So uh yeah, the experiments with the squadron enabled strikecraft in HW1 remastered are turning out to be rather... interesting. Actually, it's turning out to be a complete and utter rout as squadrons of inties acting as a single unit are annihilating a numerically superior opponent because hey, concentrated fire works you know... And the faster you kill stuff, the less damage you take. Imagine that.
And that's not counting the auto-balancer freaking out because it only counts a single unit for that squad of 5 inties so where it sees 5 strikecraft, you see 25 inties. Does Not Compute. I pull into mission 5 with my standard number of forces and they only send one destroyer at me. The nerve! So I stole the carrier as well.
A few other things break as well if the 'stuff' isn't set up right. Docking damaged squads to anything that cannot build is a no-no as the squadron system expects to be able to build replacements and if it can't... permanent docking because it's expecting something it can't get and you can't abort the dock.
Battleships used to be able to repair strike craft on docking; they now don't.
So, I got to be thinking about what I disliked about Homeworld 1 and and 2, and it's this:
Heavy Cruisers/Battlecruisers pretty much ruin the game when they turn up.
The problem is they're intended as a hard counter to destroyers...but the frigates annihilate each other and are annihilated by destroyers super-easily, and cruisers have so many hitpoints that they're never seriously threatened by anything smaller then a destroyer.
IMO cruiser-classes needed to have their super-weapons severely limited in some way. Shields or mirror-armor or something which means they pretty much can't touch each other unless they're in direct combat, so frigate and strikecraft are more useful.
I haven't gotten far enough to deal with them in HW2 yet, but I don't think I killed a single heavy cruiser in the whole campaign.
Cost wise, it was always easier to capture them.
Since they're so slow, I mostly retire them afterwards, as they weren't gong to be able to keep up with my destroyers.
If you're actually fighting them, having a squad of bombers target the engines can be pretty useful (almost essential in the last mission, in my experience). If you want to fight them, you can then move your ships behind them to at least stay out of the way of the ion cannons.
(Another terrific example of salvage corvettes being OP: get just one connected to a ship, and it's stuck. It can still fire, but it won't move. So if you don't have enough corvettes to deal with an incoming force, split them up amongst all of them, and you can stop them in their tracks.)
Bombers are actually pretty good against heavy cruisers and destroyers in general, actually. Yes, you'll lose some, but they'll last longer than the larger ships, and possibly out-damage them overall.
I haven't gotten far enough to deal with them in HW2 yet, but I don't think I killed a single heavy cruiser in the whole campaign.
Cost wise, it was always easier to capture them.
Since they're so slow, I mostly retire them afterwards, as they weren't gong to be able to keep up with my destroyers.
If you're actually fighting them, having a squad of bombers target the engines can be pretty useful (almost essential in the last mission, in my experience). If you want to fight them, you can then move your ships behind them to at least stay out of the way of the ion cannons.
(Another terrific example of salvage corvettes being OP: get just one connected to a ship, and it's stuck. It can still fire, but it won't move. So if you don't have enough corvettes to deal with an incoming force, split them up amongst all of them, and you can stop them in their tracks.)
Bombers are actually pretty good against heavy cruisers and destroyers in general, actually. Yes, you'll lose some, but they'll last longer than the larger ships, and possibly out-damage them overall.
I may not remember much about playing Homeworld 2 all those years ago, but the two things that I do remember are 1) the soundtrack is amazing, and 2) my bomber squadrons carried me through the campaign and most vs. AI multiplayer matches.
| Origin/R*SC: Ein7919 | Battle.net: Erlkonig#1448 | XBL: Lexicanum | Steam: Der Erlkönig (the umlaut is important) |
Not sure what changed... this time it was SUPER easy. I don't feel like I did much different either. I am wondering if the latest updates they tweaked the asteroids a bit to make them more manageable.
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
bombers are the hard counter to cruisers
cruiser point defense weapons are pitiful.
just, pitiful.
that's why they have a hangar, to stick interceptors in.
a bunch of bombers will school a cruiser. they can even strip it of its big weapons first, then its engines, so its helpless and dead in the water
they send cruisers crying to their motherships
i imagine they chalk little cruiser icons underneath their cockpits.
you send a cruiser against anything without anti strike craft support you are sending thousands of men to their certain deaths
you monster
seriously you build a bunch of bombers and then when a cruiser rocks up you just send those bombers over and quietly bring a couple of harvesters over to be ready to pick up the pieces
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
i imagine they chalk little cruiser icons underneath their cockpits.
