Both players lose, but it doesn't count against either one.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Anyone know of a program that is at least somewhat reputable making the rounds that analyzes and keeps track of what you've opened in packs? I know there are Arena trackers floating around, so I was hoping there was something that did it for packs as well. I'm about to open another 40 stack, and I'd like to start keep tracking of at least basic stats without hand writing them. For science.
Finally had a decent streak with this Arena. I've noticed that the card rankings tend to favor higher-cost cards, which can leave my curve kinda... off. I'll depend on a near-perfect draw, playing creatures on the curve and trading evenly till I get to turn 6 or so and start trying to catch up and dominate. Sometimes I can and sometimes I can't.
I don't trust my own judgement enough to go off-rank on card suggestions yet just to make my mana curve look pretty though. Suggestions on how to do this draft different are welcome.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Really a card ranking that isn't sub-categorized by cost is kind of silly. I don't care how 1 costs compare to 3 costs, I care how 1 costs compare to 1 costs. Mayyybbeee 2 costs, but only special cases. Basically one cost up or down can be a valid comparison, but comparing an 8 to 1 and going "Rag is better than Northshire Cleric"* is kind of duh.
*This is not a real comparison, I didn't even look to see if it was. Completely pulled from butt.
Welp. Just had one of the best moments in my HS career.
Playing priest in arena. Against a mage and we sort of just controlling back and forth the whole game and by turn 9 we are both still at like 25+ hp each.
I have like 2 small units on the board and his board is empty.
His turn 9: drops yserra
My turn 10: mind control
He concedes.
That was it. I laughed for like 30 seconds straight, closed the game and went and poured myself a drink.
I have no idea why, but in that moment it was the best and funniest thing ever.
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The amount of zoo that has suddenly appeared at rank 5-6 is horrible. Need to do something to my deck to fix it. Went from rank 4 down to rank 6 3 stars facing 8 zoo warlocks in a row.
So when alarmo-bot pulls a twighlight drake, the drake comes out as a 4-1 instead of using its cry
>.<'
Yeah. Battlecry is not Magic's "When X enters the battlefield...". It's very definitively "When X is played from hand...". I think Mindgames would pull it as a 4/1 too.
The amount of zoo that has suddenly appeared at rank 5-6 is horrible. Need to do something to my deck to fix it. Went from rank 4 down to rank 6 3 stars facing 8 zoo warlocks in a row.
I'm only at rank 10, but my mid-range shaman deck I use I had to tweak to deal with zoo once I got past rank 15.
Adding in straight taunts or defenders helps. Throwing in your own argent squires can help get you some early board presence, and zoo *usually* plays for board control and not face rushing, so he'll usually trade em and clear the board if possible.
Basically you just need enough early game threats for him to keep trying to clear and before you know it it's mid game and you can take control now.
It's a lot easier as shaman as I have a TON of stuff to outright deal with it. And adding in flametongue has helped. I can throw out some early squires and totems. If any of them are left standing I can drop flametongue to pressure them. Again, I don't even care about them controlling the board early game, I just want to force them to actually trade stuff so when turn 6+ comes I can just sweep his ass and drop my big guns.
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So, when building a Control deck; what are the design principles? It's got to be more than Taunts + Big Creatures. What do you look for, how important is the Hero Power, etc etc. I've never built a Control deck before but I have an idea I'd like to explore.
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited April 2014
I'm a noob but for me, vs aggro anyway, it's pretty much just trying to survive til you can get a solid foothold on the board
part of why I hate hunter (and am now playing hunter) is that the foothold can't stem the 2 dmg/turn if they don't want it to. limits how much damage you can take before you have to stabilize.
as priest I use heals but it seems logical to me warrior would be at least as good if not better. can't heal minions but can always armor up mroe and more
So, when building a Control deck; what are the design principles? It's got to be more than Taunts + Big Creatures. What do you look for, how important is the Hero Power, etc etc. I've never built a Control deck before but I have an idea I'd like to explore.
When building ANY deck the first step is answering this question "how do I envision winning?".
Control *usually* wants to go late. Controlling the board, your hand size, and your hp pool so that when late game comes you win by being able to drop, protect, and attack with big shit
So look at your available cards and think "ok, if I can get this card, and this card on the board and then use this weapon/spell/whatever next turn, I can do like 15+ damage" or wahtever. Great that's an endgame plan. Now build around GETTING to that point. Then play the deck. Then realize that only happens a small % of time And start tweaking the deck to compensate for the things you are noticing that you lack or that completely fall apart when X happens or whatever.
