Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Castle Bravo, a [chat]

12357100

Posts

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.

    My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.

    I see no reason to care at all.

    this I can't argue with

    but me?

    that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.

    To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.

    Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.

    Apothe0sis
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    'maybe my friends are funnier than your friends' is not a graceful thing to say, or helpful

    i thought var was joking when he said it? actually meaning it is pretty obnoxious

    I'm being entirely serious. It is strange to me to assume that funny things your friends say are taken from elsewhere because so much of my funny communication with friends is entirely natural. People come up with shit off the top of their head or present stories in funny ways and often say "oh that was a X line" or "oh that reminded me of Y" without ruining the conversation.

    The situation you guys are presenting is entirely alien to me.

    we're talking about "stealing jokes" right?

    if somebody tells a structured joke that sounds rehearsed, the default assumption is that they're taking it from somewhere else. if it's off the cuff, the assumption is that they came up with it.
    how would you define this?

    Because if someone in my group of friends, for example, came up with calling KFC "sadness buckets" and riffed 3-4 lines about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with it themself. If they had just taken the Patton Oswalt bit and made it seem like they were riffing 3-4 lines about what we were eating in order to make themselves seem funnier, that is what I would have a problem with. It can be nigh on impossible to tell the difference because a lot of comedy is making it seem like you are being loose about what you're saying, rather than reading from a script

    for sure, i'm just talking about the assumptions

    if it sounds like they're repeating something, like it has a fixed conventional structure they're following, if it sounds very deliberate, that's a capital-J Joke. I assume they read it somewhere or something.

    if it's natural, i would assume they're coming up with it themselves

    as I said, if I know they aren't coming up with it, but they present it as though they are, it's kind of icky

    i don't think it's immoral, as long as they're not monetizing it, but it's kind of scummy? like dishonestly posturing as being funnier than you are? it's a fine line though.

    yeah immoral is kind of a ridiculous word to use here

    but yeah dishonest posturing is the right word

    it's kinda... off-putting.


    okay it can be kind of funny. I've sat at a bar and heard three stories from two people that happened to their sisters or to them - and not in the "a friend of a friend, haha" way, but like nah totally it was me dude, that I could remember reading online

    and I lived off of that the rest of the conversation

    basically just enjoying them being kinda... silly? lame? embarrassing? Something like that.

    ftOqU21.png
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    simonwolf wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    'maybe my friends are funnier than your friends' is not a graceful thing to say, or helpful

    i thought var was joking when he said it? actually meaning it is pretty obnoxious

    I'm being entirely serious. It is strange to me to assume that funny things your friends say are taken from elsewhere because so much of my funny communication with friends is entirely natural. People come up with shit off the top of their head or present stories in funny ways and often say "oh that was a X line" or "oh that reminded me of Y" without ruining the conversation.

    The situation you guys are presenting is entirely alien to me.

    we're talking about "stealing jokes" right?

    if somebody tells a structured joke that sounds rehearsed, the default assumption is that they're taking it from somewhere else. if it's off the cuff, the assumption is that they came up with it.
    how would you define this?

    Because if someone in my group of friends, for example, came up with calling KFC "sadness buckets" and riffed 3-4 lines about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with it themself. If they had just taken the Patton Oswalt bit and made it seem like they were riffing 3-4 lines about what we were eating in order to make themselves seem funnier, that is what I would have a problem with. It can be nigh on impossible to tell the difference because a lot of comedy is making it seem like you are being loose about what you're saying, rather than reading from a script

    this is something I legitimately do not understand

    are we assigned to funniness-castes now

    are Level III Funniers not allowed to have children with Level I Funniers

    being funny is definitely a big component of people's identity - like, say, 90% of the people in chat at any given time - and i definitely have less respect for people (or rather, their wit) who are directly cribbing lines from other people without saying they are?

    even if it's not from a comedian. even if it's a joke you read on a forum and you don't say "it's like this guy said..." or something beforehand.

    it's not some enormous moral issue or anything but it's kind of a minor matter of principle?

    You must have a very low opinion of chat given how many jokes here are just recycled memes then :P

    Apothe0sis
  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.

    My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.

    I see no reason to care at all.

    this I can't argue with

    but me?

    that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.

    but this is the divide, right.

    it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.

    let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.

    so in that situation, what can really be said?

    i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am

    but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.

    InquisitorAbdhyius
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    i'd rather someone crib lines from a comedian than just make constant Simpsons references though

    or really any references that just stand alone and awkward as though they're supposed to be funny

    that makes me really uncomfortable because it's so unfunny but they're laughing like it should be and i want to just cup their cheek and say listen

    listen man

    you've got to shut up about this

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    AbdhyiusInquisitor
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    My best friend, when we were in middle school, I thought he was the funniest guy.

