Why is it rude for the second guy going straight to double clear the intersection with the first guy?
Because it is very unsafe.
Chances are you and he are not going at the same speed. The person who has right of way and wants to turn left begins as soon as the first person passes by, which puts them on a collision course with the driver's side door of your car, which could very well have been obfuscated from motion because you are behind the car that was crosing the street first.
It's a bad move.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Thankfully most people around here understand a 4-way stop, it's the new fangled roundabout they have issues with
And don't get me started on pedestrians. Know how I said we are a city of 233,000 people? Well another 50k students show up in the fall and leave in the spring, and while they are here every single one will just step out into traffic without looking because "state law says cars have to yield to pedestrians at all times!" No, bitch, they only have to yield when you enter in a safe and legal manner. I can't tell you how many I've nearly clipped because they decided to in front of me while wearing all dark, non-reflective clothing.
Do you live around the VCU campus in Richmond, VA, or are people just stupid and awful everywhere?
No they are stupid assholes everywhere. Like people in store parking lots who walk diagonally across the road as slow as fucking possible.
Or walk down the middle of the lane 2, 3, 4 or more abreast blocking everything.
And then they stop and talk
Walk talkers are bad, car talkers need to be drug out of their cars and executed in the streets.
Once I came up behind a guy stopped at a red light yelling at some guy in the car next to him. Like, literally screaming at him. The light turned green and he continued to sit there, blocking traffic, yelling. I gave a little courtesy honk, which he ignored. I gave a slightly longer honk - pretty polite in response to some fuckwad blocking traffic so he can have a noisy argument with some other fuckwad also blocking traffic - and then he flipped me off and started yelling at me while his "friend" in the other car drove off, then proceeded to get out of the car, presumably so he could show me how big his dick was.
I smiled and waved at him and he paused, smiled back uncertainly, then got back in his car and drove away. I think he was confused by my not being a belligerent asshole.
People are weird sometimes.
Anyway: Carpool lanes.
Carpool lanes are the stupidest thing in the world when I am alone in my car. They are the best invention ever when I have a passenger with me, though. (On balance, I would prefer they be dumped, because they are a stupid panacea that allow most people to justify not springing for proper public transit.)
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
I do hate when I'm in the carpool lane some people think they are a faster fast lane, and fuck you buddy!
Ride my ass and you'll suddenly find yourself going 5 under the speed limit. Keep riding it and you'll be going 10 under. Do you really want to play the "how low will I go" game, buddy? Because I will win at zero
Edit: I should probably mention I only do this when the person has another, open lane to get into to go around.
Why is it rude for the second guy going straight to double clear the intersection with the first guy?
Because it is very unsafe.
Chances are you and he are not going at the same speed. The person who has right of way and wants to turn left begins as soon as the first person passes by, which puts them on a collision course with the driver's side door of your car, which could very well have been obfuscated from motion because you are behind the car that was crosing the street first.
It's a bad move.
But...if you all stop at the same time, the two people going straight will leave from where they are at around the same time, not obfuscating anyone's vision and you'll both exit the intersection around the same time as well. I don't get why the left turning dude would even imagine moving, when he'd be checking the person who he's supposed to give right-of-way to(you), then noticing the first person moving while you're moving and ta-da. Clear. But drivers are bad and things don't move like they should and I could easily see what you're talking about happening. Don't get me started on cyclists and shit they do in Seattle...
Carpoolcarpoolcarpool. One of the things I always forget when driving around here(and I guess when I was in CA) is which carpool lanes are only on at odd weekday hours and which ones are 24/7. It frustrates me when I randomly happen to go somewhere around midnight and there's a weird slowdown in traffic between two people, but the only way around is the carpool lane. I just know it'd be that one time where it's 24/7 lane and a cop is sitting right there and bah. I'd say 6-10am and 4-7pm are fine.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
something about how any Internet conversation about anything related to cars will eventually devolve into bitchfests about other drivers
I'm not sure the internet is required for this.
There's construction going on 95 here that I think may be an HOV lane
but like
it's in the dumbest place, i think they're only doing it there because there is room for new lanes
it's only congested there during morning rush hour, but the congestion is actually due to the interchange with 64 and Virginia drivers not understanding how to navigate a zipper merge (hint: i have the right of way no matter what is not the correct answer)
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Why is it rude for the second guy going straight to double clear the intersection with the first guy?
Because it is very unsafe.
