Options

Prison Facts "They" Don't Want You To Know About

1246725

Posts

  • Options
    agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    Could anything less than a presidential pardon free marijuana prisoners?

    ujav5b9gwj1s.png
  • Options
    EndEnd Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    agoaj wrote: »
    Could anything less than a presidential pardon free marijuana prisoners?

    if they were convicted under state law, then usually the governor of that state should be able to issue a pardon

    I have no idea how that works with relation to federal law though, since it's still illegal under that

    End on
    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
  • Options
    FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Depends on how you interprete the Ex-post-facto.
    At least when it comes to continental justice (Based on the napoleonic code mostly and it's how the law is practiced in most European nations, except GB) Ex-post-facto means that a change in law can only change things in favor of the sentenced. So if you've been sentenced for something that's no longer a crime you can apply for parole or a lessened sentence. You will also never be sentenced for anything that is no longer a crime, even if it was a crime when the deed was done.

    Of course the US base their system on Common Law so...

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • Options
    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Marijuana class? Your school sounds cooool.

    man it's SOOOO BADDDDD dude.

    like, it's all these shitty after-school special videos from fuckin 1992, so everyone has a goddamn mullet, and then it's all this paperwork that's like LIST THE REASONS WHY YOU'RE A DRUG-ADDICTED PIECE OF SHIT

    but i'm all done on april 12th! my time under the thumb of THE MAN will soon be at an end!

    oh. That's not I was imagining at all. Thought you were being taught how to roll tulips and act sober on the phone to the pizza place.

  • Options
    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    as if the pizza dude cares

  • Options
    WaltWalt Waller Arcane Enchanted Frozen ElectrifiedRegistered User regular
    as if the pizza dude cares

    he definitely doesn't

  • Options
    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    We don't care. But The Fear doesn't care that we don't care.

  • Options
    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Friend of mine got done for possession and had to go to magistrates court. He was bricking himself about it because he was in his car at the time and thought they might take away his license. He wrote up a speech to read about how regretful he was, and bought his first ever suit to wear to court. I went along for moral support.

    They gave him about an £80 fine, reduced from 120 because he showed such remorse. It was about half what he'd spent on the suit.

    We celebrated by getting stoned. Because what else were we gonna do.

  • Options
    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    you know what's always awesome? knowing your delivery guy. i've had like six buddies who delivered pizza at one time or another and it was always a treat for them to stop by and hang out for a minute.

    you know.

    hang out.

  • Options
    MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    I'm sorry but if you throw a person in prison for some pot and then don't let them out when you make pot not-illegal, you're a huge douchebag.

    I mean, why keep people in prison for something that's not illegal? The pedantic principle that they broke the law?

  • Options
    AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    from an ethical standpoint, i think prison should be rehabilitation and not punishment, and you dont need to be rehabilitated for something that is no longer illegal

    from an economical and practical standpoint, you dont have to spend as much money and will have more room if you release prisoners who committed crimes that are no longer illegal

    but well you know that's naive of me

  • Options
    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    I'm sorry but if you throw a person in prison for some pot and then don't let them out when you make pot not-illegal, you're a huge douchebag.

    I mean, why keep people in prison for something that's not illegal? The pedantic principle that they broke the law?

    Just have governors sign pardons for every person ever convicted of simple possession

    I'm not sure what the procedure is for blanket mass pardons but I'm sure something can be legally figured out if rich people can pay less taxes than their servants

  • Options
    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    I'm sorry but if you throw a person in prison for some pot and then don't let them out when you make pot not-illegal, you're a huge douchebag.

    I mean, why keep people in prison for something that's not illegal? The pedantic principle that they broke the law?

    for the exact same reason you don't put people in prison for doing something that was previously legal and now is not

  • Options
    MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    I'm sorry but if you throw a person in prison for some pot and then don't let them out when you make pot not-illegal, you're a huge douchebag.

    I mean, why keep people in prison for something that's not illegal? The pedantic principle that they broke the law?

    Just have governors sign pardons for every person ever convicted of simple possession

    I'm not sure what the procedure is for blanket mass pardons but I'm sure something can be legally figured out if rich people can pay less taxes than their servants

    It's all just pomp and circumstance. Pot's not illegal anymore? Open the door and let the guy out.

    Hell, if you want to add some ceremony to it, admit that it used to be a bad thing and that you've rethought your stance on it and apologize for the imprisonment.

  • Options
    Captain KCaptain K Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    I'm sorry but if you throw a person in prison for some pot and then don't let them out when you make pot not-illegal, you're a huge douchebag.

    I mean, why keep people in prison for something that's not illegal? The pedantic principle that they broke the law?

