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[Agents of Shield] Thread is under quarantine for potential Captain America 2 spoilers!

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Posts

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Just got back from seeing The Winter Soldier and uh....I cannot wait for Tuesday.

    CAPTAIN AMERICA 2 SPOILERS
    So Shield let loose all their secrets? Including whatever the hell that blue thing was in the cabinet? Is the show going to still be called Agents of SHIELD? And I'm definitely wondering if the Clairvoyant is somehow related to Ultron with all the AI uploading stuff. Or Scarlet Witch! Doctor Strange? EXCITEMENT. Also sad that Sitwell was Hydra. Hilarious that the guy that told Tony Stark "Fuck You" was too though.

    The movie was great, go see it.
    in order
    1) I definitely thought of the Rising Tide when Romanov said "it's trending"
    2) the blue thing was not, necessarily, classified by SHIELD as anything. The base's location was in the files, encrypted; and accessing the base would require digging through a mountain of rubble
    3) shows don't, generally, change their name mid-run. Have never seen an example of that. I could see Coulson and his team re-creating SHIELD from the ground up.
    4) Clairvoyant = Algorithm = Ultron is a reasonable guess. I'm not sure if I'd put any money on it, but I've seen it floated in several places
    5) skipping Scarlet Witch, Doctor Strange, and Sitwell ...
    6) I don't know remember anyone saying "fuck" in the mcu, let alone directed at Tony.

    GONG-00
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Tamin wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Just got back from seeing The Winter Soldier and uh....I cannot wait for Tuesday.

    CAPTAIN AMERICA 2 SPOILERS
    So Shield let loose all their secrets? Including whatever the hell that blue thing was in the cabinet? Is the show going to still be called Agents of SHIELD? And I'm definitely wondering if the Clairvoyant is somehow related to Ultron with all the AI uploading stuff. Or Scarlet Witch! Doctor Strange? EXCITEMENT. Also sad that Sitwell was Hydra. Hilarious that the guy that told Tony Stark "Fuck You" was too though.

    The movie was great, go see it.
    in order
    1) I definitely thought of the Rising Tide when Romanov said "it's trending"
    2) the blue thing was not, necessarily, classified by SHIELD as anything. The base's location was in the files, encrypted; and accessing the base would require digging through a mountain of rubble
    3) shows don't, generally, change their name mid-run. Have never seen an example of that. I could see Coulson and his team re-creating SHIELD from the ground up.
    4) Clairvoyant = Algorithm = Ultron is a reasonable guess. I'm not sure if I'd put any money on it, but I've seen it floated in several places
    5) skipping Scarlet Witch, Doctor Strange, and Sitwell ...
    6) I don't know remember anyone saying "fuck" in the mcu, let alone directed at Tony.

    For some reason it is impossible to find a clip.
    In Iron Man 2, Senator Stern says "Fuck you Mr. Stark. Fuck you buddy." It bleeps it, but he says it. Right at the end, after Tony hacks all the monitors in the room

    Oh, I also got a trailer for Tuesday's episode in front of the movie.
    Agents of Shield UPRISING it said. And a lot of "IT WILL SHATTER THE MCU!" kinda stuff. So I'm psyched.

    Twitch Streaming W/TH/F and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Sometimes, I make YouTube videos
    Harry DresdenNocren
  • klemmingklemming regular Registered User regular
    I wonder how much the show is going to reference what happened in Cap 2. Previous films they've kind of skirted around, and avoided giving too much away, which is good when the majority of your audience probably hasn't surged out to see the latest movie on the weekend it came out. Nothing is specifically linked to Iron Man 3 (they mention something from it, but don't say enough that someone who hasn't seen the film would know what it's from), and when I missed seeing Thor 2, all I knew before buying the DVD was that a spaceship was going to hit London (which I'd probably know from the trailers, if I'd seen any).
    But Cap 2 is going to be way too relevant for them to keep the major reveals under wraps (and I'm not talking about the Winter Soldiers Identity).

