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[Bitcoins] The Fainting Goat of Money

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  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    SteevL wrote: »
    I'm just a casual lurker of this thread, but in light of recent events I thought you all might find this amusing:

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    I imagine the CEO of MtGox going through customs in the Cayman Islands or wherever he's run off to with everybody's money.

    "Anything to declare?"

    "Other than the seventeen thousand liters of brow sweat from libertarian neckbeards, no, not really."

    Must own his own airport, he'd never get through security with more than 3 ounces.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    I imagine the CEO of MtGox going through customs in the Cayman Islands or wherever he's run off to with everybody's money Bitcoins.

    "Anything to declare?"

    "Other than the seventeen thousand liters of brow sweat from libertarian neckbeards, no, not really."

    Stealing is easy.

    Fencing can be a bitch.

  • XixXix Miami/LosAngeles/MoscowRegistered User regular
    Bitcoin really does have no chance of going anywhere right?

    I want to place some big bets against it.

  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    Xix wrote: »
    Bitcoin really does have no chance of going anywhere right?

    I want to place some big bets against it.

    Depends on what "not going anywhere" means.

    It'll probably still exist in some niche fashion. It will never be a mainstream currency. Dogecoin is more of a currency.

    It's weird because most people treat it like mining for physical materials like gold, where it'd make sense to do what they're doing on some tangential level. But no, they're mining useless numbers and holding on to them for some reason.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Xix wrote: »
    Bitcoin really does have no chance of going anywhere right?

    I want to place some big bets against it.

    Depends on what "not going anywhere" means.

    It'll probably still exist in some niche fashion. It will never be a mainstream currency. Dogecoin is more of a currency.

    It's weird because most people treat it like mining for physical materials like gold, where it'd make sense to do what they're doing on some tangential level. But no, they're mining useless numbers and holding on to them for some reason.

    You could use bitcoin to sign messages.

    Only one wallet can have a bitcoin, and everyone in the network knows who this wallet is, so if someone sends you a message with a bitcoin from that wallet, you know for sure that bitcoin came from that wallet so the message is from the entity controlling that wallet.

    It is crypto-currency after all.

    }
    "Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
  • XixXix Miami/LosAngeles/MoscowRegistered User regular
    Would a Bitcoin true believer believe Dogecoins are also a valid currency?

  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    Xix wrote: »
    Would a Bitcoin true believer believe Dogecoins are also a valid currency?

    lol no. They get really angry about it.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    Jephery wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Xix wrote: »
    Bitcoin really does have no chance of going anywhere right?

    I want to place some big bets against it.

    Depends on what "not going anywhere" means.

    It'll probably still exist in some niche fashion. It will never be a mainstream currency. Dogecoin is more of a currency.

    It's weird because most people treat it like mining for physical materials like gold, where it'd make sense to do what they're doing on some tangential level. But no, they're mining useless numbers and holding on to them for some reason.

    You could use bitcoin to sign messages.

    Only one wallet can have a bitcoin, and everyone in the network knows who this wallet is, so if someone sends you a message with a bitcoin from that wallet, you know for sure that bitcoin came from that wallet so the message is from the entity controlling that wallet.

    It is crypto-currency after all.

    That's almost bordering on quantum encryption there.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • XixXix Miami/LosAngeles/MoscowRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Xix wrote: »
    Would a Bitcoin true believer believe Dogecoins are also a valid currency?

    lol no. They get really angry about it.

    But why? I don't get it. Aren't they basically the same thing?

    It'd be like getting mad because there's other currencies besides US Dollar in the world wouldn't it?

  • bowenbowen Sup? Registered User regular
    Xix wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Xix wrote: »
    Would a Bitcoin true believer believe Dogecoins are also a valid currency?

    lol no. They get really angry about it.

    But why? I don't get it. Aren't they basically the same thing?

    It'd be like getting mad because there's other currencies besides US Dollar in the world wouldn't it?

    Think of it more like it'd be like getting mad because people are using monopoly money and people are way more willing to accept it over USD. But it's not USD, it's this idea of a dollar bill that was mathematically calculated.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • XixXix Miami/LosAngeles/MoscowRegistered User regular
    Dogecoin is more accepted than Bitcoin? Where?

