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The New (and On Notice) Obama Thread

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Posts

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    Kipling217 wrote: »
    I remember that in 2000 the press had a huge hateboner for Gore. Every little thing he said wrong was blasted up into a huge scandal. Of hand comment about him sponsoring a bill that helped universities to connect to the World Wide Web(which for all intents and purposes is the Internet even back then), became "Gore invented the internet".

    Then there was the deference to W. The guy was obviously a drooling monkey even back then, but because he had the right last name, he became a serious contender. The average 2012 GOP candidate had more credibility then Dubya did back in 2000, but did the press notice.

    Sally Quinn's article on how the D.C. establishment felt the Clintons disrespected "their" town provides a good insight into why the press went so heavily for Bush over Gore:
    "We have our own set of village rules," says David Gergen, editor at large at U.S. News & World Report, who worked for both the Reagan and Clinton White House. "Sex did not violate those rules. The deep and searing violation took place when he not only lied to the country, but co-opted his friends and lied to them. That is one on which people choke.

    "We all live together, we have a sense of community, there's a small-town quality here. We all understand we do certain things, we make certain compromises. But when you have gone over the line, you won't bring others into it. That is a cardinal rule of the village. You don't foul the nest."


    "This is a contractual city," says Chris Matthews, who once was a top aide to the late Speaker of the House Thomas P. "Tip" O'Neill. "There are no factories here. What we make are deals. It's a city based on bonds made and kept." The president, he went on, "has broken and shattered contracts publicly and shamefully. He violates the trust at the highest level of politics. Matthews, now a Washington columnist for the San Francisco Examiner and host of CNBC's "Hardball," also says, "There has to be a functional trust by reporters of the person they're covering. Clinton lies knowing that you know he's lying. It's brutal and it subjugates the person who's being lied to. I resent deeply being constantly lied to."

    Republican Alan Simpson, a longtime Washington insider now teaching at Harvard's John F. Kennedy School of Government in Boston, still identifies with his colleagues in this situation. "There is only one question here," says the former senator. "Did he raise his right hand and lie about it and then lie again? Lying under oath -- that to me is all there is. Did this man, whether he is head of the hardware store or the president or applying for a game and fishing license, raise his hand and say, 'This is the truth'?"

    Damn, sounds like a cult. :(

    I notice they didn't consider what Bush Junior's administration were doing were lying.

  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    He also apparently said "we tortured some folks" and the Right on Twitter is freaking out. Especially Ted Cruz's speechwriter.

    [ed]

    Man she just can't help herself, can she?
    For real? President Obama is having a Katy Perry concert at the WH? Do they even care about optics anymore.

    — Amanda Carpenter (@amandacarpenter) August 1, 2014

    Thinking back this week on things Cruz has worked on: Israel, border crisis, Internet taxes, NSA, FAA. Iran. Not holding Katy Perry concerts

    — Amanda Carpenter (@amandacarpenter) August 1, 2014

    The Katy Perry concert was for Special Olympics participants.

    SyphonBlue on
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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
    Doodmannoverride367ShadowfireSquigiechrishallett83programjunkieyossarian_livesKamarStollsMan in the Mistsemp123
  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Does she even care about optics anymore?

    Squigie
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure it was a PR Victory for our enemies when we abandoned our ideals and became as bad as our enemies..

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
    Harry DresdenjoshofalltradesQuidArdoloverride367MillShadowfireSquigieRchanenDerrickEdith UpwardsTofystedethchrishallett83yossarian_livesFlying CouchMahnmutKamarzllehsStollsJazzMild ConfusionGaddezMrVyngaardCalicaNo-QuarterJobless AnarchistMan in the MistsLovely
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it was a PR Victory for our enemies when we abandoned our ideals and became as bad as our enemies..

    Yeah pretty sure torturing people was the victory for our enemies, denying it too once it became pretty well known we fucking did it.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
    SquigieEdith Upwards
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Did Obama even say it or are conservatives making shit up again

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
  • Professor PhobosProfessor Phobos Registered User regular
    Yes, the followup to "Hey we tortured" is "and did the right people go to jail for it?"

    War crimes are war crimes, yo.

    Squigiechrishallett83zllehsMrVyngaard
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Did Obama even say it or are conservatives making shit up again

    It's how he's talking about the torture. Obama's using it in a negative light, if he was supporting it they'd secretly love it.

    Harry Dresden on
  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Did Obama even say it or are conservatives making shit up again

    It's how he's talking about the torture. Obama's using it in a negative light, if he was supporting it they'd secretly love it.

    No, they'd suddenly be against it and would accuse him of being a war criminal and would demand the Hague immediately put him up on trial

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    PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
    V1mSquigieEdith UpwardsNo-Quarter
  • BubbyBubby Registered User regular
    It's just kind of funny how casual "We tortured some folks" sounds.

  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular
    Bubby wrote: »
    It's just kind of funny how casual "We tortured some folks" sounds.

    It's the word 'folks'

    Like Folk Music, or Folksy, or County Folk and City Folk.

    It just makes it sound totally nonthreatening and harmless.

