I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.
Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.
'maybe my friends are funnier than your friends' is not a graceful thing to say, or helpful
i thought var was joking when he said it? actually meaning it is pretty obnoxious
I'm being entirely serious. It is strange to me to assume that funny things your friends say are taken from elsewhere because so much of my funny communication with friends is entirely natural. People come up with shit off the top of their head or present stories in funny ways and often say "oh that was a X line" or "oh that reminded me of Y" without ruining the conversation.
The situation you guys are presenting is entirely alien to me.
we're talking about "stealing jokes" right?
if somebody tells a structured joke that sounds rehearsed, the default assumption is that they're taking it from somewhere else. if it's off the cuff, the assumption is that they came up with it.
how would you define this?
Because if someone in my group of friends, for example, came up with calling KFC "sadness buckets" and riffed 3-4 lines about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with it themself. If they had just taken the Patton Oswalt bit and made it seem like they were riffing 3-4 lines about what we were eating in order to make themselves seem funnier, that is what I would have a problem with. It can be nigh on impossible to tell the difference because a lot of comedy is making it seem like you are being loose about what you're saying, rather than reading from a script
for sure, i'm just talking about the assumptions
if it sounds like they're repeating something, like it has a fixed conventional structure they're following, if it sounds very deliberate, that's a capital-J Joke. I assume they read it somewhere or something.
if it's natural, i would assume they're coming up with it themselves
as I said, if I know they aren't coming up with it, but they present it as though they are, it's kind of icky
i don't think it's immoral, as long as they're not monetizing it, but it's kind of scummy? like dishonestly posturing as being funnier than you are? it's a fine line though.
yeah immoral is kind of a ridiculous word to use here
but yeah dishonest posturing is the right word
it's kinda... off-putting.
okay it can be kind of funny. I've sat at a bar and heard three stories from two people that happened to their sisters or to them - and not in the "a friend of a friend, haha" way, but like nah totally it was me dude, that I could remember reading online
and I lived off of that the rest of the conversation
basically just enjoying them being kinda... silly? lame? embarrassing? Something like that.
'maybe my friends are funnier than your friends' is not a graceful thing to say, or helpful
i thought var was joking when he said it? actually meaning it is pretty obnoxious
I'm being entirely serious. It is strange to me to assume that funny things your friends say are taken from elsewhere because so much of my funny communication with friends is entirely natural. People come up with shit off the top of their head or present stories in funny ways and often say "oh that was a X line" or "oh that reminded me of Y" without ruining the conversation.
The situation you guys are presenting is entirely alien to me.
we're talking about "stealing jokes" right?
if somebody tells a structured joke that sounds rehearsed, the default assumption is that they're taking it from somewhere else. if it's off the cuff, the assumption is that they came up with it.
how would you define this?
Because if someone in my group of friends, for example, came up with calling KFC "sadness buckets" and riffed 3-4 lines about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with it themself. If they had just taken the Patton Oswalt bit and made it seem like they were riffing 3-4 lines about what we were eating in order to make themselves seem funnier, that is what I would have a problem with. It can be nigh on impossible to tell the difference because a lot of comedy is making it seem like you are being loose about what you're saying, rather than reading from a script
this is something I legitimately do not understand
are we assigned to funniness-castes now
are Level III Funniers not allowed to have children with Level I Funniers
being funny is definitely a big component of people's identity - like, say, 90% of the people in chat at any given time - and i definitely have less respect for people (or rather, their wit) who are directly cribbing lines from other people without saying they are?
even if it's not from a comedian. even if it's a joke you read on a forum and you don't say "it's like this guy said..." or something beforehand.
it's not some enormous moral issue or anything but it's kind of a minor matter of principle?
You must have a very low opinion of chat given how many jokes here are just recycled memes then :P
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
but this is the divide, right.
it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.
let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.
so in that situation, what can really be said?
i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am
but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.
'maybe my friends are funnier than your friends' is not a graceful thing to say, or helpful
i thought var was joking when he said it? actually meaning it is pretty obnoxious
I'm being entirely serious. It is strange to me to assume that funny things your friends say are taken from elsewhere because so much of my funny communication with friends is entirely natural. People come up with shit off the top of their head or present stories in funny ways and often say "oh that was a X line" or "oh that reminded me of Y" without ruining the conversation.
The situation you guys are presenting is entirely alien to me.
we're talking about "stealing jokes" right?
if somebody tells a structured joke that sounds rehearsed, the default assumption is that they're taking it from somewhere else. if it's off the cuff, the assumption is that they came up with it.
how would you define this?
