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[Kerbal Space Program] Shiny new thread! Desperately seeking pictures of rockets

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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Satsumomo wrote: »
    So strange, I'm using 4.6.4 and I'm not getting any crashes, I've also used the unfixer. I think one of your mods must be causing this.

    Realchutes says it isn't compatible, but people on reddit have told me it works just fine, but I haven't tried it myself.

    No, I got RealChutes working.

    I guess that's certainly possible, though what mod I'll have a hell of a time figuring out--a lot of them are, by design, not testing with 64-bit unity.

    I doubt it'd be any of my parts mods, which helps, but that doesn't narrow it down too much. Of the game mechanic mods I have running in the back grounds, I'm mostly thinking of Deadly Reentry, IFI Life Support, and the Radio Communications mod--it might be one of those. Could also be the multi-function display screen mod (I'm at work or I'd check). I've heard FAR can cause rampant crashing in conjunction with other mods, but I don't have that installed presently. Hmmm...oh well.

    Also, still got the empty parts bin mod, but that's fixable just by going back to the spaceport screen and reentering your facility of choice.

  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    So close:
    wtrtgmdus5he.png

    But clipping the top of the building behind the walkway led to this
    9tiqg96fqacu.png

    [edit]

    Conversely, if you pull up a tad too early it's bad for the pilot. Real bad.

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Veevee wrote: »
    Oh. My. God.

    Just did the 64-bit install, then went and added my mods. All 80 or so of them. 4767 ModuleManager patches later and, well, look at it

    f9qtnt6d1ezb.png

    I... I don't know what to do here, guys. This is all- it's just so sudden.

    Spoiler'd for huge
    dpolo6noqxx9.jpg

    Haha, same for here--though I've only used the basic cloud mod, I really ought to get a new ground texture mod. What're you using?

    Also, what version of Unity are people using for 64-bit? I'm using 4.6.4--it does the job, but I do get a hard freeze every ~20 minutes of so of gameplay.

    Thats the new KSPRC. As you can see, it looks really good.

  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    Yeeeeeee Haw! Motherfuckers!

    69nj0ujxw6db.png

    Time to go back to flying space ships. I guess.

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  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister It Gets Worse before it gets any better.Registered User regular
    GUYS I DID A MUN FLYBY BEFORE WORK THIS MORNING IT WAS AWWWEEESSSOOOOMMMEEEE.

    I toyed with the idea of landing, briefly, but decided that I should maybe send an un-kerbed probe first, rather than risk the lives of my brave kerbalnauts.

  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    A couple questions.

    So far I've been playing vanilla and I like just doing seat of the pants engineering and trying things out but if I'm going to be returning to Duna maybe I should try to be a bit more systematic than build -- launch -- revert -- repeat as necessary. I think that on one of the GB videos Vinny had Kerbal Engineer. Seems like that would provide some acceleration and delta v info. Is that the mod to use? And what texture mod would people recommend?


    Also, has anyone else taken to using combo solid fuel rockets/ drop tanks like so? Is it a terrible idea?
    91gq2am64kem.png

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  • InfamyDeferredInfamyDeferred Registered User regular
    Iirc, fuel lines create a lot of drag so you need to either ditch them before you get going fast or get a whole lot of benefit from them.

    Metzger, go for a Minmus landing first. It's harder to get to with the inclination, but the low gravity makes landing and return take almost no fuel and the flat parts are perfectly flat. Just be careful on reentry as you're gonna get real hot. F5 saves and F9 loads.

  • FoomyFoomy Registered User regular
    Kerbal Engineer or Mechjeb are both good for providing info on things like DV,TWR,stage weights, etc.

    Personally I prefer Mechjeb for info as it has more information overall and is more customizable, you can just ignore it's other functions. But if you just want some simple facts Kerbal Engineer is fine.

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  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited January 2016
    I will often to a SLS stype launcher with a pair of solid boosters on the other axis. Generally it's only worth 200-500 ΔV when the launcher is already getting me 4000, but you could probably double it if you design the SLS more efficiently than I care to.

