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My Little [Programming] Thread: Debugging is Magic

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Posts

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    I'm surprised a google search doesn't pull anything up.

    http://komposter.com.ua/documents/PCI_Express_Base_Specification_Revision_3.0.pdf

    No idea if that's applicable to you ecco

    Yeah, that would be exactly what I would need.

    The trouble is that by doing that, I think I would be knowingly looking at a document that I should not have access to. =/

    Edit: DAMNIT

    CURSE MY POOR WILLPOWER

    I peeked at it and found the one bit of information I needed

    Hm I don't see mention of any distribution/copyright limitations in the PDF? I guess if someone pays the membership fee and gives it away how's a person supposed to know!

    Ladies.
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Hm I don't see mention of any distribution/copyright limitations in the PDF? I guess if someone pays the membership fee and gives it away how's a person supposed to know!

    Yeah.

    Thanks for the link, though =)

    And for my next question; sure, the spec says one thing, but are the hardware and software implementations according to spec? =P

    Only experiments and source code can decide that, coming next week on embedded hardware development.

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
    bowenDelmain
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I'd probably lose my mind doing what you do. Pay is probably good though!

    Ladies.
    undergroundmonorail
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Hm I don't see mention of any distribution/copyright limitations in the PDF? I guess if someone pays the membership fee and gives it away how's a person supposed to know!

    Yeah.

    Thanks for the link, though =)

    And for my next question; sure, the spec says one thing, but are the hardware and software implementations according to spec? =P

    Only experiments and source code can decide that, coming next week on embedded hardware development.

    Release the specs for free

    Charge for the errata

    Magic Box
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  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    bowen wrote: »
    I'd probably lose my mind doing what you do. Pay is probably good though!

    Pay is okay. =)

    I just enjoy making stuff!

    I get this moment of pride when a vessel goes past with one of the products I was involved in, and I can tell the person next to me, "HECK YES I HELPED MAKE THAT".


    I think a lot of embedded development is having to pay a lot more attention to detail, to be honest. So much detail, that it can honestly get overwhelming.

    Like right now, I'm balancing details of the PCIe spec (thanks, again!), how it's laid out on the circuit board, which corresponds to how to enters into our embedded processor's PCIe block (and how that implements the parts of the PCIe spec that it needs to), with the manufacturer's driver, and finally how the Linux kernel API exports all that.

    The best thing for me is for me is to produce documentation, oddly enough, to write this all down. And hopefully save the person behind me (and myself!) some time because I'm going to forget half of this stuff after I finish it!

    I find myself producing waaaay more documentation than code, nowadays, just to document these findings. It's the answer to, "Why on earth does he call that function there?"

    Edit: Oh my god my England has broken hard

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
    bowen
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Release the specs for free

    Charge for the errata

    Release both for free - charge for certification. Yaaay USB!

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
    bowenDelmain
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    Hey @The Anonymous

    Could you keep the PAdev bit copied over from the previous threads?

    Thanks. :^:

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  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    So we're supposed to deploy a SharePoint 2010 solution we've been working on for over 2 years to a client next week.

    They upgraded to SharePoint 2013 without telling us.

    "Oh it shouldn't matter what version we're on, right?"

    :expressionless:

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  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    So we're supposed to deploy a SharePoint 2010 solution we've been working on for over 2 years to a client next week.

    They upgraded to SharePoint 2013 without telling us.

    "Oh it shouldn't matter what version we're on, right?"

    :expressionless:

    I'm assuming the contract (SOW?) says "SharePoint 2010."

  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    So we're supposed to deploy a SharePoint 2010 solution we've been working on for over 2 years to a client next week.

    They upgraded to SharePoint 2013 without telling us.

    "Oh it shouldn't matter what version we're on, right?"

    :expressionless:

    I'm assuming the contract (SOW?) says "SharePoint 2010."

    Yeah, the SOW we signed 3 years ago :P

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  • SmasherSmasher Starting to get dizzy Registered User regular
    So we're supposed to deploy a SharePoint 2010 solution we've been working on for over 2 years to a client next week.