    (Cap 2 spoilers):
    Presumably the name SHIELD is going to stick around in some form, but as an organisation, they're screwed. Even if the team checks out as all non-HYDRA, the name of the surprise antagonist organisation is going to have to be used unless they do some very obvious writing around it.
    Fury is going to be officially dead (unless he contacts the team for some help in taking down HYDRA cells? I doubt they'd do that, but I'd be all for it), and the team is going to face a lot of hostility the next time they land somewhere and start asking questions about whatever's going on. Pretty much any country.

    It does help to reinforce the shows growing theme of trust in the system vs questioning orders, though. Things only escalated to this point because the people higher up were giving the bad orders, and the people lower down trusted them enough to obey without question, or without more than a token resistance. "Why are we hunting a legendary hero with apparent intent to kill?" "He may not have told the truth." "Oh, okay." Coulsons' recent record of not doing that is probably going to help him with whatever scrutiny is coming his way.

    Does anyone know how much co-operation there is between the show and the movies? The script for Cap 2 had to have been finished when they started the show, did they know what was going to happen and start writing around that from the beginning? Did they get to have any influence on the story to help set up future show plots?

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • XeddicusXeddicus regular Registered User regular
    I see I now have to catch up to Cap 2 after getting to the last episode...but going with the episode for now:

    Hand at the end:
    Technically she said "Take out" not "kill" so she may have non-lethal intent. Flimsy, but she also didn't just crash the plane which she could clearly do. So...
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    So SHIELD basically has the authority to
    violate people's rights in their search for people with super powers, supersede the authority of the nation that person is a citizen of, and monitor that person for the rest of their life?

    Yeah, SHIELD totally deserves to be destroyed and anyone who went along with their policies should be taken down.

    "Shield sees the world for what it is, not what we'd like it to be" - Fury

    That nails it. All the ideal reasons against Shield don't stand up to the reality of its need.

    Ward:
    Was the only one thinking clearly. What if there WAS traps/etc. Everyone dies. The clairvoyant killed that guy if he was innocent. Collateral damage. It's not like they were flying along a city taking pot shots at people for kicks.

    And they've been setting up Skye/Ward from the start. Anything else is out of left field.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    skeldare wrote: »
    FitzSkymmons. That lucky monkey!

    Three way between Fitz, Simmons and Skye. And with a monkey watching from the corner.

    Well, who else is going to hold the camera

    newSig.jpg
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Nocren wrote: »
    skeldare wrote: »
    FitzSkymmons. That lucky monkey!

    Three way between Fitz, Simmons and Skye. And with a monkey watching from the corner.

    Well, who else is going to hold the camera
    Well, May is already secretly recording the thing.

    The only question is whether or not the monkey works just for Fitz, or if it's a double agent working for May too.

    I sometimes post pretty pictures to twitter: https://twitter.com/matthewandworld
  • klemmingklemming regular Registered User regular
    May just thinks the monkey's working for her. It's actually in charge.
    Agents of M.O.N.K.E.Y.? (Can anyone come up with a good acronym? Something Fitz could suggest if they go for a name change?)

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    May just thinks the monkey's working for her. It's actually in charge.
    Agents of M.O.N.K.E.Y.? (Can anyone come up with a good acronym? Something Fitz could suggest if they go for a name change?)

    Mammal that Obsessively Needs to Kill Ymir.

    I sometimes post pretty pictures to twitter: https://twitter.com/matthewandworld
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    May just thinks the monkey's working for her. It's actually in charge.
    Agents of M.O.N.K.E.Y.? (Can anyone come up with a good acronym? Something Fitz could suggest if they go for a name change?)

    Mammal that Obsessively Needs to Kill Everyone, like, Yesterday.

    ShadowhopeHarry DresdenSeidkonaJoolanderchiasaur11GONG-00
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Shadowhope wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    May just thinks the monkey's working for her. It's actually in charge.
    Agents of M.O.N.K.E.Y.? (Can anyone come up with a good acronym? Something Fitz could suggest if they go for a name change?)

    Mammal that Obsessively Needs to Kill Everyone, like, Yesterday.

    You win.

    I sometimes post pretty pictures to twitter: https://twitter.com/matthewandworld
    Nocren
  • klemmingklemming regular Registered User regular
    Monkey Organism Designed Only for Killing.
    New character origin!

