Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
Lately I've been buying 2-3 green wards per back when I jungle and placing them either at the other jungler's wraiths/blue or warding the river bushes for my mid/top laners
It sucks that hardly anyone wards for themselves at my scrub elo but it seems to be working. And then I feel justified in farming more and ganking less (because ganking a pushed lane never seems to work, even when I dive with Khazix/Elise).
Also, I've been debating running teleport instead of flash on Khazix and Elise because they already have decent escapes and it would give me that extra counter ganking ability.
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+1
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Hmm, I think those might be a bit much taken off at the top end of the skill for Annie, since you're looking at 350 AP just to break even on Q. That's an outright nerf to her tankier builds really.
If you buy 2-3 greens per back get sight stone and a pink instead. At this point I don't even get greens until sightstone at nearly any position. Just pink something and it will last for years.
Also, what's the over-under on Lulu getting nerfed next patch, we should start a betting pool.
When has a champion ever managed to pull themselves out of the support ghetto without being nerfed back down? I predict hard nerfs to glitterlance base values.
If you buy 2-3 greens per back get sight stone and a pink instead. At this point I don't even get greens until sightstone at nearly any position. Just pink something and it will last for years.
Yep, an early pink is the best thing you can buy as a jungle. Stick that in the bush next to dragon and watch as it stays there for 30 minutes.
Hmm, I think those might be a bit much taken off at the top end of the skill for Annie, since you're looking at 350 AP just to break even on Q. That's an outright nerf to her tankier builds really.
Real men build Annie DFG anyway. And thank god they're buffing Nautilus' shield.
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Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
If you buy 2-3 greens per back get sight stone and a pink instead. At this point I don't even get greens until sightstone at nearly any position. Just pink something and it will last for years.
Yep, an early pink is the best thing you can buy as a jungle. Stick that in the bush next to dragon and watch as it stays there for 30 minutes.
Yeah I always buy a pink on my first back. I usually stick it in my own jungle though (haven't had much luck with offensively placed pinks lasting very long).
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
If you buy 2-3 greens per back get sight stone and a pink instead. At this point I don't even get greens until sightstone at nearly any position. Just pink something and it will last for years.
Yep, an early pink is the best thing you can buy as a jungle. Stick that in the bush next to dragon and watch as it stays there for 30 minutes.
Yeah I always buy a pink on my first back. I usually stick it in my own jungle though (haven't had much luck with offensively placed pinks lasting very long).
Bushes I've had really good luck with: That bush right behind Purple side's red, the little bush outside of baron, the bush down and to the left of blue side's red. Those spots are pretty much guaranteed to remain unchecked almost all game while giving you valuable intel. Dragon bush gets checked and cleared a lot more, but will almost always outlast a green.
"Solo players that are AFK often or reject more than a reasonable number of groups may face increasing cool-downs before they can join another group, or lose their privileges to use Team Builder altogether."
"Captains who abuse their powers and kick an extreme number of players may find that they are locked out of Team Builder for a period of time, or that it takes longer for them to fill their team because they have cool-downs before the system begins looking for potential teammates."
So it should be keeping a history of whether you are trying to abuse the system or not.
"Solo players that are AFK often or reject more than a reasonable number of groups may face increasing cool-downs before they can join another group, or lose their privileges to use Team Builder altogether."
"Captains who abuse their powers and kick an extreme number of players may find that they are locked out of Team Builder for a period of time, or that it takes longer for them to fill their team because they have cool-downs before the system begins looking for potential teammates."
So it should be keeping a history of whether you are trying to abuse the system or not.
Its weird that you can lock in a champion as well as a role. Also, kicking people seems weird. It should be a team vote.
Also, what's the over-under on Lulu getting nerfed next patch, we should start a betting pool.
When has a champion ever managed to pull themselves out of the support ghetto without being nerfed back down? I predict hard nerfs to glitterlance base values.
So like what
10-1 then?
I'll put 100 internet bucks on Glitterlance being changed to 60 / 110 / 170 / 220 / 270 (+40% AP). For comparison, live is 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 50% AP).
Not because I think she needs to be nerfed or should be nerfed but it seems like something riot would do. A kneejerk reaction to her early power would be hitting the early base values and nerfing the scaling would push her away from AP items and more towards support items.
Also, what's the over-under on Lulu getting nerfed next patch, we should start a betting pool.
When has a champion ever managed to pull themselves out of the support ghetto without being nerfed back down? I predict hard nerfs to glitterlance base values.
So like what
10-1 then?
