Definitely some games--the rest of you will laugh, but voice commands are more than adequate for browsing TV on my Xbox One. They would be useless in my flight sim example, not so much because of timing and urgency though that would be a possibility, but the similarity of controls and how they're mapped out (not everything is 'On' or 'Off', or even 'More' or 'Less'). The Elite solution would be better, though that has a very real ceiling on how many controls you can be dealing with.
There's quite a few people that use Voice Attack for voice commands in things like Elite. I mean you're not totally controlling the game with your voice but things like landing gears, jumping, etc, are all pretty nice to haves. I mean it's all sort of a preference thing, I have more than enough sticks and toggles on my HOTAS. But I can see in VR where I can't physically look down at it that voice might be a better option for a few things. It won't work for all games but I can see it being a cool supplement.
I think that for some games with intricate controls, voice control might be an option. Sims could work fairly well like that, putting controls where timing is critical on physical buttons, while other things could be controlled with voice commands: gear up, gear down, that sort of thing. It'd have to be designed well and work reliably, but I'm sure the former can be done and in the age of Siri I am pretty sure the latter isn't a big issue. (Not like back in the day when you could kinda, sorta voice-control the Star Trek Encyclopedia to hilarious yet impractical effect.)
It's a fantastic add-on; I use it all the time in Elite to do things like request docking permissions from a station, or jump to another star, "Rig for silent running," etc.
It doesn't need to be permanent. Most of the people I know just need to move a table aside. I'll say that most/all of my friends would be considered middle class or higher. The friends who wouldn't be able to easily swing it have children. However, close to half of the USA adult population has no children, so that's not a small audience.
Yeah I just have a coffee table I pick up and move into the kitchen every time, which takes me like 5 seconds and I can lift it by myself.
Of course, I'm a tall reasonably strong (not to be confused with fit) guy. My girlfriend probably couldn't comfortably do that by herself
I think you're overestimating the apathy and laziness of the average person though.
They may move the coffee table aside a few times. After that and there's the real danger of them going "Ehhh I'll move it and play later".
If they are that lazy they probably wouldn't bother with room scale anyway.
They were probably also too lazy to wash their head set.
Better hope they make one that hovers over people's faces.
Or basically if you worry about lazy people nothing would ever get made because there are a lot of sad sacks.
Yeah brah, people who don't do room VR probably have stanky dandruff and BO too.
...What the fuck were you trying to accomplish here?!
We saw this happen with the Kinect too. Most people don't have a perfectly cut area of space for this stuff, with all that pesky "furniture" in the way. They'll move it temporarily once or twice. After that will come the decision whether to dedicate a space and their whole decor to it, or shrug their shoulders and throw the thing in a box, because as cool as it is they're not redecorating for it.
The people like Gabe who will pen off an entire room and screw in tracking cameras and baystations and shit are a percentile. And insulting those who don't want to are going to win you no favours.
Surprisingly my point was in my post. It was the final sentence though so I'll understand if you just had to run off to respond so quickly that you didn't make it that far.
You can't design tech around the idea that people are too lazy. Or you'll never make anything.
I know I said it, but lazy is probably not the right word. Apathy is closer. People have gotten into a pretty uniform way of consuming entertainment over the years. By all means, shake up the status quo, hopefully it'll be awesome enough to make people want to try something different. But there are loads and loads of examples from all over that it's really hard to get people to change out of their routine.
This new tech is asking people to completely redecorate and cater solely to it. That is going to be a real hard sell, regardless of how awesome it is.
And making offhand comments of "I guess you're too lazy to wash your face before using VR" is not going to help your sales pitch. Just ask Google Glass and the "Glasshole" demographic.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
"If you want to watch a movie at home you need a TV, then you'll need like a table or stand or something or else you have to sit on the floor with it, I can't be dealin with that. And buy chairs or a sofa? A SOFA!?"
Find out your 'wave' and shipping date. 1 - 888 - 216 - 4736. Have order number and provided email ready.
"Yes you are part of the fourst wave shipping order your order will ship by April 5th."
