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[Game of Thrones] Happy International Picnic Day

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    Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Did we read different books or do we have a different definition of detail

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    RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    Did we read different books or do we have a different definition of detail

    I'm not sure @Dongs Galore, maybe we're just focused on different things.

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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Now I find myself interested in the books

    The one problem that puts me off is the thought of the interminable sex scenes now becoming written word in addition to what I hear of all the food porn-y descriptions

    That doesn't sound like stuff I want to read much

    There is a lot more sex in the show than in the books.

    The food porn is absolutely there but I honestly don't get why people get angry about it.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    YaYaYaYa Decent. Registered User regular
    I forget, has anyone said words are wind in the show yet

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    HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Because you can only read about so many greasy capons getting demolished before it's kind of tiresome

    Broke as fuck and the bills past due, all amounts assist and are kindly received.

    https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
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    masterofmetroidmasterofmetroid Have you ever looked at a world and seen it as a kind of challenge?Registered User regular
    Do people not like hearing about Capons and Lamprey pie and Lemon cakes?

    I always found it strangely endearing, if unwelcome if i hadn't eaten in a while.

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    BroloBrolo Broseidon Lord of the BroceanRegistered User regular
    I can just auto-skim all of that stuff. It's not really anything that bothers me.

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    KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    The great thing about books is you can just skip the parts you aren't interested in reading

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    1. Never open a book with weather.
    2. Avoid prologues.
    3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
    4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said”…he admonished gravely.
    5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
    6. Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."
    7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
    8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
    9. Don't go into great detail describing places and things.
    10. Try to leave out the parts that readers tend to skip.

    i take it george "railroad" martin is not a fan of elmore leonard's rules for writing

    Mr. G on
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    RenzoRenzo Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    The great thing about books is you can just skip the parts you aren't interested in reading

    Or re-read the parts about Tyrion's knob.

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    YaYaYaYa Decent. Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    1. Never open a book with weather.
    2. Avoid prologues.
    3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
    4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said”…he admonished gravely.
    5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
    6. Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."
    7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
    8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
    9. Don't go into great detail describing places and things.
    10. Try to leave out the parts that readers tend to skip.

    i take it george "railroad" martin is not a fan of elmore leonard's rules for writing

    I am never not going to call him george railroad martin now

    thank you for this

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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    also literally the single greatest moment in the entire goddamn series involves Lord Manderly eating a pie.

    I am all in on martin's food writing

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    1. Never open a book with weather.
    2. Avoid prologues.
    3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
    4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said”…he admonished gravely.
    5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
    6. Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."
    7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
    8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
    9. Don't go into great detail describing places and things.
    10. Try to leave out the parts that readers tend to skip.

    i take it george "railroad" martin is not a fan of elmore leonard's rules for writing

    I love Elmore Leonard but any "rules of writing" are kind of a bullshit imo. I don't want every book or author to read the same.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Martin's food writing is sexy. I never even considered having sex with a capon until I read these books.

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Never use a verb other than said to carry dialogue? "I only use ejaculated for speech" he ejaculated.

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    Balefuego wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    1. Never open a book with weather.
    2. Avoid prologues.
    3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
    4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said”…he admonished gravely.
    5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
    6. Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."
    7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
    8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
    9. Don't go into great detail describing places and things.
    10. Try to leave out the parts that readers tend to skip.

    i take it george "railroad" martin is not a fan of elmore leonard's rules for writing

    I love Elmore Leonard but any "rules of writing" are kind of a bullshit imo. I don't want every book or author to read the same.

    There's a longer version where he explains each individual one
    1. Never open a book with weather.
    If it's only to create atmosphere, and not a character's reaction to the weather, you don't want to go on too long. The reader is apt to leaf ahead looking for people. There are exceptions. If you happen to be Barry Lopez, who has more ways to describe ice and snow than an Eskimo, you can do all the weather reporting you want.