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    Xix wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Xix wrote: »
    Would a Bitcoin true believer believe Dogecoins are also a valid currency?

    lol no. They get really angry about it.

    But why? I don't get it. Aren't they basically the same thing?

    It'd be like getting mad because there's other currencies besides US Dollar in the world wouldn't it?

    Bitcoin:

    presidentbusiness.jpg?l.r=-1260249910

    Dodgecoin:

    emmet.jpg?l.r=613194612

  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    Xix wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Xix wrote: »
    Would a Bitcoin true believer believe Dogecoins are also a valid currency?

    lol no. They get really angry about it.

    But why? I don't get it. Aren't they basically the same thing?

    It'd be like getting mad because there's other currencies besides US Dollar in the world wouldn't it?

    Because instead of buying dogecoins you should be buying bitcoins to raise the price of the bitcoins they own.

    l5sruu1fyatf.jpg

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Xix wrote: »
    Dogecoin is more accepted than Bitcoin? Where?

    Bitcoin is "accepted" more places (read: immediately exchanged to USD in the transaction so the person selling something isn't actually getting the bitcoin).

    Dogecoin is being used as a currency in more places because it's basically worthless. Instead of being hoarded because IT'S TOTALLY GOING TO MAKE ME RICH, GUYS, people will throw out dogecoin tips for comments they like and other bullshit like that - people don't CARE about dogecoins, so they're willing to spend them and it's actually being used like a currency.

  • XixXix Miami/LosAngeles/MoscowRegistered User regular
    edited February 2014
    I could totally see myself throwing some Dogecoins for cool comments.

    Showing my approval and pissing off bitcoiners at the same time. Nice!

    Xix on
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    I assume that Dodgecoin also isn't prone to speculation bubbles, because no one is proposing Dodgecoin as a retirement fund.

  • evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    I assume that Dodgecoin also isn't prone to speculation bubbles, because no one is proposing Dodgecoin as a retirement fund.

    I dunno man. There were people who'd spent money on dogecoins that were bitching when they decided to make it mildly inflationary.

    l5sruu1fyatf.jpg

  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    evilbob wrote: »
    I assume that Dodgecoin also isn't prone to speculation bubbles, because no one is proposing Dodgecoin as a retirement fund.

    I dunno man. There were people who'd spent money on dogecoins that were bitching when they decided to make it mildly inflationary.

    Those were most likely Bitcoin refugees who weren't in on the joke.

  • hsuhsu Registered User regular
    Of course dogecoins are better than bitcoins. Really, who can resist?
    Top-Image.png

    iTNdmYl.png
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    Dogecoin also has valuable mind presence with Venetian restorationists. Bitcoin, being Genoese adherents naturally take offence.

    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
  • chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    Man I hate the Doge meme, but I love Dogecoin because it is just inherently silly, and they know it. If only Coinye hadn't been killed by lawyers there'd be some competition for Dogecoin.

    steam_sig.png
  • Apothe0sisApothe0sis Have you ever questioned the nature of your reality? Registered User regular
    You aren't allowed to be a person and hate the doge meme.

    Please submit yourself to the nearest zoo for observation and breeding program.

  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    breeding program you say?

  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    dogecoins have taken the opposite approach as Bitcoins and flooded the market with volume.

    Apparently judging from reddit people give you dogecoins for comments

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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    dogecoins aren't deflationary and in many ways resemble a real currency. Not a good one mind you but I'd say it's better than buttcoin.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
  • XixXix Miami/LosAngeles/MoscowRegistered User regular
    How do I mine Dogecoins?

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Bitcoin is the perfect example for why basing a currency on a scarce resource is a bad idea. The currency stops being a currency and becomes a commodity to buy and sell and hoard.

  • TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane Not Angry... Just VERY Disappointed...Registered User regular
    Xix wrote: »
    How do I mine Dogecoins?

    Ironically, I believe.

  • SmasherSmasher Starting to get dizzy Registered User regular
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    redditor wrote:
    Wrong. Regulations generally protect producers more than consumers. There is a lot of empirical evidence on rent-seeking behavior and regulatory capture.
    What is correct about your statement is that people are flawed and all businesses are run by people. Some business will commit fraud and some well make mistakes out of ignorance. The beauty of free enterprise is that the market will learn from past mistakes and products/services will improve. This will happen without the knee jerk reaction of "more regulation" opening the doors for producers to enact self serving regulation under the guise of protecting consumers.

