I think in the end, MN9 didn't suck so much as it was just disappointing.
I'd agree with that. I personally managed to avoid most discussion of it before I played it (I already owned a copy, so why color my first impressions?) and I found it to be fine for the mostr part, and quite fun in a number of places. I especially liked the challenge of the final boss.
Worst part of the game is definitely the mines, though. Oh my god the frame rate drop. And one of the platforming bits took me more times to get right than anything else but the final boss, because I didn't realize that I had to grab a moving platform's edge instead of jumping onto it, and I had a drill chasing me.
I finally got the Mighty No. 9 art book/strategy guide. I know the game apparently sucks, but I've got to get around to playing it myself eventually. The art book has all of the initial designs for Call featured, but it doesn't feature my favorite piece of concept art, which was basically "Beck in various Mega Man series art styles".
In other news, I've heard rumors that IDW got the license for a Mega Man comic but can't find a source.
That's a colorized re-release of Hitoshi Ariga's manga. I'd been seeing rumors about a new comic from IDW, but I'm going to go ahead and assume that was just wishful thinking for now.
I finally got the Mighty No. 9 art book/strategy guide. I know the game apparently sucks, but I've got to get around to playing it myself eventually. The art book has all of the initial designs for Call featured, but it doesn't feature my favorite piece of concept art, which was basically "Beck in various Mega Man series art styles".
In other news, I've heard rumors that IDW got the license for a Mega Man comic but can't find a source.
That's a colorized re-release of Hitoshi Ariga's manga. I'd been seeing rumors about a new comic from IDW, but I'm going to go ahead and assume that was just wishful thinking for now.
Maybe confusing with Sonic being published by IDW?
I wish I had been reading the Archie comic when it was being released instead of getting the trades now. I hadn't expected them to craft such interesting stories out of the classic series, but they really impressed me by focusing on the distinction that Robot Masters like Mega Man don't actually have free will in the same sense that Reploids eventually would (which led to a scene where Guts Man acts like he isn't bothered by the idea of being shutdown, telling a disturbed Mega Man that they are "life-like", but not actually alive).
Hitoshi Ariga's manga are nicer looking, but in terms of writing the Archie comics were definitely superior. This point is actually pretty weird to me, as Ariga is so big a Mega Man fan that he drew Mega Man Gigamix in his spare time over a number of years without a guarantee that Capcom would be interested in publishing it, while Ian Flynn (the head writer for Archie’s Mega Man) was initially much less familiar with the franchise but ended up doing a lot more interesting things with its characters and concepts.
In any case they were both far superior to the four issue Dreamwave comic.
Are the levels good? "Roguelike platformer" always worries me a little, as I feel like platformer levels are at their best when the rooms are designed well to be a specific sort of challenge.
I wish I had been reading the Archie comic when it was being released instead of getting the trades now. I hadn't expected them to craft such interesting stories out of the classic series, but they really impressed me by focusing on the distinction that Robot Masters like Mega Man don't actually have free will in the same sense that Reploids eventually would (which led to a scene where Guts Man acts like he isn't bothered by the idea of being shutdown, telling a disturbed Mega Man that they are "life-like", but not actually alive).
Couldn't be all that hard to pull off creating a story, all the dots were in place to connect but Capcom really didn't give a shit about contiguous story until the X series so they just sat. The framework was there, they would occasionally come up with some potentially really interesting plot elements, but it was only thought up with respect to the given game at the time - they had no further interest in any of it past that particular entry.
The ending to Mega Man 7 for example was probably the most important moment in the entire series that Capcom went absolutely nowhere with with respect to the Robot Masters. It was such a waste.
Are the levels good? "Roguelike platformer" always worries me a little, as I feel like platformer levels are at their best when the rooms are designed well to be a specific sort of challenge.
I'm not really keen on starting here because I hate for my initial specific feedback to overshadow the great bits. But I do think the level design is one of the weaker points. It is still pretty good, and it's not really harmed by the random factor. The chunks that are randomized are pretty large, it's not like Spelunky where each screen is random. I suspect that there are probably 10 or so "chunks" that make up a stage, but I don't know if I'd have really noticed if I hadn't run the same stage back to back and seen a repeated bit that I recognized.
There are just a few chunks where I thought I was going the right way, but I ended up at a powerup and backtracked a bit, not sure where I missed a branch.
I couldn't get into 20XX. The physics of it feels different enough from MMX that I just bounced way hard off of it. And the randomized levels remove the ability to memorize layouts, which help when learning the mega man games. And sometimes the level design is very unfair.
Also the whole roguelike stuff pushed me the wrong way. It felt like I was making zero progress towards unlocking anything more permanent from what I could tell.
edit: for reference, I don't have issues with roguelikes/random level generation. Like, Dead Cells is my fucking jam right now. But 20XX doesn't feel like it plays well enough to match something like that. Also they could go a long way with not making every stage built on a bottomless pit baseplate.
editx2: played it about eight months ago when it was still in early access, guess they went live with 1.0 last week. couldn't hurt to try it again.