    They upgraded to SharePoint 2013 without telling us.

    "Oh it shouldn't matter what version we're on, right?"

    :expressionless:
    Send them a... modified version of your avatar.

    SpawnbrokerDelmain
  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Ethea wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    is is too much to ask for a GUI lib that I can just pass the SDL2 window handle or GL canvas to

    stuff like Qt seems to demand that you use their windowing code and then do something like paint the SDL2 frame onto a bitmap to be shown in Qt

    can that really be the norm?

    Yes it is to much to ask. Do you just want to embed a sdl2 opengl created context into a qt widget? or do you want to draw Qt items in the sdl2 context?

    i would ideally like to embed Qt widgets into the SDL2 frame because I've already invested so much input logic into SDL2, I think going with a Qt window invalidates that

  • EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    Ethea wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    is is too much to ask for a GUI lib that I can just pass the SDL2 window handle or GL canvas to

    stuff like Qt seems to demand that you use their windowing code and then do something like paint the SDL2 frame onto a bitmap to be shown in Qt

    can that really be the norm?

    Yes it is to much to ask. Do you just want to embed a sdl2 opengl created context into a qt widget? or do you want to draw Qt items in the sdl2 context?

    i would ideally like to embed Qt widgets into the SDL2 frame because I've already invested so much input logic into SDL2, I think going with a Qt window invalidates that

    Yeah you really can't embed Qt Widgets which want to use the Qt event loop to repaint them selves into an SDL2 frame which it self is most likely run by an SDL2 event loop. Something like this ( https://qt.gitorious.org/qt-labs/modelviewer/source/63c324846ca79c247be13b8561a043887b6741d3: ) shows how you can call open gl in the paint event, which in your case could be a call to SLD2.

  • MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    Code practice debate at work. There's two classes, one for just passing a short view of a product, another for passing everything. The second inherits the first. One dev wants them in two different files so they can find them easier. The other wants them in one file so they can see the whole thing at once easier. I can't convince them to settle it via arm wrestling. How would you arrange things?
    It looks something like:
    class ProductView{
     int Id{get;set;}
     string Name{get;set;}
    }
    class LongProductView : ProductView{
     string Description {get;set;}
     string imageURL {get;set;}
     decimal SomethingImportant {get;set;}
      //20 more lines of stuff
    }
    

  • mightyjongyomightyjongyo Registered User regular
    The proper way in my opinion is to do two separate files. Doubly so if they're both used externally. I think the only time I've put two classes in one file is if it's only use is internal to the class for which the file is named.

    DelmainWeretaco
  • jdarksunjdarksun Scion of Chaos Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Still Java though, I don't even.

    I'd rather have seen it written in node or something jesus christ.
    The fuck? Java is a great choice for a lot of programming applications. It's been fifteen years since it was slow, get over it.

    is that why it needs twice as many cores with almost twice as much clock speed to do equivalent work to iOS?
    Stagnant language, less optimized than C# through mono, C/C++ are better options in any environment other than "need RAD UI".

    Java is the poorest choice in a sea of poor choices.
    http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

    #2 most used programming language

    Check and mate.

    More prolific, better third party support, actually can find professional developers who program it.

    Also, now I remember why I stopped following this thread.

    because you're argumentative for no reason?
    Jesus, dude. I came into this thread because the last thread was actually civil for a few pages, and you and bowen have to immediately start shit because I dare voice an opinion that isn't part of the echo chamber. And you're calling me argumentative?
    Well, we are admittedly kinda dicks about a widely-used programming-language that makes a lot of people money and employs them and if used properly can do some grand things.
    You think? There's Console Megathread era levels of exclusionary bullshit going on in this thread, and I have no idea why the mods tolerate it.

    AnteCantelope
  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    No one's being exclusionary. Bowen said rude things about Java because Bowen always says rude things about Java -- it is literally a running joke in this thread. You reacted to it with swear words and "get over it." No surprise things got a bit testy from there.

    This thread is like 95% people bitching about dumb shit at their jobs or expressing glee at their success and everyone else being super supportive. You are really only going to find a fight if you go looking for one.