I would love a mod that actually adds kill silhouettes to ship models as they take out enemies.
"Nakaan! Why is your salvage corvette covered in black paint?"
"It's not actually covered sir, there's a patch back near the engines that hasn't been filled yet. If we can find another destroyer on the next jump, that should do it."
i imagine they chalk little cruiser icons underneath their cockpits.
I would love a mod that actually adds kill silhouettes to ship models as they take out enemies.
"Nakaan! Why is your salvage corvette covered in black paint?"
"It's not actually covered sir, there's a patch back near the engines that hasn't been filled yet. If we can find another destroyer on the next jump, that should do it."
Don't forget! It's a half mark for an assist! Whoever latches on first gets the full!
Not sure what changed... this time it was SUPER easy. I don't feel like I did much different either. I am wondering if the latest updates they tweaked the asteroids a bit to make them more manageable.
Not sure what changed... this time it was SUPER easy. I don't feel like I did much different either. I am wondering if the latest updates they tweaked the asteroids a bit to make them more manageable.
the patch "nerfed" the asteroids a lot. the mission is just a quick breather now.
I don't even know why that mission exists, it's just bad, easy or hard.
I never really liked it in the original, either.
It just seemed to be there as a breather between your first real fight with the Taidaan and their capital ships, and the fighter-based ass-kicking you were about to get from the Kadeshi.
In both versions, it went the same way; an initial mad panic to get my ships in order to kill the first rocks, then five minutes of boredom, killing everything the instant it got anywhere near once I'd established some breathing room.
I'm not sure how I'd redesign it to make it better, though.
also, loading Cataclysm and Hw1 original at 1080p made me realize how awesome the remaster actually looks.
Question, did you get them to actually properly scale up to 1080p? Because when I tried getting Cata up there, it was doing some horrible looking stretchy stuff with the UI and was still only outputting at 4:3, leaving the right side of the screen black.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Hrum, 98 compat just gave me crash on start, 95 loaded, but did the same stuff it did last time I tried. Screenshot for references.
Gonna try unsetting windowed mode in case that's somehow screwing with it. I guess for reference, what rendering mode are you using? I can't seem to get OpenGL to work, so I'm on d3d
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Destroyer weapons are too good against strike craft atm. The concentrated fire of a couple knocks out whole squadrons. They need to reduce the hit chance vs strike craft.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
NOTE: All in-game audio was mastered and intended to be heard at 100% volume – for optimal experience, we recommend setting all in-game volume sliders to 100%
Fixed an issue where Windows DPI scaling could cause the game to display in an unusable resolution
Increased size of anomaly pings to make them more readily visible
Restored disabled button states to campaign games
Added launcher text to indicate DLC download state
Addressed improper UV maps on some units
Various audio fixes
Various fixes to ships and weapons
Fixed weapon audio in Remastered versions to be faithful to classic versions
Added "reset video settings to default" function to the launcher
Addressed an issue where the screen could go black if an in-engine cut-scene is interrupted
Game now allows windowed resolution at full desktop size
Added OpenGL version check to launcher
Added more detailed error messaging
Homeworld 1 Remastered:
Mission 07 – Addressed an issue where the Kadeshi mothership could disappear
Mission 10 - Addressed an issue where the objective "Destroy All Enemy Forces" fails to complete
Fixed an issue where attempting to load an incompatible save would cause a loading screen to appear during gameplay
Fixed improper letterboxing in Mission 03 cinematic9
Addressed an issue where dust clouds and nebulae were not auto-collected by resource collectors
Mission 02 – Fixed an issue where the objective "Salvage the Khar-Selim" might not complete
Mission 06 – Adjusted asteroid field visuals and functionality to improve mission balance
Homeworld 2 Remastered:
Disabled resource collector research during tutorials
Multiplayer BETA:
Taiidan sensor array ping now functions in multiplayer matches
Increased multiplayer lobby limit to 8 players
Addressed an issue where multiplayer lobbies could get stuck in the "Connecting" dialog
Fixed an issue where multiple checkboxes could appear in certain dialogs
Addressed an issue where a player disconnecting from the game while in the lobby could cause the host to crash
Addressed an issue where clients could become stuck in the lobby when host gets disconnected
The game now checks for Beta opt-in status when inviting a friend
Added password icon to password-locked games in the server browser
Reduced kamikaze damage on the Vaygr Interceptor to be in-line with other fighters
Addressed a crash which could occur under certain circumstances when launching the game from a friend invite
Added new loading screens
Various stability improvements
Addressed a rare issue where games could become stuck on an infinite loading screen
Added server distance filter
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Mission 06 – Adjusted asteroid field visuals and functionality to improve mission balance
I think the change was some of the larger asteroids only need to be broken twice. I distinctly recall having to break them three times before the pieces were harmless, last time I played.
