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Cosmos, with Neil DeGrasse Tyson - In which we learn that FOX is not the same as Fox News

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Posts

  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    that photosynthesis segment had some embarrassingly bad CGI.

    Holy shit you weren't kidding.

    Looked like a 1999 Silicon Graphics demo.

    That part didn't even make any sense. Who's idea was it to portray it the process with weird Rube Goldberg machinery? That was so jarring, I barely noticed how crappy the effects were.

    They were following the conceit of machinery to explain how it works through the whole segment on photosynthesis. And while I too ended up thinking about old VHS 3D demos of fish trying to hang out with birds... the actual function of the machine was appropriate, and all the "parts" were accomplishing the atomic dance that comprises photosynthesis.

    We may not be the right audience for a simple visual like this, though... but if it helps a younger (or less educated) crowd grasp the concept of the generation of fuel/energy via photosynthesis, then it works.

    But they never used any metaphors that simple on the show. Granted, they've never showed such minute processes "realistically" but nothing nearly that bad.

  • SealSeal Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    I'd be really interested in hearing the show makers explanation for exactly why they went in the direction they did for the photosynthesis scene.

    On one hand I was hoping we'd see something less like we got and more like(relevant action starts at 53s):

    But on the other hand, I'm not sure if the shows target audience would get anything out of something like that without the scene being far longer and in depth than what is possible giving the running time and scope of subject matter of the episode.

    Seal on
  • zllehszllehs Hiding in a box, waiting to strike.Registered User regular
    Tonight NDgT showed how we figured out the earth was 450 million years old and Linked the Roman holiday Saturnalia to Christmas... On Easter night... No fucks are given...

    You guys think he get death threats?

  • MillMill Registered User regular
    Don't forget that we also learned about lead poisoning and how big business hired their own scientist to mislead people about the dangers of lead poisoning.

    Mild ConfusionDedwrekka
  • zllehszllehs Hiding in a box, waiting to strike.Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    GODDAMMIT MILL YOU'VE DOOMED US ALL!!!!

    God is one thing (he isn't real... maybe...) But Big oil? those guys are very real!

    Okay time to burn down this thread and get rid of all the evidence and Repent to our Oil Overlords.

    zllehs on
  • King RiptorKing Riptor Registered User regular
    zllehs wrote: »
    Tonight NDgT showed how we figured out the earth was 450 million years old and Linked the Roman holiday Saturnalia to Christmas... On Easter night... No fucks are given...

    You guys think he get death threats?

    Oh definitely. A Charismatic black scientist with an agenda to educate is like the freakin boogeyman to those people

    I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    zllehs wrote: »
    showed how we figured out the earth was 4.5 billion years old

    zllehsZilla360Mild ConfusionCaedwyrNightslyr
  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    This week's episode is pretty fantastic.

    e: The best thing about it is that it concretely shows the value of science for science's sake.

    The age of the planet is a neat thing to know, but ultimately does not directly impact our day-to-day lives. But the quest to find the answer led to the discovery of a major health problem which greatly impacted everyone's lives

    Kiiiiinda wish they'd tied it to modern climate change deniers a little bit more right at the tail end, but I trust they'll touch on that more in a future episode.

    Jragghen on
  • KingofMadCowsKingofMadCows Registered User regular
    zllehs wrote: »
    showed how we figured out the earth was 4.5 billion years old

    By using the power of earth bending.

    SorceJacoby
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Last nights episode was by far my favorite.

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    Also: Some food for thought on lead, insanity, violence, and IQ levels.

    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    Aegeri wrote: »
    Given the nature of this thread, many of you probably followed the recent Nye-Ham debate from a while back. Nye actually has a nice account and what he thought about the debate up, which is well worth taking the time to have a read through.

    dangit page not found, does anyone know if there is a different site that has it?

    EDIT: ha, no it's just Aegeri who typoed the link :p

    http://www.csicop.org/si/show/bill_nyes_take_on_the_nye-ham_debate

    So It Goes on
  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    Also: Some food for thought on lead, insanity, violence, and IQ levels.

    funnily enough this article just popped up on the BBC. very timely.

  • JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    syndalis wrote: »
    a5ehren wrote: »
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    that photosynthesis segment had some embarrassingly bad CGI.

    Holy shit you weren't kidding.

    Looked like a 1999 Silicon Graphics demo.

    That part didn't even make any sense. Who's idea was it to portray it the process with weird Rube Goldberg machinery? That was so jarring, I barely noticed how crappy the effects were.

    They were following the conceit of machinery to explain how it works through the whole segment on photosynthesis. And while I too ended up thinking about old VHS 3D demos of fish trying to hang out with birds... the actual function of the machine was appropriate, and all the "parts" were accomplishing the atomic dance that comprises photosynthesis.

    We may not be the right audience for a simple visual like this, though... but if it helps a younger (or less educated) crowd grasp the concept of the generation of fuel/energy via photosynthesis, then it works.

    Simple visuals work pretty well.

    3Gi4MG6.gif

    Has anyone tweeted/facebooked/whatever'd this to Neil yet?

