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No one in town is trained to use The Giant Bomb Thread

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Stilts wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Uriel wrote: »
    The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.

    The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.

    The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.

    Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.

    Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.

    except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck

    Also, to me, everyone just being the optimal dps, optimal healer, and optimal tank isn't any more interesting than everyone being the optimal DPS.

    But when I have the "trifecta," I can do tanking or healing when I get bored of doing DPS.

    If everything is DPS, then I don't have much recourse if I get bored of doing DPS.

    I'd say the different weapons in Monster Hunter are just as different as switching to a different trifecta role in a standard MMO.

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Mixing focus equally between min maxing of character stats/customization and mastery of play is a REAL fine line to walk, it can easily be mixing oil and water IMO.

    Because you can end up half assing both.

    Uriel on
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    KwoaruKwoaru Confident Smirk Flawless Golden PecsRegistered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Uriel wrote: »
    The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.

    The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.

    The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.

    Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.

    Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.

    except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck

    Rift kinda got close to this, class roles were still defined but every class could spec to fill 2 or 3 roles and everybody could have 3+ specs set up that they could switch as needed

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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Uriel wrote: »
    The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.

    The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.

    The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.

    Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.

    Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.

    except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck

    Also, to me, everyone just being the optimal dps, optimal healer, and optimal tank isn't any more interesting than everyone being the optimal DPS.

    except in any good mmo there isn't optimal tank or dps or healer, there are different types of all of them and they interact differently based on group size and make up and encounter and gear levels etc.

    but when you have a gw2 system where its "ok we need x amount of healing so everyone put this skill on your bar and now everyone just use this weapon set and class because it does the most damage" its boring as fuck

    gcum67ktu9e4.pngimg
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Like, playing a DPS and playing a healer in WoW isn't really that different.

    Both are "don't stand in the fire" and "do optimal rotation" one is just targeting players and one is just targeting enemies.

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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Like, playing a DPS and playing a healer in WoW isn't really that different.

    Both are "don't stand in the fire" and "do optimal rotation" one is just targeting players and one is just targeting enemies.

    hahahahahahahahaha

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    vegeta_666vegeta_666 CanadaRegistered User regular
    Also, City of Heroes was super rad and I did not play enough of it before it disappeared.

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    Steam: abunchofdaftpunk | PSN: noautomobilesgo | Lastfm: sjchszeppelin | Backloggery: colincummings | 3DS FC: 1392-6019-0219 |
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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Uriel wrote: »
    The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.

    The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.

    The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.

    Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.

    Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.

    except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck
    Just don't surface any numbers.

    Bam problem solved mail me a check.

    monster hunter progression is entirely gear based

    for that to work in a large, open world mmo setting where your playing the same character for hundreds of hours, you'd either need an absolutely massive amount of content or make it not an mmo

    Monster hunter also isn't exactly a total character action game.

    Also isn't JUST about big numbers.

    It's about going in prepared, with the right equipment for the job.

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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Like, playing a DPS and playing a healer in WoW isn't really that different.

    Both are "don't stand in the fire" and "do optimal rotation" one is just targeting players and one is just targeting enemies.

    wow might have regressed to that by now for all i know

    but no, absolutely not

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    ZayZay yes i am zay Registered User regular
    i think you guys are missing the point of a character action game

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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    optimal healing rotation you say?

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Hullis wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Like, playing a DPS and playing a healer in WoW isn't really that different.

    Both are "don't stand in the fire" and "do optimal rotation" one is just targeting players and one is just targeting enemies.

    hahahahahahahahaha

    This is a nice response that is very conducive to productive conversation.

    I did both in WoW and this is my opinion on the matter. You can disagree if you like.

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    StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Uriel wrote: »
    The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.

    The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.

    The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.

    Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.

    Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.

    except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck

    Also, to me, everyone just being the optimal dps, optimal healer, and optimal tank isn't any more interesting than everyone being the optimal DPS.

    except in any good mmo there isn't optimal tank or dps or healer, there are different types of all of them and they interact differently based on group size and make up and encounter and gear levels etc.

    but when you have a gw2 system where its "ok we need x amount of healing so everyone put this skill on your bar and now everyone just use this weapon set and class because it does the most damage" its boring as fuck

    Also, even soloing GW2 just wasn't much fun for me.