MuddBudd on
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Destroyer weapons are too good against strike craft atm. The concentrated fire of a couple knocks out whole squadrons. They need to reduce the hit chance vs strike craft.
Huh, I played loads of HW2 back in the day and in the original Destroyer point defense weapons did basically nothing, I felt to a fault since it made the game very strike craft oriented.
This sounds like it's very different from the original balance which is weird for a remastered.
I want to do some extensive testing with my brother but my plays against the AI suggest that destroyers are just too good. You can render the battleships useless with bombers easily. But destroyers will keep fighting till the bitter end.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
No hiigaran destroyers were always pretty good versus corvettes. They're a work horse ship. They're weak to bombers, but not corvettes. They get superceded by cruisers.
Look at the old wikis, they mention destroyers can deal with corvettes just fine.
Something I didn't know looking at these wikis, is that you can knock out their engines and then they can't change their axis to attack above or below, so you can send your frigates above or below to mutilate them with impunity.
Vaygr destroyers are all missile launchers, with shitty point defense guns. You blow up the missile launchers with bombers and they have basically nothing.
Morninglord on
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Corvettes is one thing. Fighters and bombers are another.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
So what hiigaran destroyers are wiping out bombers just as easily? That is weird.
Hiigaran ships were meant to be jack of all trades though, so if they're taking out a few with lucky shots that's not unusual. But if they're flat out wiping out a massed bomber attack then yes, that's a bit odd.
Vaygre are more specialised.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Something along the lines of 1 shot in 10 is a one hit wonder. Each volley is 4 shots.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
That sounds about right. They're meant to be more of a general workhorse unit that can't handle capitals. Vaygr destroyers are anti capital ship and anti frigate, but terrible at strike craft. Because vaygr have much better strike craft in general.
With its squared off nose and torpedo launchers in the place of old anchors, the Hiigaran Destroyer's hull looks just like a vintage World War I destroyer. Unfortunately, it doesn't come with Ion Beams as its predecessors once did, but it does come with an impressive battery of Heavy Kinetic Cannons, which, happily enough, can not only damage Capital craft, but can also pick off Corvettes and with enough crossfire, unlucky Fighters as well. Each turret lobs 535 points of harm a good 4500m, so a wall of Destroyers represents a substantial stream of continuous firepower, augmented with the occasional 3000 point Heavy Torpedo from each of their twin launchers. It has been nerfed against Subsystems: its turrets only inflict 30% damage. You'll hardly notice.
This is the Hiigaran's all purpose brawler - so take full advantage of it. Deploy it as the foundation stone for your forces. For its class, its light, fast, and, just like the Frigates, prone to getting battered and bruised a lot. But its tough hide is more than likely to see it outlive its escorts in many battles. It can repair itself, but very slowly: it has three "latch points" for a trio of Resource Collectors to augment repairs.