Chances are you and he are not going at the same speed. The person who has right of way and wants to turn left begins as soon as the first person passes by, which puts them on a collision course with the driver's side door of your car, which could very well have been obfuscated from motion because you are behind the car that was crosing the street first.
It's a bad move.
But...if you all stop at the same time, the two people going straight will leave from where they are at around the same time, not obfuscating anyone's vision and you'll both exit the intersection around the same time as well. I don't get why the left turning dude would even imagine moving, when he'd be checking the person who he's supposed to give right-of-way to(you), then noticing the first person moving while you're moving and ta-da. Clear. But drivers are bad and things don't move like they should and I could easily see what you're talking about happening. Don't get me started on cyclists and shit they do in Seattle...
Carpoolcarpoolcarpool. One of the things I always forget when driving around here(and I guess when I was in CA) is which carpool lanes are only on at odd weekday hours and which ones are 24/7. It frustrates me when I randomly happen to go somewhere around midnight and there's a weird slowdown in traffic between two people, but the only way around is the carpool lane. I just know it'd be that one time where it's 24/7 lane and a cop is sitting right there and bah. I'd say 6-10am and 4-7pm are fine.
guy turning left is on the same side as one of the guys going straight... it's like LH ST RH lanes
so the guy going straight who has the right of way goes and the guy next to him turning left also goes, but the guy straight across tries to go straight as well because why wait your turn, i can go now and it's no problem right?
this isn't Nam there are rules, etc
rules like having to have multiple people in your vehicle in order to get in the carpool lane
guy turning left is on the same side as one of the guys going straight... it's like LH ST RH lanes
so the guy going straight who has the right of way goes and the guy next to him turning left also goes, but the guy straight across tries to go straight as well because why wait your turn, i can go now and it's no problem right?
this isn't Nam there are rules, etc
rules like having to have multiple people in your vehicle in order to get in the carpool lane
That's not what my scenario was. Four people are at a four way stop, one at each intersection. Nobody is on the same side.
For yours, yes, you'd let both of them go. That's a no-brainer. There's a multitude of ways for multiple configurations of an intersection and the rules that are needed. I bet it'd make a great puzzle game...
guy turning left is on the same side as one of the guys going straight... it's like LH ST RH lanes
so the guy going straight who has the right of way goes and the guy next to him turning left also goes, but the guy straight across tries to go straight as well because why wait your turn, i can go now and it's no problem right?
this isn't Nam there are rules, etc
rules like having to have multiple people in your vehicle in order to get in the carpool lane
That's not what my scenario was. Four people are at a four way stop, one at each intersection. Nobody is on the same side.
That one, yes, you'd let both of them go. That's a no-brainer. There's a multitude of ways for multiple configurations of an intersection and the rules that are needed. I bet it'd make a great puzzle game...
The real rules are that when all 4 sides are full, you go counter-clockwise through the crowd.
Also, it is not essential to wait for the person to fully cross the intersection, just for them to be past your car, so you can begin your turn or crossing.
If you break the rules by going straight because the guy across from you is going straight, the person following the rules won't see you behind their car, and you gonna get t-boned.
See?
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
something about how any Internet conversation about anything related to cars will eventually devolve into bitchfests about other drivers
Awww, you're no fun, dad.
Okay, okay, let's refocus to carpooling.
I carpool with my coworker. We live, like, three blocks from each other, and work is about 15 miles away. She literally drives past my house to get there, and there are carpool lanes to and from that actually make a significant time difference. We work similar schedules. We are the poster child for convenient carpool situations.
And yet if my family had a second car, it would be hard to justify carpooling half the time, because of the convenience of being able to leave whenever the hell I want, or run errands in the middle of the day. It's not some swaggering, American, car-as-an-extension-of-my-dick thing, as was suggested above, it's just that it's really nice to go wherever you want without having to worry about carpool partners, or mass-transit schedules, or walking from the bus stop to your destination in the rain. It's basically about how much you value free time and convenience.
Which is why seriously curtailing emissions or road congestion, and expanding public transit, pretty much has to be a government action and not just waiting for the free market to respond. People will pay fucking bank for their free time.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Why is it rude for the second guy going straight to double clear the intersection with the first guy?
Because it is very unsafe.
Chances are you and he are not going at the same speed. The person who has right of way and wants to turn left begins as soon as the first person passes by, which puts them on a collision course with the driver's side door of your car, which could very well have been obfuscated from motion because you are behind the car that was crosing the street first.
It's a bad move.
