Yeah you really don't need a lot of space... 2x2 meters is heaps (I have less than that and it's great)
Of course, maybe that amount of unobstructed space in a room is super hard to come by in some people's lives but that seems difficult to imagine for me
They've said time and time again that the folks at Valve work on whatever they all want to work on. I'm sure a majority of them wants to do SOMETHING with VR. We'll see it eventually...?
That's Valve's ace in the hole that I am sure is keeping Oculus up at night; if it comes to the crunch Valve can deploy the Fuck Off Cannons and level portal, L4D or that IP That Shall Not Be Named to end debate over which device is preferred.
Yeah you really don't need a lot of space... 2x2 meters is heaps (I have less than that and it's great)
Of course, maybe that amount of unobstructed space in a room is super hard to come by in some people's lives but that seems difficult to imagine for me
My computer space at the moment is literally 1x1. Like I have room for a chair to move in and out.
Our living room does not have a TV (we don't really watch tv and it would ruin the aesthetic) and in any event setting up electronic peripherals is not an option.
Yeah you really don't need a lot of space... 2x2 meters is heaps (I have less than that and it's great)
Of course, maybe that amount of unobstructed space in a room is super hard to come by in some people's lives but that seems difficult to imagine for me
Different lives and all! I've lived in rural Oklahoma for most of my life, and now in Oklahoma City, which is much cheaper and less population dense than just about any other metropolitan area in the US. My house isn't large, but as I step back and look at it, my living room is of a pretty good size relative to what I've known throughout my life. I have a couch, a coffee table, and a TV stand, with space in between each. I think unobstructed is the key. If I were to push my coffee table right next to my couch, and my small TV stand right next to that, I would definitely have enough space to play. But, it remains a public space, and requires completely rearranging the room to the point that it no longer functions as a living room every time I want to indulge room scale.
I don't know anyone (outside of the very wealthy neighborhood a couple of miles away) who has that amount of unobstructed space in their house as it is currently set up, or who would be able to rearrange a room to suit dual purposes (any one of them could throw out their furniture and do it, or do it if they were comfortable with a lengthy rearranging processs every time they want to switch back and forth between "room people use in a house" and "room that is solely for VR in a house"). Everyone I know uses the space in their house. They acquire furniture and various stuff to the point where they don't have any open 2 m x 1.5 m voids in their house to easily plug in a roomscale setup.
It's the combination of a person that is willing and able to do all of this stuff that seems pretty rare. I feel like I fit the VR demo pretty damn well; mid-late twenties, pretty solid job, and single (relevant only because my pretty solid job becomes much less solid as soon as I have to care about providing for anyone other than myself).
I'm not saying you don't exist. Clearly you do, and others in the thread and elsewhere as well. What I'm saying is, earlier we were talking about "mainstream". I pointed out that none of us here are mainstream; I dropped $1100 on a new PC for VR and am pre-ordering a Rift, because PC games are my passion and that's what I spend my disposable income on. I'm not even close to mainstream, and I'm not particularly close to being a person that has facilities to use roomscale. If those of us who have a VR ready PC are the 1%, it feels like those with a viable roomscale setup are something like the 20-30% of that 1%.
Or, put another way, "20-40 year old nerd with disposable income willing to spend it on expensive, cutting edge tech stuff" is a stereotype (and person) I'm familiar with. "20-40 year old nerd with all of that who also has a living situation (seems like spouse or live-in partner is a common ingredient, anecdotally) to support having a permanent space for it, with that living partner also being cool with the idea of devoting such a space exclusively to what is, let's be honest with ourselves, an extremely nerdy and as of right now mostly isolating experience" is not one that I am familiar with.
I've had lots of cool roommates who would love to try VR, and a couple of ex-girlfriends who supported my nerdiness much more than what I consider to be the norm. They would all draw the line at "Hey what do you think about partitioning off an area the length of our couch and wider for permanent VR use?"
It doesn't need to be permanent. Most of the people I know just need to move a table aside. I'll say that most/all of my friends would be considered middle class or higher. The friends who wouldn't be able to easily swing it have children. However, close to half of the USA adult population has no children, so that's not a small audience.
Just tried the Oculus Rift at the Oculus Community Event. I'm actually surprised that I had as much difficulty as I did using my glasses with it. Gonna try to have another go at it with the alternative method of sticking the glasses in the Rift first and see if that works better. But these are with the default demo facial interfaces, and it might be better with the other one designed for glasses.
Edit: After talking to Oculus's release engineer, the best solution may be to actually just get a different pair of glasses.
I really want to get Track IR more than I want VR but it's so expensive. It seems amazing though and would super help with immersion while still allowing me to be on the lookout for any potential baby situation.
I really want to get Track IR more than I want VR but it's so expensive. It seems amazing though and would super help with immersion while still allowing me to be on the lookout for any potential baby situation.
Just tried the Oculus Rift at the Oculus Community Event. I'm actually surprised that I had as much difficulty as I did using my glasses with it. Gonna try to have another go at it with the alternative method of sticking the glasses in the Rift first and see if that works better. But these are with the default demo facial interfaces, and it might be better with the other one designed for glasses.