    Don't worry about them Militia Folks, they wouldn't hurt a fly.

  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    Did Obama even say it or are conservatives making shit up again

    It's how he's talking about the torture. Obama's using it in a negative light, if he was supporting it they'd secretly love it.

    No, they'd suddenly be against it and would accuse him of being a war criminal and would demand the Hague immediately put him up on trial

    Well yeah. But they'd privately be psyched that he is following Bush's example. And they'd never get him near the Hague, they know how much shit they'd get if America was bought under the Hague's jurisdiction.

  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Bubby wrote: »
    It's just kind of funny how casual "We tortured some folks" sounds.

    Almost comforting if you imagine it in Morgan Freeman's voice.











    Sleep well, citizen!

    MrVyngaard
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    they get mad whenever obama invites anyone to the white house for any reason

    Harry DresdenSquigieEdith Upwardschrishallett83programjunkieStollsLovely
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    they get mad whenever obama invites anyone to the white house for any reason

    The "Nuh" factor.

    chrishallett83
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    So... You guys are saying I should decline, then?

    Lovely
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Even before I came into office, I was very clear that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, we did some things that were wrong. We did a whole lot of things that were right, but we tortured some folks. We did some things that were contrary to our values. I understand why it happened. I think it's important when we look back to recall how afraid people were after the Twin Towers fell and the Pentagon had been hit and the plane in Pennsylvania had fallen and people did not know whether more attacks were imminent and there was enormous pressure on our law enforcement and our national security teams to try to deal with this. And, you know, it's important for us not to feel too sanctimonious in retrospect about the tough job that those folks had. A lot of those folks were working hard under enormous pressure and are real patriots, but having said all that, we did some things that were wrong. And that's what that report reflects.

    The President was actually totally full of shit, by the way. For one, most of the torture was done well after the immediate aftermath. But since the guy he appointed to head CIA was hip deep in this shit...

    Ugh, I hate the Brennan appointment so much.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    Sorry, there is literally no situation that exists where an American can be a true patriot and a torturer.

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
    MvrckenlightenedbumDerrickjoshofalltradesRchanenHouniTunesIsEvilArdolShadowfireEdith Upwardschrishallett83yossarian_livesQuidzllehsCaptain MarcusStollsCorehealerMrVyngaard
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    I beg to differ. Republicans have been torturing logic for years and they'll be the first to tell you they're the one true patriot.

    SpoitHarry Dresdenyossarian_lives
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I beg to differ. Republicans have been torturing logic for years and they'll be the first to tell you they're the one true patriot.

    Are we taking it on faith that a Republican is correct? Because that seems like a poor decision.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
    Edith Upwardsyossarian_livesMrVyngaard
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    Bubby wrote: »
    It's just kind of funny how casual "We tortured some folks" sounds.

    Almost comforting if you imagine it in Morgan Freeman's voice.











    Sleep well, citizen!

    Everything is comforting in Morgan Freeman's voice

    MrVyngaardLovely
  • ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    Bubby wrote: »
    It's just kind of funny how casual "We tortured some folks" sounds.

    Almost comforting if you imagine it in Morgan Freeman's voice.











    Sleep well, citizen!

    Everything is comforting in Morgan Freeman's voice

    A telephone book is comforting in Morgan Freeman's voice

    that's it, I'm shutting this entire forum down, everyone thank buttcleft
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Articles of Impeachment would be- Wait...

  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Buttcleft wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    Bubby wrote: »
    It's just kind of funny how casual "We tortured some folks" sounds.

    Almost comforting if you imagine it in Morgan Freeman's voice.











    Sleep well, citizen!

    Everything is comforting in Morgan Freeman's voice

    A telephone book is comforting in Morgan Freeman's voice

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
    RadiationHappylilElfchrishallett83Gnome-InterruptusSquigieRchanenMahnmutDoctorArchStollsMild Confusionjimb213CorehealerJobless AnarchistLovely
  • yossarian_livesyossarian_lives Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    I'm having a difficult time conflating the term "patriot" with some poor bastard getting a car battery attached to his nutsack with alligator clips.

    I mean, I get why the president didn't go after old Bushy and friends. It'd take a lot of time and effort to take all of them down and then you'd set the precedent for going after former presidents. Republicans would never abuse that!

    yossarian_lives on
    "I see everything twice!"


  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Even if you don't go after the people who made the orders, you don't promote any of the people who are responsible to head the fucking CIA.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    V1mjoshofalltrades
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Even if you don't go after the people who made the orders, you don't promote any of the people who are responsible to head the fucking CIA.

    The very same CIA which just agot caught lying about illegally spying on congress...?

  • TraceTrace GNU Terry Pratchett; GNU Gus; GNU Carrie Fisher; GNU Adam We Registered User regular
    from that article about Clinton and DC
    "This is a company town," says retired senator Howard Baker, once Ronald Reagan's chief of staff.

    that's certainly one way of putting it

  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Are we talking Company or company?

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Even if you don't go after the people who made the orders, you don't promote any of the people who are responsible to head the fucking CIA.

    I think the tragedy of the Obama presidency will be that it took him six years to get to the point his supporters were at when they first elected him.