Because if someone in my group of friends, for example, came up with calling KFC "sadness buckets" and riffed 3-4 lines about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with it themself. If they had just taken the Patton Oswalt bit and made it seem like they were riffing 3-4 lines about what we were eating in order to make themselves seem funnier, that is what I would have a problem with. It can be nigh on impossible to tell the difference because a lot of comedy is making it seem like you are being loose about what you're saying, rather than reading from a script
here I agree
if you tell a joke - and well, using "sadness buckets" and using the same lines to riff on it, isn't what I'd call tell a joke, it's just, well, riffing on it and being amusing, except super sad because you're doing conversation on a stolen script and pretending not to
but the point is in normal conversation if I tell a joke then I don't try hard to make it seem like I am being loose about what I'm saying
because I'm not a comedian and it's a normal conversation
I would definitely call it a joke. I think this is where our misunderstanding is coming from.
'maybe my friends are funnier than your friends' is not a graceful thing to say, or helpful
i thought var was joking when he said it? actually meaning it is pretty obnoxious
I'm being entirely serious. It is strange to me to assume that funny things your friends say are taken from elsewhere because so much of my funny communication with friends is entirely natural. People come up with shit off the top of their head or present stories in funny ways and often say "oh that was a X line" or "oh that reminded me of Y" without ruining the conversation.
The situation you guys are presenting is entirely alien to me.
we're talking about "stealing jokes" right?
if somebody tells a structured joke that sounds rehearsed, the default assumption is that they're taking it from somewhere else. if it's off the cuff, the assumption is that they came up with it.
how would you define this?
Because if someone in my group of friends, for example, came up with calling KFC "sadness buckets" and riffed 3-4 lines about it, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they came up with it themself. If they had just taken the Patton Oswalt bit and made it seem like they were riffing 3-4 lines about what we were eating in order to make themselves seem funnier, that is what I would have a problem with. It can be nigh on impossible to tell the difference because a lot of comedy is making it seem like you are being loose about what you're saying, rather than reading from a script
this is something I legitimately do not understand
are we assigned to funniness-castes now
are Level III Funniers not allowed to have children with Level I Funniers
being funny is definitely a big component of people's identity - like, say, 90% of the people in chat at any given time - and i definitely have less respect for people (or rather, their wit) who are directly cribbing lines from other people without saying they are?
even if it's not from a comedian. even if it's a joke you read on a forum and you don't say "it's like this guy said..." or something beforehand.
it's not some enormous moral issue or anything but it's kind of a minor matter of principle?
You must have a very low opinion of chat given how many jokes here are just recycled memes then :P
a meme is a structured joke that's almost always an obvious reference to something else
i also find memes pretty unfunny after the first few instances and if people never did "so X, such Y, wow" ever again that would be really fine by me
it isn't often that I think someone will care about the origin of the line and yeah I never consider that you'd think I came up with this anecdote or joke
i really don't find it that onerous to go "there's this one Louis CK bit I really like..."
i don't know about you guys but i'm usually not like rapid firing jokes off other people that oh noes the timing is going to be ruined if i cite it
and hey maybe you'll get them into louis ck! now you have another thing to talk about!
Yeah that also
Like if I'm gonna straight up try and recreate a Hedberg joke or something it's invariably going to be prefaced by "Oh man you've never heard of Mitch Heberg? You gotta check him out, like he has this one that goes"
Because I would genuinely be trying to convince them to check out Mitch Hedbergs stuff.
Just using a professional comedian's material out of nowhere as if you'd come up with it is really really weird. I've never encountered that in my life and, I mean, I know lolantecdotalevidence but, like.... yeah that just weird. And fairly dickish.
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VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.
Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.
creative vs academic
if someone was jamming on a guitar and playing other people's music it'd bug me if they passed it off as their own... but I don't expect them to explain who discovered the chords they're using (or whatever, idk how to say that. invented the chords, whatever)
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
but this is the divide, right.
it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.
let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.
so in that situation, what can really be said?
i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am
but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.
this is why i say it's a fine line
you can mark something you're saying as a reference, or as something you're pulling from elsewhere, or just kind of de-emphasize it or imply you don't want "credit," just by modulating the tone of your voice
there are some really subtle conversational dynamics involved in this
especially if everyone in the group consumes a lot of comedy and the assumption is they'll know what you're calling back to, or at least be aware that it's a callback
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.
Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.
creative vs academic
if someone was jamming on a guitar and playing other people's music it'd bug me if they passed it off as their own... but I don't expect them to explain who discovered the chords they're using (or whatever, idk how to say that. invented the chords, whatever)
Probably discovered, in much the same way you might say someone discovers a mathematical fact.
Really either way works, though I think discovered sounds more natural.
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
but this is the divide, right.
it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.
let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.
so in that situation, what can really be said?
i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am
but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.
if I recognized it I'd ask, as I said earlier. if I thought it sounded Professional Jokey, I'd ask. out of curiosity, to spark discussion about whoever wrote it, to see if you're holy shit really clever! I'd be curious.
you'd have to do this multiple times, consciously, before it would effect how I think of you. especially due to this conversation we're having right now.
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
but this is the divide, right.
it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.
let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.
so in that situation, what can really be said?
i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am
but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.
I would say that knowingly using someone else's joke in that situation would be a conscious and active deceit, even if the other person doesn't know or care.
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.
Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.
creative vs academic
if someone was jamming on a guitar and playing other people's music it'd bug me if they passed it off as their own... but I don't expect them to explain who discovered the chords they're using (or whatever, idk how to say that. invented the chords, whatever)
but you do expect them to explain the song instead of just playing a song?
they just wanted to play a nice song and didn't really see a reason that you'd care who made it
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
but this is the divide, right.
it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.
let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.
so in that situation, what can really be said?
i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am
but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.
I would say that knowingly using someone else's joke in that situation would be a conscious and active deceit, even if the other person doesn't know or care.
what is the deceit? i'm only misrepresenting the truth if the understood truth is "john thought that up on his own just now". that is not, i think, the universal assumption. maybe for you it is, so i could consider this in future conversations with you. but with plenty of people, this is definitionally not deceitful in any way.
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.
Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.
creative vs academic
if someone was jamming on a guitar and playing other people's music it'd bug me if they passed it off as their own... but I don't expect them to explain who discovered the chords they're using (or whatever, idk how to say that. invented the chords, whatever)
but you do expect them to explain the song instead of just playing a song?
they just wanted to play a nice song and didn't really see a reason that you'd care who made it
I guess, also, I just could not care less if one of my friends is straight stealing jokes from a comedian. If they are delivering with good timing, at good times in the conversation, and making me laugh? I do not care a single bit. I mean if they are just rattling off a comedians stand up routine for no reason, well, that is awkward conversation.
My friend's aren't professional comedians, they aren't going to go on stage, they aren't going to try to make money off of the jokes, the comedian who came up with the joke has zero impact on their life from this.
I see no reason to care at all.
this I can't argue with
but me?
that would piss me off. maybe I value a strong sense of humor too much but someone using someone else's work to pass themselves off as funny and creative is fucked up to me. it may not be monetary, but there is something of value they are earning through dishonesty.
but this is the divide, right.
it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.
let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.
so in that situation, what can really be said?
i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am
but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.
I would say that knowingly using someone else's joke in that situation would be a conscious and active deceit, even if the other person doesn't know or care.
what is the deceit? i'm only misrepresenting the truth if the understood truth is "john thought that up on his own just now". that is not, i think, the universal assumption. maybe for you it is, so i could consider this in future conversations with you. but with plenty of people, this is definitionally not deceitful in any way.
Before this conversation, I was under the impression that it was. It might still be! I dunno, this thread isn't a wonderful sample size.
Posts
To me someone who makes me laugh is funny to me. If it is their own jokes, someone else's, whatever, if they are making me laugh they are funny. Jokes in conversations are almost entirely timing, flow, etc anyway. And, once again, if someone says something funny to me I do not assume they came up with it, nor do I assume that they stole it. I simply do not care if they came up with it or stole it, because it was funny and it is making me laugh. If I explicitly ask them if it was original or not, and they lie? Yes, that is messed up, because they are lying. If someone tells a joke and makes no further claims about it I see no reason to assume or care if it is original or not.
Like, if I am having a conversation with someone and they bring in an idea from some textbook or philosopher they read I do not assume they invented it or that they are quoting someone. It is just a thing they know or believe for whatever reason. If I asked them where it was from I would expect them to be honest with me, but otherwise it is really irrelevant to the conversation at hand. I do not think someone is less smart for having their ideas from things they have read, nor do I think someone is less funny for having jokes from things they have heard. What they are not is professionals in those fields.
yeah immoral is kind of a ridiculous word to use here
but yeah dishonest posturing is the right word
it's kinda... off-putting.
okay it can be kind of funny. I've sat at a bar and heard three stories from two people that happened to their sisters or to them - and not in the "a friend of a friend, haha" way, but like nah totally it was me dude, that I could remember reading online
and I lived off of that the rest of the conversation
basically just enjoying them being kinda... silly? lame? embarrassing? Something like that.
