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[EUIV] Reducing the Reduced reduction in cost of reducing war exhaustion for some NI's

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    AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    I had a colition fire and the Shogun want me dead in the same war cause I went tonfst west to fast

    I think 1495 is the earliest you can form Japan and it's with a lot of debt juggling and I'm at 25 inflation, this is like the third run and I can never get the Shogun in one war, which means you take like -16 we and -6 stab for reasons

    Huh, maybe they fixed it up then? That's good, I might give it another try.

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Discovered that subjugation CB doesn't only let you vassalize targets regardless of size, but you also get the same peace option for all of your target's allies. So you could probably abuse that in a major way.

    I played some Dai Viet and Ming canceled the tributary relationship relatively early - but they keep the Trust you built up from sending tribute, so they'll immediately want to ally you. Dai Viet is fairly easy with the new mission tree, you could easily set up a World Conquest or even a Mahayana One Faith (on account of the Buddhist monuments being a bit OP).

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    When playing in America I always get exploration and explore the Mediterranean so I can go shopping for an OPM to no CB vassalize and get within ally range of the Ottomans

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Oh wow wow wow Victoria 3

    I really hope it's more Vicky 2 and less HoI4

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    SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    It's happening dot gif

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
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    chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    In the Victoria 3 subreddit (and cross posted to the official forums) is a pretty detailed look at the state of the game as of whenever the reporter was allowed to fiddle around with things. From what I've read in that article, it is sounding pretty solid so far. Not only do they model pops, but also dependents, and there are something like 50 trade goods (from resources to finished products) and the sphere system is replaced with something else (which is fine because the sphere system was kind of trash). I'm definitely liking what I'm seeing so far, and there has been no mention of focus trees or mission trees that I have seen.

    -edit- Ooh interesting, it looks like Westernization is not really a thing anymore. You have Recognized countries (Civilized in Vicky 2), Unrecognized countries (previously Uncivilized) and Decentralized (areas without any nations in Vicky 2). There is no explicit penalty for being Unrecognized, but your internal situation likely makes it harder to keep up with Recognized countries. Unrecognized can upgrade to Recognized somehow (one example given was Japan winning the Russo-Japanese War). Decentralized can be colonized directly, but there will be tension and potential uprisings. There are Colonial States that are different from Unincorporated States, and are subject to colonial policies and have special mechanics. Not entirely sure what Unincorporated States are supposed to be exactly, and no word on if you can change a state from colonial to unincorporated to incorporated. The political maneuvering prior to war is representing by something similar to the crisis system, and combat is unfinished which I find interesting because it likely means they are not using an existing combat system, which feels appropriate considering the massive changes to warfare that happened in this era.

    chrisnl on
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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    Are unincorporated states their own countries? If so, I would guess they reflect states like the Grand Duchy of Finland

    Otherwise, I would guess they correspond to territories like the US had/still has, this is represented in Vicky 2 to some extent

    Platy on
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    chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    It sounds like they are a type of internal organization category. I know in Vicky 2 you have to have an area fully stated to build factories there, but in Vicky 3 they seem to be drawing a distinction between something like the Oklahoma territory and Hong Kong. My guess is Unincorporated States are areas that you can eventually fully bring into your country, like Oklahoma, as opposed to Colonies which are areas that cannot be fully brought into the country like Hong Kong or Algeria. At a guess maybe Colonies that you have cores on can become Unincorporated States and eventually Incorporated States, while areas that you do not have cores on can only be Colonies. This raises the question of how places like Canada and India are treated in this system. And I could be completely wrong!

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    ZibblsnrtZibblsnrt Registered User, Moderator mod
    BRB, dancing on the grave of the sphere system while also setting it on fire despite the risks to my personal safety because sphere management was that irritating in Vic2. So much nonstop micromanagement...

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    chrisnlchrisnl Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    Zibblsnrt wrote: »
    BRB, dancing on the grave of the sphere system while also setting it on fire despite the risks to my personal safety because sphere management was that irritating in Vic2. So much nonstop micromanagement...

    Hopefully the replacement system is better than the sphere system in Vicky 2, here's the relevant bit from the review article I mentioned previously.