  • N1tSt4lkerN1tSt4lker Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    Things I am now proud to say I have learned and understand: how we know what the actual age of the earth is. That is a really good feeling, you guys. /takethatcreationistupbringing

    N1tSt4lker on
    halkunSeidkonaWraith260Gennenalyse RuebenSamphisNightslyr
  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    Did I miss something, or did they leave out a very critical part of how uranium/lead dating works? Tyson explained how radioactive decay proceeds independently of chemical and physical changes, but radiometric dating requires that the event being dated produces a fixed element (or isotope) ratio so you can calculate how far off the current ratio is. The formation of a generic rock doesn't accomplish this, for exactly the constancy of radioactive decay rates that Tyson just finished explaining. The uranium/lead ratio doesn't tell you anything because you don't know how much of each element was present to begin with--and even if you did, you'd only be able to deduce how long had passed since those elements formed (inside a star), because rock formation isn't the "start" of radioactive decay in those elements.

    They key is that zircon crystals, at their formation, will include uranium but not lead; nearby lead is excluded as the zircon crystal grows. This means that the zircon crystal can be relied on to have originally contained zero lead, and the ratio of uranium to lead at the present time therefore tells us how much time has elapsed since the zircon crystallized. We have to know with certainty what the uranium/lead ratio was at some time in the past to deduce how much time has passed since then.

    Zilla360Jacoby
  • JoolanderJoolander Registered User regular
    Remember, this is simplified mainly for people who don't already know this stuff

    Wraith260
  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    I didn't know it either until I went and looked it up after the episode.

  • SiliconStewSiliconStew Registered User regular
    The show got you to go and learn more about science. I'd say it accomplished its goal.

    Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
    King RiptorzllehsWraith260SamphisAistanShadowfireMillJoolanderEvigilantZilla360Gennenalyse RuebenJacobyEdith UpwardsPantsBAndy JoeAegeriMarathonShadowen
  • zllehszllehs Hiding in a box, waiting to strike.Registered User regular
    The show got you to go and learn more about science. I'd say it accomplished its goal.

    I myself had no idea there was 5 mass extinctions in earth's history.

    I'm currently looking up books on the issue.

    Shadowfire
  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    The show got you to go and learn more about science. I'd say it accomplished its goal.
    Sure, but that's not really relevant to whether there's an omission in the show's explanation.

    A better dismissal would have been that I'm not really the target audience for Cosmos and that the most of the intended audience wouldn't notice the inconsistency or might find the overall message diluted by a full explanation. I suspect Tyson did explain it at one point and that sentence ended up cut for time.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    <3 Nature Magazine <3

    With Love and Courage
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    zllehs wrote: »
    The show got you to go and learn more about science. I'd say it accomplished its goal.

    I myself had no idea there was 5 mass extinctions in earth's history.

    I'm currently looking up books on the issue.

    My favorite extinction event is the Great Oxygen Event where plants killed off a ton of life by making oxygen which also cascaded into an immense ice age. It's just taken a little over 2 billion years for us to take our revenge on the plants

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    ...I have to say, I didn't like how the fight between Patterson & Kehoe was portrayed. Kehoe didn't have 'the same data' at all - he cooked the books & used fraudulent numbers.

    Also, I'm pretty sure Kehoe was only a 'science' man in the public eye? He didn't have an actual expertise or accreditation, did he?

    With Love and Courage
  • jeffinvajeffinva Koogler coming this summerRegistered User regular
    I discovered Sagan during my second year of college. The Demon Haunted World. I got a bit teary-eyed when Neil recounted his dealings with Carl.

    STEAM_0:1:18117820, Twitch: puulse, PSN: Jeff_en-la-boca, Nintendo: jeffinva
    The EnderSamphisZilla360
  • N1tSt4lkerN1tSt4lker Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    ...I have to say, I didn't like how the fight between Patterson & Kehoe was portrayed. Kehoe didn't have 'the same data' at all - he cooked the books & used fraudulent numbers.

    Also, I'm pretty sure Kehoe was only a 'science' man in the public eye? He didn't have an actual expertise or accreditation, did he?

    I don't know that that's ever stopped anyone from being considered an expert at a congressional hearing. Kehoe was a doctor, though, which is why the oil industry was using him--because he was the kind of expert who could cherry-pick and manipulate the data to support their idea of a threshold level under which lead exposure was safe.

  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    It would be nice if there were some stiff punitive measures for being a PhD and then just using your credentials to rake in cash while defrauding the public.


    Having your name stripped from your own dissertations, losing the title, maybe also having to pay back any grant money you were given, etc.

    With Love and Courage
  • ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    you guys might find the podcasts at Palaeocast rather interesting

    Also StarTalk, hosted by Neil Tyson. This week he interviewed Steven Soter, and he's hoping to have Ann Druyan on soon.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
    Zilla360
  • SamphisSamphis Registered User regular
    I bought the season pass for this show on Amazon Instant, just so I could more easily watch it on my TV without commercials. Unfortunately, they don't post until Tuesday, and they added like 30 seconds of Fox commercials to the beginning and two minutes to the end. That's incredibly bullshit. At least they are skippable.