I'll put 100 internet bucks on Glitterlance being changed to 60 / 110 / 170 / 220 / 270 (+40% AP). For comparison, live is 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 50% AP).
Not because I think she needs to be nerfed or should be nerfed but it seems like something riot would do. A kneejerk reaction to her early power would be hitting the early base values and nerfing the scaling would push her away from AP items and more towards support items.
I don't think it's necessarily her damage that's the problem, though.
My bet is that they'll increase her cooldowns (maybe Glitterlance will go from a flat 7 to 11/10/9/8/7, to prevent the EQQ combo in lane) and knock some of the scaling off her W (maybe drop it down to 7% to put her in line with Kayle's speed boost).
The thing to do with supports like Lulu is this: diminishing returns on utility scaling.
So a support Lulu with 150ap has a slow that is only slightly less effective than a mid Lulu with 400 ap. Meanwhile a solo lane Lulu is still completely viable but won't have crazy pants slows/speed ups.
If you balance supports around making utility gains matter up to around 200ap but then drop off sharply, you allow supports to be solo lane viable (because more ap is still more damage) but you don't really gain much 'support' type benefit over just running them as an actual support with less gold.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
That's horrible.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
edited March 2014
How does Vel'Koz even work? It seems like all the other mids just dumpster him with ease. Had a Kayle just now completely decimate me. Her slow duration is stupid and needs to be nerfed.
Stragint on
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What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
How does Vel'Koz even work? It seems like all the other mids just dumpster him with ease. Had a Kayle just now completely decimate me. Her slow duration is stupid and needs to be nerfed.
Well Kayle kind of hard counters burst champions...
1) Hard limit of 3/30 seconds. Not per champion, just a straight hard limit. Such its gold generation, if used perfectly, is less than coin.
2) Didn't actually see bonus damage. Definitely does not proc on towers. You also don't get gold from hitting towers
3) its active suuuucks even worse than it did before
I was able to get gold from AAing towers when I used it.
The other statements are 100% correct though.
Much like the jungle items changing to all use the same passive, I think they need to make all the support items give the shurelyia's on use. It's just so much better in every scenario than the other two.
All told I made about 700 more gold than the enemy Janna did with the coin path. The extra damage was very noticeable (on Zyra) and I definitely got gold from hitting towers. I also found the active an improvement over the previous version.
Rami on
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Spellthief does do damage and does give gold on towers. You probably killed a minion before it or didn't look at the tower for the gold pop up. The bonus damage is just added to the damage you do; watch when you have no charges left and take note of how much damage you do and then when you have charges, it'll be roughly ten more (because of resistances).
And how can you get less gold than coin? You get up to fifteen gold per thirty seconds compared to ten. Or twelve for cannon waves.
Edit-Spellthief has two gold per ten. So it's 21-10.
Medallion gets you 6x3 + 3x2 = 24 gold (27 on siege wave)
Frostfang gets you 3x10 + 3x4 = 42 gold
It is also much easier to be perfect with FF because you can store 3 charges. You'll be able to build up 3 stacks before the first minion wave spawns which gives you a 15g headstart.
It's pretty easy to come out ahead in gold generation with FF.
I haven't made my mind up about it yet but it's possibly acceptable to play Zyra support again
Rami on
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I've tried the new Spellthief on Zyra as well. She definitely makes good use of it.
I wasn't keeping track of damage numbers during the game but it certainly felt like the bonus damage was proccing (and the bonus gold was displaying as being procced on towers). I had a really solid amount of gold by the end of the game from the item, more than I usually get with Coin; the final tier not losing Tribute when you kill a minion is a pretty substantial boost to it.
I agree that the active's bloody awful, though. At the very least, it seems weirdly difficult to tell whether it's had an effect on a target - some uses I saw the snowflake icon under enemies yet they hadn't been slowed, whereas during others there was no snowflake yet the enemies were slowed.
I've tried the new Spellthief on Zyra as well. She definitely makes good use of it.
I wasn't keeping track of damage numbers during the game but it certainly felt like the bonus damage was proccing (and the bonus gold was displaying as being procced on towers). I had a really solid amount of gold by the end of the game from the item, more than I usually get with Coin; the final tier not losing Tribute when you kill a minion is a pretty substantial boost to it.
I agree that the active's bloody awful, though. At the very least, it seems weirdly difficult to tell whether it's had an effect on a target - some uses I saw the snowflake icon under enemies yet they hadn't been slowed, whereas during others there was no snowflake yet the enemies were slowed.
