woman was my dream job at DC Comics. I love and respect the character very much. When I was invited by DC to draw the 24 variant covers for Wonder Woman, I was ecstatic. I was told that I had complete freedom on the variant covers and the only person in charge of me was the senior art director, Mark Chiarello, who I greatly respect. Win-win for everyone.

    Now the variant covers are handled by entirely separate editorial office than the rest of the books. I was given assurance that I would not have to deal with the Wonder Woman book writer or editor at all, and were told I would only be dealing with Mark Chiarello. So I came onboard and started working right away.
    Everything went smoothly at first. I turned in my first batch of cover sketches and Chiarello approved them, and I started finishing and inking them ASAP since these were biweekly covers and we had limited time. Then Chiarello started getting art notes from Greg Rucka ordering him to tell me to alter and change things on the covers. (Remove arm band, make the skirt longer and wider to cover her up, showing too much skin, add the lasso here, etc.) Well, Chiarello and I were baffled and annoyed by Greg Rucka’s art change orders. More so, since the interior pages were showing the same amount or more skin than my variant covers. (For example: Issue #2, panel One, etc.) I requested that Greg Rucka back off and let me do my variant covers in peace. After all, these were minor and subjective changes. And let’s face it, being told by a non-artistic freelancer what I can and cannot draw didn’t sit too well with me.

    Then things got ugly. Apparently unbeknownst to Chiarello and me, DC, for whatever reason, gave Greg Rucka complete and total editorial control on Wonder Woman including variant covers by contract. My promises of creative freedom were verbal. I think this is a case of complete miscommunication and things falling through the crack during the post-DC headquarter move to LA. Had I’ve known Greg Rucka had complete editorial control over the variant covers, I would have never came onboard Wonder Woman.

    Since we were on the same team with the same goal – making great Wonder Woman comics, Mark Chiarello and I tried to reason with Greg Rucka to back off and let me do the variant covers in peace. But Rucka refused and tried to hammer me in line. Things escalated and got toxic very fast. The act of a freelance writer art directing me, overruling my senior art director, altering my artwork without consent was too much. I realized after Rucka’s problems with my Wonder Woman #3 variant cover, my excitement and desire for the project have completely disappeared and I decided to bow out quietly after I finish my Wonder Woman #4 variant cover. (This was around end of May.) But DC wanted me to stay and finish out #5 and #6 covers to give them some time to find my replacement.
    So I stuck it out and tried to deal with the flagrant disrespect for six issues, and quietly stepped off until Bleeding Cool gave me little choice but to respond. They caught wind that there was some discord in the Wonder Woman office over my covers and was about to cast negative light on the wrong people. So I went public yesterday and set the story straight, correctly naming Greg Rucka as the source of the problem before the wrong information was published.

    edit: If this isn't the right place I'll paste in the proper thread.

    Harry Dresden on
  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    I'll be honest: I'm more in Camp Cho than Camp Rucka on this one.

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  • ManetherenWolfManetherenWolf Registered User regular
    I'll be honest: I'm more in Camp Cho than Camp Rucka on this one.

    agreed. Cho might be a BIT of a instigator about his art choices, but approval of his variant pieces should go through art direction, not the writer of the book.

  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    You hire Frank Cho, you know what you're getting...unless there's a nipple showing (and there won't be; Cho is a pro) or a gross error with the anatomy (ditto), there's no reason to complain.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited July 2016
    I don't post here much, but a) one of Rucka's requirements for writing the book was a certain level of creative control (and also a certain Mr. Berganza stays the fuck away from him and his book), and as with Cho, when you hire Greg Rucka, you know what you're getting. And b) the "censorship" (It isn't censorship, it's editing, and any professional artist knows that once you are finished, the work is not yours, etc etc) was that they cropped out a panty shot. Because lord knows what Wonder Woman needs on a cover is a panty shot.

    Basically, Cho is acting like a child because his variant cover was made to emphasize Diana's arms (the actual pose isn't bad, just the emphasis), not her ass.

    Fencingsax on
  • glithertglithert Registered User regular
    Yeah I'm really bummed out that Frank Cho can't draw Wonder Woman's panties

    I'm so bummed out

    That's really what was going to convince women to read comics, was Wonder Woman's panties on the cover

  • Bobby DerieBobby Derie Registered User regular
    cho%2Bwonder%2Bwoman.JPG

    Eh. They were both promised creative control; I don't think Rucka's art direction should override that of the art director, especially not for a variant cover. I'm sure Rucka would be pissed if someone in DC editorial went through and took out a couple words they didn't like.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited July 2016
    cho%2Bwonder%2Bwoman.JPG

    Eh. They were both promised creative control; I don't think Rucka's art direction should override that of the art director, especially not for a variant cover. I'm sure Rucka would be pissed if someone in DC editorial went through and took out a couple words they didn't like.

    Well, Rucka demanded control in contract, and was given it. Because anything not in writing doesn't count. Also, he's the main creative input, whereas Cho is the furthest from, so Rucka gets to dictate tone. And again, as you can see, the drawing wasn't altered so much as cropped. The difference is changing the focus to her face and arm, rather than the T&A. Because lord knows the last thing Wonder Woman needs is a touch of feminism.

    Fencingsax on
  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    If Cho was doing the normal covers, that's one thing. But it's a variant.

    Not gonna argue that Rucka's wrong. But seriously, DC should have never given him that much control.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    If Cho was doing the normal covers, that's one thing. But it's a variant.

    Not gonna argue that Rucka's wrong. But seriously, DC should have never given him that much control.