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So, when building a Control deck; what are the design principles? It's got to be more than Taunts + Big Creatures. What do you look for, how important is the Hero Power, etc etc. I've never built a Control deck before but I have an idea I'd like to explore.
You also need wipe of some sort. Typically, stealing from Magic, control decks have the following components:
Wipe, to clear the board of tiny things your opponent played out early
Targeted removal, to deal with unique threats that either evade a wipe or aren't worth wasting a wipe on
Big beater, some sort of late-game win condition. Usually a creature or combo, because you can't devote too much of your deck to damage spells
Defense for your big beater, so it can do the beating necessary
Efficient slowdown, to play out in the early game to slow down aggro decks without giving up your main weapon, which is card advantage
So, for example, Flamestrike to wipe, Polymorphs for removal, Ragnaros as a beater, some Counterspells or Mirror Images to protect it, and some cards like Loot Hoarder or Sen'jin Shieldmasta to stem the aggro tide. Obviously, these few cards do not a control deck make, but the ratios in which those cards are used depend on the meta you're facing.
Ideally, what you want is at, say, turn 8 or 9, to have the board clear, have more (or at least equal) cards in hard, and be at a reasonable level of health (i.e. beyond a 1-turn kill). This is "stabilizing". Then you rely on your cards being better than your opponent's.
hippofant on
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TIFunkaliciousKicking back inNebraskaRegistered Userregular
It was pretty discouraging when I started because the control flavor of decks is gated behind having 5-8 legendaries like alexstrasza, sylvannas, rag, black knight, thalnos. You used to want tinkmaster and pagle but they're no longer 'so good it's necessary'
So, when building a Control deck; what are the design principles? It's got to be more than Taunts + Big Creatures. What do you look for, how important is the Hero Power, etc etc. I've never built a Control deck before but I have an idea I'd like to explore.
When building ANY deck the first step is answering this question "how do I envision winning?".
Control *usually* wants to go late. Controlling the board, your hand size, and your hp pool so that when late game comes you win by being able to drop, protect, and attack with big shit
So look at your available cards and think "ok, if I can get this card, and this card on the board and then use this weapon/spell/whatever next turn, I can do like 15+ damage" or wahtever. Great that's an endgame plan. Now build around GETTING to that point. Then play the deck. Then realize that only happens a small % of time And start tweaking the deck to compensate for the things you are noticing that you lack or that completely fall apart when X happens or whatever.
Good explanation, but just to add: say you have a couple of big dudes you plan on throwing down at the end. To get to that point, you're going to want spells that deal with your opponent's creatures, so your guys are facing as little pressure as possible. You're going to want early minions that will keep you alive until that point, so Taunts, or just things that stick well, like Harvest Golem. The value of creatures shifts to how well they will accomplish the goal of facilitating your victory.
Different classes get to that point differently. Shaman has tons of spells that can handle both small and large creatures. Warriors have weapons and Shield Block/Shield Slam. And so on.
Card draw is also pretty important, as more cards give you the best option for dealing with whatever your opponent plays, instead of forcing inefficient answers. (It's important in both control and aggro, but the card draw you can value in control is different than in aggro.)
Beat a Control Warrior who dropped Alexstraza, Ragnaros, Black Knight & Harrison Jones (not to mention Gorehowl, Brawl & 2 Shield Slams for epics). Sweetest part of the win? My mid-range Shaman deck uses no legendaries of its own
Beat a Control Warrior who dropped Alexstraza, Ragnaros, Black Knight & Harrison Jones (not to mention Gorehowl, Brawl & 2 Shield Slams for epics). Sweetest part of the win? My mid-range Shaman deck uses no legendaries of its own
The worst thing to happen to control warriors was when Trump made his F2P Shaman deck. Everyone realized how much ridiculous value you get out of cheap removal that almost always 2 for 1's. If you have just a simple spell totem out you have the potential for a 5 mana (+2 OL) flamestrike, 1 mana 2dmg silence or a 1 mana quasi-fireball (+2 OL). Overload is an ice mechanic in theory, but in reality there are so many ways Shaman get around it being a truly hampering mechanic.
It was pretty discouraging when I started because the control flavor of decks is gated behind having 5-8 legendaries like alexstrasza, sylvannas, rag, black knight, thalnos. You used to want tinkmaster and pagle but they're no longer 'so good it's necessary'
You can play control oriented decks without those cards (rogue, druid, mage, hunter) but they definitely make it easier and you still have to have more dust to craft all the rares+ than you'd need to just make a zoo deck
Or any competitive hunter deck ever because they can just play whatever flavor they want and win
Wait what were we talking about again
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited April 2014
Opened my 40 spot.
