Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

My Little [Programming] Thread: Debugging is Magic

24567100

Posts

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Still Java though, I don't even.

    I'd rather have seen it written in node or something jesus christ.
    The fuck? Java is a great choice for a lot of programming applications. It's been fifteen years since it was slow, get over it.

    is that why it needs twice as many cores with almost twice as much clock speed to do equivalent work to iOS?

    Stagnant language, less optimized than C# through mono, C/C++ are better options in any environment other than "need RAD UI".

    Java is the poorest choice in a sea of poor choices.

    Ladies.
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Hence: Java :rotate:

    Ladies.
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Incindium wrote: »
    Wireshark to see what is happening when you are trying to connect. You won't see any of the actual raw data since its SSL encrypted over HTTPS but you should be able to see what the response codes to your login request are.

    Whenever I use https + IP address IE just says page cannot be displayed. No real error code. Also I'm not sure if I can install Wireshark or not...

  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    I believe what happened is at one point there was an Agent system that worked, and then they realized it didn't scale at all

    and then they reduced the map size to force it to scale

    and then that didn't work either

    and then the project was due to ship in two months

    so they just ripped it all out

    again, Ocean Quigley is a fraud and I am surprised nobody in the press held him accountable

    Polygon reported that he quit because "EA screwed the launch"

    no. you screwed the game, idiot

    Might even be simpler than that.

    I bet it was, "no one's even going to notice shit like this, why bother implementing it?" The the scaling issue where 1 citizen represents like 1000 is an issue probably with how they handle dealing with the Java server.

    You figure that's a good 750 megs of data you'd have to be transferring every few seconds. The distributed system never even made sense, my i7 can handle more than the type of computer time they're going to give me from their system. And I've got 8+ gigs to work with.

    Totally a masquerade for anti-piracy in its finest.

    No because there were actual videos of the agent system working and videos of Wil Wright talking about it working

    and yeah the distributed system was always nonsense, but we found out later that the server part was never doing any agent simulation at all, just managing resource flows within regions (which almost makes sense)

    bowena5ehren
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Incindium wrote: »
    Wireshark to see what is happening when you are trying to connect. You won't see any of the actual raw data since its SSL encrypted over HTTPS but you should be able to see what the response codes to your login request are.

    Whenever I use https + IP address IE just says page cannot be displayed. No real error code. Also I'm not sure if I can install Wireshark or not...

    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/29395282/#Comment_29395282

    Ladies.
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    It's also still pretty slow. And a pile of shit. And wants to install ask toolbar.

    The last thing alone is enough to crucify it.

    Ladies.
    Campychrishallett83
  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Still Java though, I don't even.

    I'd rather have seen it written in node or something jesus christ.
    The fuck? Java is a great choice for a lot of programming applications. It's been fifteen years since it was slow, get over it.

    is that why it needs twice as many cores with almost twice as much clock speed to do equivalent work to iOS?
    Stagnant language, less optimized than C# through mono, C/C++ are better options in any environment other than "need RAD UI".

    Java is the poorest choice in a sea of poor choices.
    http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

    #2 most used programming language

    Check and mate.

    More prolific, better third party support, actually can find professional developers who program it.

    Also, now I remember why I stopped following this thread.

  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    edited March 2014
    jdarksun wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Still Java though, I don't even.

    I'd rather have seen it written in node or something jesus christ.
    The fuck? Java is a great choice for a lot of programming applications. It's been fifteen years since it was slow, get over it.

    is that why it needs twice as many cores with almost twice as much clock speed to do equivalent work to iOS?
    Stagnant language, less optimized than C# through mono, C/C++ are better options in any environment other than "need RAD UI".

    Java is the poorest choice in a sea of poor choices.
    http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

    #2 most used programming language

    Check and mate.

    More prolific, better third party support, actually can find professional developers who program it.

    Also, now I remember why I stopped following this thread.

    because you're argumentative for no reason?

    Jasconius on
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    But are you sure you don't also want to install McAfee Security Scan PlusTM?

    Battle.net: Spawnbroker#1471
    Steam: Spawnbroker
    Final Fantasy XIV: Spawn Broken
    bowenNightslyrchrishallett83
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
  • EndEnd Registered User regular
    there's reasons to dislike java for technical/style reasons, but I hate the ask toolbar business way more than anything about the language itself

    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpgsteam~tinythumb.png
    gavindelPapillon
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Also the metrics for that is lul.

    Ladies.
  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Registered User regular
    Well, we are admittedly kinda dicks about a widely-used programming-language that makes a lot of people money and employs them and if used properly can do some grand things.

    Of course, that "used properly" thing is often the sticking-point.