    2. Avoid prologues.
    They can be annoying, especially a prologue following an introduction that comes after a foreword. But these are ordinarily found in nonfiction. A prologue in a novel is backstory, and you can drop it in anywhere you want. There is a prologue in John Steinbeck's "Sweet Thursday," but it's O.K. because a character in the book makes the point of what my rules are all about. He says: "I like a lot of talk in a book and I don't like to have nobody tell me what the guy that's talking looks like. I want to figure out what he looks like from the way he talks. . . . figure out what the guy's thinking from what he says. I like some description but not too much of that. . . . Sometimes I want a book to break loose with a bunch of hooptedoodle. . . . Spin up some pretty words maybe or sing a little song with language. That's nice. But I wish it was set aside so I don't have to read it. I don't want hooptedoodle to get mixed up with the story."

    3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
    The line of dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his nose in. But said is far less intrusive than grumbled, gasped, cautioned, lied. I once noticed Mary McCarthy ending a line of dialogue with "she asseverated," and had to stop reading to get the dictionary.

    4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said" . . .
    . . . he admonished gravely. To use an adverb this way (or almost any way) is a mortal sin. The writer is now exposing himself in earnest, using a word that distracts and can interrupt the rhythm of the exchange. I have a character in one of my books tell how she used to write historical romances "full of rape and adverbs."

    5. Keep your exclamation points under control.
    You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose. If you have the knack of playing with exclaimers the way Tom Wolfe does, you can throw them in by the handful.

    6. Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."
    This rule doesn't require an explanation. I have noticed that writers who use "suddenly" tend to exercise less control in the application of exclamation points.

    7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
    Once you start spelling words in dialogue phonetically and loading the page with apostrophes, you won't be able to stop. Notice the way Annie Proulx captures the flavor of Wyoming voices in her book of short stories "Close Range."

    8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
    Which Steinbeck covered. In Ernest Hemingway's "Hills Like White Elephants" what do the "American and the girl with him" look like? "She had taken off her hat and put it on the table." That's the only reference to a physical description in the story, and yet we see the couple and know them by their tones of voice, with not one adverb in sight.

    9. Don't go into great detail describing places and things.
    Unless you're Margaret Atwood and can paint scenes with language or write landscapes in the style of Jim Harrison. But even if you're good at it, you don't want descriptions that bring the action, the flow of the story, to a standstill.

    And finally:

    10. Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip.
    A rule that came to mind in 1983. Think of what you skip reading a novel: thick paragraphs of prose you can see have too many words in them. What the writer is doing, he's writing, perpetrating hooptedoodle, perhaps taking another shot at the weather, or has gone into the character's head, and the reader either knows what the guy's thinking or doesn't care. I'll bet you don't skip dialogue.

    My most important rule is one that sums up the 10.

    If it sounds like writing, I rewrite it.

    I believe these were published as his personal rules for himself, not a guideline he expects all authors to follow

    He even cites in his explanations authors who do each of these things well

    6F32U1X.png
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    Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Renzo wrote: »
    Did we read different books or do we have a different definition of detail

    I'm not sure @Dongs Galore, maybe we're just focused on different things.

    ...damn

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    Yeah I'm pretty sure he broke all those rules except #6 (though there's probably a suddenly in there but not as in "Suddenly!"), and there's probably more than an exclamation mark per hundred thousand words, but mostly in dialogue I guess.

    The first book literally starts with a prologue that starts with describing how cold it is.

    sig.gif
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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    YaYa wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    1. Never open a book with weather.
    2. Avoid prologues.
    3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
    4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said”…he admonished gravely.
    5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
    6. Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."
    7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
    8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
    9. Don't go into great detail describing places and things.
    10. Try to leave out the parts that readers tend to skip.

    i take it george "railroad" martin is not a fan of elmore leonard's rules for writing

    I am never not going to call him george railroad martin now

    thank you for this

    Just imagine him wearing a conductor's cap and whenever he kills a character he blows a steam whistle he installed in his office and goes "choo-choo!"

    6F32U1X.png
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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    YaYa wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    1. Never open a book with weather.
    2. Avoid prologues.
    3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
    4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said”…he admonished gravely.
    5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
    6. Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."
    7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
    8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
    9. Don't go into great detail describing places and things.
    10. Try to leave out the parts that readers tend to skip.

    i take it george "railroad" martin is not a fan of elmore leonard's rules for writing

    I am never not going to call him george railroad martin now

    thank you for this

    Just imagine him wearing a conductor's cap

    wow

    I

    I can't

    sig.gif
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    InxInx Registered User regular
    I personally like calling him George Rowdy Roddy Martin.