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    Wraith260SeidkonaShadowenKamar
  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    It was suggested by a fellow PAer to warn of potential Cap 2 spoilers in the thread title. I think that's a great idea.

    But please guys, not everyone will get to see the movie this weekend, and even though the events will likely have a huge effect on the show, let's try and be careful for others sake.

    3DS Friend Code - 1032-1293-2997
    Nintendo Network ID - Brainiac_8
    PSN - Brainiac_8
    Steam - http://steamcommunity.com/id/BRAINIAC8/
    Add me!
    Giggles_Funswortha5ehren
  • Giggles_FunsworthGiggles_Funsworth Paranoiac Bay Area SprawlRegistered User regular
    I've stayed up most the night reading about PCI, HIPAA, and SOX compliance for a job interview this morning. After that I am free to see Captain America 2 and will be able to click all these danged spoilers.

    jdarksunTox
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden regular Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Ward:
    Was the only one thinking clearly. What if there WAS traps/etc. Everyone dies. The clairvoyant killed that guy if he was innocent. Collateral damage. It's not like they were flying along a city taking pot shots at people for kicks.
    There weren't any traps and if there were that wasn't a good reason to shoot a paralyzed criminal for being a dick. Ward has no authority executing prisoners, that was cold blooded murder. It's not like the Clairvoyant was going for a gun. Clairvoyant wasn't collateral damage, that'd be killing him in a fire fight - not shooting a paralyzed person sitting in a chair who posed no physical threat to anybody.
    And they've been setting up Skye/Ward from the start. Anything else is out of left field.

    Agreed.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic regular Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Ward:
    Was the only one thinking clearly. What if there WAS traps/etc. Everyone dies. The clairvoyant killed that guy if he was innocent. Collateral damage. It's not like they were flying along a city taking pot shots at people for kicks.
    There weren't any traps and if there were that wasn't a good reason to shoot a paralyzed criminal for being a dick. Ward has no authority executing prisoners, that was cold blooded murder. It's not like the Clairvoyant was going for a gun. Clairvoyant wasn't collateral damage, that'd be killing him in a fire fight - not shooting a paralyzed person sitting in a chair who posed no physical threat to anybody.
    The shooting was certainly over the line but... if you have a guy who can accurately predict what people will do in response to a certain stimulation...that's essentially mind control. You don't fucking let him talk to you. Also raises questions regarding Ward's ultimate culpability but that goes deep into philosophical shit I'm not going to drag into the thread.

    Penumbra
  • SeidkonaSeidkona Goddess with a blade Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    On Ward:
    Unless Ward WAS ordered by the clairvoyant to kill the guy. . . I don't think that should be ruled out too easily.

    Seidkona on
    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
  • Lou29Lou29 regular Registered User regular
    I'm having trouble reconciling it with Centipede existing, but with everything that was said in Cap 2 about
    Zola, wasn't he essentially the same thing as the Clairvoyant? I'm pretty sure his description of himself was the exact same speech Skye made at the end of the last episode about it being something that based its predictions off of psych files and evaluations. Also, I'm on board with whoever it was that said Garret is going to turn on the team. My bet is that he's got the same eyeball implant as the other hostages we've seen. His back and forth with Skye just seemed... off to me, for some reason, and his conversation with Coulson in the car screams "there's something wrong with me, my memory isn't this crappy, please notice these obvious mistakes I'm making and help me."

    SeidkonaHarry DresdenGONG-00
  • klemmingklemming regular Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Ward:
    Was the only one thinking clearly. What if there WAS traps/etc. Everyone dies. The clairvoyant killed that guy if he was innocent. Collateral damage. It's not like they were flying along a city taking pot shots at people for kicks.
    There weren't any traps and if there were that wasn't a good reason to shoot a paralyzed criminal for being a dick. Ward has no authority executing prisoners, that was cold blooded murder. It's not like the Clairvoyant was going for a gun. Clairvoyant wasn't collateral damage, that'd be killing him in a fire fight - not shooting a paralyzed person sitting in a chair who posed no physical threat to anybody.
    The shooting was certainly over the line but... if you have a guy who can accurately predict what people will do in response to a certain stimulation...that's essentially mind control. You don't fucking let him talk to you. Also raises questions regarding Ward's ultimate culpability but that goes deep into philosophical shit I'm not going to drag into the thread.
    If it was just a matter of shutting him up, ripping the wires off his head would have done the trick. Or shooting him with an icer (is that that the right spelling?). Or shooting the speaker. And if you use the argument 'those could have been boody-trapped', well, so could he. I doubt a deadman switch linked to a heartbeat monitor would be beyond plausibility.

