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What do I need for an IT job?
Rivetjockey
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Registered User new member
For the past year I've been looking for an entry level IT job. Of the 34 "entry level" IT jobs I applied for 24 of them wanted someone who already had certifications, 16 wanted people who already had at least 2 years of experience in the field, and 10 were scams.
I'm currently taking classes for my Network+ and Security+ certifications, but each of them suggests that I have 6-8 months experience before taking the cert test.
I'm at a loss at this point. So can anyone tell me what do I need for an IT job?
I'm currently taking classes for my Network+ and Security+ certifications, but each of them suggests that I have 6-8 months experience before taking the cert test.
I'm at a loss at this point. So can anyone tell me what do I need for an IT job?
Rivetjockey on
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Mostly the postings you see are last resort. Most jobs seem to be filled by a friend, or 'oh this other guy I used to work for/with'. Your best bet landing a gig, may be to go to some club meetup thing if possible. I've been going with my buddy to the Ethical Hacking club (of which, I am way out of my depth), but out of the 6 months I've gone, I think 4 had someone asking if there were people that knew someone with x skill or y interest.
My very long term goal is to be a network admin (or sys admin), but that's a bit ambitious to get started with, especially with no certs. So I looked at network and sys admin job listings to find what other experience was listed.
Help/Service Desk showed up the most, so I looked into that. Most companies wouldn't even consider me without an A+ cert or 4 years of "IT" experience.
So, I aimed lower and looked at Tech Support. Only I find more and more listings requiring A+, BS degree, or 3+ years of experience.
I'm working on my bachelors degree in NET, with additional courses for an AS in programming (Java).
I've got a smattering of knowledge in different languages (Python, Java, C++) but I haven't mastered any one yet.
Also, if it's feasible, find some project you can do at home that relates to the field you want to be in. If it's something you can actually show off during an interview, all the better. I'm not sure what that might be in something like networking, but anything is better than nothing. Employers like it when you demonstrate a genuine "passion" for your work, and that you don't spend your downtime twiddling your thumbs.
As mentioned by Radiation, networking (social networking, that is) doesn't hurt either. You can even do it online. Become active on a site where professionals hang out (StackExchange, for example, might be a good one) and answer other users' questions (if you're able). You never know what might come of it. If nothing else, you should pick up a lot of good tips for your work.
I was in your position once and went with a recruiter a friend had recommended. All of the BS dealing with recruiters are true, BUT, it did land me a job that I enjoy; so you could try that out as well.
Starting at a Help Desk level at least gets some experience on your resume. I got hired into a Help Desk role with very little experience with just my A+ and it helped me grow in to a much better tech. The work wasn't fun but I got to learn things I just couldn't learn via a book or class by being Help Desk.
Alternatively look for any internships through the place you're taking classes at. My job tends to have 2-3 interns at any given time that are only there for 3-6 months. It gets them starting experience and it's surprising the progress some of them make during that time period. We do paid internships, but even an unpaid internship could get you a good chunk of experience and have a starting spot on your resume for getting into the field.
Are you in the DC area? I can start asking around.
Not sure how adverse you are to cold calling, but that can help out...like crazy levels. Seriously, even for jobs you aren't qualified for, call the person up. Try and get past the HR people, usually some line about technical questions or something. Then talk to the hiring dude, and ask what they would look for. Explain your situation, and have an interest in trying to tailor your education to line up with your dream gig. I mean, I can't promise something will come of that, but I'm willing to bet that if you called a person and talked to them, they would love to help you out (even if it meant "oh, I know my old buddy Bob was looking for an entry level dude"). Don't go at it with the intent of begging for a job from the person because that puts people off.
Night shift, though...
For reference, I have no IT certs, and only customer service/personal knowledge, and was hired.
I've had to personally mentor quite a few folks who asked me this very question. To give you an idea, I've worked in IT for nearly 13 years, before I transitioned into Information Security. Your problem isn't unique - but - there's going to be some serious work needed to pull yourself out of the career doldrum you're in.
First, you have understand the basic mindset of Human Resources. They're looking for buzzwords that match the requisition the other department opened. They aren't IT folks, and wouldn't know the difference between a A+ or a N+, and it's not their job to know. They just have to screen candidates, and them assemble a pool for interviews for the department they're hunting people for. So, keep that in mind when you look at open job listing. If they say you need a A+ or a N+, then I would think, at a minimum, you need that. You automatically pass the HR test, and odds are good you'll get sent to the interview candidate pool.
Now, once you're in an actual interview, your certs mean dick. The interviewer is going to want to hear your experience past the certifications. If you don't have any professional experience, talk about IT volunteer work, the number of times you've built your own computer, etc., - leverage anything remotely IT into the interview. If it's an entry level position, you may not have to do that particular song and dance - they'll know you don't have much in the way of professional experience. Just have your shit together during the interview, be smart on answers, and have confidence. Synthesize what you've learned studying into answers for questions. It tells them that you did more than read a book and pass a test - you really learned and understood that domain of knowledge.