It has only one Innate Subsystem: its Engines, which can be easily immobilised by any organised foe with a few squads of Bombers. Fortunately, their weapons are unaffected until the bitter end and they will automatically repair themselves to become mobile again. Unlike all other Capital ships in the game, the Hiigaran Destroyer has absolutely no point defences, although the turrets will blow away an unlucky Fighter on occsaion. The Vaygr Destroyer outguns this thing with its big battery of four heavy missiles - but the Hiigaran Destroyer works as an "instant gratification" unit that can take on nearly every class of ship in the game, and while the Vaygr let off their missiles every twenty seconds, this warship is merrily plugging away all the time. Don't get too carried away though, for a sizeable Strikecraft force will bring down a Destroyer; and it can feel like its taking forever for all those turrets to batter their way through other Capital Warships - especially Battlecruisers.
Vs vaygr destroyer
This is definitely one of the more interesting ship designs in the game. The Vaygr Destroyer sports an asymmetric, V for Vaygr shaped cross-section and some of the sexiest texturing around. These solid warhorses deliver some serious blows, demolishing larger and slower targets. However, at the same time they are extremely vulnerable to shoals of smaller vessels and require escorts. They get four powerful Fusion Missiles, each delivering 2900 points of damage at 4500m range, and two massive twin Fletchette Turrets that fire 450 point slugs over the same distance. The turrets themselves are smaller than the Hiigaran Destroyer's, and have real problems hitting Strikecraft (1% accuracy!). Weight for weight, a Fusion Missile is only a tad weaker than the Hiigaran Destroyer's Torpedo Launcher. Overall though, the Vaygr Destroyer packs more punch - you just have to be a little patient with its missiles, reloading as they do once every 20 seconds in a big salvo. Their missiles also have difficulty chasing down fast fleeing targets like Resource Collectors. An don't bother aiming Fusion Missiles at Subsystems: they'll only do 20% damage.
This is definitely another Vaygr specialist, designed only for destroying targets Frigate sized and up, or removing those pesky Platforms blocking your fleet. Its just as likely to unload all its missiles against a target with one hit point left, wasting them all, as not; and Fusion Missiles don't acquire a fresh target if the first one dies prematurely. This ship does get some slightly above average point defences, but its still vulnerable to hijacking and can't really do much against massed Strikecraft except weather the storm and hope its armour holds long enough for the cavalry to show. Its armour, speed and build times are identical to the Hiigaran version. The Vaygr can get their Destroyer up a mite faster than the Hiigaran's, thanks to the easy access of their Capital Facility and single Research Module. Itt can repair itself, but very slowly: there are three "latch points" for a trio of Resource Collectors to augment repairs. Take advantage of them.
When a gang of these guys gets going, serious unhappiness quickly follows - provided there's some nice big chunky targets to dismember. Like the Hiigaran Destroyer, it has only one Innate Subsystem: its Engines. Vaygr Destroyers are easily nobbled by any cool headed foe with a brace of Bombers, although the Vaygr Destroyer feels like it recovers more quickly than the Hiigaran version. A little patience is required waiting for that impressive missile battery to fire: the Vaygr Destroyer will pummel most Capital ships quite nicely and completely smash through Frigates, but it lacks the instant response you get from a broadside of Hiigaran turrets. Nevertheless, those warheads will still fly even after the Destroyer's death.
doesn't sound like its changed.
apparently i was remembering the vaygr battlecruiser when i said you could take out its missiles. Looks like you couldn't do that to the destroyers.
Unlike hw1, 2 was highly asymmetrical design with a mixed fleet approach. So you can't directly compare with isolated tests. It tells you nothing about overall balance.
That website is really good btw, I was reading it last week and its got a lot of good analysis in it.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Yeah pretty much just don't go for frigates. They're big and slow enough to get hit by anything, and small enough to die immediately. I found in multiplayer matches (against AI or players) that frigates are in a weird spot where they're not cheap or fast enough (to be rushed) to be worth it pretty much ever. They have some niche support roles later, but if one side rushes frigates and the other rushes destroyers the timing window for the frigate player is extremely small, and he's in huge trouble once the destroyers start rolling out.
Assault frigates sure are bitching and look good on paper with their versatility. The game is still lopsided something awful once the other guy gets a destroyer out since it'll solo 5 frigates with ease. The shield frigate is clearly useful, and might be worth it lategame however.