    What Ward did is understandable, but not rationally justifiable.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Ward:
    Was the only one thinking clearly. What if there WAS traps/etc. Everyone dies. The clairvoyant killed that guy if he was innocent. Collateral damage. It's not like they were flying along a city taking pot shots at people for kicks.
    There weren't any traps and if there were that wasn't a good reason to shoot a paralyzed criminal for being a dick. Ward has no authority executing prisoners, that was cold blooded murder. It's not like the Clairvoyant was going for a gun. Clairvoyant wasn't collateral damage, that'd be killing him in a fire fight - not shooting a paralyzed person sitting in a chair who posed no physical threat to anybody.
    The shooting was certainly over the line but... if you have a guy who can accurately predict what people will do in response to a certain stimulation...that's essentially mind control. You don't fucking let him talk to you. Also raises questions regarding Ward's ultimate culpability but that goes deep into philosophical shit I'm not going to drag into the thread.
    The show hasn't confirmed the Clairvoyant is really psychic. We don't even know if the guy they captured was the Clairvoyant.

    Harry Dresden on
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic regular Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Ward:
    Was the only one thinking clearly. What if there WAS traps/etc. Everyone dies. The clairvoyant killed that guy if he was innocent. Collateral damage. It's not like they were flying along a city taking pot shots at people for kicks.
    There weren't any traps and if there were that wasn't a good reason to shoot a paralyzed criminal for being a dick. Ward has no authority executing prisoners, that was cold blooded murder. It's not like the Clairvoyant was going for a gun. Clairvoyant wasn't collateral damage, that'd be killing him in a fire fight - not shooting a paralyzed person sitting in a chair who posed no physical threat to anybody.
    The shooting was certainly over the line but... if you have a guy who can accurately predict what people will do in response to a certain stimulation...that's essentially mind control. You don't fucking let him talk to you. Also raises questions regarding Ward's ultimate culpability but that goes deep into philosophical shit I'm not going to drag into the thread.
    If it was just a matter of shutting him up, ripping the wires off his head would have done the trick. Or shooting him with an icer (is that that the right spelling?). Or shooting the speaker. And if you use the argument 'those could have been boody-trapped', well, so could he. I doubt a deadman switch linked to a heartbeat monitor would be beyond plausibility.

    What Ward did is understandable, but not rationally justifiable.
    Yes and no. That would have removed the immediate threat to those present it wouldn't stop the much larger threat that the Clairvoyant poses. Do you think SHIELD is really going to put him somewhere and not ask him questions? Not watch him? If he's allowed to give you any input at all he is a colossal threat to everyone. Inside SHIELD with a bunch of people with super weapons is practically right where he'd love to be to do the most damage.

  • klemmingklemming regular Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Ward:
    Was the only one thinking clearly. What if there WAS traps/etc. Everyone dies. The clairvoyant killed that guy if he was innocent. Collateral damage. It's not like they were flying along a city taking pot shots at people for kicks.
    There weren't any traps and if there were that wasn't a good reason to shoot a paralyzed criminal for being a dick. Ward has no authority executing prisoners, that was cold blooded murder. It's not like the Clairvoyant was going for a gun. Clairvoyant wasn't collateral damage, that'd be killing him in a fire fight - not shooting a paralyzed person sitting in a chair who posed no physical threat to anybody.
    The shooting was certainly over the line but... if you have a guy who can accurately predict what people will do in response to a certain stimulation...that's essentially mind control. You don't fucking let him talk to you. Also raises questions regarding Ward's ultimate culpability but that goes deep into philosophical shit I'm not going to drag into the thread.
    If it was just a matter of shutting him up, ripping the wires off his head would have done the trick. Or shooting him with an icer (is that that the right spelling?). Or shooting the speaker. And if you use the argument 'those could have been boody-trapped', well, so could he. I doubt a deadman switch linked to a heartbeat monitor would be beyond plausibility.