But...if you all stop at the same time, the two people going straight will leave from where they are at around the same time, not obfuscating anyone's vision and you'll both exit the intersection around the same time as well. I don't get why the left turning dude would even imagine moving, when he'd be checking the person who he's supposed to give right-of-way to(you), then noticing the first person moving while you're moving and ta-da. Clear. But drivers are bad and things don't move like they should and I could easily see what you're talking about happening. Don't get me started on cyclists and shit they do in Seattle...
Carpoolcarpoolcarpool. One of the things I always forget when driving around here(and I guess when I was in CA) is which carpool lanes are only on at odd weekday hours and which ones are 24/7. It frustrates me when I randomly happen to go somewhere around midnight and there's a weird slowdown in traffic between two people, but the only way around is the carpool lane. I just know it'd be that one time where it's 24/7 lane and a cop is sitting right there and bah. I'd say 6-10am and 4-7pm are fine.
guy turning left is on the same side as one of the guys going straight... it's like LH ST RH lanes
so the guy going straight who has the right of way goes and the guy next to him turning left also goes, but the guy straight across tries to go straight as well because why wait your turn, i can go now and it's no problem right?
this isn't Nam there are rules, etc
rules like having to have multiple people in your vehicle in order to get in the carpool lane
Around here it's accepted that the people going straight have right of way over any one turning ever, so it's the person turning left that has to wait to turn
If two vehicles approach an intersection from opposite directions and one wants to turn left across the other's path, the turning vehicle must wait until the other has passed.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
or, as well, someone on the left side turning left after the person on the top goes straight while the person on the bottom jumps the line and also goes straight
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
shit sorry
done with that tangent
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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ShogunHair long; money long; me and broke wizards we don't get alongRegistered Userregular
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
And yet if my family had a second car, it would be hard to justify carpooling half the time, because of the convenience of being able to leave whenever the hell I want, or run errands in the middle of the day. It's not some swaggering, American, car-as-an-extension-of-my-dick thing, as was suggested above, it's just that it's really nice to go wherever you want without having to worry about carpool partners, or mass-transit schedules, or walking from the bus stop to your destination in the rain. It's basically about how much you value free time and convenience.
That sense of entitlement to convenience is a manifestation of the car-as-dick swagger mentality.
"Delay my desires for 8 minutes while I wait on the bus? Pish posh! I have hot pockets to buy NAO!"
It is really nice to be self-centered, but that is not an argument for why one ought to act that way.
IMO, that situation should have its Stop sign replaced with a Traffic Signal. A 4-way stop in which 8 cars could arrive simultaneously is just asking for trouble.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Carpooling is basically the worst because you're relying directly on other people to have their shit together and be on time, etc.
That's why we should just skip it and go straight to robust public transit infrastructure.
I would happily take a bus or train to work every day if that option were available to me. You couldn't get me to agree to a carpool to save my life.
I... didn't provide it as an argument for why people ought to act that way?
In fact, I specifically argued that using government action to counter that was a good idea, so, you know. The opposite of what you said.
It's not even a sense of entitlement, either, it's just recognition that options exist. It's a question of: Would you rather have thirty minutes of extra time, or two bucks in your pocket?
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
edited April 2014
This is why there are rules.
#3 jumping ahead of queue is putting themselves in #2's blind spot when they get their right of way to turn.
I... didn't provide it as an argument for why people ought to act that way?
In fact, I specifically argued that using government action to counter that was a good idea, so, you know. The opposite of what you said.
It's not even a sense of entitlement, either, it's just recognition that options exist. It's a question of: Would you rather have thirty minutes of extra time, or two bucks in your pocket?
I did not mean to suggest that you were offering an argument for why people ought to act that way. I apologize if that's how my post came across.
What I was trying to articulate, albeit poorly, was that while personal convenience is the basis for many of our decisions, it perhaps oughtn't be.
Short answer: the primary purpose of an HOV lane is to reduce air pollution.
As you suggested in your post, people tend to value their own free time more than the well-being of the global environment. In a way, carpool lanes are trying to solve a problem most people don't care about. Or, at least, their actions demonstrate a lack of concern for air pollution.
So, the "problem" the government action would solve is the problem of being self-centered pricks. Which...come to think of it...is pretty much the basis of every problem government exists to solve.
I do maintain, though, that the basis of those options is the sense of entitlement to selfish actions. Phrasing the question as "what do I prefer" instead of "what is best for the long-term survival of the species" is a kind of entitlement.