    "Spheres have been replaced with Markets. There are many local markets instead of a single world market. Expanding your market is going to be a new playstyle aside from conquest - "painting the map economically". You can bring other countries into your market diplomatically or through war. Trade between markets is done by setting up one-way Import and Export trade deals for specific goods, of which you can only have a limited number at a time per market, based on a number of factors."

    -edit- I'm actually super excited about the fact that the US Civil War isn't scripted, but grows out of the systems of the game naturally. Like that could go very wrong in hilarious ways, but if they get it right that is amazing.

    chrisnl on
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    AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    The new favours system is about as unbalanced as centralising. I'm playing Bohemia, got Ottomans as an ally early, and I've just been building up favours with them to use them as a battering ram. In the first 40 years I used them to attack Hungary, then Poland, then Austria, then Hungary + France, then Brandenburg + Austria, and every war I've tried to sit out and let the Ottomans do the heavy lifting. I've also borrowed manpower and ducats a few times. Even better, they've been so busy fighting my wars they haven't fought many of their own, so when I eventually turn on them they won't be too strong.

    Unfortunately, trust doesn't seem to go up automatically any more, even though the tooltip says it does.

    Also unfortunately, you can't concentrate dev from your PU subjects, only from vassals. I don't understand why that would be the case (I do understand why you can't concentrate from your tributaries though) and it's hurt my plans for this Bohemia run.

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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    been playing some vicky 2 (modded with HFM) since the news dropped
    E9B0423C1F06C5500D113A335C64160B399C9FF4
    Yes I did it starting as the City of Krakow. Yes it was so hard. I eventually got Germany on my side but at one point I had to beat Russia on my own. Trying to reform the commonwealth from this point is also going to be so hard.

    Also yes the sphere system is terrrrrible. Not the basic concept, but its implementation.

    Gundi on
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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    Bonus: Texas, actual real size. (as according to Texans)
    2B7F691C26E907A6A4EC75B7E1AF4AF774584936
    607EA8609D55EC6C18D7234920F5EBC5931071E7
    *Laughs in million pop oil provinces* Alternatively, "I'm not in Kansas anymore, we're all in Kansas now."

    Gundi on
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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    That's an eye-poppingly huge % of soldiers

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    SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    I wonder what a society where one out of six adults is a trained killer would be like

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    edited May 2021
    and the crazy thing is i have not promoted soldier growth the entire game.

    when your pops are that concentrated you just get insane soldier numbers naturally. in that game i could raise over two hundred regiments from just Austin. That's half a million professional soldiers living in one city.

    i remember when i did a hawaii game i had a similar thing happen. I think it's because the pop numbers get so high that literally all possible laborer and farmer jobs get filled so unless you massively subsidize industry (i haven't been) pops are going to start switching to soldier and officer jobs jobs.

    Gundi on
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    SLyMSLyM Registered User regular
    I think it also might have something to do with being a popular migration target, maybe soldier pops are more likely to emigrate? I have a distinct memory of being able to field a bunch of regiments in a new zealand game I played despite never paying any of my soldiers a wage.

    My friend is working on a roguelike game you can play if you want to. (It has free demo)
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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    are you sure were not in fact arming kiwis?

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    AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    I just got The Bohemians (as Bohemia, own Dublin) and it was more interesting than most As X Own Y achievements. As Bohemia you start landlocked, and your best expansion options are PUs, which don't help build your navy. The easiest way to get a foothold in England is to no-CB an Irish minor, but without a navy you can't take them, and by the time I had a navy they were all swallowed up by Britain.

    I spent the first 50 years getting my PUs, then the middle part of the game expanding into the Balkans (turning the Balkans and Turkey into trade companies), fighting Venice and the Ottomans for ports, then turned North and fought Hamburg/Lubeck/etc for ports until I had a big enough navy to fight Denmark. I'd just finished conquering them and started to work West when I saw England was at war with France and Spain, so I decided to no-CB them and finish it off.

    I was annoyed you can't concentrate dev from PUs, but I still managed to build Prague up to 250ish dev by 1600, mostly by pillaging.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    I still don't understand how one "gets" PUs, like on purpose. Other than special event ones (i.e. chance at Burgundy as France, Iberian Wedding etc..), I've only a handful of times (across all of my games combined) lucked into a state where i have a marriage with them, their monarch dies childless, and i have highest prestige at that point.

    I figure I'm missing something dumb.