    If you do use the solid boosters, adjust their thrust in the VAB so they do burn longer. If you have a mod to see the ΔVs, the sweet spot for a launch is a Thrust to Weight Ratio (TWR) of ~2.0

    Edit: And yeah, I prefer mechjeb as well, but this mod is essential for either http://www.curse.com/ksp-mods/kerbal/221500-mechjeb-and-engineer-for-all

    The reason I like mechjeb isn't for the autopilot stuff (To be fair, that stuff does make it the best mod of all), but the customizable windows you can also have up. It will let you know EVERYTHING you could possible want to know while in the flight screen. All the ship, orbit, surface, target/rendezvous information you could ever want, and more.

    Veevee on
  • InfamyDeferredInfamyDeferred Registered User regular
    I tend to go closer to 1.6 twr, I find it makes gravity turns easiest

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    I tend to go closer to 1.6 twr, I find it makes gravity turns easiest

    True, but I have a tendency to Jeb it up and take a more aggressive turn than I probably should which the extra power helps me from Jebing it too much.

  • crimsoncoyotecrimsoncoyote Registered User regular
    Your use of "jeb" in context is the opposite of its real meaning ;-)

  • DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    The big benefit of solid boosters is they provide a very high TWR when you most need it, right at the pad. Your liquid core is full of heavy fuel and its TWR is the lowest it will ever be. So the solids boost it off the pad and by the time they separate, you've burned off enough LFO that the core stage has a much more favorable TWR.

    Sticking drop tanks atop the solids is extremely tricky to balance so they empty out just before separation. Empty too early, you're lugging empty tanks around, too late, the fuel is wasted. And then you're back to having a core stage with minimal TWR at booster sep.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    The big benefit of solid boosters is they provide a very high TWR when you most need it, right at the pad. Your liquid core is full of heavy fuel and its TWR is the lowest it will ever be. So the solids boost it off the pad and by the time they separate, you've burned off enough LFO that the core stage has a much more favorable TWR.

    Sticking drop tanks atop the solids is extremely tricky to balance so they empty out just before separation. Empty too early, you're lugging empty tanks around, too late, the fuel is wasted. And then you're back to having a core stage with minimal TWR at booster sep.

    Basically I run my main liquid fuel engine at 100% at launch till say 100m/s and then throttle down so that the tanks empty at the same time the boosters burn out but the engine still provides a bit of steering.

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  • DivideByZeroDivideByZero Social Justice Blackguard Registered User regular
    That's definitely viable, but: If your engine isn't going 100%, the ascent is taking longer than it needs to, fighting gravity longer. You might end up burning more fuel to counteract gravity losses than the tanks give you.

    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKERS
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    On the gripping hand, if you run your engines at 100% the whole way, you are probably hitting terminal velocity at some point and taking bad losses to drag...

  • SupraluminalSupraluminal Registered User regular
    On the gripping hand, if you run your engines at 100% the whole way, you are probably hitting terminal velocity at some point and taking bad losses to drag...

    I don't know about stock aero, but with FAR there's basically no chance of hitting terminal velocity without a crazy TWR. People vastly overestimate the impact of going fast during launch.

    As DBZ notes, an engine running at less than 100% for a substantial length of time is, in essence, partially dead weight. You could use a smaller engine, carry more fuel, or use the higher TWR to make orbit faster (especially on vacuum bodies).

    Bear in mind that dV isn't everything - the longer you spend firing rocket exhaust downwards instead of sideways, the more fuel you waste.

  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited January 2016
    Sticking drop tanks atop the solids is extremely tricky to balance so they empty out just before separation. Empty too early, you're lugging empty tanks around, too late, the fuel is wasted. And then you're back to having a core stage with minimal TWR at booster sep.