    ASimPerson
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    So, Hack - how would someone actually play with it? Is HHVM just a package I can install on my Mint box?

    I'm a bit curious because, currently, I pay the bills through PHP w/ Symfony which is... bearable, but still filled with daily :rotate: moments. Something that can clean up syntax, give me generics, and a bit of static typing is tempting, especially if there are performance gains under the hood.

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  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Nightslyr wrote: »
    So, Hack - how would someone actually play with it? Is HHVM just a package I can install on my Mint box?

    I'm a bit curious because, currently, I pay the bills through PHP w/ Symfony which is... bearable, but still filled with daily :rotate: moments. Something that can clean up syntax, give me generics, and a bit of static typing is tempting, especially if there are performance gains under the hood.

    Looks like there's no prebuilt packages for Mint (the only officially supported versions are Ubuntu current, Ubuntu 12.04, and Debian stable), but they have instructions to compile it from source.

    https://github.com/facebook/hhvm/wiki/Building-and-installing-HHVM-on-Ubuntu-13.04 (Ubuntu 13.04 instructions are listed as identical to Mint 15 instructions)

    Dehumanized on
    Nightslyr
  • EtheaEthea Registered User regular
    what hack uses cmake to build. Well looks like it has to be great :smile:

    bowen
  • KambingKambing Registered User regular
    And it's built with OCaml. How can anyone complain!

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  • IncindiumIncindium Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Java is plenty fast these days. We have a media server running in Java supporting more than 100 concurrent calls being recorded per moderately speced Linux server. Enterprises are using Java in highly performant scaleable applications every day.

    Bowen is like the cranky old guy of thread complaining about the damn Java, regex, and recursion for being on his lawn.

    Incindium on
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  • AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    admanb wrote: »
    No one's being exclusionary. Bowen said rude things about Java because Bowen always says rude things about Java -- it is literally a running joke in this thread. You reacted to it with swear words and "get over it." No surprise things got a bit testy from there.

    This thread is like 95% people bitching about dumb shit at their jobs or expressing glee at their success and everyone else being super supportive. You are really only going to find a fight if you go looking for one.
    Jasconius wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Jasconius wrote: »
    jdarksun wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Still Java though, I don't even.

    I'd rather have seen it written in node or something jesus christ.
    The fuck? Java is a great choice for a lot of programming applications. It's been fifteen years since it was slow, get over it.
    is that why it needs twice as many cores with almost twice as much clock speed to do equivalent work to iOS?
    You know iOS isn't a programming language, right?

    man you're cool

    I'd say this is where things went downhill.

    I'd also say that having such negative opinions of a language is like having strong opinions on where the braces should go: it's bikeshedding, and it says to me that you don't have enough knowledge to argue about anything meaningful.

    xraydog
  • mightyjongyomightyjongyo Registered User regular
    Orr maybe we just like to argue about silly things? It's at the same level of arguing about vim vs emacs to me...

  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    That's ridiculous. VIM and emacs are both equally worthless

    RendDelmainCampybowenan_alta5ehrenHerrCron
  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Jasconius wrote: »

    so is his first name "string"? Why put the type after the var name and why make the type declaration order left to right the exact opposite of every other language ever

    Main reason I'd guess (I don't know the language) is because the typing is optional? Anyways, plenty of language do that (put the type after the name rather than before). The entire Pascal derived family for one.

    EDIT: Beaten.

    Alistair Hutton on
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  • KambingKambing Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    zeeny wrote: »
    This is how you know a company has way too much money and absolutely no clue what to do with them. Actually offering to build something similar should be grounds to get you fired.

    I looked at it the other day.

    Why wouldn't you just use C++ at that point? You've got to train all your workers on a new language that's basically php++. That seems retarded.

    A serious answer:

    Facebook has a predominately PHP codebase. They've spent a lot of engineering effort in trying to get that codebase to scale to the customer base they experience now, e.g., see HipHop which started as a PHP-to-C++ compiler and evolved into a full-blown PHP virtual machine (wikipedia article).