    Really though, Java does feel slower (I don't have any benchmarks), and I swear to goodness every GUI that is java-based seems ugly as FUCK and doesn't match the system it's running on. I have to think that's because "multi-platform!" but if your product looks like crap... <shrug>

  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Eh I like Java. I can see why people wouldn't like it... Don't take it too personal @jdarksun‌

  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Incindium wrote: »
    Wireshark to see what is happening when you are trying to connect. You won't see any of the actual raw data since its SSL encrypted over HTTPS but you should be able to see what the response codes to your login request are.

    Whenever I use https + IP address IE just says page cannot be displayed. No real error code. Also I'm not sure if I can install Wireshark or not...

    http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/29395282/#Comment_29395282

    I'll have to look into that... I really have no idea what I'm doing when I'm trying to troubleshoot this problem. It's a Linux server and it's all command line so I'm wayyyyyy out of my comfort zone on this.

  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Hahaha wowwww... Latest 'security' update on my laptop removed my ability to change the proxy server. Awesome! Now when I work from home I don't have a choice to connect to their shitty VPN to get things done! YAY!!

  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    I also can't remote into one of the machines anymore from home now since it is trying to go through the proxy that doesn't exist anymore.

    This kind of shit makes me want to quit.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    That's pretty frustrating. Open a ticket to IT to get them to resolve that shit.

    Ladies.
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    java is not that slow per se, certainly compared to Ruby and Python it's on a whole different league of speed

    but for the amount of syntax and structural horseshit they make you wade through, you don't really get the same dividends that you do in C languages

    and when you do something dumb like create an entire phone runtime on it, then that lack of speed dividend begins to manifest itself

    bowen
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    That's pretty frustrating. Open a ticket to IT to get them to resolve that shit.
    rundll32.exe shell32.dll,Control_RunDLL inetcpl.cpl,,4
    

    Worked. Made it into a batch file.

    I'm guessing this was intentional.

  • EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Java the syntax I have no problem with. The entire JSE, JEE, JRE, design is what I abhor, and that is mainly from java applets and .jar browser integration.

    I personally have a problem with what seems to be the java developer community love of deep class inheritance, and over use of factories. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should when it comes to writing code.

    Ethea on
    bowen
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    java is not that slow per se, certainly compared to Ruby and Python it's on a whole different league of speed

    but for the amount of syntax and structural horseshit they make you wade through, you don't really get the same dividends that you do in C languages

    and when you do something dumb like create an entire phone runtime on it, then that lack of speed dividend begins to manifest itself

    But it's okay Jasc, we made our runtime faster and use less battery!

    Ladies.
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Anyone who defends Java as "a perfectly fine language because a lot of people use it" has a very bad argument.

    Java could be fucking amazing, but first Sun and then Oracle pissed it's potential away chasing profits and patent BS. C# has long eclipsed Java as a usable language in the "I want a C-style language that isn't C or C++" space.

    I would also argue that the TIOBE list is total bullshit as it lists JavaScript as lower than Python and just above VB.Net, which is total bullshit. We know for a fact there are more lines of JavaScript in the world than any other known language. It's easily the most commonly used language in the world, even if the people using it aren't always "programmers".

    e: And yes, people make money writing Java, good on them. I'm glad they can make a living. This does not preclude Java from being a stagnant language with bad stewards. Fortran, COBOL and ABAP make people money, this does not make them modern languages that I want to use.

    GnomeTank on
    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    bowenadmanbThe AnonymousNightslyrAngelHedgie
  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    I can't help but wonder how much javascript is generated instead of written.

    syndalis wrote: »
    Apple is a terrible company.
    The Anonymous
  • IzzimachIzzimach Fighter/Mage/Chef Registered User regular
    NEOVIM "Vim for the 21st century"

    You Vim guys are dedicated, I'll give you that.

    Using Lua as the internal script engine does sound like a good idea, though.

    Important info for retro hipsters:
    Will Neovim run on Commodore 64?
    No.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    That list is generated based on courses and job listings basically. Like I said, appeal to popularity fallacy there.

    The biggest reason I'm pissed off is because blu-ray uses it and I need to wait like 2 minutes for my blu ray player to boot. Oh yeah TWC is using it in their cable boxes now. That's a good 10 minute wait. I remember a few years ago before they switched to that Cisco Java platform it would take maybe 30 seconds for my DVR box to boot and get the channel listing. Now it's easily 10 minutes.

    It makes me stabby as fuck.

    Ladies.
    Nightslyr
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Delmain wrote: »
    I can't help but wonder how much javascript is generated instead of written.