".... first wave? You're saying the first?"
"Yes you are in the fourst wave shipping."
.... dang accents scaring me. Anyways yay I'm first wave~ Also hear first wave might send out on April first, to arrive on the fifth. And that second wave consist of people ordering 10+ minutes after preorders started, and is shipping out the second half of April.
Arriving on the fifth, not shipping on the fifth? THAT KNOCKS TWO DAYS OFF MY COUNTDOWN HELLS YEAH
Edit: Just called that number, she confirmed I'm in the first wave but specifically said shipping would start on the 5th and the shipping is 2 business days. My confirmation email is 3 minutes after launch, so hopefully I have it on the 7th.
who knows really. after hearing the accent of fourst = first, I wouldn't be surprised if someone misunderstood april fifth as the first. edit- whoaaaa.... ninja edit. congrats on the first wave stuff and yeah it's probably shipping the fifth arriving soon after.
... oh crap. this was bad. now my anticipation is overflowing fffffffffff
Arriving on the fifth, not shipping on the fifth? THAT KNOCKS TWO DAYS OFF MY COUNTDOWN HELLS YEAH
Edit: Just called that number, she confirmed I'm in the first wave but specifically said shipping would start on the 5th and the shipping is 2 business days. My confirmation email is 3 minutes after launch, so hopefully I have it on the 7th.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2016
HTC support is notoriously poor, well known for giving five different answers from three different support staff, and having all five of those responses manage to be wrong in some way.
I would say do not put any stock in anything they tell you. Even something as simple as changing order details they are getting wrong.
There's currently two answers right now (because only april people are trying). First wave or second wave. April 5th or 'second half of April.' And an account of people in the first 10 minutes being first wave and someone ordering 13 minutes in and being second wave. So I have high hopes of them reading my order correctly. I haven't tried changing anything.
"If you want to watch a movie at home you need a TV, then you'll need like a table or stand or something or else you have to sit on the floor with it, I can't be dealin with that. And buy chairs or a sofa? A SOFA!?"
Literally(not literally) you.
You really don't see the false equivalence in this?
"If you want to watch a movie at home you need a TV, then you'll need like a table or stand or something or else you have to sit on the floor with it, I can't be dealin with that. And buy chairs or a sofa? A SOFA!?"
Literally(not literally) you.
You really don't see the false equivalence in this?
Not really?....TV, living room radio, refrigerator, washing machines, cars....ect. These all needed space to be made for them and rearranging how we set up our living space.
"If you want to watch a movie at home you need a TV, then you'll need like a table or stand or something or else you have to sit on the floor with it, I can't be dealin with that. And buy chairs or a sofa? A SOFA!?"
Literally(not literally) you.
You really don't see the false equivalence in this?
Not really?....TV, living room radio, refrigerator, washing machines, cars....ect. These all needed space to be made for them and rearranging how we set up our living space.
Yes, great. And these are all things you make space for (generally) once.
The argument has been people who do not have a permanent space for room scale. These are people that would need to make the space EACH time they want to perform that activity. This is like having to clean out your garage every time you want to park your car. Chances are if your garage is packed you just end up parking your car out on the street.
If you have a dedicated room or space for it, yes, that's great! I'm happy for you, but don't assume everyone else does. And while this doesn't apply to you specifically, saying that someone is lazy because they don't want to spend 10 minutes rearranging their room when they have a grand total of 60 minutes of time they can dedicate to gaming is pretty awful. It just means they want to be able to spend their free time how they want.
0
HardtargetThere Are Four LightsVancouverRegistered Userregular
I said none of those things. I am saying that we make permanent space for lots of things today that we didn't used to in the past. Virtually everything in your living space, besides your bed, was something invented in the past 150 years and needed space to be made for it. If it is something people find desirable enough, the space will get made.
People without a lot of free time are not in any way the target audience for almost every leisure activity, other than maybe television.
I said none of those things. I am saying that we make permanent space for lots of things today that we didn't used to in the past. Virtually everything in your living space, besides your bed, was something invented in the past 150 years and needed space to be made for it. If it is something people find desirable enough, the space will get made.