Edit: After talking to Oculus's release engineer, the best solution may be to actually just get a different pair of glasses.
I have pretty thin framed glasses so I didn't have any issues when I played with the Rift. Do you have pretty thick frames? The guy demoing it to me instructed me to make sure to go in face first. I'm not sure if that was just because I had glasses or not but they went in easy so yeah, I'd recommend that.
It doesn't need to be permanent. Most of the people I know just need to move a table aside. I'll say that most/all of my friends would be considered middle class or higher. The friends who wouldn't be able to easily swing it have children. However, close to half of the USA adult population has no children, so that's not a small audience.
Yeah I just have a coffee table I pick up and move into the kitchen every time, which takes me like 5 seconds and I can lift it by myself.
Of course, I'm a tall reasonably strong (not to be confused with fit) guy. My girlfriend probably couldn't comfortably do that by herself
It doesn't need to be permanent. Most of the people I know just need to move a table aside. I'll say that most/all of my friends would be considered middle class or higher. The friends who wouldn't be able to easily swing it have children. However, close to half of the USA adult population has no children, so that's not a small audience.
Yeah I just have a coffee table I pick up and move into the kitchen every time, which takes me like 5 seconds and I can lift it by myself.
Of course, I'm a tall reasonably strong (not to be confused with fit) guy. My girlfriend probably couldn't comfortably do that by herself
I think you're overestimating the apathy and laziness of the average person though.
They may move the coffee table aside a few times. After that and there's the real danger of them going "Ehhh I'll move it and play later".
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Just tried the Oculus Rift at the Oculus Community Event. I'm actually surprised that I had as much difficulty as I did using my glasses with it. Gonna try to have another go at it with the alternative method of sticking the glasses in the Rift first and see if that works better. But these are with the default demo facial interfaces, and it might be better with the other one designed for glasses.
Edit: After talking to Oculus's release engineer, the best solution may be to actually just get a different pair of glasses.
I have pretty thin framed glasses so I didn't have any issues when I played with the Rift. Do you have pretty thick frames? The guy demoing it to me instructed me to make sure to go in face first. I'm not sure if that was just because I had glasses or not but they went in easy so yeah, I'd recommend that.
The frames themselves are pretty thin, but it's probably pretty wide.
Just tried the Oculus Rift at the Oculus Community Event. I'm actually surprised that I had as much difficulty as I did using my glasses with it. Gonna try to have another go at it with the alternative method of sticking the glasses in the Rift first and see if that works better. But these are with the default demo facial interfaces, and it might be better with the other one designed for glasses.
Edit: After talking to Oculus's release engineer, the best solution may be to actually just get a different pair of glasses.
I have pretty thin framed glasses so I didn't have any issues when I played with the Rift. Do you have pretty thick frames? The guy demoing it to me instructed me to make sure to go in face first. I'm not sure if that was just because I had glasses or not but they went in easy so yeah, I'd recommend that.
The frames themselves are pretty thin, but it's probably pretty wide.
They will go in, but they don't feel super comfortable and there's a bit of push against my face.
Yeah, yours seem a bit wider than mine so that's probably part of it. From other reports I've seen about glasses it seems like the best experience is to not wear it as tight as possible. There's a sweet spot so you still get a good experience but the lenses aren't pressing your glasses into your face. It'll probably be better if you can actually make adjustments yourself to find the best experience.
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DietarySupplementStill not approved by the FDADublin, OHRegistered Userregular
Hey man, you enjoy your real actual life. As someone with no life I have a lot of disposable income and disposable time, so a virtual reality is both affordable and desirable. Beats the reality I have right now.
It doesn't need to be permanent. Most of the people I know just need to move a table aside. I'll say that most/all of my friends would be considered middle class or higher. The friends who wouldn't be able to easily swing it have children. However, close to half of the USA adult population has no children, so that's not a small audience.
Yeah I just have a coffee table I pick up and move into the kitchen every time, which takes me like 5 seconds and I can lift it by myself.
Of course, I'm a tall reasonably strong (not to be confused with fit) guy. My girlfriend probably couldn't comfortably do that by herself
I think you're overestimating the apathy and laziness of the average person though.
They may move the coffee table aside a few times. After that and there's the real danger of them going "Ehhh I'll move it and play later".
If they are that lazy they probably wouldn't bother with room scale anyway.
They were probably also too lazy to wash their head set.
Better hope they make one that hovers over people's faces.
Or basically if you worry about lazy people nothing would ever get made because there are a lot of sad sacks.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I really want to get Track IR more than I want VR but it's so expensive. It seems amazing though and would super help with immersion while still allowing me to be on the lookout for any potential baby situation.
TrackIR is so totally worth it, BTW.
uuuurrrghruurgh
I don't get how trackir is even in the same playground as VR.
It doesn't need to be permanent. Most of the people I know just need to move a table aside. I'll say that most/all of my friends would be considered middle class or higher. The friends who wouldn't be able to easily swing it have children. However, close to half of the USA adult population has no children, so that's not a small audience.
Yeah I just have a coffee table I pick up and move into the kitchen every time, which takes me like 5 seconds and I can lift it by myself.