Yeah, the active. Go, surprisingly small and slow-moving projectile! Slow a person (maybe (if you feel like it)).
Oh my god, I just had a Soraka in a game go top and just DEVOUR Renekton.
Like, he was only level 2 when she hit 6.
Was able to successfully bait a Leona pick into Morg support. Anyone got a good build for her?
Depends on what you need her to do, damage for your team, peel, just provide shields, tank a little, etc
Probuilds is pretty depressing seeing her only in support...and losing a lot at that. (Krepo you can't play Morg, stop picking her plz)
If I glance at it and try to summarize, it looks like:
DShield/gold item du jour->Sightstone+next tier gold item+boots1->NLR->Zhonya's
Given her predilection for CDR as support, especially maxing Binding, I would imagine you could also try to get a Morello's. Most seem to abort out of AP after the Zhonya's to defense or if they do keep building, they go for Deathcap instead.
Support morg keys on cdr and hp. Stay away from Zhonya it takes too much time to build.
I like start item-> sight stone/coin-> Mobo boots -> finish talisman -> zekes herald -> GA or BV -> doesn't matter.
The idea is that you want mobility for picks hp for tanking on a counter initiate ult and cdr to root everything forever. The extra ad and life steal on your carry (who is cc immune) is just icing.
Locket is also good.
0
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
If you want to see the competing schools of thought, here's a couple probuilds links
Well obviously it depends on the game, but i find that the big items are too expensive unless you get really fed/far ahead. I like tank items better because they allow you to bully. If you're squishy you cannot stand around in front and threaten a root/ult pick. Additionally you can't body block for your ADC.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Well obviously it depends on the game, but i find that the big items are too expensive unless you get really fed/far ahead. I like tank items better because they allow you to bully. If you're squishy you cannot stand around in front and threaten a root/ult pick. Additionally you can't body block for your ADC.
That's fair, but I feel that if you just wanted to body block for your ADC and threaten picks, you probably shouldn't have picked Morgana. Shit, pick Alistar, since we're assuming this is trying to counter Leona. Okay, you can't troll shield your ADC, but your durability is better and your peel is better and depending on positioning you can still create a pick.
It may even just be schools of thought for what you want to do as a support. If you've got Morgana, I think you're all but obligated to want to go deep with Flash and land that perfect ult, which predicates the Zhonya's pick.
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pyromaniac221this just might bean interestin YTRegistered Userregular
I think with a couple small buffs Alistar is due for a big comeback in the Thresh/Leo meta. He won't be that good against Annie but that's just one ban. His denial of the popular all-in kill kill kill bot lanes is amazing and really fun.
In other news I cut my hand up pretty bad yesterday so I won't be able to play for a week probably which makes me salty because I think I finally figured out how to push past my noob feeder teammates and hit challenger but now my mechanics are gonna rust up and I'll never be able to go pro like I deserve to
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It sucks that hardly anyone wards for themselves at my scrub elo but it seems to be working. And then I feel justified in farming more and ganking less (because ganking a pushed lane never seems to work, even when I dive with Khazix/Elise).
Also, I've been debating running teleport instead of flash on Khazix and Elise because they already have decent escapes and it would give me that extra counter ganking ability.
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So like what
10-1 then?
Yep, an early pink is the best thing you can buy as a jungle. Stick that in the bush next to dragon and watch as it stays there for 30 minutes.
Yeah I always buy a pink on my first back. I usually stick it in my own jungle though (haven't had much luck with offensively placed pinks lasting very long).
Bushes I've had really good luck with: That bush right behind Purple side's red, the little bush outside of baron, the bush down and to the left of blue side's red. Those spots are pretty much guaranteed to remain unchecked almost all game while giving you valuable intel. Dragon bush gets checked and cleared a lot more, but will almost always outlast a green.
If people haven't seen it yet. They're rolling out team builder next week
edit: huh
If it's anything like what happened with WoW people will queue as ADC/Support for the shorter queue times then lock mid in champion select.
"Captains who abuse their powers and kick an extreme number of players may find that they are locked out of Team Builder for a period of time, or that it takes longer for them to fill their team because they have cool-downs before the system begins looking for potential teammates."
So it should be keeping a history of whether you are trying to abuse the system or not.
Its weird that you can lock in a champion as well as a role. Also, kicking people seems weird. It should be a team vote.
I'll put 100 internet bucks on Glitterlance being changed to 60 / 110 / 170 / 220 / 270 (+40% AP). For comparison, live is 80 / 125 / 170 / 215 / 260 (+ 50% AP).