You realize you're setting a pretty high bar right? You've listed several of the major components that most people consider vital to their homes, and the span of time between the invention of each of those things is....pretty wide. Accepting that these things were needed was very gradual, and for every thing you've listed there are 1000 that I'm sure the inventor wanted to be just as vital but are not.
If this is the bar, I agree with you guys. If room-scale winds up being as popular and viewed by the general public as being as necessary as the washing machine, then I defer that most people wont mind shifting some things around for that. I think you're assuming the result just a little bit though.
I said none of those things. I am saying that we make permanent space for lots of things today that we didn't used to in the past. Virtually everything in your living space, besides your bed, was something invented in the past 150 years and needed space to be made for it. If it is something people find desirable enough, the space will get made.
People without a lot of free time are not in any way the target audience for almost every leisure activity, other than maybe television.
Asking the average person to dedicate a small room (or a small room's worth of space) to VR is a bit much this early in the game. If VR gains a lot of mainstream appeal and room scale really is where it's all at, then yeah, sure, a generation or two from now people may assume that by buying into VR they'll need the space for it as well. But that isn't the case right now. This is kind of what I mean by false equivalence.
Where we are at right now it's perfectly acceptable for someone without the space to still want to get into VR as there are plenty of experiences that don't require it. This in no way compares to any of your other examples.
Apathy can work both ways. Too lazy to move the couch/table away, or maybe too lazy to move it back.
So I think I may pull the trigger on the new pair of glasses I was trying out before work. I'll be going from 54-18-145-32 alternate fit (higher nose pads so it's further from my face) to 52-16-140-33 standard fit. If nothing else, these should actually fit in my GearVR unlike my current pair from testing it at the store. Yeah I'll have to deal with eyelash marks more, but that's gonna be a thing no matter what. Better it's on a cheap pair of glasses that I can wipe easily than a HMD.
Theoretical 30 day return policy also means I should have like half a month to exchange it if it turns out they also somehow don't fit.
I said none of those things. I am saying that we make permanent space for lots of things today that we didn't used to in the past. Virtually everything in your living space, besides your bed, was something invented in the past 150 years and needed space to be made for it. If it is something people find desirable enough, the space will get made.
You realize you're setting a pretty high bar right? You've listed several of the major components that most people consider vital to their homes, and the span of time between the invention of each of those things is....pretty wide. Accepting that these things were needed was very gradual, and for every thing you've listed there are 1000 that I'm sure the inventor wanted to be just as vital but are not.
If this is the bar, I agree with you guys. If room-scale winds up being as popular and viewed by the general public as being as necessary as the washing machine, then I defer that most people wont mind shifting some things around for that. I think you're assuming the result just a little bit though.
What I personally, just me, am saying is that a lot of things people use for entertainment take up space. Televisions, to computers, stereos...ect...ect. These things all take up space, some have entire rooms dedicated to them. How much space a person dedicates to a thing is up to them. Some people buy 70 inch flat screens and set up theater rooms, some people choose not to have televisions. Some people have entire rooms dedicated to collecting stuff. Some people have pool tables. I store a 15' fishing kayak inside my apartment and have a closet full of gear. It's not unreasonable at all to think there's plenty of people who will be willing to make space for VR. In lots of living rooms there's already enough space for Playstation VR.
The space needed is not some insurmountable hurdle for a lot of people. Like anything else if something is desirable enough to a person, they will make room in their lives for it.
I said none of those things. I am saying that we make permanent space for lots of things today that we didn't used to in the past. Virtually everything in your living space, besides your bed, was something invented in the past 150 years and needed space to be made for it. If it is something people find desirable enough, the space will get made.
You realize you're setting a pretty high bar right? You've listed several of the major components that most people consider vital to their homes, and the span of time between the invention of each of those things is....pretty wide. Accepting that these things were needed was very gradual, and for every thing you've listed there are 1000 that I'm sure the inventor wanted to be just as vital but are not.