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Now, certifications. Yeah, you'll need them. Think of a triangle. At one point is "Certifications", the other is "Job experience" and the other is "Education". In the middle of that triangle is a job and money. If you can't represent one of those, you'll need to compensate in the other areas to land work. No degree, and no certifications? Then you need some on-the-job qualifications. If you can't get OTJ - a college degree (relevant to your field) could help get a foot in the door. Don't have either? Certifications are your answer. Having 2 out of 3, or 3 out of 3 is even better.
My point is you need something. It could be a lucky break with a mom and pop computer repair shop. Or, it could be passing some certs. You can't expect to get past HR empty handed. Plain and simple.
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Don't sweat prerequisite field experience to pass certain exams. If you can study and pass, then take the exams. The prerequisites are suggested. At least, for entry level IT certifications. I would start at A+ and N+, before you jump into S+ areas. Having a solid foundation in IT is key to being good at IT Security.
Now it's time to buckle down. Get some current edition study books, schedule some exams, and take tests.
I had a good technical background but zero certifications. My degree was in a completely unrelated field. In 2006 I applied to an entry level IT job with the state government because while they DO look at background employment, certifications, etc., their primary means of sorting out candidates (in most states) is with an IT assessment test that puts you in a band of about 10 people. You want to get into the highest band possible, and then when the state is hiring, they'll pull a list of names and contact those people.
That was my start. I had to take base entry level because I didn't have certifications, but I knew computers. Within six months I got moved up to the headquarter office of where I worked instead of the satellite office and was doing more 2nd and 3rd tier desktop support and some very light server support as well as AD password resets, exchange troubleshooting, and some AS400 administration (user account resets mostly, some production control)
I used the three years I worked at the state to get my work experience, then moved into a desktop support/hybrid SA role and did that for another three years or so.
Now I've been doing this almost 10 years (before 2006 I managed the sales floor of a big box retail chain that had a "geek squad" equivalent which I did a lot of work for) and I'm currently the team lead over a group of 4 windows admins, 1 unix admin, and a desktop support guy, and I'm thirty.
It's totally possible to go my route, but it's taken me almost 10 years to get to the "you're about to hit six figures" level where as people that get certs and go to college for it can do that much, much sooner, but the point is it's possible either way. Don't let the certification requirements throw you off from at least getting your foot in the door. A good personality and knowledge base and good interview skills go a LONG way into getting a job.
I agree with others though that you need SOMETHING. Especially the mom and pop repair shop. every city has a few dozen of those and they'd likely hire someone who is in the process of getting their certs. It's a really good learning experience too.
If you're up for relocation, Nashville TN is one of the top 3 places to get a job in IT in the country as long as you don't mind the healthcare industry.
This is 100% true for desktop support positions and entry level positions.
Also one last tip. Your resume needs as much SEO as your website. Use MS word and don't send a PDF file because most recruiters now, in addition to things like the A+ search, will specifically search technical keywords to find the resumes that have the highest number of what their client is looking for. My resume looks like I'm trying to get a job as the chief Windows Server R&D engineer for Microsoft but it also gets me more call backs than it did two years ago when it was just work experience and an e-mail address.
I remember writing the A+ back in the day, didn't study, just went and wrote. It was two tests of wildly out of date questions and I got 98 and 96%. Hopefully they've cleaned up their act in the past...20 years or so. I'm pretty dubious on a lot of certs, the Microsoft ones, A+ because there's an entire industry dedicated to passing the tests, not actually learning anything. In some cases like the A+, they never expire. I am still A+ certified, but I wrote the test back in the 90s. That's ridiculous. Others like the CCIE and CCNA are a little more valid; mind you I feel like a lot of Cisco's gear is purposefully obtuse to drive up the need for certification. Dell has some tests you can write, they're pretty poor too.
I'm sure lazy HR love them, it's a tick box they can check and cull out a pile of people - who may or may not actually be qualified.
Before you really get into this, why do you want to work in IT? One of the better IT workers I know just recently went back to train as a pipefitter. Myself, if I had to do it all over again I would have gone into the trades for sure. People look down on that sort of thing, but North America's infrastructure is going to shit and someone has to fix it. I know a number of reprobates from high school who wound up as welders and make more than a lot of IT people I know, and their job ends at 5pm.
For what it's worth, my path to my current job was as follows - couple years programming in community college; loathed it. Got enough credits to get a general arts and sciences degree. Worked for a small local mom and pop shop so I could fix PCs, printers, etc and basic networking. (Novell, IPX/SPX, coax cabling - old school!) That and two references got me into a one year program that landed you a MCSE - which is sort of crap, but it also came with a 3 month guaranteed job placement. Wound up getting a permanent job with them as a field tech - fixing CRTs, printers, PCs, etc for banks and such, did a big Y2K project because some shit on a contract took off with 2 days notice. Company tanked, lost a bunch of key contracts and one of the owners was embezzling. Did contract work, wound up going back to a small mom and pop shop, was the service manager - learned windows networking, etc. Got a job with a local consultant - goldmine, learned more here than all previous work. Active Directory, Exchange, and so on. We did work for my current employer - I built the network here from the ground up. When they wound up firing the admin assistant they had made their IT person (because former HR person was a fucking dumbass) I swooped in. The other thing that played heavily in my favor is that clients looooooved me. I didn't try to shaft people, I was patient and calm when things went wrong. I've seen some people in IT who went nowhere because they were either socially retarded, assholes or general dicks.