Valen, Antonidas, The Beast, Norzdormu
Ant and Norz were copies. 3070 dust burnt down total. I have enough dust to craft a few of the legendaries I don't have yet, and the molten giant I need to finish a handlock deck if I want to play around with one.
Ant and Norz were copies. 3070 dust burnt down total. I have enough dust to craft a few of the legendaries I don't have yet, and the molten giant I need to finish a handlock deck if I want to play around with one.
40 spot? Like, you opened 40 packs of cards? Was this a backlog or did you drop $80?
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Ant and Norz were copies. 3070 dust burnt down total. I have enough dust to craft a few of the legendaries I don't have yet, and the molten giant I need to finish a handlock deck if I want to play around with one.
40 spot? Like, you opened 40 packs of cards? Was this a backlog or did you drop $80?
40 packs is 50 dollars, not 80. And yes, I bought 40 packs. I do it generally once a month or so when I have some money left in my entertainment budget.
My opponent had lethal on board. Did I just Aldor Peacekeeper his Shieldbearer and hit it with my acolyte which drew me the Hammer of Wrath I needed to win the game? Yes, yes I did.
Just played against a mage in Arena who might as well have had a constructed deck.
Two frostbolts, a couple of sorcerer's apprentices, a bunch of secrets, blizzard, flamestrike, a bunch of cone of colds.
I think he put down five minions the whole game. It went to turn 10.
At one point I had six huge minions on the board -- two yetis, a Stormwind Champion, and others. He blizzarded them one round. He flamestruck it the next.
Prep is a 3 mana innervate for spells. The only trouble is that spells are usually already mana efficient compared to minions (which are mana efficient if they don't die), so that is not hugely beneficial except to miracle rogue.
Draft Ysera. Get to play her once in a game that was lost regardless and just wanted to draw cards. Only get 4 wins in a really good deck, but never draw a war axe early in my 3 losses. Sad times.
The worst thing to happen to control warriors was when Trump made his F2P Shaman deck. Everyone realized how much ridiculous value you get out of cheap removal that almost always 2 for 1's. If you have just a simple spell totem out you have the potential for a 5 mana (+2 OL) flamestrike, 1 mana 2dmg silence or a 1 mana quasi-fireball (+2 OL). Overload is an ice mechanic in theory, but in reality there are so many ways Shaman get around it being a truly hampering mechanic.
See I started playing Shaman well before Trump's latest run. I switched after no one was sympathetic to my hatred of overload cards and how powerful they could be. Figured I might as well enjoy them rather than carry on.
Plus I like the burst damage combos from wind fury and bloodlust...
Posts
Queue up in ranked and play this guy who was beating me the whole game and had me at 2 health. Jara followed by Rag the next turn gave me the win.
I feel dirty.
Xbox Live / Steam
How does the game resolve if you both die as a result of the Abomination's deathrattle?
Draw or do you lose because you'd be on -1 to their 0?
or kill command
or silence
etc. etc.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I don't trust my own judgement enough to go off-rank on card suggestions yet just to make my mana curve look pretty though. Suggestions on how to do this draft different are welcome.
*This is not a real comparison, I didn't even look to see if it was. Completely pulled from butt.
Predictions for how this will go?
>.<'
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
arena confounds me. I don't feel I should do as badly as I do.
Playing priest in arena. Against a mage and we sort of just controlling back and forth the whole game and by turn 9 we are both still at like 25+ hp each.
I have like 2 small units on the board and his board is empty.
His turn 9: drops yserra
My turn 10: mind control
He concedes.
That was it. I laughed for like 30 seconds straight, closed the game and went and poured myself a drink.
I have no idea why, but in that moment it was the best and funniest thing ever.
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Not sure that it doesn't count. Pretty sure both players lose and it counts for both as a loss.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
I do believe draws are zero-loss, but it's never happened to me so vOv.
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Yeah. Battlecry is not Magic's "When X enters the battlefield...". It's very definitively "When X is played from hand...". I think Mindgames would pull it as a 4/1 too.
I'm only at rank 10, but my mid-range shaman deck I use I had to tweak to deal with zoo once I got past rank 15.
Adding in straight taunts or defenders helps. Throwing in your own argent squires can help get you some early board presence, and zoo *usually* plays for board control and not face rushing, so he'll usually trade em and clear the board if possible.
Basically you just need enough early game threats for him to keep trying to clear and before you know it it's mid game and you can take control now.
It's a lot easier as shaman as I have a TON of stuff to outright deal with it. And adding in flametongue has helped. I can throw out some early squires and totems. If any of them are left standing I can drop flametongue to pressure them. Again, I don't even care about them controlling the board early game, I just want to force them to actually trade stuff so when turn 6+ comes I can just sweep his ass and drop my big guns.