If this is the bar, I agree with you guys. If room-scale winds up being as popular and viewed by the general public as being as necessary as the washing machine, then I defer that most people wont mind shifting some things around for that. I think you're assuming the result just a little bit though.
What I personally, just me, am saying is that a lot of things people use for entertainment take up space. Televisions, to computers, stereos...ect...ect. These things all take up space, some have entire rooms dedicated to them. How much space a person dedicates to a thing is up to them. Some people buy 70 inch flat screens and set up theater rooms, some people choose not to have televisions. Some people have entire rooms dedicated to collecting stuff. Some people have pool tables. I store a 15' fishing kayak inside my apartment and have a closet full of gear. It's not unreasonable at all to think there's plenty of people who will be willing to make space for VR. In lots of living rooms there's already enough space for Playstation VR.
The space needed is not some insurmountable hurdle for a lot of people. Like anything else if something is desirable enough to a person, they will make room in their lives for it.
Then we really don't disagree that much. What I personally, just me, have been saying, is that it's a barrier to entry. I never said it was insurmountable; your attitude up to this point has come off as dismissing it as a concern entirely. It is a thing. It's a thing for me. I know it may not come off that way, but I'm tempted to buy a Vive. I see a pretty small catalog of room-scale games, and a pretty decent amount of space required to enjoy playing them. For some reason, several of those in the thread want to dismiss this as a concern entirely. My Rift ships in July; I may very well wind up with a Vive before that happens. The Vive currently costs $200 more than the Rift, and while I know it includes touch controls, those are pretty synonymous with roomscale games on the Vive right now. I want to believe, but I don't see why it's so crazy to raise the issue of fairly substantial space requirements being a possible barrier to entry which could result in room-scale not "breaking through" over the next couple of years.
And it seems HTC wants to charge me tax, while Oculus is cool not to. The US tax code is dumb.
Apathy can work both ways. Too lazy to move the couch/table away, or maybe too lazy to move it back.
Oh sure, if I lived alone. I've never felt like I've been in a situation while living with anyone else that I could get away with moving around a shared space and not have to move it back afterwards. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone's situation, but neither does having to rearrange anything to do room scale to begin with. I think it's fair to say there's some people where room scale just isn't gonna work out well and calling someone lazy and gross for it is well, uncalled for.
I said none of those things. I am saying that we make permanent space for lots of things today that we didn't used to in the past. Virtually everything in your living space, besides your bed, was something invented in the past 150 years and needed space to be made for it. If it is something people find desirable enough, the space will get made.
You realize you're setting a pretty high bar right? You've listed several of the major components that most people consider vital to their homes, and the span of time between the invention of each of those things is....pretty wide. Accepting that these things were needed was very gradual, and for every thing you've listed there are 1000 that I'm sure the inventor wanted to be just as vital but are not.
If this is the bar, I agree with you guys. If room-scale winds up being as popular and viewed by the general public as being as necessary as the washing machine, then I defer that most people wont mind shifting some things around for that. I think you're assuming the result just a little bit though.
What I personally, just me, am saying is that a lot of things people use for entertainment take up space. Televisions, to computers, stereos...ect...ect. These things all take up space, some have entire rooms dedicated to them. How much space a person dedicates to a thing is up to them. Some people buy 70 inch flat screens and set up theater rooms, some people choose not to have televisions. Some people have entire rooms dedicated to collecting stuff. Some people have pool tables. I store a 15' fishing kayak inside my apartment and have a closet full of gear. It's not unreasonable at all to think there's plenty of people who will be willing to make space for VR. In lots of living rooms there's already enough space for Playstation VR.
The space needed is not some insurmountable hurdle for a lot of people. Like anything else if something is desirable enough to a person, they will make room in their lives for it.