Of course, I'm a tall reasonably strong (not to be confused with fit) guy. My girlfriend probably couldn't comfortably do that by herself
I think you're overestimating the apathy and laziness of the average person though.
They may move the coffee table aside a few times. After that and there's the real danger of them going "Ehhh I'll move it and play later".
If they are that lazy they probably wouldn't bother with room scale anyway.
They were probably also too lazy to wash their head set.
Better hope they make one that hovers over people's faces.
Or basically if you worry about lazy people nothing would ever get made because there are a lot of sad sacks.
Yeah brah, people who don't do room VR probably have stanky dandruff and BO too.
...What the fuck were you trying to accomplish here?!
We saw this happen with the Kinect too. Most people don't have a perfectly cut area of space for this stuff, with all that pesky "furniture" in the way. They'll move it temporarily once or twice. After that will come the decision whether to dedicate a space and their whole decor to it, or shrug their shoulders and throw the thing in a box, because as cool as it is they're not redecorating for it.
The people like Gabe who will pen off an entire room and screw in tracking cameras and baystations and shit are a percentile. And insulting those who don't want to are going to win you no favours.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Just tried the Oculus Rift at the Oculus Community Event. I'm actually surprised that I had as much difficulty as I did using my glasses with it. Gonna try to have another go at it with the alternative method of sticking the glasses in the Rift first and see if that works better. But these are with the default demo facial interfaces, and it might be better with the other one designed for glasses.
Edit: After talking to Oculus's release engineer, the best solution may be to actually just get a different pair of glasses.
I have pretty thin framed glasses so I didn't have any issues when I played with the Rift. Do you have pretty thick frames? The guy demoing it to me instructed me to make sure to go in face first. I'm not sure if that was just because I had glasses or not but they went in easy so yeah, I'd recommend that.
The frames themselves are pretty thin, but it's probably pretty wide.
They will go in, but they don't feel super comfortable and there's a bit of push against my face.
Yikes, my glasses are pretty much like these, so this information is pretty disconcerting to me. It is mainly that you feel the glasses uncomfortably against your face? Or is it that the Rift itself doesn't give the experience you expected with glasses on (my experience with most 3D tech and my glasses)?
Here's to hoping that the other facial interface is viable for people who basically wear glasses all the time. Does anyone know if the Rift going to ship with the alternate facial interface? Or will that be something we have to purchase down the line?
Kinect didn't fail because of space, it failed because of suck.
No, it did also need a lot of room and a pretty frequent comment in every article about it was "you'll need to clear some space". It didn't have a big vertical field-of-view, so you needed to stand a long way back. That definitely put people off.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Just tried the Oculus Rift at the Oculus Community Event. I'm actually surprised that I had as much difficulty as I did using my glasses with it. Gonna try to have another go at it with the alternative method of sticking the glasses in the Rift first and see if that works better. But these are with the default demo facial interfaces, and it might be better with the other one designed for glasses.
Edit: After talking to Oculus's release engineer, the best solution may be to actually just get a different pair of glasses.
I have pretty thin framed glasses so I didn't have any issues when I played with the Rift. Do you have pretty thick frames? The guy demoing it to me instructed me to make sure to go in face first. I'm not sure if that was just because I had glasses or not but they went in easy so yeah, I'd recommend that.
The frames themselves are pretty thin, but it's probably pretty wide.
They will go in, but they don't feel super comfortable and there's a bit of push against my face.
Yikes, my glasses are pretty much like these, so this information is pretty disconcerting to me. It is mainly that you feel the glasses uncomfortably against your face? Or is it that the Rift itself doesn't give the experience you expected with glasses on (my experience with most 3D tech and my glasses)?
Here's to hoping that the other facial interface is viable for people who basically wear glasses all the time. Does anyone know if the Rift going to ship with the alternate facial interface? Or will that be something we have to purchase down the line?
It's the physical discomfort. Aside from a small loss of field of view, glasses don't themselves degrade VR experiences.
Yeah, the clarity was fine. It was just more uncomfortable than what I'm used to wearing the GearVR without glasses, which works because of the focus adjustment that's not in the Rift/Vive. It was also a bit of a pain to put on.
I really want to get Track IR more than I want VR but it's so expensive. It seems amazing though and would super help with immersion while still allowing me to be on the lookout for any potential baby situation.
TrackIR is so totally worth it, BTW.
uuuurrrghruurgh
It's kind of a nuisance if you're not accustomed to just wearing a hat for the sake of wearing a hat.
I've had less success with TrackIR 4 and 5 using headphones for the job, but maybe I just have bad headphones.
It's fantastic when it works, particularly in flight simulation.
It doesn't need to be permanent. Most of the people I know just need to move a table aside. I'll say that most/all of my friends would be considered middle class or higher. The friends who wouldn't be able to easily swing it have children. However, close to half of the USA adult population has no children, so that's not a small audience.
Yeah I just have a coffee table I pick up and move into the kitchen every time, which takes me like 5 seconds and I can lift it by myself.
Of course, I'm a tall reasonably strong (not to be confused with fit) guy. My girlfriend probably couldn't comfortably do that by herself
I think you're overestimating the apathy and laziness of the average person though.