    The story instances can be brutally hard, and the overworlds are filled with enemies that can pretty easily kill if you accidentally pull two or more of them (which kind of discouraged me from exploring the maps).

    IKknkhU.gif
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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Yeah uh.

    Healing is actually kinda different.

    DPS kinda just focus down the boss.

    Healers play a complex game of triage ala whack a mole.

    Uriel on
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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    just spam cure 3, its just that easy

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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    it's super reductive and wrong

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Zay wrote: »
    i think you guys are missing the point of a character action game

    1: Beat up bad guys

    2: Look fucking RADICAL DUDE

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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    and I did both in WoW too!

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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    I mean all video games are is press a bunch of buttons

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Jars wrote: »
    optimal healing rotation you say?

    Make sure your correct HoTs and buffs are up and spam your most mana efficient heal that will keep people from dying for the current amount of damaging incoming, for the most part.

    Pretty much the same as a DPS making sure their DoTs and buffs are up while you spam your best damage move for the current phase of the fight.

    Inquisitor on
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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    Stilts wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Uriel wrote: »
    The tank characters do wide sweeping attacks that pull in enemies.

    The DPS juggle chain enemies that they separate off the main groups.

    The healers go around solving puzzles to gather healing orbs to heal everyone.

    Nah might as well just ditch the trifecta entirely, it is old and tired.

    Everyone should just be different flavors of DPS and you should be able to clear any encounter with a team entirely composed of one class. Monster Hunter style.

    except gw2 did this and when everyone just does the most optimal dps its boring as fuck

    Also, to me, everyone just being the optimal dps, optimal healer, and optimal tank isn't any more interesting than everyone being the optimal DPS.

    except in any good mmo there isn't optimal tank or dps or healer, there are different types of all of them and they interact differently based on group size and make up and encounter and gear levels etc.

    but when you have a gw2 system where its "ok we need x amount of healing so everyone put this skill on your bar and now everyone just use this weapon set and class because it does the most damage" its boring as fuck

    Also, even soloing GW2 just wasn't much fun for me.

    The story instances can be brutally hard, and the overworlds are filled with enemies that can pretty easily kill if you accidentally pull two or more of them (which kind of discouraged me from exploring the maps).

    the limited movesets in gw2 is what bored me. why give me tons of skills if i can use like, 5? if its #esports, i don't give a shit, and if its for pve, everyone just uses the 5 best skills because there is only 1 role to fill

    gcum67ktu9e4.pngimg
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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    I never did get my priest past 80 and it is a totally different thing.

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    StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Like, playing a DPS and playing a healer in WoW isn't really that different.

    Both are "don't stand in the fire" and "do optimal rotation" one is just targeting players and one is just targeting enemies.

    Uh, I don't know what it's like in WoW, but I've played all three roles in FF14 and there are pretty huge differences in how I play each one.

    IKknkhU.gif
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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Also Holy was way too complicated holy shit so many spells.

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    TrippyJingTrippyJing Moses supposes his toeses are roses. But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered User regular
    I don't want to calculate shit, I want to go in and explore and go on adventures and occasionally interact with people.

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    you guys remember Matrix Online?

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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    optimal healing rotation you say?

    Make sure your correct HoTs and buffs are up and spam your most mana efficient heal that will keep people from dying for the current amount of damaging incoming, for the most part.

    Pretty much the same as a DPS making sure their DoTs and buffs are up while you spam your best damage move for the current phase of the fight.

    well i mean you can simplify it to "just do the best possible thing in every situation" and claim its a mindless rotation but i could say that your dps rotation in bayonetta is "do the most damage to enemies and don't get hit"

    gcum67ktu9e4.pngimg
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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Auto Assault?

    Tabula Rasa?

    Age of Conan?

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    WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    Uriel wrote: »
    Yeah uh.

    Healing is actually kinda different.

    DPS kinda just focus down the boss.

    Healers play a complex game of triage ala whack a mole.

    this is true at a base level, but a GOOD DPS manages threat, kites, and peels, amongst other things

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    JarsJars Registered User regular
    I guess if you played wow when all you did was spam a downranked heal or something?

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Hullis wrote: »
    Uriel wrote: »
    Yeah uh.

    Healing is actually kinda different.

    DPS kinda just focus down the boss.

    Healers play a complex game of triage ala whack a mole.

    this is true at a base level, but a GOOD DPS manages threat, kites, and peels, amongst other things

    I played a rogue so I rarely had to do any of that!