Like I said tho, I could have gotten my welding ticket after high school and likely been better off.
Looked it up, anything previous to 2011 A+ is lifetime. Woo, I'm still certified....on uh, dot matrix printers and DOS 6.22!
Hurdle 1: Agency.
Typically an IT job goes out to an agency, who throw adds onto every job board they can. They know nothing about IT. If your resume doesn't match what they have been told to look for, you are out. If yours isn't the top five (top ten for higher posts) you are out. So passing this hurdle is easy if you want to take the time on it. Write your resume so it hits the key points. They want "Identity and Access Management" have that phrase on there. "Active Directory" and "AD" are the same to you and me, but to them they are two things. Have both. A good cheat is to have "Active Directory (AD)" on there every time.
My additional step here is to call them once you have sent over your resume. Sent in the morning? Call after lunch, 2:30 or so. That way they are likely to have seen it recently or be top of the Inbox. Have the ad in front of you in one window, and your resume in the other. Start by asking if they got your resume. Usually you get "Yes, I was just looking at it" with furious clicking in the back as they try and find it. Now talk about the job, and which parts you can handle. Lie if you want, but you are really wasting your time because you will stumble later on. Just be honest and make them understand that you should be the one they put at the top of the pile. When they tell you this, you are done. Now do the same for your other applications. (You have other applications going, right? 10 a day is the minimum. 50 is better.)
Hurdle 2: HR
This one might be bypassed if the company is small enough, but be prepared for it. HR don't understand IT. They have a lot of things to do, and they will do this job in the easiest way they know how: keyword search. Remember when I talked about rewriting your resume? Here's why. The more times you hit the keywords, the better you rank. So every instance of Active Directory needs to have AD, and vice versa. Every job should have as many keywords as you can apply to it. Rank high in the keyword search and you are halfway there.
Once they whittle the list down (top 5 from multiple agencies is still a big pile) they are now going to eyeball your resume. Here you need to make it simple. Bullet points of your accomplishments and skills. Here's a sample from mine.
Two things to note: See the point where I say I saved the company money? You need bullet points that say how you are useful you are to them. If you can quantify them, so much better. They are going to be paying you money. Where is the return? You know that I didn't get paid that £608k as a bonus. But every client since has seen that number and jumped at the chance to have me do the same. That accomplishment has kept me working long after that job ended.
The other thing to note: None of the bullet points talk about things like "Learned PowerShell". They don't like seeing that, because that is time you spend learning, not working. Yes, it might be relevant to the job, but it is better phrased as "Used PowerShell to automate daily tasks, saving x in time/money/resources."
Hurdle 3: Technical Interview
Finally, the IT department. They are going to quiz you on your knowledge. They are going to test your skills. But whilst you can't do anything about this other than learn and know things, you can have pocket responses for things you don't know. If I ask a candidate something and they don't know the answer, their next response can still get them the job, or it can wipe their chances out completely.
"I don't know." Perfectly acceptable, and better than bullshitting your way through a stumbling, rambled sentence for a minute of my life I never get back. But the best response is to ask questions. Asking for more information about a problem, or if the problem occurs regularly or intermittently, or even what the log files are showing are great. If I throw a problem at you, getting the "right" answer isn't as good as showcasing your problem solving skills. Whilst most people will usually ask the 5 FSMO Roles as an opener, really that is just an ice-breaker and idiot filter.
Refer back to places you worked previously and how you solved similar problems, if you can't talk about the exact one. I don't care if you don't know what causes Error 0x800f0906, but talk to me about how you had an error you hadn't encountered before, how you troubleshot it and then prevented future occurrences (bonus if you documented it for others).
Bonus points: Have wiki pages open on the topics that are going to come up. For MS roles, TechNet is golden. But Wikipedia is good for port numbers and such.
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Night and day between when I was trying to find work as a SysAdmin/Network Engineer, and InfoSec is mostly unaffected by a bad economy as well.
I would say this varies widely on the market you live in. However, near major metropolitan areas, InfoSec is a smart area to specialize in. However, I want to emphasize that having a solid IT foundation, with experience and certifications, will put you into the more desirable InfoSec category. Having a Security+ with no discernible experience in either IT or IA is not your path to riches and an instant job.
However, once you're on the path to gathering some IT qualifications, you elect to branch into IA, it's a solid career move. It's my area of employment, and it's been good to me so far.
I keep various different versions of my CV. One for each major technology, and a "master" version with every bullet point. When I need to make a new version I just grab the relevant bits from the master and name it up. The other thing is that when I was contracting I would look at locations all over Europe, not just within Manchester (my home town). Being willing to travel and/or relocate is helpful.
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There are a lot of community colleges and trade schools that will get you an Associates degree, and offer certifications, just be wary of the loans.