They may move the coffee table aside a few times. After that and there's the real danger of them going "Ehhh I'll move it and play later".
If they are that lazy they probably wouldn't bother with room scale anyway.
They were probably also too lazy to wash their head set.
Better hope they make one that hovers over people's faces.
Or basically if you worry about lazy people nothing would ever get made because there are a lot of sad sacks.
Yeah brah, people who don't do room VR probably have stanky dandruff and BO too.
...What the fuck were you trying to accomplish here?!
We saw this happen with the Kinect too. Most people don't have a perfectly cut area of space for this stuff, with all that pesky "furniture" in the way. They'll move it temporarily once or twice. After that will come the decision whether to dedicate a space and their whole decor to it, or shrug their shoulders and throw the thing in a box, because as cool as it is they're not redecorating for it.
The people like Gabe who will pen off an entire room and screw in tracking cameras and baystations and shit are a percentile. And insulting those who don't want to are going to win you no favours.
Surprisingly my point was in my post. It was the final sentence though so I'll understand if you just had to run off to respond so quickly that you didn't make it that far.
You can't design tech around the idea that people are too lazy. Or you'll never make anything.
TrackIR is a fantastic product, but it's made almost completely obsolete by VR in every way but cost (and screen resolution, I guess). The car/plane/spaceship sim games that TrackIR is best suited for are also the sort of games that are the most naturally suited for VR. A virtual reality headset lets you achieve everything TrackIR does its best to simulate.
I mean, look at this super awesome TrackIR setup:
For about the same cost of buying two extra monitors and TrackIR, you could get a Rift or Vive and have "monitors" that surround your entire 360 degree view in every spherical direction, with your view changing in 1:1 correlation with your head movements instead of an accelerated correlation. Oh, and with everything now in 3d, and with the audio sources now binaural and matched to your head movements.
Man, 20 years ago I was thinking that pedals were ridiculously expensive and hoping that someone would make something functional available at a reasonable cost, like what sticks and even HOTAS have, and now 20 years later it hasn't happened yet.
I feel the TrackIR comparison is a case of apples to oranges (or maybe "bicycles to helicopters")--for starters, one of my complaints about TrackIR is the mild inconvenience of using it (see the above hat comment). But in the grand scheme of things, a Rift or Vive is literally an order of magnitude more inconvenient. I can actually stand up from my desk, go do something else briefly with my silly looking hat, and return with the TrackIR tag still on my head (with the inconvenience of possibly having to re-calibrate it). With a proper VR headset, that literally becomes several steps to remove it, and several steps to put it back on.
Though I have to say, Wonderpug, you have forced me to confront the reality of VR for me personally: I don't care for the new games, currently, but the possibility if a full-surrounding field of view an order of magnitude more comprehensive than one (or even three) monitors is pretty damn alluring. I could see myself buying a VR system for that purposes if the budget allowed....
Man, 20 years ago I was thinking that pedals were ridiculously expensive and hoping that someone would make something functional available at a reasonable cost, like what sticks and even HOTAS have, and now 20 years later it hasn't happened yet.
What you've described, I think, is part of the overriding tragedy of the catastrophic collapse of the flight simulation genre back towards the end of the 1990s and early 2000s, that we've only started to recover from now thanks to a resurgence in space simulation games (and a handful of very determine flight sim series).
I thought (toggable) force feedback was going to be a thing on every HOTAS. Every one! But all we got was the Logitech G940, and every gamepad having FF. I got a Saitek Rhino X-55 for a steal after I sold my G940 on eBay for a surprisingly good price, and it's very respectable at the job, but it's still a commitment as much as a piece of hardware.
My brother got to play Descent:Underground with the Oculus Rift CV1 at SXSW. His impressions:
There were people trying out Descent with the CV1 and Xbox controllers, and people on KBAM (EDIT: on regular monitors). They also had the Vive. People playing on VR had to stand.
Descent started making him uncomfortable as soon as gameplay started. When moving up it felt like the room was dropping. He thinks it would have been better if they had been sitting. After one 5 minute match he felt nauseated.
There was no modeled cockpit, just a floating HUD rectangle, which my brother found hard to see. Also, he'd accidentally look away from the crosshairs without realizing it and start having shots not go where he expected.
The KBAM people on regular monitors did better than the people with controllers on VR. Part of this is that my brother couldn't move up and down while steering using the controller, but he says not looking at the crosshairs probably got him killed a few times
He found surprisingly few places to try the VR headsets, at least yesterday. He only saw the Vive at the Descent booth, and he wasn't going to try that again.
The part he found most impressive was actually the loadout room -- just a room with a computer where you select your loadout. He thought it was the best VR experience he's had so far.
Though I have to say, Wonderpug, you have forced me to confront the reality of VR for me personally: I don't care for the new games, currently, but the possibility if a full-surrounding field of view an order of magnitude more comprehensive than one (or even three) monitors is pretty damn alluring. I could see myself buying a VR system for that purposes if the budget allowed....