    Then I found out he was just stealing shit from Famy Guy and South Park.

    Needless to say I turned him in to the MPAA and he was executed as an enema of the state.

    Lh96QHG.png
    Evil MultifariousemnmnmeVariableHappylilElfCinders
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    i'd rather someone crib lines from a comedian than just make constant Simpsons references though

    or really any references that just stand alone and awkward as though they're supposed to be funny

    that makes me really uncomfortable because it's so unfunny but they're laughing like it should be and i want to just cup their cheek and say listen

    listen man

    you've got to shut up about this

    P10emnmnme
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    i'd rather someone crib lines from a comedian than just make constant Simpsons references though

    or really any references that just stand alone and awkward as though they're supposed to be funny

    that makes me really uncomfortable because it's so unfunny but they're laughing like it should be and i want to just cup their cheek and say listen

    listen man

    you've got to shut up about this

    But but but...

    We are the knights who say ni!

  • TavTav Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    'maybe my friends are funnier than your friends' is not a graceful thing to say, or helpful

    i thought var was joking when he said it? actually meaning it is pretty obnoxious

    I'm being entirely serious. It is strange to me to assume that funny things your friends say are taken from elsewhere because so much of my funny communication with friends is entirely natural. People come up with shit off the top of their head or present stories in funny ways and often say "oh that was a X line" or "oh that reminded me of Y" without ruining the conversation.

    The situation you guys are presenting is entirely alien to me.

    we're talking about "stealing jokes" right?

    if somebody tells a structured joke that sounds rehearsed, the default assumption is that they're taking it from somewhere else. if it's off the cuff, the assumption is that they came up with it.
    how would you define this?

    Because if someone in my group of friends, for example, came up with calling KFC "sadness buckets" and riffed 3-4 lines about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with it themself. If they had just taken the Patton Oswalt bit and made it seem like they were riffing 3-4 lines about what we were eating in order to make themselves seem funnier, that is what I would have a problem with. It can be nigh on impossible to tell the difference because a lot of comedy is making it seem like you are being loose about what you're saying, rather than reading from a script

    here I agree

    if you tell a joke - and well, using "sadness buckets" and using the same lines to riff on it, isn't what I'd call tell a joke, it's just, well, riffing on it and being amusing, except super sad because you're doing conversation on a stolen script and pretending not to

    but the point is in normal conversation if I tell a joke then I don't try hard to make it seem like I am being loose about what I'm saying

    because I'm not a comedian and it's a normal conversation

    I would definitely call it a joke. I think this is where our misunderstanding is coming from.

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    simonwolf wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    'maybe my friends are funnier than your friends' is not a graceful thing to say, or helpful

    i thought var was joking when he said it? actually meaning it is pretty obnoxious

    I'm being entirely serious. It is strange to me to assume that funny things your friends say are taken from elsewhere because so much of my funny communication with friends is entirely natural. People come up with shit off the top of their head or present stories in funny ways and often say "oh that was a X line" or "oh that reminded me of Y" without ruining the conversation.

    The situation you guys are presenting is entirely alien to me.

    we're talking about "stealing jokes" right?

    if somebody tells a structured joke that sounds rehearsed, the default assumption is that they're taking it from somewhere else. if it's off the cuff, the assumption is that they came up with it.
    how would you define this?

    Because if someone in my group of friends, for example, came up with calling KFC "sadness buckets" and riffed 3-4 lines about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with it themself. If they had just taken the Patton Oswalt bit and made it seem like they were riffing 3-4 lines about what we were eating in order to make themselves seem funnier, that is what I would have a problem with. It can be nigh on impossible to tell the difference because a lot of comedy is making it seem like you are being loose about what you're saying, rather than reading from a script

    this is something I legitimately do not understand

    are we assigned to funniness-castes now

    are Level III Funniers not allowed to have children with Level I Funniers

    being funny is definitely a big component of people's identity - like, say, 90% of the people in chat at any given time - and i definitely have less respect for people (or rather, their wit) who are directly cribbing lines from other people without saying they are?

    even if it's not from a comedian. even if it's a joke you read on a forum and you don't say "it's like this guy said..." or something beforehand.

    it's not some enormous moral issue or anything but it's kind of a minor matter of principle?

    You must have a very low opinion of chat given how many jokes here are just recycled memes then :P

    a meme is a structured joke that's almost always an obvious reference to something else

    i also find memes pretty unfunny after the first few instances and if people never did "so X, such Y, wow" ever again that would be really fine by me

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    InquisitorHappylilElf
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck and yet it moves Registered User regular
    Miner? I hardly knew her!

    haha where did you get that

  • TavTav Registered User regular
    i'd rather someone crib lines from a comedian than just make constant Simpsons references though

    or really any references that just stand alone and awkward as though they're supposed to be funny

    that makes me really uncomfortable because it's so unfunny but they're laughing like it should be and i want to just cup their cheek and say listen

    listen man

    you've got to shut up about this

    Fuck people who quote Monty Python. Fuck them forever.