Yeah, I don't think we're really in disagreement here. If you really want to do a hobby you can probably find a way to make it work. This isn't really an argument about VR space in general, just room scale specifically. I think it's pretty safe to assume a lot more people can quickly make room for a standing experience. PSVR is, as far as I can tell, strictly sitting/standing, so they're banking on that too, especially in the living room. If someone really wants room scale, they'll figure it out, but if it's not that compelling to someone then it's not worth the effort. They can enjoy VR either way, and that should be fine. I think there might have been some confusion since there were a couple conversations going on here generally related to the issue of space, but yeah, I don't think you're wrong here. I mean I don't think VR space is comparable to things like cars, refrigerators, washing machines, or the like, but it's definitely hobby space.
8 hours left to pay $0.20 minimum or whatever to this humble bundle to play an alpha version of giant cop then get a coupon to buy giant cop for $15 whenever it comes out instead of $30
8 hours left to pay $0.20 minimum or whatever to this humble bundle to play an alpha version of giant cop then get a coupon to buy giant cop for $15 whenever it comes out instead of $30
Someone on reddit posted a write up of the headsets after using all three of them at GDC. It's worth reading the full article for the nuance, but he sums it up by saying:
"tl;dr: Roomscale is simply amazing, and I'm convinced it'll be big. Because of this I think the Vive has a huge advantage right out of the gate. I do prefer Oculus' headset however, and until this morning I had no idea that the Touch controllers were as great as they are. PSVR was lackluster. (at least for me)"
Also comments on the Screen Door Effect being more noticeable on the Vive than the Rift, as well as the different locomotion methods being used in room scale.
As time goes on, I really wish either the Vive or the Rift just sucked. I know this is better for the health of the industry, but it would make my decision a lot easier. This isn't the first article I've seen that indicates the Touch controls are going to be the more satisfying long term solution (and if you look at the Oculus preview videos from GDC, it's pretty apparent they're going to do a better job of emulating your hand than the Vive wands do), but it's also really obvious that the Vive has better roomscale support, and developers are finding awesome ways to implement the wand controllers. Not fair.
Yeah, it's just dumb that the touch is delayed. If Rift ends up being 99% Xbox controller games it'll be a travesty.
And I wonder if we're going to look back in a year and say that Oculus was really really dumb for not getting a few hundred CV1s out to popular streamers and big gaming websites. I spent some time watching a few of the Youtubers playing with their Vive Pres, and a weirdly large amount spend the beginning of the video directly comparing the Vive Pre to the DK2 (but just calling it "the Rift"), and trashing the DK2 for not being up to snuff. It's a completely unfair comparison, but their viewers don't care. Oculus really only has themselves to blame though.
We may just look at it as a blip on the radar, but the winds of the internet are behind the Vive and it's not even really close right now.
Fiatil on
0
Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
I'm not sure if I want to just jumped on PSVR and smash refresh on Amazon to get a wave 1 preorder.
Or
Wait a year and see where the dust settles and then make my purchase.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The second is what we all should do, the first is what a lot of us did and are doing with the other headsets. So there's that.
0
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
edited March 2016
Tested has some interesting stuff on both headsets. One thing talked about was Job Simulator, which doesn't interest me at all, but the question came up about the space for roomscale, the difference in touch controls and 360 degree tracking.
It honestly sounds like Vive and Rift are nearly identical in capabilities, it's just the Vive will have a head start on everything working out of the box.
Based on other reviews, I'm sticking with the Rift. In the end, it'll do everything the Vive does, but is a little more comfortable and a little more refined.
I'm also okay with waiting on the Touch controllers since cockpit sims are my #1 desired games to play in VR and I have a wheel and just ordered a HOTAS setup.
EDIT: After watching some review videos, I'm also considering moving all extraneous furniture out of my computer room and setting up roomscale in there. I didn't want to, but I think it'll be worth it.
Nova_C on
+1
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
im only getting vr to simulate being a potato and both headsets work very well for emulating the crosshatched darkness of a rough canvas bag
+3
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Yeah, it's just dumb that the touch is delayed. If Rift ends up being 99% Xbox controller games it'll be a travesty.
And I wonder if we're going to look back in a year and say that Oculus was really really dumb for not getting a few hundred CV1s out to popular streamers and big gaming websites. I spent some time watching a few of the Youtubers playing with their Vive Pres, and a weirdly large amount spend the beginning of the video directly comparing the Vive Pre to the DK2 (but just calling it "the Rift"), and trashing the DK2 for not being up to snuff. It's a completely unfair comparison, but their viewers don't care. Oculus really only has themselves to blame though.