Honestly, as excited as I am for a lot of the upcoming games made specifically for VR, I think I'm most excited about sims. I already put dozens of hours into Elite Dangerous when it first came out of beta and now I can't wait to put in dozens more playing it in VR. I've been really enjoying Dirt Rally and Project Cars, but I haven't played them in months because I'm so giddy to be able to play them in VR soon. If someone makes a good Red Baron or Aces of the Pacific style game in VR, I could lose myself in that for hundreds of hours.
Though I have to say, Wonderpug, you have forced me to confront the reality of VR for me personally: I don't care for the new games, currently, but the possibility if a full-surrounding field of view an order of magnitude more comprehensive than one (or even three) monitors is pretty damn alluring. I could see myself buying a VR system for that purposes if the budget allowed....
Honestly, as excited as I am for a lot of the upcoming games made specifically for VR, I think I'm most excited about sims. I already put dozens of hours into Elite Dangerous when it first came out of beta and now I can't wait to put in dozens more playing it in VR. I've been really enjoying Dirt Rally and Project Cars, but I haven't played them in months because I'm so giddy to be able to play them in VR soon. If someone makes a good Red Baron or Aces of the Pacific style game in VR, I could lose myself in that for hundreds of hours.
Once again, it's something I'd have to try out myself somehow, but the possibilities of using in something like DCS...wow.
Then I remember that there's really no way for me to play that game as it is now without seeing my controls. Though I suppose with the camera built into the Vive...
Once again, it's something I'd have to try out myself somehow, but the possibilities of using in something like DCS...wow.
Then I remember that there's really no way for me to play that game as it is now without seeing my controls. Though I suppose with the camera built into the Vive...
It'd be pretty awesome if it became standard practice in VR sims to let you select the input device you're using and have it modelled in your VR cockpit so you can find your real-world buttons by looking at your virtual HOTAS. Elite Dangerous players with the Saitek X-52 already get to have this. : )
It doesn't need to be permanent. Most of the people I know just need to move a table aside. I'll say that most/all of my friends would be considered middle class or higher. The friends who wouldn't be able to easily swing it have children. However, close to half of the USA adult population has no children, so that's not a small audience.
Yeah I just have a coffee table I pick up and move into the kitchen every time, which takes me like 5 seconds and I can lift it by myself.
Of course, I'm a tall reasonably strong (not to be confused with fit) guy. My girlfriend probably couldn't comfortably do that by herself
I think you're overestimating the apathy and laziness of the average person though.
They may move the coffee table aside a few times. After that and there's the real danger of them going "Ehhh I'll move it and play later".
Yeah, at the end of the day all I'm saying is that it is a barrier to entry, in addition to all of the other VR barriers to entry that already exist. You guys are right in that it doesn't have to be a permanent setup, but that adds another layer of inconvenience. Since everyone seems comfortable with the "living room" set up, we can't just assume everyone has their gaming PC set up in their living room and ready to go. I could definitely mount my TV to the wall, and move my coffee table into the dining room every time I want to room scale. But, now I've rendered both the living room and the dining room useless to my roommate. He would be fine with that to start with, because fuck yeah VR look how cool all of this is. But, I'm paying $600-800 dollars for a VR headset that I want to use a lot. I normally have 3 or so hours a night to play video games, on a weeknight after work. My PC is in my room, not the living room. I'm not permanently setting up my cool expensive gaming PC in the living room, because I'm using it every day and the living room is a shared space. I don't think it is a very common setup for anyone to have their spouse or roommate be ok with them having their gaming PC and "normal" gaming setup in the living room on a permanent basis.
So, the setup is "Move the coffee table to the dining room, unhook my PC from my room, unhook my lighthouse sensors (which I am using for non-roomscale games in my room, because I can't take over the living room for all of my gaming needs), take them both to the living room, hook my PC up to the TV as well as the Vive, and remount/plugin my lighthouse sensors that need to be at a high elevation for proper roomscale detection. Then, move it all back into my room once I'm done room scaling".
I'm not trying to make any of this out to be some herculean task. But, it's not something I'm going to want to do every day. Most days after I get off work, I'm pretty damn tired. I want to sit down, forget about the stresses of work, and play some video games. I'm the example here, but my coworkers also agree that they are exhausted after work, and generally indicate that they want to pour a strong drink or glass of wine and be lazy once they get home. I feel comfortable assuming this is true for a large amount of people who work 40 or more hours a week.
It doesn't need to be permanent. Most of the people I know just need to move a table aside. I'll say that most/all of my friends would be considered middle class or higher. The friends who wouldn't be able to easily swing it have children. However, close to half of the USA adult population has no children, so that's not a small audience.
Yeah I just have a coffee table I pick up and move into the kitchen every time, which takes me like 5 seconds and I can lift it by myself.
Of course, I'm a tall reasonably strong (not to be confused with fit) guy. My girlfriend probably couldn't comfortably do that by herself
I think you're overestimating the apathy and laziness of the average person though.
They may move the coffee table aside a few times. After that and there's the real danger of them going "Ehhh I'll move it and play later".
If they are that lazy they probably wouldn't bother with room scale anyway.
They were probably also too lazy to wash their head set.
Better hope they make one that hovers over people's faces.
Or basically if you worry about lazy people nothing would ever get made because there are a lot of sad sacks.