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CaptainPeacockBoard Game HoarderTop o' the LakeRegistered Userregular
I carpool with my coworker only because it is highly convenient for me. Sad but its true. I approve of public transportation, but I don't use it because it lacks the very important qualities of being convenient, fast and punctual. When it can be all of these things for me, it will be option #1.
Protip for HOV lanes: you cannot use them as a passing lane if you don't meet the occupancy requirements. When I worked for the Bellevue district court, people tried to get out of HOV tickets all the time with the excuse of "I was only in it for a second to pass someone." Judges always just filed those responses in the Go Fuck Yourself basket.
Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
can we also talk about those HOV lanes which also happen to be pay to drive lanes too or the fact that there are far too many toll roads on the east coast now and they're all super expensive
can we also talk about those HOV lanes which also happen to be pay to drive lanes too or the fact that there are far too many toll roads on the east coast now and they're all super expensive
Yes to the first, no to the second.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
can we also talk about those HOV lanes which also happen to be pay to drive lanes too or the fact that there are far too many toll roads on the east coast now and they're all super expensive
Honestly I'm not sure about the dynamics of HOT lanes.
The links I put in the OP discuss them a bit.
What seems to be the case is:
1) Yes, rich people use them more.
2) But they seem to reduce congestion anyway.
Honestly, I'm not sure how HOT lanes reduce congestion. My suspicion is that still they incentivize some people to carpool (since being in an HOV lets you evade the toll), but without the significant deleterious impact on the other lanes that a full HOV lane brings.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Maybe the problem is there just isn't enough of a difference between carpool lanes and regular lanes? If regular lanes were stuck moving 20 mph while carpool lanes were cruising by at 70, i'll bet that would give people an incentive to carpool. Especially if it was actively enforced.
I'm always scared of going into those HOT lanes when I have multiple people in my car
How are the detectors supposed to know not to charge my transponder
AAAAA!!! PLAAAYGUUU!!!!
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
Maybe the problem is there just isn't enough of a difference between carpool lanes and regular lanes? If regular lanes were stuck moving 20 mph while carpool lanes were cruising by at 70, i'll bet that would give people an incentive to carpool. Especially if it was actively enforced.
no, that happens sometimes. I think it's more that people just don't like to carpool
Maybe the problem is there just isn't enough of a difference between carpool lanes and regular lanes? If regular lanes were stuck moving 20 mph while carpool lanes were cruising by at 70, i'll bet that would give people an incentive to carpool. Especially if it was actively enforced.
no, that happens sometimes. I think it's more that people just don't like to carpool
Yeah, being around other people sucks. That's why bikes are awesome.
I carpool because I hate driving, but I love sleeping in. If I took mass transit, it would cost me more money, and more importantly, my commute would literally be an hour longer each direction. Which means waking up at 5 AM and getting home at 8 PM. Sharing a ride every other day means that I don't have to drive 50% of the time, and I can nap in the car when I am not driving the pool. I love my carpool, and I would be a sad panda if I had to either drive alone or take mass transit (mostly because of the longer commute, not the whole "fuck you all, I have a car" mentality).
I love the carpool lane to avoid heavy traffic, but one thing that annoys me is a carpool lane on a frickin exit ramp. We have one highway that exits to another perpendicular highway, and the carpool is only on the exit ramp. You get around 100m, tops, of free and clear diamond lane access, and it exits directly onto the normal noncarpool highway. Seriously? That helps no one.
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
Today I popped out in the carpool lane with a bus in front of me and a bus behind me and the non-carpool lanes were bumper to bumper. Though, in Australia we call them transit lanes.
There were about 10 thousand police in one of the stopping zones pulling over everyone, including me, for being in the carpool lane without the required number of passengers. There was a police dude standing a few hundred metres ahead radioing forward about the number of people in each car and whether to stop them.
I explained that I intended to move over but I had no way of doing so without completely stopping the carpool lane and consequently the buses that were behind me. I was informed that it was more important to move out of the carpool lane than ensure the flow of traffic.
Contra the OP I always understood that the primary purpose of the transit lanes were to ease traffic congestion for the maximum number of people - buses use them and carry loads of people, you take a car off of the road and everyone benefits and they also get to use the Transit lane as the reward/incentive.
So the explanation that I should have stopped and forced my way into the non-transit lanes strikes me as utterly bonkers.
Posts
Not trying to justify what that driver did, just trying to stop you from getting run over. Trust no-one.
Because it is very unsafe.
