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Risen from a 60 million year slumber, the SE++ [Warhammer 40000] thread

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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    So, I moved to Taiwan last November.

    And my boss is this guy from South Africa.

    And it turns out he's huge into WH40K

    And his buddy is even worse into it and has multiple armies

    So my question I guess is

    are Eldar as shitty in table top as they were in the RTS, because I would like to play Eldar, but also I would like to kill some dudes.

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    CorporateLogoCorporateLogo The toilet knows how I feelRegistered User regular
    Eldar are one of the top tier armies right now

    Do not have a cow, mortal.

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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    That is very pleasant news, although I'm not sure if they're running the latest rule set?
    Frankly I'm not even clear on how changes to the rules fly with dudes have been playing for a while.

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    Halos Nach TariffHalos Nach Tariff Can you blame me? I'm too famous.Registered User regular
    Find out what rules they're playing first I guess; under the latest rules Eldar are crazy-good, previous rules somewhat less so.
    The current rules are a little, uh, bad, sort of, so if they're just playing casually between themselves they might well be using some of the older ones instead.

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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    edited January 2015
    I will see if I can get a straight answer. I seem to recall they had hard copy codicies but there were also tablets about.

    What is "bad" about the current rules?

    sarukun on
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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    I need to start putting my orcs, tau and space marines together but I have no idea where to begin and feel very overwhelmed already.

    And that before we get into painting :(

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    Halos Nach TariffHalos Nach Tariff Can you blame me? I'm too famous.Registered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    What is "bad" about the current rules?

    This is personal opinion of course; when I say bad here I'm mostly saying I don't enjoy them, I'm sure plenty of people think they are fine!

    There are a lot of hold-over mechanics from old systems which don't really play to well with what they're trying to do currently, so you have a lot of clunky rules tying down a game which is, according to the book, designed to be cinematic in scope.
    There's an overemphasis on crazy-huge battles, with a bunch of super heavy units now being technically legal for standard play, rather than requiring opponents permission, which can imbalance things pretty heavily.
    Combat is, kinda redundant for the most part, even with armies which are perceived as combat heavy like Tyranids or Orks your generally better off just squeezing in as much high power shooting as possible, which can lead to games just being a case of no one moving and throwing missiles at each other til someone dies, which, I dunno, that can be fine I guess, it just means all these cool combat rules and units don't see much play sometimes.
    Oh, and there are some strange oversights, like, there are no rules for ruins or buildings with multiple levels, like, none, as far as the game is concerned those extra floors don't exist, you can technically just drive a tank up there and park it on the roof, no problem. I don't know if it was for streamlining or what but there's some strange stuff like that.

    Overall I'd say the latest rules are fun, but they don't make for a particularly good game, like, it's easy to just break things or weigh them in your favour with very little effort. With a bit of house-ruling or player-interaction it's fine it just depends on who you're playing with I guess.

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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    there aren't rules for buildings with multiple floors? that's weird, I was pretty sure there used to be

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    there aren't rules for buildings with multiple floors? that's weird, I was pretty sure there used to be

    there were rules for units that were taller than others

    each iteration of this game tries to streamline stuff more, and they constantly fuck things up by never playtesting anything ever

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    AnzekayAnzekay Registered User regular
    edited January 2015
    My greatest sadness regarded the newest edition is that a friend of mine gave me a really sweet set of cards with all the codex physic powers on them as a gift a couple of weeks before the latest Tyranids codex came out.

    And then it turned out Tyranids don't get to use those psychic powers anymore, thus meaning I had no use for the cards.

    I really wasn't a fan of the new codex overall, anyway, so I didn't end up buying it and kinda stopped playing, but it just sucked to have a really cool gift go to waste like that.

    Anzekay on
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    Halos Nach TariffHalos Nach Tariff Can you blame me? I'm too famous.Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    there aren't rules for buildings with multiple floors? that's weird, I was pretty sure there used to be

    Oh yes, there were rules, once, but that whole section is missing from the latest book. It's very strange. I mean, it's easy enough to say, 'alright, let's just use the old ruins rules' if you know them, but that's not much of a solution.

    And yeah, the latest Tyranid book is, bad, and that's coming off the previous codex which wasn't too hot either. You can do some stuff with it but for the most part that stuff is just 'take as many flying Hive Tyrants as possible,' which is boring both for yourself and your opponents.

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    PiptheFairPiptheFair Frequently not in boats. Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    there aren't rules for buildings with multiple floors? that's weird, I was pretty sure there used to be

    Oh yes, there were rules, once, but that whole section is missing from the latest book. It's very strange. I mean, it's easy enough to say, 'alright, let's just use the old ruins rules' if you know them, but that's not much of a solution.