    I'm here to kill characters and eat capons.

    And I'm all out of capons (he's never out of capons).

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    SimBenSimBen Hodor? Hodor Hodor.Registered User regular
    R.R. is just an honorary middle name they give to the King of Fantasy Authors.

    sig.gif
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    Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    SimBen wrote: »
    Yeah I'm pretty sure he broke all those rules except #6 (though there's probably a suddenly in there but not as in "Suddenly!"), and there's probably more than an exclamation mark per hundred thousand words, but mostly in dialogue I guess.

    The first book literally starts with a prologue that starts with describing how cold it is.

    in fairness, the only real rule about any kind of art is that good art can break any rule it wants

    Dongs Galore on
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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    It wasn't until it was too late that I remembered he actually does wear a conductor's cap like, all the time

    6F32U1X.png
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    chromdomchromdom Who? Where?Registered User regular
    Isn't that a Greek fishing hat?

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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Balefuego wrote: »
    Mr. G wrote: »
    1. Never open a book with weather.
    2. Avoid prologues.
    3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
    4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said”…he admonished gravely.
    5. Keep your exclamation points under control. You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose.
    6. Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."
    7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
    8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
    9. Don't go into great detail describing places and things.
    10. Try to leave out the parts that readers tend to skip.

    i take it george "railroad" martin is not a fan of elmore leonard's rules for writing

    I love Elmore Leonard but any "rules of writing" are kind of a bullshit imo. I don't want every book or author to read the same.

    There's a longer version where he explains each individual one
    1. Never open a book with weather.
    If it's only to create atmosphere, and not a character's reaction to the weather, you don't want to go on too long. The reader is apt to leaf ahead looking for people. There are exceptions. If you happen to be Barry Lopez, who has more ways to describe ice and snow than an Eskimo, you can do all the weather reporting you want.

    2. Avoid prologues.
    They can be annoying, especially a prologue following an introduction that comes after a foreword. But these are ordinarily found in nonfiction. A prologue in a novel is backstory, and you can drop it in anywhere you want. There is a prologue in John Steinbeck's "Sweet Thursday," but it's O.K. because a character in the book makes the point of what my rules are all about. He says: "I like a lot of talk in a book and I don't like to have nobody tell me what the guy that's talking looks like. I want to figure out what he looks like from the way he talks. . . . figure out what the guy's thinking from what he says. I like some description but not too much of that. . . . Sometimes I want a book to break loose with a bunch of hooptedoodle. . . . Spin up some pretty words maybe or sing a little song with language. That's nice. But I wish it was set aside so I don't have to read it. I don't want hooptedoodle to get mixed up with the story."

    3. Never use a verb other than "said" to carry dialogue.
    The line of dialogue belongs to the character; the verb is the writer sticking his nose in. But said is far less intrusive than grumbled, gasped, cautioned, lied. I once noticed Mary McCarthy ending a line of dialogue with "she asseverated," and had to stop reading to get the dictionary.

    4. Never use an adverb to modify the verb "said" . . .
    . . . he admonished gravely. To use an adverb this way (or almost any way) is a mortal sin. The writer is now exposing himself in earnest, using a word that distracts and can interrupt the rhythm of the exchange. I have a character in one of my books tell how she used to write historical romances "full of rape and adverbs."

    5. Keep your exclamation points under control.
    You are allowed no more than two or three per 100,000 words of prose. If you have the knack of playing with exclaimers the way Tom Wolfe does, you can throw them in by the handful.

    6. Never use the words "suddenly" or "all hell broke loose."
    This rule doesn't require an explanation. I have noticed that writers who use "suddenly" tend to exercise less control in the application of exclamation points.

    7. Use regional dialect, patois, sparingly.
    Once you start spelling words in dialogue phonetically and loading the page with apostrophes, you won't be able to stop. Notice the way Annie Proulx captures the flavor of Wyoming voices in her book of short stories "Close Range."