    For them, interoperability with PHP is paramount to modernizing their codebase in a cost-effective way (read: strong, static typing through gradual types) and no other language on the market had that feature. Or gradual typing now that I've mentioned it.

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  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    I wonder how this conversation went on Facebook's HQ:

    "Hey, lets call our PHP hack new language "hack". It will totally make a shitty experience to look for documentation on any search engine, but our "ironic" humor is soooo clever."

    Delmain
  • The AnonymousThe Anonymous Uh, uh, uhhhhhh... Uh, uh.Registered User regular
    Incindium wrote: »
    @The Anonymous Need to added something for C# to the OP as I'm pretty sure there is a sizable portion of people in the thread programming in it. Maybe also Javascript and/or Node.js as well.

    Agreed. I program primarily in C# and Javascript at my job. Going to be taking a look at TypeScript soon too due to the Visual Studio 2013 update including it.
    C# is in. JS will be a bit because I want to talk about Meteor, which is totally neat.
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Yo @The Anonymous, your Java link goes to a C# page. :P
    Working as intended! :p
    Rend wrote: »
    Android - Directly responsible for bringing this OP into the 21st century, Android is a pseudo-operating system framework which runs on top of Linux, Android is primarily written in Java, though also combines elements of C/C++ and sometimes even Python, and is designed for mobile devices. The Android application framework represents an almost entirely event-driven paradigm written primarily in Java which heavily utilizes usage of background services, model-view-controller, and subclassing as a method of changing behavior of standard pieces. Also, it runs on your phone!
    Added!
    Infidel wrote: »
    Hey @The Anonymous

    Could you keep the PAdev bit copied over from the previous threads?

    Thanks. :^:
    Done!

    IncindiumSpawnbrokerNightslyr
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    Jasconius wrote: »
    I've been working on a 2D game in C++/SDL2

    I've been trying to write as much as possible and not lean on 3rd party libs for high level functionality

    so far i have

    - SDL2 for basic graphics and input
    - jsoncpp for data management

    and that's it.

    I'll probably get something Qtish or equivalent to help me build menus. I dread having to get that shit to work.

    At the moment all of my work has been core 2D functionality in the spirit of Link to the Past, but with point and click control. I'm approaching "good enough" status with all that.

    Then I can move to the fun stuff. I am really interesting in experimenting with local lighting in SDL2... having magic missiles that illuminate attack the darkness.

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  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    I like how we only post in this thread during work.

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  • gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    If you need help with anything, post at 11AM on a weekday. Instant response.

    11PM on a Saturday night? not so much.


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  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    gotta do something while you compile

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Java is straight up terrible, just because everyone and their mom uses it doesn't make it less so.

    If all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you jump off too?

    Ladies.
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Java is straight up terrible, just because everyone and their mom uses it doesn't make it less so.

    If all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you jump off too?

    Yes... Clearly some shit is happening on the bridge.

    oldmanken
  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Java is straight up terrible, just because everyone and their mom uses it doesn't make it less so.

    If all your friends jumped off a bridge, would you jump off too?

    Yes... Clearly some shit is happening on the bridge.

    Someone forced Bowen to write a Java regex generator on vi and unleashed him on the bridge.

    urahonkyTofystedethThe Anonymous
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    Haha wow. IT blocked the script I wrote to allow me to change the Proxy server. Christ almighty. So now I can't connect to the VPN correctly! They REALLY don't want me working from home, do they?

    Spawnbrokerbowen
  • SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    "Oh yes, you can work from home as much as you want!

    Johnson, quick, prevent him from accessing the server from home!"

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  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    "Oh yes, you can work from home as much as you want!

    Johnson, quick, prevent him from accessing the server from home!"

    This is exactly it. The project I'm working on is a team of about 10 people. Everyone's schedule is "Work from home everyday but Wednesday". With this change I can see them forcing us back to the office which is stupid.

  • an_altan_alt Registered User regular
    Does anybody have a recommendation for a free XML validator/debugger? XML Spy and Oxygen work well, but I can't justify the cost for something I only need to use a few times a year.

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