Listen to our podcast, read our articles, tell us how much you hate it and how to make it better
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
part of why I hate hunter (and am now playing hunter) is that the foothold can't stem the 2 dmg/turn if they don't want it to. limits how much damage you can take before you have to stabilize.
as priest I use heals but it seems logical to me warrior would be at least as good if not better. can't heal minions but can always armor up mroe and more
idk this was a useless post hah, sorry.
When building ANY deck the first step is answering this question "how do I envision winning?".
Control *usually* wants to go late. Controlling the board, your hand size, and your hp pool so that when late game comes you win by being able to drop, protect, and attack with big shit
So look at your available cards and think "ok, if I can get this card, and this card on the board and then use this weapon/spell/whatever next turn, I can do like 15+ damage" or wahtever. Great that's an endgame plan. Now build around GETTING to that point. Then play the deck. Then realize that only happens a small % of time
Listen to our podcast, read our articles, tell us how much you hate it and how to make it better
You also need wipe of some sort. Typically, stealing from Magic, control decks have the following components:
So, for example, Flamestrike to wipe, Polymorphs for removal, Ragnaros as a beater, some Counterspells or Mirror Images to protect it, and some cards like Loot Hoarder or Sen'jin Shieldmasta to stem the aggro tide. Obviously, these few cards do not a control deck make, but the ratios in which those cards are used depend on the meta you're facing.
Ideally, what you want is at, say, turn 8 or 9, to have the board clear, have more (or at least equal) cards in hard, and be at a reasonable level of health (i.e. beyond a 1-turn kill). This is "stabilizing". Then you rely on your cards being better than your opponent's.
and it triggered another one that was at 4-2
and that triggered another one that WAS 4-4, but well is now dead
so yeah the entire GAME just took 6 dmg across the face
Even though it was enough to kill me, it was glorious.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Good explanation, but just to add: say you have a couple of big dudes you plan on throwing down at the end. To get to that point, you're going to want spells that deal with your opponent's creatures, so your guys are facing as little pressure as possible. You're going to want early minions that will keep you alive until that point, so Taunts, or just things that stick well, like Harvest Golem. The value of creatures shifts to how well they will accomplish the goal of facilitating your victory.
Different classes get to that point differently. Shaman has tons of spells that can handle both small and large creatures. Warriors have weapons and Shield Block/Shield Slam. And so on.
Card draw is also pretty important, as more cards give you the best option for dealing with whatever your opponent plays, instead of forcing inefficient answers. (It's important in both control and aggro, but the card draw you can value in control is different than in aggro.)
The worst thing to happen to control warriors was when Trump made his F2P Shaman deck. Everyone realized how much ridiculous value you get out of cheap removal that almost always 2 for 1's. If you have just a simple spell totem out you have the potential for a 5 mana (+2 OL) flamestrike, 1 mana 2dmg silence or a 1 mana quasi-fireball (+2 OL). Overload is an ice mechanic in theory, but in reality there are so many ways Shaman get around it being a truly hampering mechanic.
You can play control oriented decks without those cards (rogue, druid, mage, hunter) but they definitely make it easier and you still have to have more dust to craft all the rares+ than you'd need to just make a zoo deck
Or any competitive hunter deck ever because they can just play whatever flavor they want and win
Wait what were we talking about again
Valen, Antonidas, The Beast, Norzdormu
Ant and Norz were copies. 3070 dust burnt down total. I have enough dust to craft a few of the legendaries I don't have yet, and the molten giant I need to finish a handlock deck if I want to play around with one.
40 spot? Like, you opened 40 packs of cards? Was this a backlog or did you drop $80?
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40 packs is 50 dollars, not 80. And yes, I bought 40 packs. I do it generally once a month or so when I have some money left in my entertainment budget.
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I'm thinking I can get 5-6 wins with it if my opponents don't expect da' hounds.
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Two frostbolts, a couple of sorcerer's apprentices, a bunch of secrets, blizzard, flamestrike, a bunch of cone of colds.
I think he put down five minions the whole game. It went to turn 10.
At one point I had six huge minions on the board -- two yetis, a Stormwind Champion, and others. He blizzarded them one round. He flamestruck it the next.
Almost like this wasn't a minion-placing game.
I think I'd rather have wisp.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
See I started playing Shaman well before Trump's latest run. I switched after no one was sympathetic to my hatred of overload cards and how powerful they could be. Figured I might as well enjoy them rather than carry on.
Plus I like the burst damage combos from wind fury and bloodlust...