Chances are you and he are not going at the same speed. The person who has right of way and wants to turn left begins as soon as the first person passes by, which puts them on a collision course with the driver's side door of your car, which could very well have been obfuscated from motion because you are behind the car that was crosing the street first.
It's a bad move.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Once I came up behind a guy stopped at a red light yelling at some guy in the car next to him. Like, literally screaming at him. The light turned green and he continued to sit there, blocking traffic, yelling. I gave a little courtesy honk, which he ignored. I gave a slightly longer honk - pretty polite in response to some fuckwad blocking traffic so he can have a noisy argument with some other fuckwad also blocking traffic - and then he flipped me off and started yelling at me while his "friend" in the other car drove off, then proceeded to get out of the car, presumably so he could show me how big his dick was.
I smiled and waved at him and he paused, smiled back uncertainly, then got back in his car and drove away. I think he was confused by my not being a belligerent asshole.
People are weird sometimes.
Anyway: Carpool lanes.
Carpool lanes are the stupidest thing in the world when I am alone in my car. They are the best invention ever when I have a passenger with me, though. (On balance, I would prefer they be dumped, because they are a stupid panacea that allow most people to justify not springing for proper public transit.)
pleasepaypreacher.net
Ride my ass and you'll suddenly find yourself going 5 under the speed limit. Keep riding it and you'll be going 10 under. Do you really want to play the "how low will I go" game, buddy? Because I will win at zero
Edit: I should probably mention I only do this when the person has another, open lane to get into to go around.
something about how any Internet conversation about anything related to cars will eventually devolve into bitchfests about other drivers
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Look even the most enlightened mother fucker in the world would blow a gasket after twenty minutes in LA traffic.
pleasepaypreacher.net
But...if you all stop at the same time, the two people going straight will leave from where they are at around the same time, not obfuscating anyone's vision and you'll both exit the intersection around the same time as well. I don't get why the left turning dude would even imagine moving, when he'd be checking the person who he's supposed to give right-of-way to(you), then noticing the first person moving while you're moving and ta-da. Clear. But drivers are bad and things don't move like they should and I could easily see what you're talking about happening. Don't get me started on cyclists and shit they do in Seattle...
Carpoolcarpoolcarpool. One of the things I always forget when driving around here(and I guess when I was in CA) is which carpool lanes are only on at odd weekday hours and which ones are 24/7. It frustrates me when I randomly happen to go somewhere around midnight and there's a weird slowdown in traffic between two people, but the only way around is the carpool lane. I just know it'd be that one time where it's 24/7 lane and a cop is sitting right there and bah. I'd say 6-10am and 4-7pm are fine.
I'm not sure the internet is required for this.
There's construction going on 95 here that I think may be an HOV lane
but like
it's in the dumbest place, i think they're only doing it there because there is room for new lanes
it's only congested there during morning rush hour, but the congestion is actually due to the interchange with 64 and Virginia drivers not understanding how to navigate a zipper merge (hint: i have the right of way no matter what is not the correct answer)
guy turning left is on the same side as one of the guys going straight... it's like LH ST RH lanes
so the guy going straight who has the right of way goes and the guy next to him turning left also goes, but the guy straight across tries to go straight as well because why wait your turn, i can go now and it's no problem right?
this isn't Nam there are rules, etc
rules like having to have multiple people in your vehicle in order to get in the carpool lane
That's not what my scenario was. Four people are at a four way stop, one at each intersection. Nobody is on the same side.
For yours, yes, you'd let both of them go. That's a no-brainer. There's a multitude of ways for multiple configurations of an intersection and the rules that are needed. I bet it'd make a great puzzle game...
The real rules are that when all 4 sides are full, you go counter-clockwise through the crowd.
Also, it is not essential to wait for the person to fully cross the intersection, just for them to be past your car, so you can begin your turn or crossing.
If you break the rules by going straight because the guy across from you is going straight, the person following the rules won't see you behind their car, and you gonna get t-boned.
See?
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Awww, you're no fun, dad.
Okay, okay, let's refocus to carpooling.
I carpool with my coworker. We live, like, three blocks from each other, and work is about 15 miles away. She literally drives past my house to get there, and there are carpool lanes to and from that actually make a significant time difference. We work similar schedules. We are the poster child for convenient carpool situations.
And yet if my family had a second car, it would be hard to justify carpooling half the time, because of the convenience of being able to leave whenever the hell I want, or run errands in the middle of the day. It's not some swaggering, American, car-as-an-extension-of-my-dick thing, as was suggested above, it's just that it's really nice to go wherever you want without having to worry about carpool partners, or mass-transit schedules, or walking from the bus stop to your destination in the rain. It's basically about how much you value free time and convenience.