    Just have governors sign pardons for every person ever convicted of simple possession

    I'm not sure what the procedure is for blanket mass pardons but I'm sure something can be legally figured out if rich people can pay less taxes than their servants

    The system making this possible is the same system that has for-profit prisons locked into decades-long contracts in many states.

    By which I mean to point out that, yeah, while a bit of simple logic says that governors in every state legalizing possession should immediately pardon everyone convicted of possession, I wouldn't hold your breath on that happening any time soon.

    America, fuck yeah.

    Captain K on
  • Options
    Bluedude152Bluedude152 Registered User regular
    So you are saying whenever something is made illegal we should round them up and throw them in prison as well right

    They knowingly broke the law. It being illegal now doesn't change that they went out of their way to break the law in the past

    p0a2ody6sqnt.jpg
  • Options
    MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    So you are saying whenever something is made illegal we should round them up and throw them in prison as well right

    They knowingly broke the law. It being illegal now doesn't change that they went out of their way to break the law in the past

    Oh, yeah, it's totally the same.

    totally.

  • Options
    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    Captain K wrote: »
    I'm sorry but if you throw a person in prison for some pot and then don't let them out when you make pot not-illegal, you're a huge douchebag.

    I mean, why keep people in prison for something that's not illegal? The pedantic principle that they broke the law?

    Just have governors sign pardons for every person ever convicted of simple possession

    I'm not sure what the procedure is for blanket mass pardons but I'm sure something can be legally figured out if rich people can pay less taxes than their servants

    The system making this possible is the same system that has for-profit prisons locked into decades-long contracts in many states.

    By which I mean to point out that, yeah, while a bit of simple logic says that governors in every state legalizing possession should immediately pardon everyone convicted of possession, I wouldn't hold your breath on that happening any time soon.

    America, fuck yeah.

    Right, well, in a just world, we wouldn't give a shit about what a person does to their body if they aren't harming others

    But we don't live in that world

    We live in a world where a lot of people need to distract themselves from their own shortcomings by paying real close attention to what other people are doing that they don't like

  • Options
    Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    also there's the fact that often people who go to prison for marijuana become addicted to much harder drugs while inside. there is not a SINGLE drug-free prison in America. meth and coke are popular because they're easy to get away with doing.

    there's also the fact that the wildly vast majority of pot offenders are completely non-violent "criminals", making them targets for violence and sexual abuse at the hands of other inmates.

    so you take some peacenick stoner and throw him into a cage with a bunch of murderers and rapists and OH SHIT WHAT HAPPENED WHY IS HE SUDDENLY A HARDENED CRIMINAL WITH GANG AFFILIATIONS AND KNOWLEDGE HE WOULD NOT OTHERWISE HAVE HAD WHAT HAPPENNNEEEEEEDDDDDD

  • Options
    MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    edited March 2014
    For profit prisons are basically the scariest thing because it creates a demand for prisoners.

    Metalbourne on
  • Options
    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    Something should only be considered a crime if its act poses a threat to society. If it's no longer considered a threat, why keep those who once did it locked up?

    Being openly homosexual used to be illegal. Does anyone honestly think the people imprisoned for it should not have been pardoned once it wasn't any more?

  • Options
    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Something should only be considered a crime if its act poses a threat to society. If it's no longer considered a threat, why keep those who once did it locked up?

    Being openly homosexual used to be illegal. Does anyone honestly think the people imprisoned for it should not have been pardoned once it wasn't any more?

    yes

    I mean, not me, but somebody thinks that, because they are an asshole

  • Options
    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    edited March 2014
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    I'm sorry but if you throw a person in prison for some pot and then don't let them out when you make pot not-illegal, you're a huge douchebag.

    I mean, why keep people in prison for something that's not illegal? The pedantic principle that they broke the law?

    for the exact same reason you don't put people in prison for doing something that was previously legal and now is not

    the reason you don't put people in prison for doing something that was previously legal and now is not is "because that is obviously unjust"

    are you making the case that it is unjust to set free prisoners when their crime is decriminalized?

    Shorty on
  • Options
    JoeUserJoeUser Forum Santa Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    I'm sorry but if you throw a person in prison for some pot and then don't let them out when you make pot not-illegal, you're a huge douchebag.

    I mean, why keep people in prison for something that's not illegal? The pedantic principle that they broke the law?

    for the exact same reason you don't put people in prison for doing something that was previously legal and now is not

    the reason you don't put people in prison for doing something that was previously legal and now is not is "because that is obviously unjust"

    are you making the case that it is unjust to set free prisoners when their crime is decriminalized?