I don't know if they have rebalanced the remastered version, but strikecraft is by comparison extremely good and it will pretty much always be better to have a heavy fighter/corvette fleet than one interspersed with frigates. Capitals become junk if you can defeat the opposing strike fleet, frigates get eaten alive by capitals.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
This is the reason capital phalanx has destroyers in front and frigates behind. Frigates are fire support, not front line attackers.
Using the frigate strike group because it looks the most similar to the old hw1 wall is how you get all your frigates blown the fuck away to little benefit. Destroyers are meant to soak up all the hits while the longer range torpedo frigates lay down firepower from afar or the ions sneak in and deliver a capital chewing punch.
Sending units like that in first is about as clever as rushing artillery as nod in command and conquer 95 or v2 launchers, or basically any c&c or red alert long range unit, without any tanks.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
If you already have destroyer tech, why would you backtech to torpedo frigates? If you are maxed out on destroyers and somehow isn't crushing your opponent, he will have a battlecruiser when your perfect frigate support wing is complete*. This is also true if you have too much cash or if you're pop capped, why haven't you won already/why aren't you dumping loads of cash on carriers/research/BCs. Frigates aint gonna dominate lategame.
Single player you can do whatever, of course frigates are useful and can be used more or less effectively in fleet vs fleet combat. In multiplayer they just don't fit very well into a build.
Now it was a very long time since I was ontop of my HW2 game and I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm pretty sure ion frigates have about the same range as destroyers. How would you sneak them in? Any human players would spot and target the frigates immediately since they're such glass cannons. The only real defense is having shield frigates and a tough shield of flak frigates, but by then you have spent all your advanced research and cash on a big frigate army and you will be eaten up by a capital fleet.
*The exception is building shield frigates to counter the eventual Vaygr BC, which theoretically could work. You might also just get your destroyer fleet exploded to tiny bits by the massive cannon and/or overwhelmed by missiles anyway. Unless you are way behind getting your own BC is likely the better answer still.
Edit: I suppose you could be in a position where you simply have so much money in a multiplayer game that you have to dump it into some kind of pop cap. I don't find that happens very often in HW2 though because of hyperspace modules and its counters, which are both very expensive and powerful. In short there's generally little stopping you from mounting decisive attacks if you're dominating your opponent resource-wise.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited March 2015
I was supporting your argument there, not arguing against you. That all fits in "niche support role" to me. I was just expanding on your logic.
Like, I even pointed out how dumb it is to mass frigates without tanks (destroyers) with an analogy. It isn't really a good idea to mass any support unit in the multiplayer of c&c or RA games either. Human players will just rush past your tanks and focus fire them immediately.
Like you said, they do have value in singleplayer games and they can be used badly in singleplayer too. Mostly by using them as a front line force when that isn't their job. That's the context for the ion cannon example.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I'm still stuck on Homeworld 2 Mission 4. After maxing out my fighters, and cranking out more Pulsar Corvettes and Flak Frigates, I finally took care of the first of three asteroids.
However, I sent three Marine Frigates to capture the Carrier, they approached it, the blue meter reached full and...nothing. The Marine Frigates just sat there while the Carrier remained an enemy. Commanding the Marines to capture it gives an audible response that they will do so, but they just sit there surrounding the Carrier. What's going on here?
I'm still stuck on Homeworld 2 Mission 4. After maxing out my fighters, and cranking out more Pulsar Corvettes and Flak Frigates, I finally took care of the first of three asteroids.
However, I sent three Marine Frigates to capture the Carrier, they approached it, the blue meter reached full and...nothing. The Marine Frigates just sat there while the Carrier remained an enemy. Commanding the Marines to capture it gives an audible response that they will do so, but they just sit there surrounding the Carrier. What's going on here?
Have you already filled your unit cap on carriers? I think HW2 kept you from capturing ships if they went over the unit cap.
I'm still stuck on Homeworld 2 Mission 4. After maxing out my fighters, and cranking out more Pulsar Corvettes and Flak Frigates, I finally took care of the first of three asteroids.
However, I sent three Marine Frigates to capture the Carrier, they approached it, the blue meter reached full and...nothing. The Marine Frigates just sat there while the Carrier remained an enemy. Commanding the Marines to capture it gives an audible response that they will do so, but they just sit there surrounding the Carrier. What's going on here?