20XX is decent - I bought it in early access when it was on sale and waited for 1.0, so long ago that I forgot it was a roguelite. I thought it was a metroidvania and was disappointed, I think I'm over this genre. The gameplay is good, it's slavishly faithful to Mega Man X/Zero. Not a fan of the aesthetic though and it seems to get repetitive very quickly.
Yeah, I think roguelite is something that everyone's trying to do, but only a minority can really do well. The rest would be better served focusing on making a carefully crafted experience rather than trying to produce a procedurally generated infinite jigsaw puzzle of randomly sequenced set pieces.
Still interested in giving 20XX a shot myself, though.
Rogue games ask you to test your skill against the core rules of the game itself, so controls must be perfect, the objects in the game must be fun to interact with repeatedly and the levels have to generate fairly and without repeating stuff from the last run. Even beloved ones like The Binding of Isaac struggle to attain that.
20XX is a tad on the ugly side in my opinion, but I'd love to give it a try.
I got to the last stage in co-op tonight. My partner was dead and I had 1hp. My wife came into my office and I reflexively hit the pause button and the game crashed.
So. There's that.
Also the last stages are bullshit, and co-op makes it worse. When everything is built over a pit and falling in doesn't kill you but zaps you back to the last solid ground you were on, it's easy to get frustrated because now you're like 30 seconds behind your partner. And there's way too much "pit gauntlet" in those last stages.
So I don't know if I'm going to do that again. A shame, because the co-op is really fun otherwise.
Edit: It really needs the bubble system from the New Super Mario Bros. games.
What are bottomless pits even for? I mean, from a gameplay standpoint?
Replace 70% of bottomless pits with lava that bounces the hero back up with a flame trail, spikes that break after you hit them, water, springs, sludge that slows the hero down, lasers, up drafts, and whatever you can think of 2017.
What are bottomless pits even for? I mean, from a gameplay standpoint?
Replace 70% of bottomless pits with lava that bounces the hero back up with a flame trail, spikes that break after you hit them, water, springs, sludge that slows the hero down, lasers, up drafts, and whatever you can think of 2017.
they're effectively checkpoints
if you fall in a pit, you get warped back to the last solid platform you were on and lose 1 HP (the roguelike aspect of 20XX is HP, if you lose all your HP that's that for the run). many of those levels have sections where you have falling blocks or the infamous disappearing/reappearing blocks all interspaced between laser beam barriers that turn on and off. and then enemies sprinkled in the middle of all that. its incredibly frustrating design; they're obviously chasing the people who can do mega man levels like that blindfolded but the difference is those levels have the same design and enemy placement every time.
I think what bothers me most is that there are a lot of moving platforms where you have to ride the platforms through intermittent lasers, but they're not timed. Do you might have to wait several cycles before the platform+beam are in states where it's possible to move forward without damage. Like, a rising and falling platform might hit its apex every 4 seconds, but you need to jump to another platform across a laser that cycles every 3 seconds.
Like I am not saying "don't" try 20XX for anyone on the fence. You never know, it might surprise you personally but I didn't care for it basically because I consider the memorization aspect of MM games to be a core thing you can't just remove easily.
If you really want some sort of action roguelike to scratch that itch try Dead Cells.
To clarify what I meant earlier, when it comes to games where the fun comes from interacting with (and surviving) the environment, crafting actual level design is important. If the game is more about interacting with the enemies (and possibly grinding/loot), and the environment is really only there to be filled with enemies, then procedural generation is fine (but that fight/grind/loot loop needs to be pretty damn compelling to make me forget how boring and samey all the environments will feel).
Mega Man has a fair amount of combat, but it's not really the point. The enemies are mainly there to make the level even more dangerous. So to me, randomly generating the most important part of the game feels like completely missing the point.
Like I am not saying "don't" try 20XX for anyone on the fence. You never know, it might surprise you personally but I didn't care for it basically because I consider the memorization aspect of MM games to be a core thing you can't just remove easily.
If you really want some sort of action roguelike to scratch that itch try Dead Cells.
Co-op Dead Cells would be incredible.
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Like I am not saying "don't" try 20XX for anyone on the fence. You never know, it might surprise you personally but I didn't care for it basically because I consider the memorization aspect of MM games to be a core thing you can't just remove easily.
If you really want some sort of action roguelike to scratch that itch try Dead Cells.
Co-op Dead Cells would be incredible.
Oh god, yes please. Honestly, Harmony of Despair on Steam wouldn't be bad either? Or something along those lines.
