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Spring [chat]

ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
It's finally spring!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUw4Qh9uFK8

In celebration of the fact that the cherry blossoms have bloomed, and it's no longer snowing like it was during actual spring break.

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Posts

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Or rather, they just don't care about any behavior that they can't somehow link to some fitness maximizing equation

    evo reasoning is wholly driven by marginal reasoning, cuz you peeps don't know what the budget curve looks like, except in very broad senses of energy usage. It might turn out that emerging hunting instincts via simpler instincts that motivate play is cheaper than inscribing the hunting instincts exactly, but you can't really directly tell because your Fitness is even more fuzzy, as a concept, than our Utils. We have gross substitution, you don't.

    Is this a bio vs econ post?

    In evo bio, "fitness" can reduce behavioral phenomena down to a first-order utility: whatever increases the growth rate of a population expressing a certain phenotype. However, properly applied, evo bio cannot explain any behavioral preferences that do not affect population growth. Evo bio can't explain why people like black and red cars more than brown and orange. Some people really wish this weren't the case (evo psych) but I'm happy to tell them that they're silly and wrong.

    In econ, "utility" just comes to rest on, "well, people like it." Econ has revealed preferences and utility curves, but econ also cannot explain any first-order behavioral preferences at all. Econ can tell us that people like Z because it gets them more Y, and they like Y because it gets them more X, but it can't explain why people like X. Econ can't explain why people like black and red cars more than brown and orange.

    But ultimately who has a better handle on these things? The biologist. More specifically, the neuropsychologist. We can identify how certain preferences are biologically related to other preferences that can be modeled in terms of fitness. It's not a stretch to theorize that a preference for sweet foods led beneficially to higher caloric intake in calorie-constrained environments, for instance.

    What does that mean? If the game is "who is better at explaining individual behaviors," Shivahn dunks on you all.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    yay cherry blossoms

    and rain

    lots of rain

    fuck gendered marketing
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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Except scheck. scheck dunks on everybody all the time on all matters

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • CindersCinders Whose sails were black when it was windy Registered User regular
    Shiv is this your first thread/chat?

  • ThomamelasThomamelas Only one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote:
    My advice for anyone having issues with creating a character for roleplaying (as opposed to something you'd be publishing) is to just look at thematically related media and steal a character. It doesn't even have to be a similar genre, anything works if you can stretch it to fit.

    Then just file off the serial numbers, refactor it for the game, maybe put a bit of your own spin on it and go

    Gooey, when playing Demon, just ask yourself "What would Michael Weston do?"

  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    in things I'm watching news: Log Horizon is fun

    NBA Playoffs race is tense

    fuck gendered marketing
  • Nova_CNova_C I have the need The need for speedRegistered User regular
    Elki's last post in the last thread reminded me that Paint The Line stands as Mike and Jerry's finest work.

  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong Putting Nintendo out of business with AI nips Registered User regular
    Forget last night's Game of Thrones snoozefest. The Rick and Morty finale is going to be the television event of the year.

    GET RIGGITY RIGGITY WRECKED SON

    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • bloodyroarxxbloodyroarxx Casa GrandeRegistered User regular
    edited April 2014
    Elldren wrote: »
    in things I'm watching news: Log Horizon is fun

    NBA Playoffs race is tense

    Yaaaaaaaaaaaaay, season 2 is this fall!

    bloodyroarxx on
  • ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular
    Hmmm, what does it mean when you saunter onto someone's profile page on here, and some of their threads are listed as bookmarked?

    Because I'm pretty sure I haven't bookmarked any of the threads I'm seeing as bookmarked.

    Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.

    I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
  • ronyaronya Arrrrrf. the ivory tower's basementRegistered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Or rather, they just don't care about any behavior that they can't somehow link to some fitness maximizing equation

    evo reasoning is wholly driven by marginal reasoning, cuz you peeps don't know what the budget curve looks like, except in very broad senses of energy usage. It might turn out that emerging hunting instincts via simpler instincts that motivate play is cheaper than inscribing the hunting instincts exactly, but you can't really directly tell because your Fitness is even more fuzzy, as a concept, than our Utils. We have gross substitution, you don't.

    Is this a bio vs econ post?

    In evo bio, "fitness" can reduce behavioral phenomena down to a first-order utility: whatever increases the growth rate of a population expressing a certain phenotype. However, properly applied, evo bio cannot explain any behavioral preferences that do not affect population growth. Evo bio can't explain why people like black and red cars more than brown and orange. Some people really wish this weren't the case (evo psych) but I'm happy to tell them that they're silly and wrong.