  • simonwolfsimonwolf i'm in love with your brother what's his nameRegistered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    i'd rather someone crib lines from a comedian than just make constant Simpsons references though

    or really any references that just stand alone and awkward as though they're supposed to be funny

    that makes me really uncomfortable because it's so unfunny but they're laughing like it should be and i want to just cup their cheek and say listen

    listen man

    you've got to shut up about this

    Fuck people who quote Monty Python. Fuck them forever.

    i don't like spam

  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    i'd rather someone crib lines from a comedian than just make constant Simpsons references though

    or really any references that just stand alone and awkward as though they're supposed to be funny

    that makes me really uncomfortable because it's so unfunny but they're laughing like it should be and i want to just cup their cheek and say listen

    listen man

    you've got to shut up about this

    Fuck people who quote Monty Python. Fuck them forever.

    You're too sloooow!

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    organichu's point is my point

    it isn't often that I think someone will care about the origin of the line and yeah I never consider that you'd think I came up with this anecdote or joke

    ftOqU21.png
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    i really don't find it that onerous to go "there's this one Louis CK bit I really like..."

    i don't know about you guys but i'm usually not like rapid firing jokes off other people that oh noes the timing is going to be ruined if i cite it

    and hey maybe you'll get them into louis ck! now you have another thing to talk about!

    Yeah that also

    Like if I'm gonna straight up try and recreate a Hedberg joke or something it's invariably going to be prefaced by "Oh man you've never heard of Mitch Heberg? You gotta check him out, like he has this one that goes"

    Because I would genuinely be trying to convince them to check out Mitch Hedbergs stuff.

    Just using a professional comedian's material out of nowhere as if you'd come up with it is really really weird. I've never encountered that in my life and, I mean, I know lolantecdotalevidence but, like.... yeah that just weird. And fairly dickish.

  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.

    My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.

    I see no reason to care at all.

    this I can't argue with

    but me?

    that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.

    To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.

    Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.

    creative vs academic

    if someone was jamming on a guitar and playing other people's music it'd bug me if they passed it off as their own... but I don't expect them to explain who discovered the chords they're using (or whatever, idk how to say that. invented the chords, whatever)

    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
    Elendil
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    yes let us all unite in hatred of meaningless references substituting for humor

    ftOqU21.png
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.

    My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.

    I see no reason to care at all.

    this I can't argue with

    but me?

    that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.

    but this is the divide, right.

    it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.

    let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.

    so in that situation, what can really be said?

    i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am

    but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.

    this is why i say it's a fine line

    you can mark something you're saying as a reference, or as something you're pulling from elsewhere, or just kind of de-emphasize it or imply you don't want "credit," just by modulating the tone of your voice

    there are some really subtle conversational dynamics involved in this

    especially if everyone in the group consumes a lot of comedy and the assumption is they'll know what you're calling back to, or at least be aware that it's a callback

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    VariablePowerpuppies
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck and yet it moves Registered User regular
    chu do you have more booze because

    hair of the dog

  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    Miner? I hardly knew her!

    haha where did you get that

    Office Season five episode 20 about five minutes or so in.

    Lh96QHG.png
    skippydumptruck
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck and yet it moves Registered User regular
    and I want to lol

  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    yes let us all unite in hatred of meaningless references substituting for humor

  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Eastern coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.

    My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.

    I see no reason to care at all.

    this I can't argue with

    but me?

    that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.

    To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.

    Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.

    creative vs academic

    if someone was jamming on a guitar and playing other people's music it'd bug me if they passed it off as their own... but I don't expect them to explain who discovered the chords they're using (or whatever, idk how to say that. invented the chords, whatever)

    Probably discovered, in much the same way you might say someone discovers a mathematical fact.

    Really either way works, though I think discovered sounds more natural.

    Shivahn on
    VariableApothe0sis
  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    chu do you have more booze because

    hair of the dog

    i have literally never felt better by doing this

  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.

    My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.

    I see no reason to care at all.

    this I can't argue with

    but me?

    that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.

    but this is the divide, right.

    it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.

    let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.

    so in that situation, what can really be said?

    i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am

    but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.

    if I recognized it I'd ask, as I said earlier. if I thought it sounded Professional Jokey, I'd ask. out of curiosity, to spark discussion about whoever wrote it, to see if you're holy shit really clever! I'd be curious.

    you'd have to do this multiple times, consciously, before it would effect how I think of you. especially due to this conversation we're having right now.

    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • TavTav Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.

    My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.