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    AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    I still don't understand how one "gets" PUs, like on purpose. Other than special event ones (i.e. chance at Burgundy as France, Iberian Wedding etc..), I've only a handful of times (across all of my games combined) lucked into a state where i have a marriage with them, their monarch dies childless, and i have highest prestige at that point.

    I figure I'm missing something dumb.

    This is a really thorough guide to PUs:
    https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/guide-to-royal-marriages-personal-unions-and-claim-throne.788829/

    Bohemia has a few PU missions, which is why I had so many on my Bohemia run. Same goes for Austria, and some other European countries.

    Outside of missions, there are two ways to get PUs. The first is allying for 100s of years and hoping eventually you'll get them. If you have a few allies you'll probably get one a game. The other way is to watch the notification for countries with disputed succession. If you see someone old on that list, send them a marriage and hope. Even if you don't get a free PU from it, you might get a member of your dynasty on their throne, and usually there will be a window afterwards where they don't have an heir yet, and you can declare war to enforce a PU. if you're vigilantly checking the notification, you can get a couple of PUs each game this way.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Ok so the trick i think i was missing was the last minute marriage offer to the geezer. Makes sense.

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    They added, among other things, a lot of events which give heirless monarchs heirs since Atwix first wrote that guide, so "natural" PUs don't happen as often anymore

    But if you're playing on Normal difficulty in Leviathan, you can presently really abuse the Request Heir diplomatic interaction (I hope that's what it's called)

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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    if you want to not have fun in victoria, try playing liberia

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    How do you break through the HRE wall? The whole "attacking literally any if them invoked the whole swarm"? I mean i guess that's the point of it, but I'm not sure what to do about it as France when a half my missions want land that's in there.

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    How do you break through the HRE wall? The whole "attacking literally any if them invoked the whole swarm"? I mean i guess that's the point of it, but I'm not sure what to do about it as France when a half my missions want land that's in there.

    If you have no designs on the throne, better to ally as many electors as you can and attack the rest/the Emperor to dismantle the empire.

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    Kane Red RobeKane Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    How do you break through the HRE wall? The whole "attacking literally any if them invoked the whole swarm"? I mean i guess that's the point of it, but I'm not sure what to do about it as France when a half my missions want land that's in there.

    The Emperor has a lot of threats to deal with, gang up on him. Either formally with alliances or just by waiting until he gets pulled into a war with one of the other threats.

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Savoy and Milan should eventually leave the Empire - they might rejoin, I unfortunately don't know how likely this is in the current patch

    You should be able to contest Burgundy if the disaster fires

    Otherwise, long-term, your options are to become Emperor yourself or to dismantle it (this can sometimes be fairly simple, you ally all electors which aren't in an alliance with the Emperor and then attack, calling them in)

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Austria was emperor for a long time, but now it's Brandenburg. I actually ended up allying Branderburg when i saw they had Austria rivaled. Austria has been fucking with me all game, lately they've been spying just to tank my diplo rep and cause riots.
    I'm allied to:
    - Scotland (ancient alliance, together we left England with 2 provinces in England and 3 in Ireland, said alas not before they resettled off Kongo (which, hilariously, guarantees them now).
    - Castille (maxed out at 99 them liking me overall, because they want my colonies by New Orleans for their Florida. They never did have the Iberian Wedding so at some point i took coastal Aragon just past Barcelona + Corsica).
    - Hungary (massive, likes me 200, and shares my dynasty)
    - Brandenberg, see above
    - Perugia (which i grabbed as a vassal fire stone reason i can't remember and it's really screwing with me currently because some random war i joined in as ally, probably with Hungary, they captured Rome from Papal Republic. And now i lose 6 papal influence a month and i can't figure out how to return the province without releasing vassal and letting it be just their problem.)

    Moscovvy is massive, but I've yet to interact with them in and meaningful capacity. Ming is still big somehow but i can't even see them in the map.

    Portugal has colonized most of south America, Mexico, all of west coast, all of Caribbean, and some Africa. One of it's colonies is trying to independence and Castille is helping it so Castille and Portugal are going at it on Iberia.

    At some point a giant coalition formed against me by some random native American province around Toronto that pulled in most of HRE and Italy, so that sucked up decades trying to calm down.