    In econ, "utility" just comes to rest on, "well, people like it." Econ has revealed preferences and utility curves, but econ also cannot explain any first-order behavioral preferences at all. Econ can tell us that people like Z because it gets them more Y, and they like Y because it gets them more X, but it can't explain why people like X. Econ can't explain why people like black and red cars more than brown and orange.

    But ultimately who has a better handle on these things? The biologist. More specifically, the neuropsychologist. We can identify how certain preferences are biologically related to other preferences that can be modeled in terms of fitness. It's not a stretch to theorize that a preference for sweet foods led beneficially to higher caloric intake in calorie-constrained environments, for instance.

    What does that mean? If the game is "who is better at explaining individual behaviors," Shivahn dunks on you all.

    ah no, I was making a point about @arch's remark that the animal behaviour course admonishes students to only reason marginally

    the reason is, more or less, the underlying core of constrained maximization. This is the base of both contemporary econ and evo reasoning. It does so happen that econ has (approximately speaking) a concrete budget curve (price, quantities, and their total budget are all real quantities) but the nature of the constraint on the pursuit of reproductive success is unclear. Obviously it's constrained, but exactly how is difficult to quantify. Therefore: no reasoning about absolute levels, only marginal changes. You would need a theory of the constraint to motivate a totalist theory of animal behaviour founded on the fitness maximization. In its absence, all you can do is reason about marginal contributions of each behaviour, or possibly even just incremental amounts of each behaviour

    aRkpc.gif
  • CindersCinders Whose sails were black when it was windy Registered User regular
    Chrome Country is such a good song guys. Oh my god.

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  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    @PotatoNinja‌ I think you misunderstand!

    I am *really* excited to play D:tD.

    I just have a weird difficulty with the suspension of disbelief when it comes to naming a character. To me it's something that's difficult to take seriously. I've played V:tM and whatnot, so it's tough to not poke fun at those tropes/stereotypes.

    after all, my most famous d&d character is literally named "Gooey the Barbarian"

    i promise i will be on my best behavior for your game!

    919UOwT.png
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Elldren wrote: »
    yay cherry blossoms

    and rain

    lots of rain

    I love rain

  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    ronya wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    ronya wrote: »
    Arch wrote: »
    Or rather, they just don't care about any behavior that they can't somehow link to some fitness maximizing equation

    evo reasoning is wholly driven by marginal reasoning, cuz you peeps don't know what the budget curve looks like, except in very broad senses of energy usage. It might turn out that emerging hunting instincts via simpler instincts that motivate play is cheaper than inscribing the hunting instincts exactly, but you can't really directly tell because your Fitness is even more fuzzy, as a concept, than our Utils. We have gross substitution, you don't.

    Is this a bio vs econ post?

    In evo bio, "fitness" can reduce behavioral phenomena down to a first-order utility: whatever increases the growth rate of a population expressing a certain phenotype. However, properly applied, evo bio cannot explain any behavioral preferences that do not affect population growth. Evo bio can't explain why people like black and red cars more than brown and orange. Some people really wish this weren't the case (evo psych) but I'm happy to tell them that they're silly and wrong.

    In econ, "utility" just comes to rest on, "well, people like it." Econ has revealed preferences and utility curves, but econ also cannot explain any first-order behavioral preferences at all. Econ can tell us that people like Z because it gets them more Y, and they like Y because it gets them more X, but it can't explain why people like X. Econ can't explain why people like black and red cars more than brown and orange.

    But ultimately who has a better handle on these things? The biologist. More specifically, the neuropsychologist. We can identify how certain preferences are biologically related to other preferences that can be modeled in terms of fitness. It's not a stretch to theorize that a preference for sweet foods led beneficially to higher caloric intake in calorie-constrained environments, for instance.

    What does that mean? If the game is "who is better at explaining individual behaviors," Shivahn dunks on you all.

    ah no, I was making a point about @arch's remark that the animal behaviour course admonishes students to only reason marginally

    the reason is, more or less, the underlying core of constrained maximization. This is the base of both contemporary econ and evo reasoning. It does so happen that econ has (approximately speaking) a concrete budget curve (price, quantities, and their total budget are all real quantities) but the nature of the constraint on the pursuit of reproductive success is unclear. Obviously it's constrained, but exactly how is difficult to quantify. Therefore: no reasoning about absolute levels, only marginal changes. You would need a theory of the constraint to motivate a totalist theory of animal behaviour founded on the fitness maximization. In its absence, all you can do is reason about marginal contributions of each behaviour, or possibly even just incremental amounts of each behaviour

    You are still missing my fundamental point (and the good takeaway from graeber), that these sorts of economic transaction arguments (whatever sort of reasoning you use behind them) are still fundamentally flawed, and really don't explain as much about behavior specifically, and nature generally, as we like to pretend they do

  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Vanguard wrote: »
    Shivahn's post, like this spring, took fucking forever to get here.