Not because I think she needs to be nerfed or should be nerfed but it seems like something riot would do. A kneejerk reaction to her early power would be hitting the early base values and nerfing the scaling would push her away from AP items and more towards support items.
some comps will become the meta in it.
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I don't think it's necessarily her damage that's the problem, though.
My bet is that they'll increase her cooldowns (maybe Glitterlance will go from a flat 7 to 11/10/9/8/7, to prevent the EQQ combo in lane) and knock some of the scaling off her W (maybe drop it down to 7% to put her in line with Kayle's speed boost).
So a support Lulu with 150ap has a slow that is only slightly less effective than a mid Lulu with 400 ap. Meanwhile a solo lane Lulu is still completely viable but won't have crazy pants slows/speed ups.
If you balance supports around making utility gains matter up to around 200ap but then drop off sharply, you allow supports to be solo lane viable (because more ap is still more damage) but you don't really gain much 'support' type benefit over just running them as an actual support with less gold.
Why is this man indoctrinating his daughter to the Church of Satan?
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
1) Hard limit of 3/30 seconds. Not per champion, just a straight hard limit. Such its gold generation, if used perfectly, is less than coin.
2) Didn't actually see bonus damage. Definitely does not proc on towers. You also don't get gold from hitting towers
3) its active suuuucks even worse than it did before
I was able to get gold from AAing towers when I used it.
The other statements are 100% correct though.
Much like the jungle items changing to all use the same passive, I think they need to make all the support items give the shurelyia's on use. It's just so much better in every scenario than the other two.
All told I made about 700 more gold than the enemy Janna did with the coin path. The extra damage was very noticeable (on Zyra) and I definitely got gold from hitting towers. I also found the active an improvement over the previous version.
And how can you get less gold than coin? You get up to fifteen gold per thirty seconds compared to ten. Or twelve for cannon waves.
Edit-Spellthief has two gold per ten. So it's 21-10.
Medallion gets you 6x3 + 3x2 = 24 gold (27 on siege wave)
Frostfang gets you 3x10 + 3x4 = 42 gold
It is also much easier to be perfect with FF because you can store 3 charges. You'll be able to build up 3 stacks before the first minion wave spawns which gives you a 15g headstart.
It's pretty easy to come out ahead in gold generation with FF.
I haven't made my mind up about it yet but it's possibly acceptable to play Zyra support again
I wasn't keeping track of damage numbers during the game but it certainly felt like the bonus damage was proccing (and the bonus gold was displaying as being procced on towers). I had a really solid amount of gold by the end of the game from the item, more than I usually get with Coin; the final tier not losing Tribute when you kill a minion is a pretty substantial boost to it.
I agree that the active's bloody awful, though. At the very least, it seems weirdly difficult to tell whether it's had an effect on a target - some uses I saw the snowflake icon under enemies yet they hadn't been slowed, whereas during others there was no snowflake yet the enemies were slowed.
Yeah, the active. Go, surprisingly small and slow-moving projectile! Slow a person (maybe (if you feel like it)).
Like, he was only level 2 when she hit 6.
Was able to successfully bait a Leona pick into Morg support. Anyone got a good build for her?
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Probuilds is pretty depressing seeing her only in support...and losing a lot at that. (Krepo you can't play Morg, stop picking her plz)
If I glance at it and try to summarize, it looks like:
DShield/gold item du jour->Sightstone+next tier gold item+boots1->NLR->Zhonya's
Given her predilection for CDR as support, especially maxing Binding, I would imagine you could also try to get a Morello's. Most seem to abort out of AP after the Zhonya's to defense or if they do keep building, they go for Deathcap instead.
(I have no idea what her entry is)
I like start item-> sight stone/coin-> Mobo boots -> finish talisman -> zekes herald -> GA or BV -> doesn't matter.
The idea is that you want mobility for picks hp for tanking on a counter initiate ult and cdr to root everything forever. The extra ad and life steal on your carry (who is cc immune) is just icing.
Locket is also good.
Go for Zhonya's/AP: http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1289261984/19302712
Go for cdr/auras: http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1289394263/19602876
It may even just be schools of thought for what you want to do as a support. If you've got Morgana, I think you're all but obligated to want to go deep with Flash and land that perfect ult, which predicates the Zhonya's pick.
In other news I cut my hand up pretty bad yesterday so I won't be able to play for a week probably which makes me salty because I think I finally figured out how to push past my noob feeder teammates and hit challenger but now my mechanics are gonna rust up and I'll never be able to go pro like I deserve to