    I see no reason to care at all.

    this I can't argue with

    but me?

    that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.

    but this is the divide, right.

    it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.

    let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.

    so in that situation, what can really be said?

    i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am

    but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.

    I would say that knowingly using someone else's joke in that situation would be a conscious and active deceit, even if the other person doesn't know or care.

  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.

    My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.

    I see no reason to care at all.

    this I can't argue with

    but me?

    that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.

    To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.

    Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.

    creative vs academic

    if someone was jamming on a guitar and playing other people's music it'd bug me if they passed it off as their own... but I don't expect them to explain who discovered the chords they're using (or whatever, idk how to say that. invented the chords, whatever)

    but you do expect them to explain the song instead of just playing a song?

    they just wanted to play a nice song and didn't really see a reason that you'd care who made it

    ftOqU21.png
  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck and yet it moves Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    chu do you have more booze because

    hair of the dog

    i have literally never felt better by doing this

    but I mean

    youre not shitting yourself presently

    so

  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    Tav wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.

    My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.

    I see no reason to care at all.

    this I can't argue with

    but me?

    that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.

    but this is the divide, right.

    it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.

    let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.

    so in that situation, what can really be said?

    i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am

    but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.

    I would say that knowingly using someone else's joke in that situation would be a conscious and active deceit, even if the other person doesn't know or care.

    what is the deceit? i'm only misrepresenting the truth if the understood truth is "john thought that up on his own just now". that is not, i think, the universal assumption. maybe for you it is, so i could consider this in future conversations with you. but with plenty of people, this is definitionally not deceitful in any way.

    AbdhyiusInquisitorjakobagger
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    Organichu wrote: »
    chu do you have more booze because

    hair of the dog

    i have literally never felt better by doing this

    drinking more to recover from a hangover?

    yeah i'm pretty sure "hair of the dog" is a synonym for "i am an alcoholic"

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    InquisitorVariablejakobagger
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    edited March 2014
    This conversation is interesting from an ideological point of view. Comedy as consumer good rather than as non-commodified aspect of oral culture.

    Commodification. It's the craze that's sweeping the nation.

    poshniallo on
    I figure I could take a bear.
    AbdhyiusApothe0sisjakobagger
  • AManFromEarthAManFromEarth Let's get to twerk! The King in the SwampRegistered User regular
    I know a poet who stops herself mid reading to explain the symbology and allusions and where she gets certain ideas.

    It's terrible.

    I get it, it's Blake.


    Point being this argument is terrible.

    Lh96QHG.png
  • poshnialloposhniallo Registered User regular
    But who said that first?

    I figure I could take a bear.
  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.

    My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.

    I see no reason to care at all.

    this I can't argue with

    but me?

    that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.

    To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.

    Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.

    creative vs academic

    if someone was jamming on a guitar and playing other people's music it'd bug me if they passed it off as their own... but I don't expect them to explain who discovered the chords they're using (or whatever, idk how to say that. invented the chords, whatever)

    but you do expect them to explain the song instead of just playing a song?

    they just wanted to play a nice song and didn't really see a reason that you'd care who made it

    I said if they passed it off as their own

    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    poshniallo wrote: »
    This conversation is interesting from an ideological point of view. Comedy as consumer good rather than as non-commodified aspect of oral culture.

    Commodification. It's the craze that's sweeping the nation.

    pithy summary that

    ftOqU21.png
  • AbdhyiusAbdhyius Registered User regular
    BUT IS IT YOURS

    ftOqU21.png
  • OrganichuOrganichu jacobkosh Registered User regular
    skooples when do you want to lol

  • EddyEddy Gengar the Bittersweet Registered User regular
    Abdhyius wrote: »
    yes let us all unite in hatred of meaningless references substituting for humor

    is this why you post imgur stuff ad nauseum? Because you want us all to see the truth behind this post?

    “Even as a gengar she was lovely.” ― Ovid, Metamorphoses
  • TavTav Registered User regular
    Organichu wrote: »
    Tav wrote: »
    Organichu wrote: »
    Variable wrote: »
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.

    My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.

    I see no reason to care at all.

    this I can't argue with

    but me?

    that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.

    but this is the divide, right.

    it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.

    let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.

    so in that situation, what can really be said?

    i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am

    but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.

    I would say that knowingly using someone else's joke in that situation would be a conscious and active deceit, even if the other person doesn't know or care.

    what is the deceit? i'm only misrepresenting the truth if the understood truth is "john thought that up on his own just now". that is not, i think, the universal assumption. maybe for you it is, so i could consider this in future conversations with you. but with plenty of people, this is definitionally not deceitful in any way.

    Before this conversation, I was under the impression that it was. It might still be! I dunno, this thread isn't a wonderful sample size.

This discussion has been closed.