    Ninety five percent of the time that elapsed was me finding a website that had pictures to illustrate neuroscientific points.

    But that's not ready so you all get gay marriage instead.

  • NecoNeco In My Restless Dreams Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    yay cherry blossoms

    and rain

    lots of rain

    It's been sunny here lately, though.

  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    I thought crisis on infinite ricks was the last episode.

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot OMG WRIGGLY T O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
    i love morty
    and i hope morty loves me
    i want to put my arms around him
    and feel him inside me

  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong Putting Nintendo out of business with AI nips Registered User regular
    I thought crisis on infinite ricks was the last episode.

    Shit dogg no. R&M got you covered. There's one more broh!

    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    And had to factory reset my phone.
    :(

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
  • ZephiranZephiran Registered User regular
    http://www.siliconera.com/2014/04/14/square-enix-teasing-next-mana-saga-game/
    “There’s much more for us here at the 10th business division,” Ando exclaimed, when Takahashi talked about how 2014 will see a lot going on. “It has been decided that the second mobile division [the division Ando is the producer in] will be helping out with [the SaGa and Mana series].”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKss2uYpih8

    Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.

    I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot OMG WRIGGLY T O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
    TMQZz1i.png

  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    Like, you don't have to tell me that, for example, the handicap hypothesis of Zhavia et al is built on faulty reasoning

    There are a ton of empirical studies that undermine the hypothesis

    The takeaway isn't "evolutionary biologists shouldn't use marginal reasoning", it's "maybe these cost-benefit exchange and constraint models are not really that good"

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    i love morty
    and i hope morty loves me
    i want to put my arms around him
    and feel him inside me

    You have to pepper 60% of your sentences with his name.

  • ArchArch Neat-o, mosquito! Registered User regular
    To be clear- I'm not sure what the solution to this problem is, in evolutionary theory

    But saying "a different kind of economic modeling, the correct kind, would fix it" seems to be missing the forest for the trees

  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    my favorite characters in rick and morty are rick and morty

  • AntinumericAntinumeric Registered User regular
    It it possible to od on salt? I've had so much biltong my tastebuds are fried. I've had 4 pints of water and I'm still thirsty.

    In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my intelligence.
  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    i havent seen rick and morty

    or adventure time

    919UOwT.png
  • P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    i have a phone interview MhJoRG8.gif

    Shameful pursuits and utterly stupid opinions
  • CindersCinders Whose sails were black when it was windy Registered User regular
    Elendil wrote: »
    my favorite characters in rick and morty are rick and morty

    Snowball.

  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Gooey wrote: »
    i havent seen rick and morty

    or adventure time

    Gooey

    Lemme tell you Gooey

    You need to *URP* correct this.

    At least watch the Inception episode, Gooey. It's like the second episode.

  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderator mod
    It it possible to od on salt? I've had so much biltong my tastebuds are fried. I've had 4 pints of water and I'm still thirsty.

    I mean, it can kill you, yes.

    Whether you class it as OD or not is a long philosophical argument, probably.

  • skippydumptruckskippydumptruck Registered User regular
    boston why so hot

    sweating my balls off here

  • Dread Pirate ArbuthnotDread Pirate Arbuthnot OMG WRIGGLY T O X O P L A S M O S I SRegistered User regular
    rick and morty would be good to watch cause it's like what 8 episodes at 20 minutes each? and its p funny

  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    I've never played an MMO, but I was hoping to maybe check out World of Darkness when it came out someday. Now cancelled.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • KrathoonKrathoon Registered User regular
    TMQZz1i.png

    I blame capitalism. :P

  • MortiousMortious The Nightmare Begins Move to New ZealandRegistered User regular
    It it possible to od on salt? I've had so much biltong my tastebuds are fried. I've had 4 pints of water and I'm still thirsty.

    No such thing as too much biltong.

    Move to New Zealand
    It’s not a very important country most of the time
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
This discussion has been closed.