    What Ward did is understandable, but not rationally justifiable.
    Yes and no. That would have removed the immediate threat to those present it wouldn't stop the much larger threat that the Clairvoyant poses. Do you think SHIELD is really going to put him somewhere and not ask him questions? Not watch him? If he's allowed to give you any input at all he is a colossal threat to everyone. Inside SHIELD with a bunch of people with super weapons is practically right where he'd love to be to do the most damage.
    What they do to contain him is not the immediate issue, but (if Nash were the Clairvoyant, and I'm backing Coulsons theory that he wasn't), what threat would he pose? With no 'voice', no means to communicate, and completely reliant on his jailers to keep him alive, he wouldn't be able to do anything at all. Maybe he can see the future and knows the Presidents nuclear launch codes. That information is in his head, but SHIELD would have effectively locked it in there.
    And because they would know the threat he would pose, that's what they'd do; leave him in a facility with strict orders not to communicate with him in any way. If they wanted to get sci-fi, have him looked after by automated robots.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    As stated in the last episode...
    ...Nash supposedly had the power to mentally influence people around him. Dude doesn't need a voice to do that, he could just (theoretically) subvert the will of his jailers over time.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • klemmingklemming regular Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    As stated in the last episode...
    ...Nash supposedly had the power to mentally influence people around him. Dude doesn't need a voice to do that, he could just (theoretically) subvert the will of his jailers over time.
    When did they say that? I thought he convinced them to do what he said by basically predicting things and being right, basically selling them on the whole 'destiny' thing.
    If you mean the 'program' Nash was part of, Skye specifically says that he couldn't influence people (though that was the goal of the program), but he could on occasion predict them.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic regular Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Ward:
    Was the only one thinking clearly. What if there WAS traps/etc. Everyone dies. The clairvoyant killed that guy if he was innocent. Collateral damage. It's not like they were flying along a city taking pot shots at people for kicks.
    There weren't any traps and if there were that wasn't a good reason to shoot a paralyzed criminal for being a dick. Ward has no authority executing prisoners, that was cold blooded murder. It's not like the Clairvoyant was going for a gun. Clairvoyant wasn't collateral damage, that'd be killing him in a fire fight - not shooting a paralyzed person sitting in a chair who posed no physical threat to anybody.
    The shooting was certainly over the line but... if you have a guy who can accurately predict what people will do in response to a certain stimulation...that's essentially mind control. You don't fucking let him talk to you. Also raises questions regarding Ward's ultimate culpability but that goes deep into philosophical shit I'm not going to drag into the thread.
    If it was just a matter of shutting him up, ripping the wires off his head would have done the trick. Or shooting him with an icer (is that that the right spelling?). Or shooting the speaker. And if you use the argument 'those could have been boody-trapped', well, so could he. I doubt a deadman switch linked to a heartbeat monitor would be beyond plausibility.

    What Ward did is understandable, but not rationally justifiable.
    Yes and no. That would have removed the immediate threat to those present it wouldn't stop the much larger threat that the Clairvoyant poses. Do you think SHIELD is really going to put him somewhere and not ask him questions? Not watch him? If he's allowed to give you any input at all he is a colossal threat to everyone. Inside SHIELD with a bunch of people with super weapons is practically right where he'd love to be to do the most damage.
    What they do to contain him is not the immediate issue, but (if Nash were the Clairvoyant, and I'm backing Coulsons theory that he wasn't), what threat would he pose? With no 'voice', no means to communicate, and completely reliant on his jailers to keep him alive, he wouldn't be able to do anything at all. Maybe he can see the future and knows the Presidents nuclear launch codes. That information is in his head, but SHIELD would have effectively locked it in there.
    And because they would know the threat he would pose, that's what they'd do; leave him in a facility with strict orders not to communicate with him in any way. If they wanted to get sci-fi, have him looked after by automated robots.
    I'm not sure being locked in complete and total isolation as a paraplegic is really a step up from death. I also think the issue is SHIELD won't do that. They have too many questions and would want to co-opt his ability for their own use. Any form of communication from this guy is super dangerous.