    Schrodinger's Prisoner's Dilemma

  • Options
    Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    So you are saying whenever something is made illegal we should round them up and throw them in prison as well right

    They knowingly broke the law. It being illegal now doesn't change that they went out of their way to break the law in the past

    Oh, yeah, it's totally the same.

    totally.

    like, seriously

    one of these involves predicting the future to model your behavior and the other involves a culture no longer thinking the thing in question warrants jail time

    these are not two sides of the same coin or something

    f2ojmwh3geue.png
  • Options
    PeenPeen Registered User regular
    We'd better quit releasing POWs too, they fought in that war and just because it's over doesn't mean they should get out, my goodness.

    Wait, we already do that? Nevermind, carry on.

  • Options
    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    I never really understood the logic on that one

    Is it, "But if we set them free, it sends the message that you can break the law and suffer reduced consequences if the tide eventually turns against that law! Next thing you know, everyone's gonna start robbing and killing, because maybe that'll be legal soon too!"

    I mean seriously what is the harm in releasing non-violent offenders whose crimes don't even exist any more

    Who is hurt there

  • Options
    MetalbourneMetalbourne Inside a cluster b personalityRegistered User regular
    So you are saying whenever something is made illegal we should round them up and throw them in prison as well right

    They knowingly broke the law. It being illegal now doesn't change that they went out of their way to break the law in the past

    Oh, yeah, it's totally the same.

    totally.

    like, seriously

    one of these involves predicting the future to model your behavior and the other involves a culture no longer thinking the thing in question warrants jail time

    these are not two sides of the same coin or something

    The big issue is that people think that justice is a thing. There's really no such thing as justice. If someone wrongs you, there's nothing you can do to them to unwrong it. At some point on the quest for justice you become worse than the person who wronged you.

    Yeah, by carting around some pot, someone broke our laws. Regardless of why they did it, once pot becomes legal, the crime the person comitted was "breaking our laws"

    Which means we're adult enough as a society to say, "okay, maybe this wasn't as dangerous as we originally thought," but not adult enough to say, "sorry, we were wrong for imprisoning you for it"

  • Options
    Brovid HasselsmofBrovid Hasselsmof [Growling historic on the fury road] Registered User regular
    The law is hurt. And you have to respect the law even if you think it's wrong now because it was made by... some people in the past who we no longer agree with. I got nothin.

  • Options
    Theodore FlooseveltTheodore Floosevelt proud parent of eight beautiful girls and shalmelo dorne (which is currently being ruled by a woman (awesome role model for my daughters)) #dornedadRegistered User regular
    The law is hurt. And you have to respect the law even if you think it's wrong now because it was made by... some people in the past who we no longer agree with. I got nothin.

    Justice has been blinded, do you understand that? She will never see again. And what, we're just supposed to let you walk???

    f2ojmwh3geue.png
  • Options
    PwnanObrienPwnanObrien He's right, life sucks. Registered User regular
  • Options
    Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    For profit prisons are basically the scariest thing because it creates a demand for prisoners.

    Q: What's worse than the military industrial complex?

    A: The prison industrial complex holy fuck what the shit how did this ever even happen? What's that you say? Rich people wanted to get richer? Oh. I see. Same as it ever was.

  • Options
    MrMonroeMrMonroe passed out on the floor nowRegistered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    I'm sorry but if you throw a person in prison for some pot and then don't let them out when you make pot not-illegal, you're a huge douchebag.

    I mean, why keep people in prison for something that's not illegal? The pedantic principle that they broke the law?

    for the exact same reason you don't put people in prison for doing something that was previously legal and now is not

    I'm sorry, three things here:

    1) A law that makes something legal which previously was not must include provisions to lessen or grant clemency for the sentences of current prisoners, which none of these laws do, and

    2) such laws would perfectly Constitutional, retrospective immunity from criminal liability would be an act of clemency rather than ex post. Congress has passed loads of these and no one has ever successfully challenged one that I can find.

    (State v. Arlin, 39 N. H. 179; Com. v. Wyman, 12 Cush. 237 ; Hartung v. People, 22 N. Y. 105.)

    3) even if we granted that such a law were unconstitutional, who would have standing to challenge it? If State law grants clemency to prisoners who are in on possession charges, there's no aggrieved party to challenge the law. There's the prisoner and the State who's laws just set him free, and neither seem like likely litigants.

  • Options
    Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Jackie Registered User regular
    I can wrap my head around why possibly you wouldn't just blanket release people. That being that breaking a law is still innately problematic in the same way that, even if justified, resisting the police can be problematic.

    But I don't think the need to keep respect for the system is enough of a cause to hold onto people who haven't actually committed a crime that hurts someone and is no longer illegal.

  • Options
    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    I'm sorry but if you throw a person in prison for some pot and then don't let them out when you make pot not-illegal, you're a huge douchebag.