    Well, The Market appears to be a pretty slow learner.

    Look, if you buy poisoned meat from one company, you're certainly not going to buy from that company again! Assuming you survive anyway

    Y'know why this example is especially hilarious to me? I know multiple people who actually bought bad meat from a producer... and they just kept buying meat from the same producer.


    It's almost as if decision-making isn't as simple & straight-forward as certain demographics seem to think.

    With Love and Courage
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Well you see that was because of regulations. They trusted that the bad meat was clearly a mistake because the regulations made them complacent and distorted the market. If there weren't any regulations they would have immediately switched because they wouldn't have been tricked by the regulations into believing it was a one time thing.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • NarbusNarbus Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    redditor wrote:
    Wrong. Regulations generally protect producers more than consumers. There is a lot of empirical evidence on rent-seeking behavior and regulatory capture.
    What is correct about your statement is that people are flawed and all businesses are run by people. Some business will commit fraud and some well make mistakes out of ignorance. The beauty of free enterprise is that the market will learn from past mistakes and products/services will improve. This will happen without the knee jerk reaction of "more regulation" opening the doors for producers to enact self serving regulation under the guise of protecting consumers.

    Well, The Market appears to be a pretty slow learner.

    Look, if you buy poisoned meat from one company, you're certainly not going to buy from that company again! Assuming you survive anyway

    Look. The meat is safe BECAUSE there is no regulation, okay? It's simple. If the meat were bad, no one would buy it. If no one buys it, it gets pulled from the shelf. So, since it's on the shelf, that means people are buying it, which means its safe.

    IT IS SO OBVIOUS.

  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    It's funny in a way because I feel like I can kinda relate to the MtGox people because I have a similar investment (not in volatility, but well...let me explain).

    So a lot of people get into Bitcoin because they like the idea of a decentralized currency. It may not be everything they is, but the core idea of having a currency which isn't controlled by a group of banks is one that I can see appeals to some people. So they get into it with the knowledge that hey - this experiment is something which is volatile but they want to support on principle. If it goes down, okay, that sucks. But a lot of people don't think about the second way you can lose money: on a new investment type, there isn't the established history for the financial entities which the investment is done via, nor are there the safety nets which have been put into banks BECAUSE of that history (FDIC insurance, for example). It doesn't occur to people to think about that, so they invest more than they might otherwise do - instead of thinking "this is all money that I can afford to lose and that's that," they're thinking "if push comes to shove I can cut my losses and withdraw from the market." That's not the case.

    I'm doing a similar thing with Lending Club. For those of you unfamiliar, it's similar to Kiva, but local to the states and for a profit - instead of going to banks, people for small loans (typically a few grand to, say, 25k or so) approach LC. LC does the credit check/income verification/etc, then assigns a rating to the loan, with an interest rate, etc. Then a bunch of people drop $25 increments into the loans. Once it's established, monthly you get a small amount of repaid principal and interest, and the loan is paid back over time. The person who takes the loan gets a better rate than you would normally get from a bank, the lenders themselves directly get the interest instead of a very small amount of interest from a savings account (where the loan interest would normally go to the bank). I like this idea. It appeals to me as a general concept. So I'm buying in to a small degree because I want to support it even though I recognize it's higher risk than other investments might be (thus far, I've had 3 defaults, and some other ones which have gone into payment programs where they're basically 5 year loans instead of 3 year loans as planned). Others have completely paid off, most are just paying as expected - my annual returns right now are 9.5%. But what you would going in is that the risk is the loans you choose....but that's ignoring the concept of Lending Club itself going bankrupt. If that happens, I'm straight up SOL. Because of that, I'm not putting too much into it ($1000 base investment, although my account is now up to $1250 or so thanks to my gains).

    So yeah. It's funny, I can laugh at it, and I disagree with the advantages those people see from decentralized currencies, but at the same time, I kinda get where some of the people really wanted it to succeed even beyond seeking personal profit. But the main thing to take away from this is a general concept when it comes to any sort of investment, but especially new investment types: Never spend any money you can't afford to lose.