Have you already filled your unit cap on carriers? I think HW2 kept you from capturing ships if they went over the unit cap.
No, I only have the carrier handed to you from the story.
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Battleships used to be able to repair strike craft on docking; they now don't.
At least I made Cataclysm run at 1080p
turn off anti aliasing to see the dust clouds
Heavy Cruisers/Battlecruisers pretty much ruin the game when they turn up.
The problem is they're intended as a hard counter to destroyers...but the frigates annihilate each other and are annihilated by destroyers super-easily, and cruisers have so many hitpoints that they're never seriously threatened by anything smaller then a destroyer.
IMO cruiser-classes needed to have their super-weapons severely limited in some way. Shields or mirror-armor or something which means they pretty much can't touch each other unless they're in direct combat, so frigate and strikecraft are more useful.
Cost wise, it was always easier to capture them.
Since they're so slow, I mostly retire them afterwards, as they weren't gong to be able to keep up with my destroyers.
If you're actually fighting them, having a squad of bombers target the engines can be pretty useful (almost essential in the last mission, in my experience). If you want to fight them, you can then move your ships behind them to at least stay out of the way of the ion cannons.
(Another terrific example of salvage corvettes being OP: get just one connected to a ship, and it's stuck. It can still fire, but it won't move. So if you don't have enough corvettes to deal with an incoming force, split them up amongst all of them, and you can stop them in their tracks.)
Bombers are actually pretty good against heavy cruisers and destroyers in general, actually. Yes, you'll lose some, but they'll last longer than the larger ships, and possibly out-damage them overall.
I may not remember much about playing Homeworld 2 all those years ago, but the two things that I do remember are 1) the soundtrack is amazing, and 2) my bomber squadrons carried me through the campaign and most vs. AI multiplayer matches.
Not sure what changed... this time it was SUPER easy. I don't feel like I did much different either. I am wondering if the latest updates they tweaked the asteroids a bit to make them more manageable.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
cruiser point defense weapons are pitiful.
just, pitiful.
that's why they have a hangar, to stick interceptors in.
a bunch of bombers will school a cruiser. they can even strip it of its big weapons first, then its engines, so its helpless and dead in the water
they send cruisers crying to their motherships
i imagine they chalk little cruiser icons underneath their cockpits.
you send a cruiser against anything without anti strike craft support you are sending thousands of men to their certain deaths
you monster
seriously you build a bunch of bombers and then when a cruiser rocks up you just send those bombers over and quietly bring a couple of harvesters over to be ready to pick up the pieces
"Nakaan! Why is your salvage corvette covered in black paint?"
"It's not actually covered sir, there's a patch back near the engines that hasn't been filled yet. If we can find another destroyer on the next jump, that should do it."
Don't forget! It's a half mark for an assist! Whoever latches on first gets the full!
I don't even know why that mission exists, it's just bad, easy or hard.
It just seemed to be there as a breather between your first real fight with the Taidaan and their capital ships, and the fighter-based ass-kicking you were about to get from the Kadeshi.
In both versions, it went the same way; an initial mad panic to get my ships in order to kill the first rocks, then five minutes of boredom, killing everything the instant it got anywhere near once I'd established some breathing room.
I'm not sure how I'd redesign it to make it better, though.
Armchair: 4098-3704-2012
Question, did you get them to actually properly scale up to 1080p? Because when I tried getting Cata up there, it was doing some horrible looking stretchy stuff with the UI and was still only outputting at 4:3, leaving the right side of the screen black.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
I set the compatibility to Win 95 or 98, and always run as admin.
Gonna try unsetting windowed mode in case that's somehow screwing with it. I guess for reference, what rendering mode are you using? I can't seem to get OpenGL to work, so I'm on d3d
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
I think the change was some of the larger asteroids only need to be broken twice. I distinctly recall having to break them three times before the pieces were harmless, last time I played.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
didn't work :bigfrown:
This is my game with EVERYTHING off or minimum:
No clouds, just the occasional pebble.
i can't see them in normal view, they show up in sensor manager as a kind of road of debri and small dust clouds
Huh, I played loads of HW2 back in the day and in the original Destroyer point defense weapons did basically nothing, I felt to a fault since it made the game very strike craft oriented.