    It's not formally Ward's decision to make by any means but the whole talk later on in the episode emphasizes that he's trained to make those calls.

    Though personally I still think he was de facto mind controlled by the real clairvoyant with that speech that was given designed to push all his buttons.

  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    As stated in the last episode...
    ...Nash supposedly had the power to mentally influence people around him. Dude doesn't need a voice to do that, he could just (theoretically) subvert the will of his jailers over time.
    When did they say that? I thought he convinced them to do what he said by basically predicting things and being right, basically selling them on the whole 'destiny' thing.
    If you mean the 'program' Nash was part of, Skye specifically says that he couldn't influence people (though that was the goal of the program), but he could on occasion predict them.
    I thought one of those guys could influence the people around them.

  • klemmingklemming regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    jdarksun wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    As stated in the last episode...
    ...Nash supposedly had the power to mentally influence people around him. Dude doesn't need a voice to do that, he could just (theoretically) subvert the will of his jailers over time.
    When did they say that? I thought he convinced them to do what he said by basically predicting things and being right, basically selling them on the whole 'destiny' thing.
    If you mean the 'program' Nash was part of, Skye specifically says that he couldn't influence people (though that was the goal of the program), but he could on occasion predict them.
    I thought one of those guys could influence the people around them.
    I may be remembering it wrong, but I think Skye said they were looking for someone who could do that, but didn't find any. Nash's predictions seemed to be the closest they got.
    Of course, this is all moot if the real Clairvoyant is just a high-level SHIELD agent, who could easily have planted the name of a random quadrapalegic in the List so he'd get picked out, and stage the Clairvoyants 'death'. The whole story could have just been added in by the mole.
    My money's on Bill Paxton turning out to be a very bad man.

    klemming on
    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    Harry Dresden
  • HounHoun regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    klemming wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    klemming wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    As stated in the last episode...
    ...Nash supposedly had the power to mentally influence people around him. Dude doesn't need a voice to do that, he could just (theoretically) subvert the will of his jailers over time.
    When did they say that? I thought he convinced them to do what he said by basically predicting things and being right, basically selling them on the whole 'destiny' thing.
    If you mean the 'program' Nash was part of, Skye specifically says that he couldn't influence people (though that was the goal of the program), but he could on occasion predict them.
    I thought one of those guys could influence the people around them.
    I may be remembering it wrong, but I think Skye said they were looking for someone who could do that, but didn't find any. Nash's predictions seemed to be the closest they got.
    Of course, this is all moot if the real Clairvoyant is just a high-level SHIELD agent, who could easily have planted the name of a random quadrapalegic in the List so he'd get picked out, and stage the Clairvoyants 'death'. The whole story could have just been added in by the mole.
    My money's on Bill Paxton turning out to be a very bad man.

    You are not remembering it wrong.

    *edit*
    Also, on the Clairvoyant:
    We're assuming it's a high-level SHIELD agent, but really, it just has to be someone with access to SHIELD's files. Tony Stark hacked in. Skye's hacked in. It probably IS someone in SHIELD, but it doesn't HAVE to be.

    Ergo, the Red Tide is a network of hackers unknowingly providing information and backdoors into secure data repositories for a prototype Ultron that was created when a broken JARVIS from Iron Man 3 encountered secret AI research accessible to it via the link opened when Tony Stark hacked the Helicarrier in Avengers. :rotate:

    Houn on
  • Grunt's GhostsGrunt's Ghosts regular Registered User regular
    On Ward:
    The whole thing will be swept under the rug since Hand and Cap 2 events seem to be happening at the same time. Ward will never see a review board. Never.

    mxmarks
  • ElJeffeElJeffe mod Moderator, ClubPA mod
    A note about Cap2:

    Discussing some spoilers regarding Cap2 is unavoidable in a show tied directly into those events, so there will be no blanket "No Cap2 Discussion" rule in here. However, please try to keep discussion of Cap2 within the narrow confines of stuff directly related to Agents of SHIELD. I have no way of knowing if this is the case at the moment, because fuck if I'm going to click on any of that stuff before I've seen the movie. But as a courtesy, please try to follow those guidelines.