    Not difficult at all with mechjeb. Now, you could do a liquid fuel engine here and just do an onion/asparagus design, but sometimes you just don't feel like doing it the easy way. Assuming the booster will burn through it's fuel before the fuel tank it's attached to empties, the trick then is to find the highest thrust percentage on the boosters that keeps stage 1 and 2 at their default burn times. Also, this trick only works if you keep the liquid engine running at 100% through the full stage 1 burn.

    Take a Central tank and two tanks connected radially, with a solid booster underneath and connected to the central tank with fuel lines. Stage it so the solid engines and the liquid engine ignite in stage one, and stage 2 will be the radial sepratrons. Looking at the mechjeb ΔV display, stage 1 will be the readout for both solid and liquid engines while stage 2 is just the liquid engine after the liquid tank the booster is connected to empties. Right click the solid booster and adjust the thrust level, and as you do so look at the burn time readings. As you adjust the thrust you shouldn't see any change in the stage 1 burn time until you have the thrust too low so the solid engine continues to burn after the liquid tank it's attached to runs out. At this point you'll also see the stage 2 burn time decrease.

    Alternatively, just use an inline sepratron to remove the solid booster after it's done. Assuming it won't fall into something below it, of course.
    Your use of "jeb" in context is the opposite of its real meaning ;-)

    Unless I was talking about a certain John Elias Bush :wink:
    No. No I wasn't. :(

    Veevee on
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    On the gripping hand, if you run your engines at 100% the whole way, you are probably hitting terminal velocity at some point and taking bad losses to drag...

    This hasn't been an issue since they redid the aero.

  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    I kind of knew that, with the new atmosphere model, drag wasn't as big an issue but I do have trouble keeping control with gravity turns at very high speed.

    Maybe for my next next lifter, I'll try to balance the liquid fuel capacity and SRB burn to be equal with the main engine at 100%. Seems like just the kind of nonsense that would keep me occupied for a bit.

    Thanks for the insight, everyone.

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  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Just do your gravity turn in smaller, more frequent increments.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    So, my first time using the Renaissance Project---I have to say it's damn impressive.

    Still can't determine the cause of my crashes, but I have the absurd number of mods. Is there any way to bring up a crash event log after a hard freeze?

  • EvigilantEvigilant VARegistered User regular
    Getting back into the game in prep for 1.1. Some shots of my Munar Surface Probe:

    Top tank is fuel reserves, and for whatever reason, the toroidal fuel tank was priority. So in order to ensure that there was enough fuel at landing, I had to regularly transfer fuel from the reserve to the toroidal during the descent burn.
    ScII9Lm.png?1

    Here you can see one of the instruments I'm bringing along: A small surface camera. On the backside is a surface composition scanner. The sepatrons will ensure that once the reserve tanks are empty to lift away from the rest of the lander.
    2oV2QFD.png?1

    Reserve empty and gone. Here's the lander in the final stages of descent.
    I8VFisU.png?1

    Can't screw this up now...
    3gbHfZ8.png?1

    Bingo!
    VMjjxRz.png?1

    There is still enough reserve fuel for at least an attempt to ascend, re-position, and land at another location; albeit, a very nearby location.

    XBL\PSN\Steam\Origin: Evigilant
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Those landing legs are stunning

  • EvigilantEvigilant VARegistered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Those landing legs are stunning
    They're from the FASA mod pack that gives you both Mercury, Gemini and Apollo parts.

    XBL\PSN\Steam\Origin: Evigilant
  • SatsumomoSatsumomo Rated PG! Registered User regular
    Ooh the new KSPRC is out? Downloadin' later today.

  • SupraluminalSupraluminal Registered User regular
    I kind of knew that, with the new atmosphere model, drag wasn't as big an issue but I do have trouble keeping control with gravity turns at very high speed.

    Maybe for my next next lifter, I'll try to balance the liquid fuel capacity and SRB burn to be equal with the main engine at 100%. Seems like just the kind of nonsense that would keep me occupied for a bit.

    Thanks for the insight, everyone.