This sounds like it's very different from the original balance which is weird for a remastered.
Look at the old wikis, they mention destroyers can deal with corvettes just fine.
Something I didn't know looking at these wikis, is that you can knock out their engines and then they can't change their axis to attack above or below, so you can send your frigates above or below to mutilate them with impunity.
Vaygr destroyers are all missile launchers, with shitty point defense guns. You blow up the missile launchers with bombers and they have basically nothing.
Hiigaran ships were meant to be jack of all trades though, so if they're taking out a few with lucky shots that's not unusual. But if they're flat out wiping out a massed bomber attack then yes, that's a bit odd.
Vaygre are more specialised.
Check it.
http://www.rakrent.com/rtsc/html/hwii5.htm
Vs vaygr destroyer
doesn't sound like its changed.
apparently i was remembering the vaygr battlecruiser when i said you could take out its missiles. Looks like you couldn't do that to the destroyers.
Unlike hw1, 2 was highly asymmetrical design with a mixed fleet approach. So you can't directly compare with isolated tests. It tells you nothing about overall balance.
That website is really good btw, I was reading it last week and its got a lot of good analysis in it.
Assault frigates sure are bitching and look good on paper with their versatility. The game is still lopsided something awful once the other guy gets a destroyer out since it'll solo 5 frigates with ease. The shield frigate is clearly useful, and might be worth it lategame however.
I don't know if they have rebalanced the remastered version, but strikecraft is by comparison extremely good and it will pretty much always be better to have a heavy fighter/corvette fleet than one interspersed with frigates. Capitals become junk if you can defeat the opposing strike fleet, frigates get eaten alive by capitals.
Using the frigate strike group because it looks the most similar to the old hw1 wall is how you get all your frigates blown the fuck away to little benefit. Destroyers are meant to soak up all the hits while the longer range torpedo frigates lay down firepower from afar or the ions sneak in and deliver a capital chewing punch.
Sending units like that in first is about as clever as rushing artillery as nod in command and conquer 95 or v2 launchers, or basically any c&c or red alert long range unit, without any tanks.
Single player you can do whatever, of course frigates are useful and can be used more or less effectively in fleet vs fleet combat. In multiplayer they just don't fit very well into a build.
Now it was a very long time since I was ontop of my HW2 game and I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm pretty sure ion frigates have about the same range as destroyers. How would you sneak them in? Any human players would spot and target the frigates immediately since they're such glass cannons. The only real defense is having shield frigates and a tough shield of flak frigates, but by then you have spent all your advanced research and cash on a big frigate army and you will be eaten up by a capital fleet.
*The exception is building shield frigates to counter the eventual Vaygr BC, which theoretically could work. You might also just get your destroyer fleet exploded to tiny bits by the massive cannon and/or overwhelmed by missiles anyway. Unless you are way behind getting your own BC is likely the better answer still.
Edit: I suppose you could be in a position where you simply have so much money in a multiplayer game that you have to dump it into some kind of pop cap. I don't find that happens very often in HW2 though because of hyperspace modules and its counters, which are both very expensive and powerful. In short there's generally little stopping you from mounting decisive attacks if you're dominating your opponent resource-wise.
Like, I even pointed out how dumb it is to mass frigates without tanks (destroyers) with an analogy. It isn't really a good idea to mass any support unit in the multiplayer of c&c or RA games either. Human players will just rush past your tanks and focus fire them immediately.
Like you said, they do have value in singleplayer games and they can be used badly in singleplayer too. Mostly by using them as a front line force when that isn't their job. That's the context for the ion cannon example.
However, I sent three Marine Frigates to capture the Carrier, they approached it, the blue meter reached full and...nothing. The Marine Frigates just sat there while the Carrier remained an enemy. Commanding the Marines to capture it gives an audible response that they will do so, but they just sit there surrounding the Carrier. What's going on here?
Have you already filled your unit cap on carriers? I think HW2 kept you from capturing ships if they went over the unit cap.
No, I only have the carrier handed to you from the story.
Oh well, on to Homeworld 2!
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