Which is why seriously curtailing emissions or road congestion, and expanding public transit, pretty much has to be a government action and not just waiting for the free market to respond. People will pay fucking bank for their free time.
This is what I'm talking about.
Around here it's accepted that the people going straight have right of way over any one turning ever, so it's the person turning left that has to wait to turn
From http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/motorist/rules/overview.htm
done with that tangent
you're forgetting part of the equation that includes how many internet tough-guy-drivers there are in the thread
Shogun Streams Vidya
That sense of entitlement to convenience is a manifestation of the car-as-dick swagger mentality.
"Delay my desires for 8 minutes while I wait on the bus? Pish posh! I have hot pockets to buy NAO!"
It is really nice to be self-centered, but that is not an argument for why one ought to act that way.
That's why we should just skip it and go straight to robust public transit infrastructure.
I would happily take a bus or train to work every day if that option were available to me. You couldn't get me to agree to a carpool to save my life.
In fact, I specifically argued that using government action to counter that was a good idea, so, you know. The opposite of what you said.
It's not even a sense of entitlement, either, it's just recognition that options exist. It's a question of: Would you rather have thirty minutes of extra time, or two bucks in your pocket?
This is why there are rules.
#3 jumping ahead of queue is putting themselves in #2's blind spot when they get their right of way to turn.
edit: whoops, we moved on. Sorry.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I did not mean to suggest that you were offering an argument for why people ought to act that way. I apologize if that's how my post came across.
What I was trying to articulate, albeit poorly, was that while personal convenience is the basis for many of our decisions, it perhaps oughtn't be.
As you suggested in your post, people tend to value their own free time more than the well-being of the global environment. In a way, carpool lanes are trying to solve a problem most people don't care about. Or, at least, their actions demonstrate a lack of concern for air pollution.
So, the "problem" the government action would solve is the problem of being self-centered pricks. Which...come to think of it...is pretty much the basis of every problem government exists to solve.
I do maintain, though, that the basis of those options is the sense of entitlement to selfish actions. Phrasing the question as "what do I prefer" instead of "what is best for the long-term survival of the species" is a kind of entitlement.
Protip for HOV lanes: you cannot use them as a passing lane if you don't meet the occupancy requirements. When I worked for the Bellevue district court, people tried to get out of HOV tickets all the time with the excuse of "I was only in it for a second to pass someone." Judges always just filed those responses in the Go Fuck Yourself basket.
Yes to the first, no to the second.
As a motorcyclist, I'm okay with this, but I wonder what everyone else thinks.
Honestly I'm not sure about the dynamics of HOT lanes.
The links I put in the OP discuss them a bit.
What seems to be the case is:
1) Yes, rich people use them more.
2) But they seem to reduce congestion anyway.
Honestly, I'm not sure how HOT lanes reduce congestion. My suspicion is that still they incentivize some people to carpool (since being in an HOV lets you evade the toll), but without the significant deleterious impact on the other lanes that a full HOV lane brings.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
If you're rich, pay the HOT toll. If you're poor, carpool or take the bus. If you're middle-class, buy a Prius. Everybody wins! Kumbaya and shit.
Fuck off, Libertarian dude.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
How are the detectors supposed to know not to charge my transponder
no, that happens sometimes. I think it's more that people just don't like to carpool
I love the carpool lane to avoid heavy traffic, but one thing that annoys me is a carpool lane on a frickin exit ramp. We have one highway that exits to another perpendicular highway, and the carpool is only on the exit ramp. You get around 100m, tops, of free and clear diamond lane access, and it exits directly onto the normal noncarpool highway. Seriously? That helps no one.
There were about 10 thousand police in one of the stopping zones pulling over everyone, including me, for being in the carpool lane without the required number of passengers. There was a police dude standing a few hundred metres ahead radioing forward about the number of people in each car and whether to stop them.
I explained that I intended to move over but I had no way of doing so without completely stopping the carpool lane and consequently the buses that were behind me. I was informed that it was more important to move out of the carpool lane than ensure the flow of traffic.
Contra the OP I always understood that the primary purpose of the transit lanes were to ease traffic congestion for the maximum number of people - buses use them and carry loads of people, you take a car off of the road and everyone benefits and they also get to use the Transit lane as the reward/incentive.
So the explanation that I should have stopped and forced my way into the non-transit lanes strikes me as utterly bonkers.