You must have a very low opinion of chat given how many jokes here are just recycled memes then :P
but this is the divide, right.
it's only dishonest if they labor under the belief that you think they made this comment.
let's say there's a little throwaway line i heard in a standup performance, once. it's like, 15 words tops. i use it in response to something you say since it fits and the conversation. it makes you laugh. i do not cite it because it doesn't even occur to me that you are thinking i came up with it. maybe i came up with it, maybe i didn't? but in my social circle, there is nothing weird about just mixing your own thoughts and ones you've heard elsewhere.
so in that situation, what can really be said?
i guess you could say that you now think i am funnier than i really am
but i certainly didn't 'pass myself off as funny and creative' with someone else's work. that implies a conscious, active deceit it seems like? i never even considered that you would care about the origin of the line.
or really any references that just stand alone and awkward as though they're supposed to be funny
that makes me really uncomfortable because it's so unfunny but they're laughing like it should be and i want to just cup their cheek and say listen
listen man
you've got to shut up about this
Then I found out he was just stealing shit from Famy Guy and South Park.
Needless to say I turned him in to the MPAA and he was executed as an enema of the state.
But but but...
We are the knights who say ni!
I would definitely call it a joke. I think this is where our misunderstanding is coming from.
a meme is a structured joke that's almost always an obvious reference to something else
i also find memes pretty unfunny after the first few instances and if people never did "so X, such Y, wow" ever again that would be really fine by me
haha where did you get that
Fuck people who quote Monty Python. Fuck them forever.
i don't like spam
You're too sloooow!
it isn't often that I think someone will care about the origin of the line and yeah I never consider that you'd think I came up with this anecdote or joke
Yeah that also
Like if I'm gonna straight up try and recreate a Hedberg joke or something it's invariably going to be prefaced by "Oh man you've never heard of Mitch Heberg? You gotta check him out, like he has this one that goes"
Because I would genuinely be trying to convince them to check out Mitch Hedbergs stuff.
Just using a professional comedian's material out of nowhere as if you'd come up with it is really really weird. I've never encountered that in my life and, I mean, I know lolantecdotalevidence but, like.... yeah that just weird. And fairly dickish.
creative vs academic
if someone was jamming on a guitar and playing other people's music it'd bug me if they passed it off as their own... but I don't expect them to explain who discovered the chords they're using (or whatever, idk how to say that. invented the chords, whatever)
this is why i say it's a fine line
you can mark something you're saying as a reference, or as something you're pulling from elsewhere, or just kind of de-emphasize it or imply you don't want "credit," just by modulating the tone of your voice
there are some really subtle conversational dynamics involved in this
especially if everyone in the group consumes a lot of comedy and the assumption is they'll know what you're calling back to, or at least be aware that it's a callback
hair of the dog
Office Season five episode 20 about five minutes or so in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJQEl5vcAo
Probably discovered, in much the same way you might say someone discovers a mathematical fact.
Really either way works, though I think discovered sounds more natural.
i have literally never felt better by doing this
if I recognized it I'd ask, as I said earlier. if I thought it sounded Professional Jokey, I'd ask. out of curiosity, to spark discussion about whoever wrote it, to see if you're holy shit really clever! I'd be curious.
you'd have to do this multiple times, consciously, before it would effect how I think of you. especially due to this conversation we're having right now.
I would say that knowingly using someone else's joke in that situation would be a conscious and active deceit, even if the other person doesn't know or care.
but you do expect them to explain the song instead of just playing a song?
they just wanted to play a nice song and didn't really see a reason that you'd care who made it
but I mean
youre not shitting yourself presently
so
what is the deceit? i'm only misrepresenting the truth if the understood truth is "john thought that up on his own just now". that is not, i think, the universal assumption. maybe for you it is, so i could consider this in future conversations with you. but with plenty of people, this is definitionally not deceitful in any way.
drinking more to recover from a hangover?
yeah i'm pretty sure "hair of the dog" is a synonym for "i am an alcoholic"
Commodification. It's the craze that's sweeping the nation.
It's terrible.
I get it, it's Blake.
Point being this argument is terrible.
I said if they passed it off as their own
pithy summary that
is this why you post imgur stuff ad nauseum? Because you want us all to see the truth behind this post?
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Before this conversation, I was under the impression that it was. It might still be! I dunno, this thread isn't a wonderful sample size.