  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    but that's ignoring the concept of Lending Club itself going bankrupt. If that happens, I'm straight up SOL. Because of that, I'm not putting too much into it ($1000 base investment, although my account is now up to $1250 or so thanks to my gains

    Not quite. If LC goes bankrupt you will be entitled to their assets the same as any other creditor. Your agreement probably stipulates the type of priority you have but lets assume everyone in your class (of micro lenders) is second to last (behind institutional loans, ahead of capital). You will get some money out of that so long as there is some money left (bankrupt doesn't mean no money it just means assets<liabilities)

    The only time there is basically no money is if the whole thing was a scam, and the money is gone. But Lending Club is essentially a bank, and so i will assume that you can(and would have given a large enough investment) check(ed) if its conforming to such regulations.

    BTC exchanges have no such protections. The only way they fail is if they have no money. They're not based in places you can easily get to them, they avoid regulations.

    wbBv3fj.png
  • AlazullAlazull Your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride.Registered User regular
    I'll give you that that sounds somewhat risky, but as long as its money that you can stand to lose, the worst that can happen is that you lose $1000 (your initial investment) as long as you can easily take out any money you gain. If you can't easily withdraw money, I would caution you to run not walk the fuck out of that site. It's certainly a high-risk environment, but its not at all on par with putting money into something where the only way to get money back out is to trust that someone you can't legally do anything to could completely fuck you at any time, make off with your money and then come back and use it and you would have no way to know.

    User name Alazull on Steam, PSN, Nintenders, Epic, etc.
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited February 2014
    Alazull wrote: »
    I'll give you that that sounds somewhat risky, but as long as its money that you can stand to lose, the worst that can happen is that you lose $1000 (your initial investment) as long as you can easily take out any money you gain. If you can't easily withdraw money, I would caution you to run not walk the fuck out of that site. It's certainly a high-risk environment, but its not at all on par with putting money into something where the only way to get money back out is to trust that someone you can't legally do anything to could completely fuck you at any time, make off with your money and then come back and use it and you would have no way to know.

    The money itself is locked up in the individual loans, hence the risk - while there is an aftermarket to resell loans should I want to withdraw, we're talking a much smaller market than, say, stocks, so it's not nearly as liquid. Basically, looking at my notes, I could probably extract myself from LC in relatively short order if I knocked down my returns to the 6-7% so the person buying them gets their cut, too, and guarantees that they'd move in a reasonable timeframe. The laws concerning microlending like this vary from state to state, and there's a number of states which prohibit people from buying straight from LC, but who can get aftermarket loans. It's a little weird. I know in CA I had to provide proof of income over a certain amount before being allowed to participate.

    Like I said, it's more an experiment/support for an idea I like than a proper investment strategy. I've got a TON more in 401k/IRA/proper stock account/savings account. Truth be told, I rarely think about it until I get one of the emails saying "hey, you've got enough in your account to get another note." My main point is that I can kind of relate to what some of the "true believer"s are going through - less so the people who dumped a whole bunch of cash into it without thinking because they were looking to get rich quick and ruined themselves.

    e:
    Goumindong wrote: »
    but that's ignoring the concept of Lending Club itself going bankrupt. If that happens, I'm straight up SOL. Because of that, I'm not putting too much into it ($1000 base investment, although my account is now up to $1250 or so thanks to my gains

    Not quite. If LC goes bankrupt you will be entitled to their assets the same as any other creditor. Your agreement probably stipulates the type of priority you have but lets assume everyone in your class (of micro lenders) is second to last (behind institutional loans, ahead of capital). You will get some money out of that so long as there is some money left (bankrupt doesn't mean no money it just means assets<liabilities)

    The only time there is basically no money is if the whole thing was a scam, and the money is gone. But Lending Club is essentially a bank, and so i will assume that you can(and would have given a large enough investment) check(ed) if its conforming to such regulations.

    BTC exchanges have no such protections. The only way they fail is if they have no money. They're not based in places you can easily get to them, they avoid regulations.

    I believe you're correct insofar as the bankruptcy stuff is concerned, but Lending Club is not a bank. There is no FDIC insurance on this stuff. It's straight up peer-to-peer lending of loans, with a small portion of the interest going to pay for the site/running of the process.

    Jragghen on
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    btc-monopoly.png

This discussion has been closed.