I wanted so badly to like 20XX. The level design is not good (which could almost be excusable if it was entirely procedurally generated, but because it uses premade sections, it is not) and if I can be shallow about it, the Flash game aesthetic is a huge turnoff. I'm better off playing Endless in MM9/10.
I've actually come around on 20XX. It functions really well as a roguelike MM-inspired platformer, even if it fails as an homage or "spiritual successor". Like, the boss weapon mechanic may as well not even exist since the default weapon is so good. I think the difficulty spike in the last two stages is a bit much and basically necessitates the no-knockback armor. But ultimately that works in its favor - unlike most roguelikes I have a solid expectation of how long a run is going to last because either I'll make it to the "wily stages" in roughly 30-40 minutes and either die there or complete the run.
On the flip side of the coin, I'm really trying hard to like Azure Striker Gunvolt, but there are a few things blocking me from really liking it.
1) I can't give a tin shit about the characters
2) The primary mechanic fills the screen with so much bullshit I can't tell what bosses are doing except for the most telegraphed moves
3) The stages are complete non-events
4) The crafting/gear/skills system seems wholly superfluous
I appreciate the need to differentiate it from Rockman, and I do think that playing as Copen in ASG2 works loads better than MN09's dash mechanic. I just think the Flashfield attack falls flat. It removes the "jump-and-shootman" element, while at the same time making bosses harder than they ought to be.
Capcom's hosting a Mega Man 30th Anniversary panel at the Tokyo Game Show this month. Surely they're going to announce something substantial, right? Otherwise why even bother?
Capcom's hosting a Mega Man 30th Anniversary panel at the Tokyo Game Show this month. Surely they're going to announce something substantial, right? Otherwise why even bother?
we're proud to announce we're re-releasing Street Fighter x Mega Man, a product we didn't make and merely latched on to
I'm not normally a fighting game player, but I am a huge Mega Man fan, so I got Marvel vs Capcom Infinite and blazed through the story mode today while my cousin watched.
This plot was bonkers, but the way Ultron-Sigma got taken out made me pretty happy!
Watching a cutscene and seeing a computer display featuring the words "Infinity Buster" got me super hyped for the finale.
Attendees and fans on Twitter find it highly suspect this new design is *just* for a figure. Nendoroids are traditionally based on pre-existing character designs – nothing has been created from scratch. What's more, wouldn't Nendoroid concept art have Nendo-like proportions? Unless Roll intends to break tradition, speculation says this design belongs to something more.
Hexmage-PA on
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited September 2017
Honestly after that weird piece of art in Legacy Collection 2 I fully assume Capcom is doing something. Part of me sort of even wonders if seeing Inafune flop *hard* on MN9 was enough motivation for them to stop shitting on his character (well, basically his character :P). I still say they got suuuuuuuper spiteful when he left.
PS3 should. I think PSP is one of those weird cases where you have to transfer it from the PS3, or however that goes -- unless I'm confusing it for one/both of the Legends games.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Honestly after that weird piece of art in Legacy Collection 2 I fully assume Capcom is doing something. Part of me sort of even wonders if seeing Inafune flop *hard* on MN9 was enough motivation for them to stop shitting on his character (well, basically his character :P). I still say they got suuuuuuuper spiteful when he left.
Based on what we know of Konami, spite seems to the default old school japanese business model. Its not that surprising Capcom shelved everything when he bailed, but given how MN9 turned out maybe it was for the best. We'll never know for sure.
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I'd agree with that. I personally managed to avoid most discussion of it before I played it (I already owned a copy, so why color my first impressions?) and I found it to be fine for the mostr part, and quite fun in a number of places. I especially liked the challenge of the final boss.
Worst part of the game is definitely the mines, though. Oh my god the frame rate drop. And one of the platforming bits took me more times to get right than anything else but the final boss, because I didn't realize that I had to grab a moving platform's edge instead of jumping onto it, and I had a drill chasing me.
That's a colorized re-release of Hitoshi Ariga's manga. I'd been seeing rumors about a new comic from IDW, but I'm going to go ahead and assume that was just wishful thinking for now.
Maybe confusing with Sonic being published by IDW?
https://www.polygon.com/2017/7/21/16013308/sonic-the-hedgehog-comics-idw-2018
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Hitoshi Ariga's manga are nicer looking, but in terms of writing the Archie comics were definitely superior. This point is actually pretty weird to me, as Ariga is so big a Mega Man fan that he drew Mega Man Gigamix in his spare time over a number of years without a guarantee that Capcom would be interested in publishing it, while Ian Flynn (the head writer for Archie’s Mega Man) was initially much less familiar with the franchise but ended up doing a lot more interesting things with its characters and concepts.
In any case they were both far superior to the four issue Dreamwave comic.
Uh.
It's actually a Megaman X roguelite, with daily challenges and online co-op and it fucking rules.