We may just look at it as a blip on the radar, but the winds of the internet are behind the Vive and it's not even really close right now.
I mostly agree, Vive has been getting some great PR and a lot of this is because Oculus has messed up. On the other hand, Rifts are sold out through July. Oculus Rift has been pretty synonymous with VR and it still is aside from some internet communities. I'm not sure how long it'll stay that way (the gap is closing) but you're right, one headset is still more popular. It just happens to still be the Rift. I mean Youtubers obviously have some pull but I think the major thing is that you're not seeing the Rift on the front page of the Steam store, ya know?
But if you're worried about the Rift CV1 not getting a customer base, I wouldn't fret, especially this early in the game.
We won't know the impact of this possible Rift misstep till next year. If their controller finally comes out and it is noticeably better for gaming than the Vive, it was probably a good call. If it's only a minor upgrade or none, I believe they really screwed up not going all in at the beginning with room scale and proper VR controllers.
Posts
There's quite a few people that use Voice Attack for voice commands in things like Elite. I mean you're not totally controlling the game with your voice but things like landing gears, jumping, etc, are all pretty nice to haves. I mean it's all sort of a preference thing, I have more than enough sticks and toggles on my HOTAS. But I can see in VR where I can't physically look down at it that voice might be a better option for a few things. It won't work for all games but I can see it being a cool supplement.
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2016/03/18/ps-vr-bundle-pre-orders-start-tuesday
http://www.voiceattack.com/
It's a fantastic add-on; I use it all the time in Elite to do things like request docking permissions from a station, or jump to another star, "Rig for silent running," etc.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
I know I said it, but lazy is probably not the right word. Apathy is closer. People have gotten into a pretty uniform way of consuming entertainment over the years. By all means, shake up the status quo, hopefully it'll be awesome enough to make people want to try something different. But there are loads and loads of examples from all over that it's really hard to get people to change out of their routine.
This new tech is asking people to completely redecorate and cater solely to it. That is going to be a real hard sell, regardless of how awesome it is.
And making offhand comments of "I guess you're too lazy to wash your face before using VR" is not going to help your sales pitch. Just ask Google Glass and the "Glasshole" demographic.
Literally(not literally) you.
shifting focus: Paranormal Activity VR
Find out your 'wave' and shipping date. 1 - 888 - 216 - 4736. Have order number and provided email ready.
"Yes you are part of the fourst wave shipping order your order will ship by April 5th."
".... first wave? You're saying the first?"
"Yes you are in the fourst wave shipping."
.... dang accents scaring me. Anyways yay I'm first wave~ Also hear first wave might send out on April first, to arrive on the fifth. And that second wave consist of people ordering 10+ minutes after preorders started, and is shipping out the second half of April. who knows really. after hearing the accent of fourst = first, I wouldn't be surprised if someone misunderstood april fifth as the first. edit- whoaaaa.... ninja edit. congrats on the first wave stuff and yeah it's probably shipping the fifth arriving soon after.
... oh crap. this was bad. now my anticipation is overflowing fffffffffff
Edit: Just called that number, she confirmed I'm in the first wave but specifically said shipping would start on the 5th and the shipping is 2 business days. My confirmation email is 3 minutes after launch, so hopefully I have it on the 7th.
Inquisitor77: Rius, you are Sisyphus and melee Wizard is your boulder
Tube: This must be what it felt like to be an Iraqi when Saddam was killed
Bookish Stickers - Mrs. Rius' Etsy shop with bumper stickers and vinyl decals.
I would say do not put any stock in anything they tell you. Even something as simple as changing order details they are getting wrong.
You really don't see the false equivalence in this?
Not really?....TV, living room radio, refrigerator, washing machines, cars....ect. These all needed space to be made for them and rearranging how we set up our living space.
Yes, great. And these are all things you make space for (generally) once.