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    AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    I'm playing France too! Going for the Big Blue Blob achievement, and I have never played a game like this before. My diplomats aren't getting a minute to rest, they're improving relations with my vassals, my allies, keeping others out of coalitions, integrating vassals, and fabricating claims 24/7. If I had 6 diplomats they'd always be busy and it wouldn't be enough. Which sounds like a good reason to get diplomacy ideas except I'm behind in diplo tech and getting 0 each month because I'm integrating vassals.

    Not sure if I'll make it, I'm at 48 provinces in 1459. If I get the Burgundian Inheritance and annex my vassals I'll be at 82. So maybe it's closer than I thought.

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    AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    So I declared war on Denmark, to take some Norwegian provinces, and about 2 months in the duke of Austria dies, falls under a PU with Aragon, and I get a chance to contest it. OK, sure, why not? But now I'm in two wars, outnumbered, stretched across half of Europe, and my allies won't join because I'm in two wars. Bugger, right? I decide to blitz Denmark, get that war over, so I can focus on Aragon + Austria... and then my king dies and I get the Political Marriage event and now Castile's my junior partner.

    The balance of power in Europe has gone crazy in just one year. I'm still trying to get the Big Blue Blob, these PUs won't help as much as vassals would, but I'm not really complaining.

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    AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    FC0EB91DB557047CAFBED754694271C4E64E2DD1

    Big Blue Blob 1491 with no Burgundy!

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    GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    that's not norway, that's noroui

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited June 2021
    Well things just got interesting. The ruler of Russia (Which is HUGE) just died without an heir and willed everything to a one province county in northern Anatolia, and for some reason it asked me if i want to contest for some reason. I'm playing France, and have had Russia rivaled for much of the game to fill up a rival slot, but have pretty much never interacted with them. When it asked me, i was in the middle of a war where i was helping my ally Hungary in a crusade vs Ottomans, and because of that i had a rather large army about two provinces away in Anatolia. I wrapped up my war against native Americans, and hit "contest", and sent that Army to that one province. Like a second layer Ottomans surrender and Hungary takes most of the remaining Ottoman land in Europe, including Constantinople.

    On their side: the one province, giant Russia, 2 province Riga, and like 5 province Russian vassal in the Caucasus.
    On my side: France (holding all of France, most of northern Italy, all but one in Ireland, about half of England, Sardinia and Sicily, Rome and Perugia), my North American Colonies holding most of the continent except for West side, my vassal Aragon, Brandenburg, a huge Hungary (they swallowed up Poland/Lithiania, the Balkans, Romania, and central Italy).

    I think i come out of this ahead, but I'm not sure what I'm actually supposed to do for inheritance war. Does taking over that one province in North Anatolia won this thing for me? Because that would be crackerjack nuts.

    Smrtnik on
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    LuianeLuiane Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Well things just got interesting. The ruler of Russia (Which is HUGE) just died without an heir and willed everything to a one province county in northern Anatolia, and for some reason it asked me if i want to contest for some reason. I'm playing France, and have had Russia rivaled for much of the game to fill up a rival slot, but have pretty much never interacted with them. When it asked me, i was in the middle of a war where i was helping my ally Hungary in a crusade vs Ottomans, and because of that i had a rather large army about two provinces away in Anatolia. I wrapped up my war against native Americans, and hit "contest", and sent that Army to that one province. Like a second layer Ottomans surrender and Hungary takes most of the remaining Ottoman land in Europe, including Constantinople.

    On their side: the one province, giant Russia, 2 province Riga, and like 5 province Russian vassal in the Caucasus.
    On my side: France (holding all of France, most of northern Italy, all but one in Ireland, about half of England, Sardinia and Sicily, Rome and Perugia), my North American Colonies holding most of the continent except for West side, my vassal Aragon, Brandenburg, a huge Hungary (they swallowed up Poland/Lithiania, the Balkans, Romania, and central Italy).

    I think i come out of this ahead, but I'm not sure what I'm actually supposed to do for inheritance war. Does taking over that one province in North Anatolia won this thing for me? Because that would be crackerjack nuts.

    So it's an One province minor holding the PU? I think occupying it won't immediately grant you 100% warscore, but you might get 100% after 5 years of the war have passed. There used to be a mechanic where after some time, which I think is 5 years, if you fully occupy the primary target of the war you get 100%, even if the allies aren't fully occupied.