    Special thanks to whoever posted the info on Your Inner Fish. I caught up on that as well last night. I'm very much looking forward to the Creationist backlash for the last episode: "Your Inner Monkey."

  • Wraith260Wraith260 Happiest Goomba! Registered User regular
    for those that really can't stand to watch the show with all those ads and those that just want to be able to re-watch at will, Cosmos be available on Blu-Ray & DVD from June 10th and is available for pre-order now.

    ShadowfireZilla360N1tSt4lkerDedwrekkaTheBlackWindjeffinvaEvigilant
  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    That's pretty damn fast.

    Awesome!

    newSig.jpg
  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    zllehs wrote: »
    The show got you to go and learn more about science. I'd say it accomplished its goal.

    I myself had no idea there was 5 mass extinctions in earth's history.

    I'm currently looking up books on the issue.

    *makes a fist* And here they are.

    11793-1.png
    day9gosu.png
    QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
    TheBlackWind
  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    The blue-rays have commercials too.

    Mild Confusion on
    steam_sig.png

    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
    Zilla360Deebaser
  • N1tSt4lkerN1tSt4lker Registered User regular
    The Ender wrote: »
    It would be nice if there were some stiff punitive measures for being a PhD and then just using your credentials to rake in cash while defrauding the public.


    Having your name stripped from your own dissertations, losing the title, maybe also having to pay back any grant money you were given, etc.

    I tend to agree. I has heartened when Dr. Wakefield (fraudulent vaccine ->Autism study guy) not only had his work retracted but had his medical license revoked. When you trade on your position of authority to deceive the public, the consequences should reflect the trust you've betrayed. Otherwise, the very position of scientific, or any kind of knowledgeable authority, being a trustworthy source, is terribly undermined. And the results (see: all the people who have not vaccinated their kiddoes) are dangerous.

    The EnderZilla360Shadowen
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    N1tSt4lker wrote: »
    The Ender wrote: »
    It would be nice if there were some stiff punitive measures for being a PhD and then just using your credentials to rake in cash while defrauding the public.


    Having your name stripped from your own dissertations, losing the title, maybe also having to pay back any grant money you were given, etc.

    I tend to agree. I has heartened when Dr. Wakefield (fraudulent vaccine ->Autism study guy) not only had his work retracted but had his medical license revoked. When you trade on your position of authority to deceive the public, the consequences should reflect the trust you've betrayed. Otherwise, the very position of scientific, or any kind of knowledgeable authority, being a trustworthy source, is terribly undermined. And the results (see: all the people who have not vaccinated their kiddoes) are dangerous.

    It almost never really seems to be as cut and dry as those cases. It's pretty hard to determine sometimes if they intentionally compromised their research or if they were swayed by their preconceived notions.

  • N1tSt4lkerN1tSt4lker Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    True. And I'm not suggesting that penalties be thrown about at random, but in cases where it is cut-and-dried or can be shown that evidence was obviously cherry-picked or other evidence intentionally ignored, then those are cases where there ought to be penalties. Certainly preconceived notions can cause problems unwittingly, and I would not advocate for penalizing someone for not adequately controlling for their own preconceived notions.

    Edit: And there are cases where I would advocate for a removal of an article that turned out to be compromised by undue bias but not for permanent or ongoing penalties for the author.

    N1tSt4lker on
  • The EnderThe Ender Registered User regular
    It almost never really seems to be as cut and dry as those cases. It's pretty hard to determine sometimes if they intentionally compromised their research or if they were swayed by their preconceived notions.

    There are some criteria that can used to make strong cases for intentional fraud:


    1) Did you use results in a study that appear to have been faked in order to pass peer review?
    2) Did you use your apparently faked study results as a lobbying platform for an ideological cause?
    3) Did you accept money/gifts as a result of the above?


    If [y], hi there, we'll be taking back that PhD. You'll get an invoice in the mail for the sum of money you took from the government in order to bake-up a fake study that ultimately hurt public interests.


    Also, I don't particularly care if you were 'swayed' by your own political ideology and the money wasn't the sole reason that you faked a study. The result's the same.

    With Love and Courage
  • EmperorSethEmperorSeth Registered User regular
    I think my favorite episodes are ones like this, with a strong historical story running through it. And damn, combining this episode and that motherjones article? Even if we assume that a lot of this was simplified, Clair Patterson could have been the most important figures in modern history.

    You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
    Zilla360Shadowen
  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    The latest episode of Neil deGrasse Tyson's podcast StarTalk features him talking with Steven Soter, a co-writer of both the original and current Cosmos: http://www.startalkradio.net/show/cosmos-conversation-with-steven-soter/

    Pretty good episode. Interesting to note that Neil was originally a part of the writing process, but as he sat there with Soter and Ann Druyan, he realized he was a third wheel and backed away.

    I still haven't watched last week's episode of Cosmos.

    SteevL on
    Shadowfire
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