The argument has been people who do not have a permanent space for room scale. These are people that would need to make the space EACH time they want to perform that activity. This is like having to clean out your garage every time you want to park your car. Chances are if your garage is packed you just end up parking your car out on the street.
If you have a dedicated room or space for it, yes, that's great! I'm happy for you, but don't assume everyone else does. And while this doesn't apply to you specifically, saying that someone is lazy because they don't want to spend 10 minutes rearranging their room when they have a grand total of 60 minutes of time they can dedicate to gaming is pretty awful. It just means they want to be able to spend their free time how they want.
plus 12% tax
Isn't this stuff supposed to be cheaper than a PC!?
People without a lot of free time are not in any way the target audience for almost every leisure activity, other than maybe television.
You realize you're setting a pretty high bar right? You've listed several of the major components that most people consider vital to their homes, and the span of time between the invention of each of those things is....pretty wide. Accepting that these things were needed was very gradual, and for every thing you've listed there are 1000 that I'm sure the inventor wanted to be just as vital but are not.
If this is the bar, I agree with you guys. If room-scale winds up being as popular and viewed by the general public as being as necessary as the washing machine, then I defer that most people wont mind shifting some things around for that. I think you're assuming the result just a little bit though.
Asking the average person to dedicate a small room (or a small room's worth of space) to VR is a bit much this early in the game. If VR gains a lot of mainstream appeal and room scale really is where it's all at, then yeah, sure, a generation or two from now people may assume that by buying into VR they'll need the space for it as well. But that isn't the case right now. This is kind of what I mean by false equivalence.
Where we are at right now it's perfectly acceptable for someone without the space to still want to get into VR as there are plenty of experiences that don't require it. This in no way compares to any of your other examples.
So I think I may pull the trigger on the new pair of glasses I was trying out before work. I'll be going from 54-18-145-32 alternate fit (higher nose pads so it's further from my face) to 52-16-140-33 standard fit. If nothing else, these should actually fit in my GearVR unlike my current pair from testing it at the store. Yeah I'll have to deal with eyelash marks more, but that's gonna be a thing no matter what. Better it's on a cheap pair of glasses that I can wipe easily than a HMD.
Theoretical 30 day return policy also means I should have like half a month to exchange it if it turns out they also somehow don't fit.
Switch: US 1651-2551-4335 JP 6310-4664-2624
MH3U Monster Cheat Sheet / MH3U Veggie Elder Ticket Guide
What I personally, just me, am saying is that a lot of things people use for entertainment take up space. Televisions, to computers, stereos...ect...ect. These things all take up space, some have entire rooms dedicated to them. How much space a person dedicates to a thing is up to them. Some people buy 70 inch flat screens and set up theater rooms, some people choose not to have televisions. Some people have entire rooms dedicated to collecting stuff. Some people have pool tables. I store a 15' fishing kayak inside my apartment and have a closet full of gear. It's not unreasonable at all to think there's plenty of people who will be willing to make space for VR. In lots of living rooms there's already enough space for Playstation VR.
The space needed is not some insurmountable hurdle for a lot of people. Like anything else if something is desirable enough to a person, they will make room in their lives for it.
Then we really don't disagree that much. What I personally, just me, have been saying, is that it's a barrier to entry. I never said it was insurmountable; your attitude up to this point has come off as dismissing it as a concern entirely. It is a thing. It's a thing for me. I know it may not come off that way, but I'm tempted to buy a Vive. I see a pretty small catalog of room-scale games, and a pretty decent amount of space required to enjoy playing them. For some reason, several of those in the thread want to dismiss this as a concern entirely. My Rift ships in July; I may very well wind up with a Vive before that happens. The Vive currently costs $200 more than the Rift, and while I know it includes touch controls, those are pretty synonymous with roomscale games on the Vive right now. I want to believe, but I don't see why it's so crazy to raise the issue of fairly substantial space requirements being a possible barrier to entry which could result in room-scale not "breaking through" over the next couple of years.
And it seems HTC wants to charge me tax, while Oculus is cool not to. The US tax code is dumb.