    And yeah, the latest Tyranid book is, bad, and that's coming off the previous codex which wasn't too hot either. You can do some stuff with it but for the most part that stuff is just 'take as many flying Hive Tyrants as possible,' which is boring both for yourself and your opponents.

    keeping with 4th editions 'take all the monstrous creatures' tradtions

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Didn't they take out most of the terrain rules and put them into a supplement? Like they do with a lot of stuff that should be in the main rulebook and codices?

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    ExtreaminatusExtreaminatus Go forth and amplify, the Noise Marines are here!Registered User regular
    Elaro wrote: »
    So I created the "SE++ Space Marine John Tearers" group on steam for organizing Space Marine games, DoW games, and so on. It's invite only, so friend me or any other member of the group (which is just @Sir Headless VII‌ at the moment). Okay, now the thread can go back into dormancy until EC comes out.

    Friend request sent!

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    DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    Does anyone else think it's crazy how much the presence of Warhammer and Warhammer 40k on nerdy internet places has shrunk over the past 3 years or so?

    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

    https://medium.com/@alascii
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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    I haven't noticed because my own interest dropped off around the same time. Maybe the two are linked?

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    honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    The new Solitaire raised my interest a bit, I have to say.

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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I bought some Space Marines

    It's unlikely that I will ever get the time to play 40K given that I am playing Infinity, Dystopian Wars, Firestorm Armada and more right now

    But it's still nice to build their plastic kits

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    Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    Feels more or less like a lot of the fans they got post Dawn of War have largely moved on for various reasons.

    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    See I am from the north of England, which is a massive heartland for tabletop gaming.

    Warhammer world is an hour away on the train, when I was a kid there was two GWs within the distance of a bus, and if you are willing to drive, three or four in the local county area. There's two independent stores in the centre of town, one of which is a gaming centre with enough space for 12 games of 40K at once which holds a full 24 man tournament every month or so and it fills out every time (and they charge for that, man)

    I can honestly say that if I wanted to be play literally any game, I could get it through my local independent store, get someone else to buy some stuff, and play some games. We just got the new Batman mini game in the local club and that is now a thing, Malifaux, DZC, Warmahordes...

    And as far as I can tell, 40K is still massively popular. The most popular game by far and away, not to say other games aren't popular, but 40K is a game that most people will plat, or at least have a few armies for sitting around if they don't play any more (like me).

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    HunteraHuntera Rude Boy Registered User regular
    i don't think I could afford to buy 40k models just for painting like I used to is my issue with it nowadays

    I don't think I ever played a game, but that was my jam early in high school was to relax after coming home with a podcast and paint some space marines or something

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    sarukunsarukun RIESLING OCEANRegistered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    What is "bad" about the current rules?

    This is personal opinion of course; when I say bad here I'm mostly saying I don't enjoy them, I'm sure plenty of people think they are fine!

    There are a lot of hold-over mechanics from old systems which don't really play to well with what they're trying to do currently, so you have a lot of clunky rules tying down a game which is, according to the book, designed to be cinematic in scope.
    There's an overemphasis on crazy-huge battles, with a bunch of super heavy units now being technically legal for standard play, rather than requiring opponents permission, which can imbalance things pretty heavily.
    Combat is, kinda redundant for the most part, even with armies which are perceived as combat heavy like Tyranids or Orks your generally better off just squeezing in as much high power shooting as possible, which can lead to games just being a case of no one moving and throwing missiles at each other til someone dies, which, I dunno, that can be fine I guess, it just means all these cool combat rules and units don't see much play sometimes.
    Oh, and there are some strange oversights, like, there are no rules for ruins or buildings with multiple levels, like, none, as far as the game is concerned those extra floors don't exist, you can technically just drive a tank up there and park it on the roof, no problem. I don't know if it was for streamlining or what but there's some strange stuff like that.

    Overall I'd say the latest rules are fun, but they don't make for a particularly good game, like, it's easy to just break things or weigh them in your favour with very little effort. With a bit of house-ruling or player-interaction it's fine it just depends on who you're playing with I guess.

    That sounds pretty much like what I expect from GW, a bunch of crazy silliness and no actual game design chops to speak of.

    Still sounds like a hoot for an afternoon of beer, chips, and Dakka.

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    edited January 2015
    The core mechanics of the game are fun I think (that is their shooting resolution mechanic and such) and some of the jank is charming actually. but they bog it down with so much bullshit just because they put out a new version every few years so they can sell you more expensive books and more expensive plastic shit.