Hey dude? I work out every day. After I work out, I am very tired. I don't want to spend a lot (really, any amount) of time rearranging furniture and rewiring things every day; sorry I don't fit your "sad sack" description.
I still think playing roomscale games after work would be fun. That stuff is all very low intensity if we're looking at it as exercise, and they look engaging enough that I would love doing it to de-stress. Can we stop pretending roomscale is a fun experience for fit nerds and anything else is for lazy nerds? The fun-ness of roomscale doesn't negate its limitations, and ample playing space is one of them. This all applies to the Rift as well; I don't have the setup to do some of the roomscale experiences developers are going to be supporting. This is also why I, and some others, view it as an advantage that Oculus is focusing their line up on sitting and standing experiences.
Once again, it's something I'd have to try out myself somehow, but the possibilities of using in something like DCS...wow.
Then I remember that there's really no way for me to play that game as it is now without seeing my controls. Though I suppose with the camera built into the Vive...
It'd be pretty awesome if it became standard practice in VR sims to let you select the input device you're using and have it modelled in your VR cockpit so you can find your real-world buttons by looking at your virtual HOTAS. Elite Dangerous players with the Saitek X-52 already get to have this. : )
It would be, but to be honest, it doesn't really work for games like certain modules in DCS, which can easily have ten or easy twenty times the control strokes of Elite just because of their nature. Down the line there might end being an application for gloves that will actually let you track where your fingers are, and let you know which switch in a bank of ten (of three banks over the door handle) you're going to hit, but at the present, it's not a solution. We're talking about games that managed to overwhelm the huge plethora of switches and keys available on an X-55, that have fully modeled cockpits in English or Russian (usually the result of only having one aircraft you can fly in a given module).
That's not really a VR problem so much a a problem of the sheer complexity of games like DCS can hit. It's a great feature to become standard in VR development, but I suspect a lot of developers won't be bothered/won't benefit from it.
A game with the complexity level of Il-2 Sturmovik or the like--you could pretty easily get around that, with a little work (and a lot of memorization), and the developers don't need much additional work on their end, if any.
I think that for some games with intricate controls, voice control might be an option. Sims could work fairly well like that, putting controls where timing is critical on physical buttons, while other things could be controlled with voice commands: gear up, gear down, that sort of thing. It'd have to be designed well and work reliably, but I'm sure the former can be done and in the age of Siri I am pretty sure the latter isn't a big issue. (Not like back in the day when you could kinda, sorta voice-control the Star Trek Encyclopedia to hilarious yet impractical effect.)
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Definitely some games--the rest of you will laugh, but voice commands are more than adequate for browsing TV on my Xbox One. They would be useless in my flight sim example, not so much because of timing and urgency though that would be a possibility, but the similarity of controls and how they're mapped out (not everything is 'On' or 'Off', or even 'More' or 'Less'). The Elite solution would be better, though that has a very real ceiling on how many controls you can be dealing with.
They gathered a lot of feedback from that initial meeting. Developers were adamant that HTC and Valve shouldn't splinter the community. No choice between 180-degree tracking and 360-degree tracking. No bundled controllers or unbundled controllers. One product. One specification. "We'd been thinking similarly along the way," Faliszek said. "It was really an affirmation of that."
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Of course, maybe that amount of unobstructed space in a room is super hard to come by in some people's lives but that seems difficult to imagine for me
Probably real life, too
My computer space at the moment is literally 1x1. Like I have room for a chair to move in and out.
Our living room does not have a TV (we don't really watch tv and it would ruin the aesthetic) and in any event setting up electronic peripherals is not an option.
Different lives and all! I've lived in rural Oklahoma for most of my life, and now in Oklahoma City, which is much cheaper and less population dense than just about any other metropolitan area in the US. My house isn't large, but as I step back and look at it, my living room is of a pretty good size relative to what I've known throughout my life. I have a couch, a coffee table, and a TV stand, with space in between each. I think unobstructed is the key. If I were to push my coffee table right next to my couch, and my small TV stand right next to that, I would definitely have enough space to play. But, it remains a public space, and requires completely rearranging the room to the point that it no longer functions as a living room every time I want to indulge room scale.
I don't know anyone (outside of the very wealthy neighborhood a couple of miles away) who has that amount of unobstructed space in their house as it is currently set up, or who would be able to rearrange a room to suit dual purposes (any one of them could throw out their furniture and do it, or do it if they were comfortable with a lengthy rearranging processs every time they want to switch back and forth between "room people use in a house" and "room that is solely for VR in a house"). Everyone I know uses the space in their house. They acquire furniture and various stuff to the point where they don't have any open 2 m x 1.5 m voids in their house to easily plug in a roomscale setup.
It's the combination of a person that is willing and able to do all of this stuff that seems pretty rare. I feel like I fit the VR demo pretty damn well; mid-late twenties, pretty solid job, and single (relevant only because my pretty solid job becomes much less solid as soon as I have to care about providing for anyone other than myself).
I'm not saying you don't exist. Clearly you do, and others in the thread and elsewhere as well. What I'm saying is, earlier we were talking about "mainstream". I pointed out that none of us here are mainstream; I dropped $1100 on a new PC for VR and am pre-ordering a Rift, because PC games are my passion and that's what I spend my disposable income on. I'm not even close to mainstream, and I'm not particularly close to being a person that has facilities to use roomscale. If those of us who have a VR ready PC are the 1%, it feels like those with a viable roomscale setup are something like the 20-30% of that 1%.