    Also, please continue to clearly label any Cap2 spoilers, paying close attention to quotes or others things that might accidentally swallow whatever labels are there. If your post contains any Cap2 spoilers, a glance at your post should make this clear without having to open up any quote trees or spoiler tags. Anything which does not have labels will assumed to contain AoS spoilers only. Anything posted containing Cap2 spoilers without clear Cap2 labels will be infractable. And also I might drive to your house and punch you in the goddamn face, depending on how spoilery it is.

    Everyone seems to be doing fine on these points, just wanted to reiterate.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe mod Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Re: Ward
    The show definitely isn't trying to make his shooting of an unarmed man unambiguously okay. It was supposed to be a sketchy act at best. But it's also not the case that he just committed straight up, unjustifiable murder. In the context of the show, he killed a guy who might very well be able to influence, if not outright control, the people around him. It was possible, given what Ward knew, that Nash could've influenced Ward to shoot everyone else right there given a few more minutes. The Clairvoyant had been trying to establish for many episodes that he could read thoughts and possibly control others, or at the very least communicate with them directly using those eye thingies. The reasons to think his powers were more limited consisted of Nash saying, "I'm totally not going to hurt you" and Skye suggesting that maybe he wasn't actually a psychic mindcontroller after all, which is not exactly definitive proof. He was definitely a potential threat, and so Ward's execution was more "pre-emptively killing a non-neutralized enemy who has a track record for trying to kill you and your friends" and less "murdering an unarmed paraplegic."

    Regardless of how Ward's actions might play in the real world, in the context of the show it was supposed to be kind of a gray area.

    As to whether there'll be fallout? I'd be shocked if there wasn't. Cap2 events might overshadow stuff, but the show wouldn't have played it like that if there weren't going to be repercussions. There might not be formal action taken against him, but I think that was a defining character moment that'll come back in a major way.

    Also, I hope they don't ship Ward and Skye, because that's way obvious and I much prefer them just having a mentor/friend relationship. I don't think they've done anything yet that couldn't be interpreted as something entirely platonic, though maybe I forgot some moony-eyed gaze somewhere. I think a Fitz/Simmons romance is much more likely.

    If we're going to have to ship these folks, I'm on Team Skye-Fitz. I also dig May-Ward.

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  • Brainiac 8Brainiac 8 Don't call me Shirley... Registered User regular
    I think May/Ward is no more. :(

    I want Fitz to end up with Skye, just because it would be awesome for the nerd to bag the hot girl. They could raise his monkey together. (tee hee)

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  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Skye/Ward is totally going to go the same route as O'Neill/Carter did in SG-1. He's her SO, they're probably not allowed to be involved, so it'll just be a permanent unresolved sexual tension until some random alien/hi-tech/etc mcguffin makes them act on their impulses in a random episode.

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  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden regular Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Re: Ward
    The show definitely isn't trying to make his shooting of an unarmed man unambiguously okay. It was supposed to be a sketchy act at best. But it's also not the case that he just committed straight up, unjustifiable murder. In the context of the show, he killed a guy who might very well be able to influence, if not outright control, the people around him. It was possible, given what Ward knew, that Nash could've influenced Ward to shoot everyone else right there given a few more minutes. The Clairvoyant had been trying to establish for many episodes that he could read thoughts and possibly control others, or at the very least communicate with them directly using those eye thingies. The reasons to think his powers were more limited consisted of Nash saying, "I'm totally not going to hurt you" and Skye suggesting that maybe he wasn't actually a psychic mindcontroller after all, which is not exactly definitive proof. He was definitely a potential threat, and so Ward's execution was more "pre-emptively killing a non-neutralized enemy who has a track record for trying to kill you and your friends" and less "murdering an unarmed paraplegic."

    Regardless of how Ward's actions might play in the real world, in the context of the show it was supposed to be kind of a gray area.

    As to whether there'll be fallout? I'd be shocked if there wasn't. Cap2 events might overshadow stuff, but the show wouldn't have played it like that if there weren't going to be repercussions. There might not be formal action taken against him, but I think that was a defining character moment that'll come back in a major way.