I haven't gotten into co-op or played as the Zero-style character, but it's a lot of fun.
Couldn't be all that hard to pull off creating a story, all the dots were in place to connect but Capcom really didn't give a shit about contiguous story until the X series so they just sat. The framework was there, they would occasionally come up with some potentially really interesting plot elements, but it was only thought up with respect to the given game at the time - they had no further interest in any of it past that particular entry.
The ending to Mega Man 7 for example was probably the most important moment in the entire series that Capcom went absolutely nowhere with with respect to the Robot Masters. It was such a waste.
I'm not really keen on starting here because I hate for my initial specific feedback to overshadow the great bits. But I do think the level design is one of the weaker points. It is still pretty good, and it's not really harmed by the random factor. The chunks that are randomized are pretty large, it's not like Spelunky where each screen is random. I suspect that there are probably 10 or so "chunks" that make up a stage, but I don't know if I'd have really noticed if I hadn't run the same stage back to back and seen a repeated bit that I recognized.
There are just a few chunks where I thought I was going the right way, but I ended up at a powerup and backtracked a bit, not sure where I missed a branch.
Also the whole roguelike stuff pushed me the wrong way. It felt like I was making zero progress towards unlocking anything more permanent from what I could tell.
edit: for reference, I don't have issues with roguelikes/random level generation. Like, Dead Cells is my fucking jam right now. But 20XX doesn't feel like it plays well enough to match something like that. Also they could go a long way with not making every stage built on a bottomless pit baseplate.
editx2: played it about eight months ago when it was still in early access, guess they went live with 1.0 last week. couldn't hurt to try it again.
Still interested in giving 20XX a shot myself, though.
20XX is a tad on the ugly side in my opinion, but I'd love to give it a try.
So. There's that.
Also the last stages are bullshit, and co-op makes it worse. When everything is built over a pit and falling in doesn't kill you but zaps you back to the last solid ground you were on, it's easy to get frustrated because now you're like 30 seconds behind your partner. And there's way too much "pit gauntlet" in those last stages.
So I don't know if I'm going to do that again. A shame, because the co-op is really fun otherwise.
Edit: It really needs the bubble system from the New Super Mario Bros. games.
Replace 70% of bottomless pits with lava that bounces the hero back up with a flame trail, spikes that break after you hit them, water, springs, sludge that slows the hero down, lasers, up drafts, and whatever you can think of 2017.
they're effectively checkpoints
if you fall in a pit, you get warped back to the last solid platform you were on and lose 1 HP (the roguelike aspect of 20XX is HP, if you lose all your HP that's that for the run). many of those levels have sections where you have falling blocks or the infamous disappearing/reappearing blocks all interspaced between laser beam barriers that turn on and off. and then enemies sprinkled in the middle of all that. its incredibly frustrating design; they're obviously chasing the people who can do mega man levels like that blindfolded but the difference is those levels have the same design and enemy placement every time.
If you really want some sort of action roguelike to scratch that itch try Dead Cells.
It also works fine for things like Diablo. Or Minecraft. Or... well, things that just want random variety and aren't punishing.
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Mega Man has a fair amount of combat, but it's not really the point. The enemies are mainly there to make the level even more dangerous. So to me, randomly generating the most important part of the game feels like completely missing the point.
Co-op Dead Cells would be incredible.
Oh god, yes please. Honestly, Harmony of Despair on Steam wouldn't be bad either? Or something along those lines.
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On the flip side of the coin, I'm really trying hard to like Azure Striker Gunvolt, but there are a few things blocking me from really liking it.
1) I can't give a tin shit about the characters
2) The primary mechanic fills the screen with so much bullshit I can't tell what bosses are doing except for the most telegraphed moves
3) The stages are complete non-events
4) The crafting/gear/skills system seems wholly superfluous
I appreciate the need to differentiate it from Rockman, and I do think that playing as Copen in ASG2 works loads better than MN09's dash mechanic. I just think the Flashfield attack falls flat. It removes the "jump-and-shootman" element, while at the same time making bosses harder than they ought to be.
we're proud to announce we're re-releasing Street Fighter x Mega Man, a product we didn't make and merely latched on to
also here are some new coasters, or something
This plot was bonkers, but the way Ultron-Sigma got taken out made me pretty happy!
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PM Me if you add me!
Man, I'd be willing to try it. I missed out on Tron Bonne's game but word of mouth is pretty good for it.
It's on PSN now, if that works for you.
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Like Mega Man Legends? Then check out my story, Legends of the Halcyon Era - An Adventure in the World of Mega Man Legends on TMMN and AO3!
Based on what we know of Konami, spite seems to the default old school japanese business model. Its not that surprising Capcom shelved everything when he bailed, but given how MN9 turned out maybe it was for the best. We'll never know for sure.