    DC did basically the one thing to get everybody who loved Wonder Woman back before they started fucking up on board. It's just that Rucka a) knows how the industry works and b) is something of a feminist. They wanted Rucka, and Rucka didn't want to have to deal with "we can't do x thing because that's how the industry works". And DC said yes, because someone realized they need to do outside things in order to get out of where they were.

    The fact that Cho threw a hissy fit over having his cover cropped is entirely in keeping with his childish bullshit.

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    It does come across like Rucka is going after Cho not for the work as done for the first three covers but for outside reasons, probably his whole response to all the outrage (outrage!) covers of the last year or two. Which, it should at least be pointed out, are commissions and paid sketches. And Cho does have a point that the skin he's shown isn't out of line with the interior artwork and covers by Sharpe (last issue was Year One with Nicola Scott and Diana's not WW yet so it's just Toga Toga Toga). The cropping is so minimal on the final product it sort of proves there wasn't even a focus on the usual cheesecake that he does for interiors and commissions.

    If the same B&W cover drawing was submitted by the Dodsons, I don't think there would be any fuss about it.


    Anyway, the actual book itself isn't bad, it's better than Rucka's first WW run so far (which I thought was very overrated compared to previous WW writers), but I don't think it's a smart move to alternate stories between issues. It seems they're going to sync up with Steve being the focal point at the end if what's shown is any hint, but I'd rather delay the release and let a biweekly story by Sharpe reach completion before you hit Year One.

  • InvectivusInvectivus Registered User regular
    If only WW had pants would this whole controversy be avoided..........


    If only

  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    Frank Cho wrote:
    Had I’ve known Greg Rucka had complete editorial control over the variant covers, I would have never came onboard Wonder Woman.
    The entire issue in a nutshell.

    Two artists don't agree on subject matter, are put together anyway, and people are surprised there's an issue.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    If Cho was doing the normal covers, that's one thing. But it's a variant.

    Not gonna argue that Rucka's wrong. But seriously, DC should have never given him that much control.

    Variants aren't hidden from the public anymore, every cover is a PR disaster waiting to go off if they fuck it up. It's a Wonder Woman cover in the end, and what it shows represents their brand. They're not doing shit like that anymore, so when Cho goes over the line he's going to get called on it.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited July 2016
    TexiKen wrote: »
    It does come across like Rucka is going after Cho not for the work as done for the first three covers but for outside reasons, probably his whole response to all the outrage (outrage!) covers of the last year or two. Which, it should at least be pointed out, are commissions and paid sketches. And Cho does have a point that the skin he's shown isn't out of line with the interior artwork and covers by Sharpe (last issue was Year One with Nicola Scott and Diana's not WW yet so it's just Toga Toga Toga). The cropping is so minimal on the final product it sort of proves there wasn't even a focus on the usual cheesecake that he does for interiors and commissions.

    I don't see any evidence this occurred, and it's Cho whose been harping on that for months - not Rucka. His client is DC Comics, which Rucka has immense control over via contract, this isn't a convention sketch for a random fan. Then nobody would care. The cropping was minimal, but not to Cho. It was an insult to him so bad he posted about it on his blog, did interviews at various sites and directly insulted Rucka all through it. Notice he never blames the art director who told him that he'd be totes cool with his contract - the real crux of this mess.

    edit: Nor is Rucka gaining anything from this, he's been on radio silence and likely no one would have known anything if Cho quit without speaking to the press/online. Meanwhile this re-charges Cho's anti-OUTRAGE!!!! bonafides with the usual suspects, which has died down now the Manara cover has lost heat.

    Harry Dresden on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Superman #3 was a good reintroduction of Eradicator and what he entails, along with Jorge Jiminez's art being top shelf and a perfect trade-off with Gleason for the art duties. It has a cliffhanger that is going to be reversed because if Tomasi kept it he would be a monster, but I have to admit I did not expect this Rebirth thing to still be consistently good for four issues, we have to go back to James Robinson's run for that to happen.

    Batman #3, it's doing something I always wanted to see from Morrison's Batman & Robin series, which was give some hope to Gotham City proper and show it's not just dark and sad all the time, and Tom King is doing it with Gotham and Gotham Girl. It's a Superman level of optimism being injected into Batman's world which gives it that kind of Dixon/Tomasi Nightwing vibe in terms of having dark villains, but not dark heroes. Hopefully he doesn't just shit on it in the end but I like this origin of Gotham's two new heroes, and we also get Matches Malone appearing which is always a treat, on top of David Finch drawing three issues in a row.

    It's been a long, long time since all the main DC books of the Trinity have been consistently good. We're talking post Our Worlds at War, maybe.

  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    I didn't realize that Gleason wasn't the artist this week, and I read it twice already.

  • mrmrmrmr nameless protagonist Registered User regular
    Such a turnaround for me with Rebirth. I am actually excited to read Action Comics and Superman. Batman and Detective Comics a little less so, but still I get pumped for new issues. It seems like just such a switch in morale in the comics as a whole from the New 52, even when some books have the same creative team.

    The only real books I haven't loved (and a "meh" is still even the worst reaction I'd give) are Flash and Green Lanterns. Flash seems like it WILL be good, but right now it feels like more of the same (although next issue looks pretty interesting). Green Lanterns is an idea I kind of like, with the two freshest GLs in a sort of buddy cop situation, but Sam Humphries writes like he hasn't actually read any Green Lantern books recently. Reducing Atrocitus and co. to "Red Blood Death Evil muahaha" baddies is kind of annoying.

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