    I just had to stay alive and hit the thing.

    Which was kinda super boring and why I quit.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Hullis wrote: »
    Uriel wrote: »
    Yeah uh.

    Healing is actually kinda different.

    DPS kinda just focus down the boss.

    Healers play a complex game of triage ala whack a mole.

    this is true at a base level, but a GOOD DPS manages threat, kites, and peels, amongst other things

    WoW doesn't even have threat anymore.

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    StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    optimal healing rotation you say?

    Make sure your correct HoTs and buffs are up and spam your most mana efficient heal that will keep people from dying for the current amount of damaging incoming, for the most part.

    Pretty much the same as a DPS making sure their DoTs and buffs are up while you spam your best damage move for the current phase of the fight.

    Yeah, again, this is not at all the experience I've had with FF14 healing.

    It's kind of boring early on when you don't have many skills. But when you start getting into the level 30's, there basically is no healing rotation. You have toolbox of skills that are specialized for certain situations, and a huge part of being a good healer is recognizing not only which skill to use but also when to use it and who to use it on when everyone is taking damage.

    And since everything is on a 2.5 second global cooldown, each choice matters. A lot can change in just under 3 seconds.

    Stilts on
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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    I guess if you played wow when all you did was spam a downranked heal or something?

    You can only cast your max rank of a spell in WoW, these days, iirc.

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    StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    ...you do realize that trifecta-based MMOs other than WoW exist, right?

    IKknkhU.gif
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    ZayZay yes i am zay Registered User regular
    when i'm thinking of a raid-style boss for a CAG MMO, i'm picturing giant monsters, like one of the bosses in bayonetta, where everyone is climbing on it and doing sick ass combos and shit

    and thinking on it, the comparisons to my ideal CAG MMO and GW2 are absolutely apt. as are the comparions to monster hunter, to a degree. but the biggest, fundamental failing of GW2 is that there's no mechanics. every boss is an absolute spam fest, where you just hit v when the red circle appears below you, and that's a problem. a CAG needs mechanics, and if you just look at revengeance, or bayonetta, or dmc, i don't think it'd be hard to adapt those systems to accomodate 10 or so players. you don't need tanks or healers, but you need each player to be doing SOMETHING, ANYTHING that isn't identical to what the other player is doing.

    and, at the same time, yes, there would definitely be classes. dante/vergil is a good comparison for sure, because vergil plays way different from dante, and they both play drastically different from bayonetta. coming up with 4 or 5 different movesets would be rad. and maybe they could have cross-move type stuff like ffxiv does, i don't know, like maybe you have one class that's very ground focused, and by leveling up as a dante, they learn a launcher. or a class that's more burly and has longer, heavier attacks, but can learn a quick opener by leveling up as vergil.

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Oh man Rift Tanking was so fucking fun.

    I didn't get to do it enough.

    I got to like level 40 I think, I was in the mountain with the snow?

    Still, being a tank that just teleports around when I need to provoke things? That was great.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Stilts wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    optimal healing rotation you say?

    Make sure your correct HoTs and buffs are up and spam your most mana efficient heal that will keep people from dying for the current amount of damaging incoming, for the most part.

    Pretty much the same as a DPS making sure their DoTs and buffs are up while you spam your best damage move for the current phase of the fight.

    Yeah, again, this is not at all the experience I've had with FF14 healing.

    It's kind of boring early on when you don't have many skills. But when you start getting into the level 30's, there basically is no healing rotation. You have toolbox of skills that are specialized for certain situations, and a huge part of being a good healer is recognizing not only which skill to use but also when to use it and who to use it on when everyone is taking damage.

    And since everything is on a 2.5 second global cooldown, each choice matters. A lot can change in just under 3 seconds.

    Well, I can't speak to FF14 because I have never played it, which is why I specifically said WoW in my post.

    But basically in WoW you do whatever set up your class needs to make their heals optimal, while spamming whatever other heals you have, while doing whatever it is your specific class needs to do to keep their heals optimal, and save your cool downs for specific phases of the boss fight.

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    InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Stilts wrote: »
    ...you do realize that trifecta-based MMOs other than WoW exist, right?

    No, please explain the mysteries of these other, completely unknown, shadowy games to me in excruciating detail.

This discussion has been closed.