Or, put another way, "20-40 year old nerd with disposable income willing to spend it on expensive, cutting edge tech stuff" is a stereotype (and person) I'm familiar with. "20-40 year old nerd with all of that who also has a living situation (seems like spouse or live-in partner is a common ingredient, anecdotally) to support having a permanent space for it, with that living partner also being cool with the idea of devoting such a space exclusively to what is, let's be honest with ourselves, an extremely nerdy and as of right now mostly isolating experience" is not one that I am familiar with.
I've had lots of cool roommates who would love to try VR, and a couple of ex-girlfriends who supported my nerdiness much more than what I consider to be the norm. They would all draw the line at "Hey what do you think about partitioning off an area the length of our couch and wider for permanent VR use?"
Edit: After talking to Oculus's release engineer, the best solution may be to actually just get a different pair of glasses.
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TrackIR is so totally worth it, BTW.
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uuuurrrghruurgh
I have pretty thin framed glasses so I didn't have any issues when I played with the Rift. Do you have pretty thick frames? The guy demoing it to me instructed me to make sure to go in face first. I'm not sure if that was just because I had glasses or not but they went in easy so yeah, I'd recommend that.
Yeah I just have a coffee table I pick up and move into the kitchen every time, which takes me like 5 seconds and I can lift it by myself.
Of course, I'm a tall reasonably strong (not to be confused with fit) guy. My girlfriend probably couldn't comfortably do that by herself
I think you're overestimating the apathy and laziness of the average person though.
They may move the coffee table aside a few times. After that and there's the real danger of them going "Ehhh I'll move it and play later".
The frames themselves are pretty thin, but it's probably pretty wide.
Here they are with a Wii box as reference
http://i.imgur.com/2IpfIi9.jpg
They will go in, but they don't feel super comfortable and there's a bit of push against my face.
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Yeah, yours seem a bit wider than mine so that's probably part of it. From other reports I've seen about glasses it seems like the best experience is to not wear it as tight as possible. There's a sweet spot so you still get a good experience but the lenses aren't pressing your glasses into your face. It'll probably be better if you can actually make adjustments yourself to find the best experience.
If they are that lazy they probably wouldn't bother with room scale anyway.
They were probably also too lazy to wash their head set.
Better hope they make one that hovers over people's faces.
Or basically if you worry about lazy people nothing would ever get made because there are a lot of sad sacks.
The point is it's no more or less difficult than setting aside time for any other hobby as a parent, it's not a special case.
I don't get how trackir is even in the same playground as VR.
http://www.polygon.com/2016/3/18/11260808/playstation-vr-bundle-preorders?utm_campaign=polygon&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Yeah brah, people who don't do room VR probably have stanky dandruff and BO too.
...What the fuck were you trying to accomplish here?!
We saw this happen with the Kinect too. Most people don't have a perfectly cut area of space for this stuff, with all that pesky "furniture" in the way. They'll move it temporarily once or twice. After that will come the decision whether to dedicate a space and their whole decor to it, or shrug their shoulders and throw the thing in a box, because as cool as it is they're not redecorating for it.
The people like Gabe who will pen off an entire room and screw in tracking cameras and baystations and shit are a percentile. And insulting those who don't want to are going to win you no favours.
Yikes, my glasses are pretty much like these, so this information is pretty disconcerting to me. It is mainly that you feel the glasses uncomfortably against your face? Or is it that the Rift itself doesn't give the experience you expected with glasses on (my experience with most 3D tech and my glasses)?
Here's to hoping that the other facial interface is viable for people who basically wear glasses all the time. Does anyone know if the Rift going to ship with the alternate facial interface? Or will that be something we have to purchase down the line?
No, it did also need a lot of room and a pretty frequent comment in every article about it was "you'll need to clear some space". It didn't have a big vertical field-of-view, so you needed to stand a long way back. That definitely put people off.
The Lab was announced a while ago. Definitely not exclusive.
It's the physical discomfort. Aside from a small loss of field of view, glasses don't themselves degrade VR experiences.
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It's kind of a nuisance if you're not accustomed to just wearing a hat for the sake of wearing a hat.
I've had less success with TrackIR 4 and 5 using headphones for the job, but maybe I just have bad headphones.
It's fantastic when it works, particularly in flight simulation.
Surprisingly my point was in my post. It was the final sentence though so I'll understand if you just had to run off to respond so quickly that you didn't make it that far.
You can't design tech around the idea that people are too lazy. Or you'll never make anything.
I mean, look at this super awesome TrackIR setup:
For about the same cost of buying two extra monitors and TrackIR, you could get a Rift or Vive and have "monitors" that surround your entire 360 degree view in every spherical direction, with your view changing in 1:1 correlation with your head movements instead of an accelerated correlation. Oh, and with everything now in 3d, and with the audio sources now binaural and matched to your head movements.