Oh sure, if I lived alone. I've never felt like I've been in a situation while living with anyone else that I could get away with moving around a shared space and not have to move it back afterwards. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone's situation, but neither does having to rearrange anything to do room scale to begin with. I think it's fair to say there's some people where room scale just isn't gonna work out well and calling someone lazy and gross for it is well, uncalled for.
Yeah, I don't think we're really in disagreement here. If you really want to do a hobby you can probably find a way to make it work. This isn't really an argument about VR space in general, just room scale specifically. I think it's pretty safe to assume a lot more people can quickly make room for a standing experience. PSVR is, as far as I can tell, strictly sitting/standing, so they're banking on that too, especially in the living room. If someone really wants room scale, they'll figure it out, but if it's not that compelling to someone then it's not worth the effort. They can enjoy VR either way, and that should be fine. I think there might have been some confusion since there were a couple conversations going on here generally related to the issue of space, but yeah, I don't think you're wrong here. I mean I don't think VR space is comparable to things like cars, refrigerators, washing machines, or the like, but it's definitely hobby space.
https://www.humblebundle.com/mix-digital-preview-ticket
Nevermind!
"tl;dr: Roomscale is simply amazing, and I'm convinced it'll be big. Because of this I think the Vive has a huge advantage right out of the gate. I do prefer Oculus' headset however, and until this morning I had no idea that the Touch controllers were as great as they are. PSVR was lackluster. (at least for me)"
Also comments on the Screen Door Effect being more noticeable on the Vive than the Rift, as well as the different locomotion methods being used in room scale.
As time goes on, I really wish either the Vive or the Rift just sucked. I know this is better for the health of the industry, but it would make my decision a lot easier. This isn't the first article I've seen that indicates the Touch controls are going to be the more satisfying long term solution (and if you look at the Oculus preview videos from GDC, it's pretty apparent they're going to do a better job of emulating your hand than the Vive wands do), but it's also really obvious that the Vive has better roomscale support, and developers are finding awesome ways to implement the wand controllers. Not fair.
And I wonder if we're going to look back in a year and say that Oculus was really really dumb for not getting a few hundred CV1s out to popular streamers and big gaming websites. I spent some time watching a few of the Youtubers playing with their Vive Pres, and a weirdly large amount spend the beginning of the video directly comparing the Vive Pre to the DK2 (but just calling it "the Rift"), and trashing the DK2 for not being up to snuff. It's a completely unfair comparison, but their viewers don't care. Oculus really only has themselves to blame though.
We may just look at it as a blip on the radar, but the winds of the internet are behind the Vive and it's not even really close right now.
Or
Wait a year and see where the dust settles and then make my purchase.
It honestly sounds like Vive and Rift are nearly identical in capabilities, it's just the Vive will have a head start on everything working out of the box.
Based on other reviews, I'm sticking with the Rift. In the end, it'll do everything the Vive does, but is a little more comfortable and a little more refined.
I'm also okay with waiting on the Touch controllers since cockpit sims are my #1 desired games to play in VR and I have a wheel and just ordered a HOTAS setup.
EDIT: After watching some review videos, I'm also considering moving all extraneous furniture out of my computer room and setting up roomscale in there. I didn't want to, but I think it'll be worth it.
Portal 2 VR confirmed.
To be fair, most of us are potatoes already
Flawless @surrealitycheck comment
I mostly agree, Vive has been getting some great PR and a lot of this is because Oculus has messed up. On the other hand, Rifts are sold out through July. Oculus Rift has been pretty synonymous with VR and it still is aside from some internet communities. I'm not sure how long it'll stay that way (the gap is closing) but you're right, one headset is still more popular. It just happens to still be the Rift. I mean Youtubers obviously have some pull but I think the major thing is that you're not seeing the Rift on the front page of the Steam store, ya know?
But if you're worried about the Rift CV1 not getting a customer base, I wouldn't fret, especially this early in the game.
all that together is cheaper then the Vive or the monster PC needed to run it.
And 5% tax. Welcome to Alberta.