    It's the kind of game I'd love to play save for the business model they run.

    Uriel on
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    SnowbearSnowbear Registered User regular
    I rreally loved the DoW games and in general like the setting of 40K. I got into it when my cousin got a battle box and I ended up buying a one box of Space Wolves. But man I cannot justify to myself spending over a hundred dollars to build an army that I'm most likely never going to use. I do not like GW's business model at all

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    UrielUriel Registered User regular
    Snowbear wrote: »
    I rreally loved the DoW games and in general like the setting of 40K. I got into it when my cousin got a battle box and I ended up buying a one box of Space Wolves. But man I cannot justify to myself spending over a hundred dollars to build an army that I'm most likely never going to use. I do not like GW's business model at all

    Over 'a hundred' dollars is kinda lowballing it TBH

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    Der Waffle MousDer Waffle Mous Blame this on the misfortune of your birth. New Yark, New Yark.Registered User regular
    Kinda nothing.

    "Over a hundred dollars" basically gets you you the absolute minimum you need to satisfy your force org chart.

    Steam PSN: DerWaffleMous Origin: DerWaffleMous Bnet: DerWaffle#1682
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    ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    edited January 2015
    so for those of you who really like 40k because the IP is siiiiiiick but don't want to play the tabletop game because the rules are distinctly un-siiiiiick (or whatever your legitimate beef is), you should try out muhfuckin' CONQUEST

    http://fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=261&enmi=Warhammer 40,000: Conquest

    it's the latest in FFG's line of Living Card Games

    the way it works is, you buy a core set of cards that include everything you and one other person need to play a game

    then if you like it, you can buy expansions, which come with all the copies of every card in the set--this means there's no hunting for specific cards as there is in CCGs like Magic and Pokemon

    as for the game itself, it's super fun

    it's basically a game of board control with two victory conditions--capturing planets (represented by YET MORE CARDS WOOO) with certain symbols on them, or killing the enemy warlord

    you deploy units to planets, play support cards, then have command struggles over planetary resorces, and then GET STUCK IN AND WRECK FACE, it's super fun

    the deckbuilding component is also really great

    first you pick your faction (as of right now it's got Astra Militarum, Space Marines, Tao, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Chaos, and Orks, with Tyranids and Necrons to be released at some point in the future)

    then you pick your warlord, who comes with their own set of eight cards to build a full deck of 50 around (because the game is still new, some factions still only have one warlord you can pick)

    then you look at the org chart and decide which of two possible allied armies' cards you want to use in your deck (for example, Space Marines are adjacent to Tao and Astra Militarum on the chart, so they can use non-loyal cards from one or the other, but not both)

    then you just put all the rad shit in

    it's great, ALL OF YOU SHOULD PLAY IT

    here's a video that shows how actually playing it works

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EXfeEGuxwk

    Shorty on
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    SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I'd never play 40K competitively

    lord can you imagine

    40K for me is about the background and hobby aspects which then result in you making a cool, themed, personal army that you play against other cool, themed, personal armies in fun scenarios

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    Halos Nach TariffHalos Nach Tariff Can you blame me? I'm too famous.Registered User regular
    edited January 2015
    I have been to precisely one 40K tournament, it was predictably pretty dire, but hey, there was a bar at least.
    The group I play with is pretty competitive, but we don't really do much in the way of 40K anymore 'cos the balance is so screwy it's tricky to set up a 'for fun' game without a whole bunch of stringent guidelines.

    Like, one persons idea of a 'fun, themed army' can just coincidentally be way stronger than another persons 'fun, themed army' by the virtue of the models or books preferred, which normally winds up being no fun for anyone.

    Halos Nach Tariff on
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    GvzbgulGvzbgul Registered User regular
    I enjoy playing with friends. We had large armies but preferred smaller games as it meant that you could field a variety of armies (also, long games are teeeedious). The fun was in trying to find that combo with the models you had that could easily defeat your opponents models. You knew what you were up against and so it became kinda like a puzzle. With the occasional surprise new purchase.

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    valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    Risen from the dead like the Necron menace...

    I work slow, but I finally finished something though, and I'm very proud of them. This is my first ever, finished, squad of Imperial Fist tactical marines. I realized after I took these photos that I did not put any squad markings or numerals on them, and part of that is the decals don't have numbers small enough to put on there. And since I've put the grass on, I'm not sure I can go back now and do more decals, if I did have them. After thinking about it though, I may just leave them off.

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    ElaroElaro Apologetic Registered User regular
    Children's rights are human rights.
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