    V1m
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Even if you don't go after the people who made the orders, you don't promote any of the people who are responsible to head the fucking CIA.

    I think the tragedy of the Obama presidency will be that it took him six years to get to the point his supporters were at when they first elected him.

    From an outside perspective, his major failing was that it took him far too long to realise that while he was someone who wanted to get stuff done, the GOP didn't care if stuff they wanted was done or not so long as nothing was done that he could claim the least credit for.

    GethjoshofalltradesHarry Dresdenchrishallett83SquigieNo-QuarterMan in the Mists
  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    V1m wrote: »
    Even if you don't go after the people who made the orders, you don't promote any of the people who are responsible to head the fucking CIA.

    I think the tragedy of the Obama presidency will be that it took him six years to get to the point his supporters were at when they first elected him.

    From an outside perspective, his major failing was that it took him far too long to realise that while he was someone who wanted to get stuff done, the GOP didn't care if stuff they wanted was done or not so long as nothing was done that he could claim the least credit for.

    And that this would persist even after he won reelection and that an attempt to smear democrats at large for ineffective governance was worth more then even attempting to govern.

    RedTide#1907 on Battle.net
    Come Overwatch with meeeee
    Geth
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    RedTide wrote: »
    V1m wrote: »
    Even if you don't go after the people who made the orders, you don't promote any of the people who are responsible to head the fucking CIA.

    I think the tragedy of the Obama presidency will be that it took him six years to get to the point his supporters were at when they first elected him.

    From an outside perspective, his major failing was that it took him far too long to realise that while he was someone who wanted to get stuff done, the GOP didn't care if stuff they wanted was done or not so long as nothing was done that he could claim the least credit for.

    And that this would persist even after he won reelection and that an attempt to smear democrats at large for ineffective governance was worth more then even attempting to govern.

    He should have taken note that the GOP and their real supporters - the very wealthy - were doing extremely well with the status quo.

    Phillishere on
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    One might suggest, however, that his tenacious bipartisanship in the face of republican recalcitrance helped to expose most of their horribleness. Sadly at the expense of getting things done, but it's much harder for the right to continue to push their exculsionary agenda without people finally noticing.

    chrishallett83Lovely
  • SpoitSpoit *twitch twitch* Registered User regular
    One might suggest, however, that his tenacious bipartisanship in the face of republican recalcitrance helped to expose most of their horribleness. Sadly at the expense of getting things done, but it's much harder for the right to continue to push their exculsionary agenda without people finally noticing.

    Lets be honest, after losing the supermajority in the senate, nothing was going to get done regardless

    steam_sig.png
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Even if you don't go after the people who made the orders, you don't promote any of the people who are responsible to head the fucking CIA.

    I think the tragedy of the Obama presidency will be that it took him six years to get to the point his supporters were at when they first elected him.

    Long term the tragedy will be that he normalized torture as a policy disagreement with that quote.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    It became a policy disagreement as soon as it was determined that no one was going to face a jury for it.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
    Krieghund
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Well, yeah, that too. He's just gone further in cementing it. But that's the long term tragedy of the Obama Presidency. The partisan shit is bad, but it's not really tragedy, it's farce. And it's not him betraying his stated positions.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • Harry DresdenHarry Dresden Registered User regular
    edited August 2014
    I'm having a difficult time conflating the term "patriot" with some poor bastard getting a car battery attached to his nutsack with alligator clips.

    I mean, I get why the president didn't go after old Bushy and friends. It'd take a lot of time and effort to take all of them down and then you'd set the precedent for going after former presidents. Republicans would never abuse that!

    Republicans don't need to do that, they went after Clinton when he was in office for lying about a blowjob. And Dems didn't lift a finger while Bush was in office and now they'll ignore his administration for doing what amounts to war crimes, what could go wrong with that plan?
    One might suggest, however, that his tenacious bipartisanship in the face of republican recalcitrance helped to expose most of their horribleness. Sadly at the expense of getting things done, but it's much harder for the right to continue to push their exculsionary agenda without people finally noticing.

    The last few years Bush was in office wasn't enough?
    Well, yeah, that too. He's just gone further in cementing it. But that's the long term tragedy of the Obama Presidency. The partisan shit is bad, but it's not really tragedy, it's farce. And it's not him betraying his stated positions.

    Hasn't Obama publicly stated he's against torture? Wouldn't not investigating torture allegations from the past government be a betrayal of that stance, never mind the ethical ramifications for letting torturers not only go free but have maintained employment in the government when Bush left.

    Harry Dresden on
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    One might suggest, however, that his tenacious bipartisanship in the face of republican recalcitrance helped to expose most of their horribleness. Sadly at the expense of getting things done, but it's much harder for the right to continue to push their exculsionary agenda without people finally noticing.

    The last few years Bush was in office wasn't enough?

    For whom? The people who voted for him because he was the kind of guy they'd have a beer with? The kind of people who are just now noticing how shitty their side is are the people who'd been clinging to 'both sides' arguments. Slowly, ever so slowly, some people are finally seeing that no matter how bad one side can be, the other is demonstrably worse.

This discussion has been closed.