Sucker Punch could have easily used a real tribe, and easily hired someone for consultation.
And it would have been real cool if they did. Full stop.
This OH NO IF THEY HEAR ANY CRITICISM THEY'LL NOT TRY IT AGAIN is some bogus slippery slope thinking. And if that's all it takes to scare someone off, I doubt their commitment to fair representation in the first place.
The only thing I was trying to say about this was that the criticism should be coupled with pointing out what they did correctly
I DO think that if you go out on a limb to try something and get slapped down you are less likely to try it again. Why wouldn't you be?
Sucker Punch could have easily used a real tribe, and easily hired someone for consultation.
And it would have been real cool if they did. Full stop.
This OH NO IF THEY HEAR ANY CRITICISM THEY'LL NOT TRY IT AGAIN is some bogus slippery slope thinking. And if that's all it takes to scare someone off, I doubt their commitment to fair representation in the first place.
The only thing I was trying to say about this was that the criticism should be coupled with pointing out what they did correctly
I DO think that if you go out on a limb to try something and get slapped down you are less likely to try it again. Why wouldn't you be?
Part of being a professional level writer is learning how to take honest criticism and use that to, you know, improve your writing. Same goes for any professional work, really.
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Dubh I'm not arguing with you on this point at all, clearly they could have handled it better
Pooro said they should not be given any credit for just trying and not succeeding, and that they were not owed any deference or positive reinforcement
That's the part I disagree with
They made a cool character who is a member of a minority that a lot of people enjoy and I think that's worth at least throwing them a bone at before telling them "but you did it wrong and here's what you should have done"
Dubh I'm not arguing with you on this point at all, clearly they could have handled it better
Pooro said they should not be given any credit for just trying and not succeeding, and that they were not owed any deference or positive reinforcement
That's the part I disagree with
They made a cool character who is a member of a minority that a lot of people enjoy and I think that's worth at least throwing them a bone at before telling them "but you did it wrong and here's what you should have done"
Pooro also did that! You're not really listening to him.
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Like man I didn't mean to start such a shitstorm but really all I'm trying to say is I think when people make moves to try to increase diversity that a little positive reinforcement is probably worth trying before giving your caveats and everything else
It's still hard to get people to make games that arent about white males and I just don't think the best strategy is to give them disincentive to do that without at least acknowledging they are trying to do something good
Dubh I'm not arguing with you on this point at all, clearly they could have handled it better
Pooro said they should not be given any credit for just trying and not succeeding, and that they were not owed any deference or positive reinforcement
That's the part I disagree with
They made a cool character who is a member of a minority that a lot of people enjoy and I think that's worth at least throwing them a bone at before telling them "but you did it wrong and here's what you should have done"
Pooro also did that! You're not really listening to him.
I don't see that anywhere?
In fact I see him questioning their motives for even having a native american protagonist?
Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
From the comment section of the "what's wrong with the metal gear ending?" article.
The other day I read about human slaughter houses that are being run by the rebels in Syria. They're decapitating Christians and Muslims who won't radicalize and hanging them upside down like cattle. And that some hospitals in the UK are incinerating aborted babies to heat their buildings. THAT is ugliness and something to get upset about. Not the implication of a digital bomb getting shoved inside a digital uterus that also happens to be imaginary.
I'm just... 'THIS THING IS WORSE! YOU CAN'T GET ANGRY!' is such a shitty excuse for anything.
Dubh I'm not arguing with you on this point at all, clearly they could have handled it better
Pooro said they should not be given any credit for just trying and not succeeding, and that they were not owed any deference or positive reinforcement
That's the part I disagree with
They made a cool character who is a member of a minority that a lot of people enjoy and I think that's worth at least throwing them a bone at before telling them "but you did it wrong and here's what you should have done"
Pooro also did that! You're not really listening to him.
I don't see that anywhere?
In fact I see him questioning their motives for even having a native american protagonist?
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From the comment section of the "what's wrong with the metal gear ending?" article.
The other day I read about human slaughter houses that are being run by the rebels in Syria. They're decapitating Christians and Muslims who won't radicalize and hanging them upside down like cattle. And that some hospitals in the UK are incinerating aborted babies to heat their buildings. THAT is ugliness and something to get upset about. Not the implication of a digital bomb getting shoved inside a digital uterus that also happens to be imaginary.
I'm just... 'THIS THING IS WORSE! YOU CAN'T GET ANGRY!' is such a shitty excuse for anything.