    Of course, if they have occupation of any provinces this won't trigger.

    It seems likely that Russia won't be loyal to such a small country, so could probably be a fairly cheap Russia Pu get!

    Steam id: Varys
    LoL EU West nickname: Irridan
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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Luiane wrote: »
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Well things just got interesting. The ruler of Russia (Which is HUGE) just died without an heir and willed everything to a one province county in northern Anatolia, and for some reason it asked me if i want to contest for some reason. I'm playing France, and have had Russia rivaled for much of the game to fill up a rival slot, but have pretty much never interacted with them. When it asked me, i was in the middle of a war where i was helping my ally Hungary in a crusade vs Ottomans, and because of that i had a rather large army about two provinces away in Anatolia. I wrapped up my war against native Americans, and hit "contest", and sent that Army to that one province. Like a second layer Ottomans surrender and Hungary takes most of the remaining Ottoman land in Europe, including Constantinople.

    On their side: the one province, giant Russia, 2 province Riga, and like 5 province Russian vassal in the Caucasus.
    On my side: France (holding all of France, most of northern Italy, all but one in Ireland, about half of England, Sardinia and Sicily, Rome and Perugia), my North American Colonies holding most of the continent except for West side, my vassal Aragon, Brandenburg, a huge Hungary (they swallowed up Poland/Lithiania, the Balkans, Romania, and central Italy).

    I think i come out of this ahead, but I'm not sure what I'm actually supposed to do for inheritance war. Does taking over that one province in North Anatolia won this thing for me? Because that would be crackerjack nuts.

    So it's an One province minor holding the PU? I think occupying it won't immediately grant you 100% warscore, but you might get 100% after 5 years of the war have passed. There used to be a mechanic where after some time, which I think is 5 years, if you fully occupy the primary target of the war you get 100%, even if the allies aren't fully occupied.

    Of course, if they have occupation of any provinces this won't trigger.

    It seems likely that Russia won't be loyal to such a small country, so could probably be a fairly cheap Russia Pu get!

    I'm over my relation limit by one from alliances and vassals, do i need to drop someone or does that not matter?

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    PlatyPlaty Registered User regular
    Every relation above the limit costs 1 diplomatic point per month, it doesn't affect anything else for the player though

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Platy wrote: »
    Every relation above the limit costs 1 diplomatic point per month, it doesn't affect anything else for the player though

    Yeah I'm still getting like 10/month

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    RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    The Ottomans seem to ally Tunis a lot more this patch. Making it harder to get a smooth Byzantium start.

    Oh and the one time they allied AQ as easier to deal with they got an event which gave them tons of cash and hired lots of troops.

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    AnteCantelopeAnteCantelope Registered User regular
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Well things just got interesting. The ruler of Russia (Which is HUGE) just died without an heir and willed everything to a one province county in northern Anatolia, and for some reason it asked me if i want to contest for some reason. I'm playing France, and have had Russia rivaled for much of the game to fill up a rival slot, but have pretty much never interacted with them. When it asked me, i was in the middle of a war where i was helping my ally Hungary in a crusade vs Ottomans, and because of that i had a rather large army about two provinces away in Anatolia. I wrapped up my war against native Americans, and hit "contest", and sent that Army to that one province. Like a second layer Ottomans surrender and Hungary takes most of the remaining Ottoman land in Europe, including Constantinople.

    On their side: the one province, giant Russia, 2 province Riga, and like 5 province Russian vassal in the Caucasus.
    On my side: France (holding all of France, most of northern Italy, all but one in Ireland, about half of England, Sardinia and Sicily, Rome and Perugia), my North American Colonies holding most of the continent except for West side, my vassal Aragon, Brandenburg, a huge Hungary (they swallowed up Poland/Lithiania, the Balkans, Romania, and central Italy).

    I think i come out of this ahead, but I'm not sure what I'm actually supposed to do for inheritance war. Does taking over that one province in North Anatolia won this thing for me? Because that would be crackerjack nuts.

    The war goal will be to occupy Moscow, but taking out the OPM means they'll be really keen to negotiate. Take that, rush Moscow, and you should be fine. If you can, kill as many Russian troops as possible, because the weaker they are, the less disloyal they'll be.

    And remember when you win, get their opinion of you positive ASAP. If your ruler dies while their opinion of you is negative, the PU will end.

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