    8. Avoid detailed descriptions of characters.
    Which Steinbeck covered. In Ernest Hemingway's "Hills Like White Elephants" what do the "American and the girl with him" look like? "She had taken off her hat and put it on the table." That's the only reference to a physical description in the story, and yet we see the couple and know them by their tones of voice, with not one adverb in sight.

    9. Don't go into great detail describing places and things.
    Unless you're Margaret Atwood and can paint scenes with language or write landscapes in the style of Jim Harrison. But even if you're good at it, you don't want descriptions that bring the action, the flow of the story, to a standstill.

    And finally:

    10. Try to leave out the part that readers tend to skip.
    A rule that came to mind in 1983. Think of what you skip reading a novel: thick paragraphs of prose you can see have too many words in them. What the writer is doing, he's writing, perpetrating hooptedoodle, perhaps taking another shot at the weather, or has gone into the character's head, and the reader either knows what the guy's thinking or doesn't care. I'll bet you don't skip dialogue.

    My most important rule is one that sums up the 10.

    If it sounds like writing, I rewrite it.

    I believe these were published as his personal rules for himself, not a guideline he expects all authors to follow

    He even cites in his explanations authors who do each of these things well

    I dig stuff like this. Not because it's particularly useful advice - that depends a lot on who's reading it - but because it offers up a neat insight into what that particular writer considers important. Most of Leonard's advice boils down to "If it ain't dialogue, it can fuck right off," which, coming from Leonard? Yeah, that checks out.

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    SimBen wrote: »
    R.R. is just an honorary middle name they give to the King of Fantasy Authors.

    R.A. R.R. Salvatore

    aka RARR! Salvatore!

    6F32U1X.png
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    PoorochondriacPoorochondriac Ah, man Ah, jeezRegistered User regular
    R.A. Salvatore is less King of Fantasy Authors and more King of Shit You're Faintly Embarrassed By Having Spent So Much Time On In Middle School

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    So Tyrion's role in the second season is basically just to wander around uncovering people's schemes and forcing them to do his bidding if they don't want to be exposed?

    yeah okay i can deal with this

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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I am pretty proud to say I've never read a Drizz't book despite being really big into d&d back in my youth.

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    HallowedFaithHallowedFaith Call me Cloud. Registered User regular
    Just watched this weeks episode with the wife.

    That... was... awesome. Just fucking awesome.

    I'm making video games. DesignBy.Cloud
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    BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    So I started up a game of the Civ V GoT mod as the Lannisters

    barely after the game started the Greyjoys and Starks form an alliance and declare war on me.

    Which is fair, I guess.

    CYpGAPn.png
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    HallowedFaithHallowedFaith Call me Cloud. Registered User regular
    I wish I did not know about that mod. I have too much work to do... no time....


    ...*installs Civ V*

    I'm making video games. DesignBy.Cloud
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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    Oh god I didn't realize I could play that mod now with investment in the characters

    This is...a problem

    6F32U1X.png
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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    Oh god I didn't realize I could play that mod now with investment in the characters

    This is...a problem

    e.g., How are you going to catch up with the series when you spend 24 hours solid on max-length Game of Thrones? :p

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    Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    I'm clearly gonna have to catch up first cause I don't know who half of these Houses/people are

    6F32U1X.png
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    Romanian My EscutcheonRomanian My Escutcheon Two of Forks Registered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    I'm clearly gonna have to catch up first cause I don't know who half of these Houses/people are

    Let me tell you about Howland Reed...

    [IMG][/img]
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    ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning LoserdomRegistered User regular
    Mr. G wrote: »
    I'm clearly gonna have to catch up first cause I don't know who half of these Houses/people are

    Let me tell you about Howland Reed...

    "He's mysterious."

    "Mysterious?"

    "Terribly mysterious."

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    LadaiLadai Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    So about what's coming up this season/future seasons.
    Apparently the new actor playing Tommen is like 15. Curious to see how this may give him a larger role to play in the show's story. edit: I mean, it should make him a lot more pro active, right?

    Ladai on
    ely3ub6du1oe.jpg
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    THESPOOKYTHESPOOKY papa! Registered User regular
    edited April 2014
    THESPOOKY on
    d4753b065e9d63cc25203f06160a1cd1.png
This discussion has been closed.