It and it's cousin false equivalency are sadly super common
Dubh I'm not arguing with you on this point at all, clearly they could have handled it better
Pooro said they should not be given any credit for just trying and not succeeding, and that they were not owed any deference or positive reinforcement
That's the part I disagree with
They made a cool character who is a member of a minority that a lot of people enjoy and I think that's worth at least throwing them a bone at before telling them "but you did it wrong and here's what you should have done"
Pooro also did that! You're not really listening to him.
I don't see that anywhere?
In fact I see him questioning their motives for even having a native american protagonist?
Dubh I'm not arguing with you on this point at all, clearly they could have handled it better
Pooro said they should not be given any credit for just trying and not succeeding, and that they were not owed any deference or positive reinforcement
That's the part I disagree with
They made a cool character who is a member of a minority that a lot of people enjoy and I think that's worth at least throwing them a bone at before telling them "but you did it wrong and here's what you should have done"
Pooro also did that! You're not really listening to him.
I don't see that anywhere?
In fact I see him questioning their motives for even having a native american protagonist?
This image is amazing
also somewhat relevant to the discussion
the way to win with people like Chincy is not to argue with them at all, because they aren't going to budge no matter what
total waste of time
Miss me? Find me on:
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Dubh I'm not arguing with you on this point at all, clearly they could have handled it better
Pooro said they should not be given any credit for just trying and not succeeding, and that they were not owed any deference or positive reinforcement
That's the part I disagree with
They made a cool character who is a member of a minority that a lot of people enjoy and I think that's worth at least throwing them a bone at before telling them "but you did it wrong and here's what you should have done"
Pooro also did that! You're not really listening to him.
I don't see that anywhere?
In fact I see him questioning their motives for even having a native american protagonist?
I remember when I was a kid, there was a character in His Dark Materials who was described as Yoruba (a tribe in Nigeria). Just that one line blew me away, it was insane - like, you get characters who are black, or even African all the time, it doesn't mean anything. This was a fuckin' throwaway description about a nothing character, and it meant the world to me.
Making a generic minority character ain't worth a whole lot, and doesn't really deserve any kind of bone being thrown. They can pat themselves on the back if they like.
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Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
I had a speech class back in college and we talked all about logical fallacies and all sorts of conversational boo-boos.
For practice we had to make an argument using as many of them as possible. I wanted to forcibly eject my skeleton from my body
Dubh I'm not arguing with you on this point at all, clearly they could have handled it better
Pooro said they should not be given any credit for just trying and not succeeding, and that they were not owed any deference or positive reinforcement
That's the part I disagree with
They made a cool character who is a member of a minority that a lot of people enjoy and I think that's worth at least throwing them a bone at before telling them "but you did it wrong and here's what you should have done"
Pooro also did that! You're not really listening to him.
I don't see that anywhere?
In fact I see him questioning their motives for even having a native american protagonist?
I had a speech class back in college and we talked all about logical fallacies and all sorts of conversational boo-boos.
For practice we had to make an argument using as many of them as possible. I wanted to forcibly eject my skeleton from my body
oh god, I would have to leave the room
Miss me? Find me on:
Twitch (I stream most days of the week) Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
I've been slowly working through the GDC stream thing, lots of great moments in there. I really really liked the live performance of the song from Samurai Gun, I've never seen electronic(?) music performed before and it was fucking rad.
Like man I didn't mean to start such a shitstorm but really all I'm trying to say is I think when people make moves to try to increase diversity that a little positive reinforcement is probably worth trying before giving your caveats and everything else
It's still hard to get people to make games that arent about white males and I just don't think the best strategy is to give them disincentive to do that without at least acknowledging they are trying to do something good
But Pooro is just venting to people here on the forums (who asked him about it specifically), not sending a letter to Sucker Punch.
Also Chincy, I don't think you intend this but you probably should know that "well, maybe people would listen if you weren't so angry and were a bit nicer about it" comes up constantly whenever questions of racism/sexism/etc are raised (and it's always directed at the person pointing it out). And the goalposts on what tone is acceptable are constantly moving -- in this case just plain old frustrated annoyance is considered too angry (and if this isn't a thing you're allowed to be annoyed about, what is????). So uh, you are gonna get some pushback when you say that.
Like man I didn't mean to start such a shitstorm but really all I'm trying to say is I think when people make moves to try to increase diversity that a little positive reinforcement is probably worth trying before giving your caveats and everything else
It's still hard to get people to make games that arent about white males and I just don't think the best strategy is to give them disincentive to do that without at least acknowledging they are trying to do something good
But Pooro is just venting to people here on the forums (who asked him about it specifically), not sending a letter to Sucker Punch.