Though I have to say, Wonderpug, you have forced me to confront the reality of VR for me personally: I don't care for the new games, currently, but the possibility if a full-surrounding field of view an order of magnitude more comprehensive than one (or even three) monitors is pretty damn alluring. I could see myself buying a VR system for that purposes if the budget allowed....
What you've described, I think, is part of the overriding tragedy of the catastrophic collapse of the flight simulation genre back towards the end of the 1990s and early 2000s, that we've only started to recover from now thanks to a resurgence in space simulation games (and a handful of very determine flight sim series).
I thought (toggable) force feedback was going to be a thing on every HOTAS. Every one! But all we got was the Logitech G940, and every gamepad having FF. I got a Saitek Rhino X-55 for a steal after I sold my G940 on eBay for a surprisingly good price, and it's very respectable at the job, but it's still a commitment as much as a piece of hardware.
Honestly, as excited as I am for a lot of the upcoming games made specifically for VR, I think I'm most excited about sims. I already put dozens of hours into Elite Dangerous when it first came out of beta and now I can't wait to put in dozens more playing it in VR. I've been really enjoying Dirt Rally and Project Cars, but I haven't played them in months because I'm so giddy to be able to play them in VR soon. If someone makes a good Red Baron or Aces of the Pacific style game in VR, I could lose myself in that for hundreds of hours.
Once again, it's something I'd have to try out myself somehow, but the possibilities of using in something like DCS...wow.
Then I remember that there's really no way for me to play that game as it is now without seeing my controls. Though I suppose with the camera built into the Vive...
It'd be pretty awesome if it became standard practice in VR sims to let you select the input device you're using and have it modelled in your VR cockpit so you can find your real-world buttons by looking at your virtual HOTAS. Elite Dangerous players with the Saitek X-52 already get to have this. : )
Yeah, at the end of the day all I'm saying is that it is a barrier to entry, in addition to all of the other VR barriers to entry that already exist. You guys are right in that it doesn't have to be a permanent setup, but that adds another layer of inconvenience. Since everyone seems comfortable with the "living room" set up, we can't just assume everyone has their gaming PC set up in their living room and ready to go. I could definitely mount my TV to the wall, and move my coffee table into the dining room every time I want to room scale. But, now I've rendered both the living room and the dining room useless to my roommate. He would be fine with that to start with, because fuck yeah VR look how cool all of this is. But, I'm paying $600-800 dollars for a VR headset that I want to use a lot. I normally have 3 or so hours a night to play video games, on a weeknight after work. My PC is in my room, not the living room. I'm not permanently setting up my cool expensive gaming PC in the living room, because I'm using it every day and the living room is a shared space. I don't think it is a very common setup for anyone to have their spouse or roommate be ok with them having their gaming PC and "normal" gaming setup in the living room on a permanent basis.
So, the setup is "Move the coffee table to the dining room, unhook my PC from my room, unhook my lighthouse sensors (which I am using for non-roomscale games in my room, because I can't take over the living room for all of my gaming needs), take them both to the living room, hook my PC up to the TV as well as the Vive, and remount/plugin my lighthouse sensors that need to be at a high elevation for proper roomscale detection. Then, move it all back into my room once I'm done room scaling".
I'm not trying to make any of this out to be some herculean task. But, it's not something I'm going to want to do every day. Most days after I get off work, I'm pretty damn tired. I want to sit down, forget about the stresses of work, and play some video games. I'm the example here, but my coworkers also agree that they are exhausted after work, and generally indicate that they want to pour a strong drink or glass of wine and be lazy once they get home. I feel comfortable assuming this is true for a large amount of people who work 40 or more hours a week.
Hey dude? I work out every day. After I work out, I am very tired. I don't want to spend a lot (really, any amount) of time rearranging furniture and rewiring things every day; sorry I don't fit your "sad sack" description.
I still think playing roomscale games after work would be fun. That stuff is all very low intensity if we're looking at it as exercise, and they look engaging enough that I would love doing it to de-stress. Can we stop pretending roomscale is a fun experience for fit nerds and anything else is for lazy nerds? The fun-ness of roomscale doesn't negate its limitations, and ample playing space is one of them. This all applies to the Rift as well; I don't have the setup to do some of the roomscale experiences developers are going to be supporting. This is also why I, and some others, view it as an advantage that Oculus is focusing their line up on sitting and standing experiences.
It would be, but to be honest, it doesn't really work for games like certain modules in DCS, which can easily have ten or easy twenty times the control strokes of Elite just because of their nature. Down the line there might end being an application for gloves that will actually let you track where your fingers are, and let you know which switch in a bank of ten (of three banks over the door handle) you're going to hit, but at the present, it's not a solution. We're talking about games that managed to overwhelm the huge plethora of switches and keys available on an X-55, that have fully modeled cockpits in English or Russian (usually the result of only having one aircraft you can fly in a given module).
That's not really a VR problem so much a a problem of the sheer complexity of games like DCS can hit. It's a great feature to become standard in VR development, but I suspect a lot of developers won't be bothered/won't benefit from it.
A game with the complexity level of Il-2 Sturmovik or the like--you could pretty easily get around that, with a little work (and a lot of memorization), and the developers don't need much additional work on their end, if any.
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