    I mean, why keep people in prison for something that's not illegal? The pedantic principle that they broke the law?

    for the exact same reason you don't put people in prison for doing something that was previously legal and now is not

    I'm sorry, three things here:

    1) A law that makes something legal which previously was not must include provisions to lessen or grant clemency for the sentences of current prisoners, which none of these laws do, and

    2) such laws would perfectly Constitutional, retrospective immunity from criminal liability would be an act of clemency rather than ex post. Congress has passed loads of these and no one has ever successfully challenged one that I can find.

    (State v. Arlin, 39 N. H. 179; Com. v. Wyman, 12 Cush. 237 ; Hartung v. People, 22 N. Y. 105.)

    3) even if we granted that such a law were unconstitutional, who would have standing to challenge it? If State law grants clemency to prisoners who are in on possession charges, there's no aggrieved party to challenge the law. There's the prisoner and the State who's laws just set him free, and neither seem like likely litigants.

    regarding 3)

    seems like the sort of thing a state attorney general with designs on running for governor on a GOP ticket would do

  • Options
    PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    TankHammer wrote: »
    I know this thread became about something else but what exactly was the snake oil the guy in the OP was selling?

    Oil.

    From snakes.

    It's spicier than olive oil but with half the fat!

    Fun fact: if you are bitten by a snake, trying to suck the poison out will do absolutely nothing.

    no

    no if you can get enough of the venom out it can help a lot

    it depends on the snake, are bitten, amount injected etc...

    Naw, it's a myth. If you're bitten, it's best to just stay calm and get yourself to a hospital.

    Another fun fact: for North American snakes there is only one type of anti venom, so don't bother trying to catch the snake for identification.

    Also, it can cost upwards of $80,000 to get antivenin at a hospital depending on your insurance. A veterinarian may be able to sell you a dose to use at home for your animal, and surprise, it's the same antivenin at less than a fraction of the cost! Like, $35-50. That's a lot less than $80,000.

    Spider antivenin is a much different can of worms, though, as far as I know.

  • Options
    turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    I went to college for Criminal Justice. The number of people I went to college with that sincerely believed that "We should just throw all the prisoners in together and drop a pallet of food in once a day" or "DT should just be locking the dude in a cell till he gets over it" or "prisoners should have nothing but their cell, a toilet, and food" is staggeringly high. The worst one was this big, ex-marines dick bag that thought we should just kill people for any violent crimes.

    Whole lot of people don't have a shred of empathy for anyone they don't personally know.

    X22wmuF.jpg
  • Options
    WaltWalt Waller Arcane Enchanted Frozen ElectrifiedRegistered User regular
    turtleant wrote: »
    I went to college for Criminal Justice. The number of people I went to college with that sincerely believed that "We should just throw all the prisoners in together and drop a pallet of food in once a day" or "DT should just be locking the dude in a cell till he gets over it" or "prisoners should have nothing but their cell, a toilet, and food" is staggeringly high. The worst one was this big, ex-marines dick bag that thought we should just kill people for any violent crimes.

    Whole lot of people don't have a shred of empathy for anyone they don't personally know.

    Ugh, we should just kill people like that

  • Options
    turtleantturtleant Gunpla Dad is the best.Registered User regular
    I need to share this and this is the closest thing to a government thread. The secret service is sorta kinda related to prisons

    How a Comedy Article Got Me Placed On the No-Fly List

    X22wmuF.jpg
  • Options
    V1mV1m Registered User regular
    Pinfeldorf wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    TankHammer wrote: »
    I know this thread became about something else but what exactly was the snake oil the guy in the OP was selling?

    Oil.

    From snakes.

    It's spicier than olive oil but with half the fat!

    Fun fact: if you are bitten by a snake, trying to suck the poison out will do absolutely nothing.

    no

    no if you can get enough of the venom out it can help a lot

    it depends on the snake, are bitten, amount injected etc...

    Naw, it's a myth. If you're bitten, it's best to just stay calm and get yourself to a hospital.

    Another fun fact: for North American snakes there is only one type of anti venom, so don't bother trying to catch the snake for identification.

    Also, it can cost upwards of $80,000 to get antivenin at a hospital depending on your insurance. A veterinarian may be able to sell you a dose to use at home for your animal, and surprise, it's the same antivenin at less than a fraction of the cost! Like, $35-50. That's a lot less than $80,000.

    Spider antivenin is a much different can of worms, though, as far as I know.

    Indeed it is. I'll break it down for you: don't get bitten by one of the bad spiders.

    And most especially do not look at any images while google searching up the subject.

    Really.

    Don't.

Sign In or Register to comment.