Also Chincy, I don't think you intend this but you probably should know that "well, maybe people would listen if you weren't so angry and were a bit nicer about it" comes up constantly whenever questions of racism/sexism/etc are raised (and it's always directed at the person pointing it out). And the goalposts on what tone is acceptable are constantly moving -- in this case just plain old frustrated annoyance is considered too angry (and if this isn't a thing you're allowed to be annoyed about, what is????). So uh, you are gonna get some pushback when you say that.
That wasn't what I intended, but I got it
As TDOT said, I think now is a good time to move on
I had a speech class back in college and we talked all about logical fallacies and all sorts of conversational boo-boos.
For practice we had to make an argument using as many of them as possible. I wanted to forcibly eject my skeleton from my body
oh god, I would have to leave the room
It was one of the greatest tests of my patience ever, and I have a 2 year old and a 7 year old
Posts
The only thing I was trying to say about this was that the criticism should be coupled with pointing out what they did correctly
I DO think that if you go out on a limb to try something and get slapped down you are less likely to try it again. Why wouldn't you be?
Part of being a professional level writer is learning how to take honest criticism and use that to, you know, improve your writing. Same goes for any professional work, really.
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
And I'm only ten minutes into this one but it's excellent so far:
http://www.audioentropy.com/
Pooro said they should not be given any credit for just trying and not succeeding, and that they were not owed any deference or positive reinforcement
That's the part I disagree with
They made a cool character who is a member of a minority that a lot of people enjoy and I think that's worth at least throwing them a bone at before telling them "but you did it wrong and here's what you should have done"
Send me invites peeps
....God why didnt I at least capitalize that
Pooro also did that! You're not really listening to him.
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
It's still hard to get people to make games that arent about white males and I just don't think the best strategy is to give them disincentive to do that without at least acknowledging they are trying to do something good
I think we need to have a long discussion on who the best Crazy Taxi character is
I don't see that anywhere?
In fact I see him questioning their motives for even having a native american protagonist?
I'm gonna have to go with leopard print tank top+knock off chucks, I mean come on. Axel does have the coolest looking car though.
Steam
I'm just... 'THIS THING IS WORSE! YOU CAN'T GET ANGRY!' is such a shitty excuse for anything.
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
It and it's cousin false equivalency are sadly super common
just
fucking
stop
This image is amazing
also somewhat relevant to the discussion
the way to win with people like Chincy is not to argue with them at all, because they aren't going to budge no matter what
total waste of time
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
I remember when I was a kid, there was a character in His Dark Materials who was described as Yoruba (a tribe in Nigeria). Just that one line blew me away, it was insane - like, you get characters who are black, or even African all the time, it doesn't mean anything. This was a fuckin' throwaway description about a nothing character, and it meant the world to me.
Making a generic minority character ain't worth a whole lot, and doesn't really deserve any kind of bone being thrown. They can pat themselves on the back if they like.
For practice we had to make an argument using as many of them as possible. I wanted to forcibly eject my skeleton from my body
I genuinely don't understand why what I am saying is apparently such a problem
Again, not trying to be a dick
I am just incredibly confused about why this stance is so terrible
Yeah this isn't helping me understand
oh god, I would have to leave the room
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
and people have tried to explain it to you and it hasn't worked and we'd all rather the conversation just end right now
I wanna try some Buckfast.
Steam
Edit:
Dropp'd
This may finally be the time I get into Fez
Third time's the charm, right?
If you somehow still haven't osmosed much information about Fez's puzzles its absolutely worth your time yes
http://www.audioentropy.com/
then yeah you should totally go for it
If nothing else I bet it looks great on a Vita screen
Also Chincy, I don't think you intend this but you probably should know that "well, maybe people would listen if you weren't so angry and were a bit nicer about it" comes up constantly whenever questions of racism/sexism/etc are raised (and it's always directed at the person pointing it out). And the goalposts on what tone is acceptable are constantly moving -- in this case just plain old frustrated annoyance is considered too angry (and if this isn't a thing you're allowed to be annoyed about, what is????). So uh, you are gonna get some pushback when you say that.
That wasn't what I intended, but I got it
As TDOT said, I think now is a good time to move on
Edit:
Thread, I am sorry I pooped all over everything
Can't wait for some new Trials.
But I'll damn sure try
It was one of the greatest tests of my patience ever, and I have a 2 year old and a 7 year old
in the year of our lord two thousand and fourteen
still using the phrase 'epic fails'.
Game looks fun though