    Also, I hope they don't ship Ward and Skye, because that's way obvious and I much prefer them just having a mentor/friend relationship. I don't think they've done anything yet that couldn't be interpreted as something entirely platonic, though maybe I forgot some moony-eyed gaze somewhere. I think a Fitz/Simmons romance is much more likely.

    If we're going to have to ship these folks, I'm on Team Skye-Fitz. I also dig May-Ward.
    I called what Ward did murder since as of now we have no proof Nash had super powers. There was no confirmation, only minor speculating and all we do know about the Clairvoyant is its technology based with the Eye Spy technology and Coulson has leeway to pursue a mole in SHIELD itself.

    Genuine telepathy and seeing the future are in a separate ballpark to me than someone using Eye Spy technology. The former is a good reason to pre-emptively kill a threat (though he's fucked by SHIELD legally), the latter was neutralized when they take him away from his computers.

    If Coulson's speculations are correct about Nash he did just shoot a harmless paraplegic. Welp.
    Brainiac 8 wrote: »
    I think May/Ward is no more. :(

    I want Fitz to end up with Skye, just because it would be awesome for the nerd to bag the hot girl. They could raise his monkey together. (tee hee)

    Fitz can bag a hot girl without dating Skye. Simmons showed signs of attraction earlier in the season.

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »

    Also, I hope they don't ship Ward and Skye, because that's way obvious and I much prefer them just having a mentor/friend relationship. I don't think they've done anything yet that couldn't be interpreted as something entirely platonic, though maybe I forgot some moony-eyed gaze somewhere. I think a Fitz/Simmons romance is much more likely.

    If we're going to have to ship these folks, I'm on Team Skye-Fitz. I also dig May-Ward.

    there was that beat where Skye used the x-ray goggles to take a peek at Ward

  • ElJeffeElJeffe mod Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Well, who wouldn't use X-ray goggles to peek at Ward?

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  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Well, who wouldn't use X-ray goggles to peek at Ward?

    compelling arguments

  • DelmainDelmain regular Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Well, who wouldn't use X-ray goggles to peek at Ward?

    Given a limited time frame and being in a room with Skye and Ward?

    Me?

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  • jefe414jefe414 "My Other Drill Hole is a Teleporter" Mechagodzilla is Best GodzillaRegistered User regular
    After the jumping out of plane rescue and Ward actually showing a sense of humor, I was hoping more for a Ward/Simmons thing. then the May situation happened and now I fear it'll be Ward/Skye. I'm not interested in a Fitz/Simmons thing because the show (at least to me) portrays them as best friends/almost siblings. Anything more might ruin that dynamic.

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  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    Concerning Nash,
    did they even know if he was actually "speaking?" Since he was paralyzed and couldn't actually talk, someone else could have been typing those messages. For all we know, Ward just killed some poor paralyzed guy Centipede was using as a scapegoat.

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  • klemmingklemming regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    Okay, so some speculation (no Cap2 stuff first):
    May's working on orders from someone (not Hand), and knows that there are monitoring devices on the Bus (hence the insistence that she couldn't talk about it there). May's been trying to find out who they are, but now that's been blown, she might have an in if she can convince Hand that she's been placed in the team on deep cover.
    Whoever's been doing this stuff to find out about Coulsons' revival has been looking for a way to bring someone back from the dead/cure a terminal illness.

    (and now the Cap2 stuff):
    We know Zola had a terminal illness, so he set up the computer to hold his mind, but what if after copying/uploading his mind into it, had his body frozen (pre or post death). From what they did to the Winter Soldier, that tech was obviously there.
    Since finding out that Coulson was alive, AI Zola or one of his people tried to find out if the same thing could be done for Zolas' body. The clairvoyance stuff was a combination of high-level SHIELD access, and Zolas' algorithm, which 'uses the past to predict the future'.
    Season will end with Centipede obtaining some of the GH stuff (I figure Paxton sneaked a sample while they were there, or they take it out of Skye), and reviving/curing Zola.
    Which I will be all for, because Toby Jones is the awesome.

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