    Ten years ago I would have said a lot, but the use of tools like DreamWeaver to plug horrible chunks of JavaScript in to your page for stupid shit like image rotation has gone way way down. CSS covers most of what people used to use generated JS for, and things like jQuery.UI have filled the other holes.

    That code is still out there, but the ratio if "bad DreamWeaver JS" to "JS written by human hand" is tipping towards the latter constantly.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    That list is generated based on courses and job listings basically. Like I said, appeal to popularity fallacy there.

    The biggest reason I'm pissed off is because blu-ray uses it and I need to wait like 2 minutes for my blu ray player to boot. Oh yeah TWC is using it in their cable boxes now. That's a good 10 minute wait. I remember a few years ago before they switched to that Cisco Java platform it would take maybe 30 seconds for my DVR box to boot and get the channel listing. Now it's easily 10 minutes.

    It makes me stabby as fuck.

    Oh okay, then the TIOBE listing is even more complete and utter bullshit as a reasoning for any sort of language discussion. People don't hire "JavaScript programmers", they expect web developers to just know JavaScript (and that required knowledge is usually pretty tacit).

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
    bowenSporkAndrew
  • DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    Ruby still has a lot of functions that generate JS for your front-ends.

    I've been dealing with them recently.

    syndalis wrote: »
    Apple is a terrible company.
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Thanks for that link @bowen. I'm poking around in pdadmin right now... Seems the server IP has a virtualhost already created with that IP... And the type is SSL.

    Something that stands out for me is when I do:
    server task serverName virtualhost show IPAddressOfServer
    

    It shows the name of the server, and then below it says: "Server State: Not running". But I'm not sure if that's true since typing in the actual servername gets the URL just fine.

    bowen
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    That's weird, unfortunately I have no skills in that shit so I can't really help too much! Best to find someone onsite who does.

    Ladies.
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Maybe this information will help them come up with a solution. I'll pass it along to them.

    bowen
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Fucking world's largest defense contractor... and we're given the shittiest computers in the world. How does that make sense?

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Large organizations have lots of waste and red tape.

    Ladies.
    urahonky
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Large organizations have lots of waste and red tape.

    Semi-rhetorical question, honestly. :P

    bowen
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Cleaning up old strings is fun.

    We had one for a user operation that takes about 15 minutes that said "(this may take a few minutes)". :neutral_face:

    I finally went and updated it to say "this will take several minutes". Been driving me nuts for like 6 months.

    mightyjongyoan_alt
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Ethea wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    zeeny wrote: »
    This is how you know a company has way too much money and absolutely no clue what to do with them. Actually offering to build something similar should be grounds to get you fired.

    I looked at it the other day.

    Why wouldn't you just use C++ at that point? You've got to train all your workers on a new language that's basically php++. That seems retarded.

    This is what happens when you have money, a massive developer team that knows a language, and you believe that trying to teach them C++ or D would cost more than writing a new language. On top of that, moving to C++ would decrease the feedback loop that Hack provides for type checking, which most likely is the primary point of the language for Facebook.

    Facebook currently has people writing the D language, Hack, OCaml ( i think ), a C++ linter, a PHP translator and other compiler level things that I don't remember.

    Wait... D? I didn't think any companies were writing d at all. Its too flaky (I found a major compiler bug back when I was playing with it)

    Magic Box
    Academician Prokhor "Phyphor" Zakharov, Chief Scientist of China, Provost of the University of Planet - SE++ Megagame
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    every time I see new language syntaxes I just cannot figure out what people were thinking

    Dart, Typescript, Hack... why do these things have to look four times more complicated than the languages they are trying to replace

    bowen
  • EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Ethea wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    zeeny wrote: »
    This is how you know a company has way too much money and absolutely no clue what to do with them. Actually offering to build something similar should be grounds to get you fired.

    I looked at it the other day.

    Why wouldn't you just use C++ at that point? You've got to train all your workers on a new language that's basically php++. That seems retarded.

    This is what happens when you have money, a massive developer team that knows a language, and you believe that trying to teach them C++ or D would cost more than writing a new language. On top of that, moving to C++ would decrease the feedback loop that Hack provides for type checking, which most likely is the primary point of the language for Facebook.

    Facebook currently has people writing the D language, Hack, OCaml ( i think ), a C++ linter, a PHP translator and other compiler level things that I don't remember.

    Wait... D? I didn't think any companies were writing d at all. Its too flaky (I found a major compiler bug back when I was playing with it)


    Here let me blow your mind.

    Andrei Alexandrescu works for facebook now. He is still working on D, and rarely does C++ work. Facebook just released a C++ linter called Flint, which was written in D.

This discussion has been closed.