    If you want to do an efficient gravity turn on a body with atmosphere, yeah, you may need to keep your TWR from getting too high. (It depends on the aerodynamics of your craft and the characteristics of the atmosphere in question, but on Kerbin it seems like a TWR of 2 is typically as high as you want to be starting out with.) In our scenario above, then, you could add fuel or use smaller engines rather than run an overly-large engine at less than full throttle.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    I think a mistake a lot of players make when designing their rockets is deciding the size of rocket they want to make and then building the payload around that. Your payload should inform your rocket selection. Just because you have 2.5m parts does not mean you need them, and you may be spending a lot of fuel just to lift lots of fuel and heavy engines.

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I think a mistake a lot of players make when designing their rockets is deciding the size of rocket they want to make and then building the payload around that. Your payload should inform your rocket selection. Just because you have 2.5m parts does not mean you need them, and you may be spending a lot of fuel just to lift lots of fuel and heavy engines.

    Poodle is a pretty sexy third-stage engine though, giving you good gimbal, excellent fuel efficiency and more thrust than 4 Terriers.
    I love it for powering my Soyuz spacecraft equivalents (station docking and Object Grabbing) or various large load landers (mobile labs, miner/refueler craft).

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I think a mistake a lot of players make when designing their rockets is deciding the size of rocket they want to make and then building the payload around that. Your payload should inform your rocket selection. Just because you have 2.5m parts does not mean you need them, and you may be spending a lot of fuel just to lift lots of fuel and heavy engines.

    One thing that annoys me is that the 2.5m parts seem less efficient than the smaller ones, at least in the vanilla game. The weight per kerbal in pods, especially so.

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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I think a mistake a lot of players make when designing their rockets is deciding the size of rocket they want to make and then building the payload around that. Your payload should inform your rocket selection. Just because you have 2.5m parts does not mean you need them, and you may be spending a lot of fuel just to lift lots of fuel and heavy engines.

    The whole point of subassemblies, I always felt, was to encourage people to design a few launch vehicles for multiple jobs, and use them over and over again (you can do that stock, but K&W is particularly good for this). Use your 1.25-m launch vehicle for tiny satellites in low orbit, your 2.5-m for large payloads in low orbit or small satellites around Mun or Minmas, etc.

  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    I kind of knew that, with the new atmosphere model, drag wasn't as big an issue but I do have trouble keeping control with gravity turns at very high speed.

    Maybe for my next next lifter, I'll try to balance the liquid fuel capacity and SRB burn to be equal with the main engine at 100%. Seems like just the kind of nonsense that would keep me occupied for a bit.

    Thanks for the insight, everyone.

    The main concern is to keep the center of mass ahead of the center of drag. Put a bunch of tail fins on the bottom of the rocket and keep as much weight towards the top as possible.

  • SupraluminalSupraluminal Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I think a mistake a lot of players make when designing their rockets is deciding the size of rocket they want to make and then building the payload around that. Your payload should inform your rocket selection. Just because you have 2.5m parts does not mean you need them, and you may be spending a lot of fuel just to lift lots of fuel and heavy engines.

    The whole point of subassemblies, I always felt, was to encourage people to design a few launch vehicles for multiple jobs, and use them over and over again (you can do that stock, but K&W is particularly good for this). Use your 1.25-m launch vehicle for tiny satellites in low orbit, your 2.5-m for large payloads in low orbit or small satellites around Mun or Minmas, etc.

    I wish working with subassemblies wasn't such a giant pain in the dick. The UI sucks and it seems like they never keep an attachment node where I actually want it.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    I think a mistake a lot of players make when designing their rockets is deciding the size of rocket they want to make and then building the payload around that. Your payload should inform your rocket selection. Just because you have 2.5m parts does not mean you need them, and you may be spending a lot of fuel just to lift lots of fuel and heavy engines.

    The whole point of subassemblies, I always felt, was to encourage people to design a few launch vehicles for multiple jobs, and use them over and over again (you can do that stock, but K&W is particularly good for this). Use your 1.25-m launch vehicle for tiny satellites in low orbit, your 2.5-m for large payloads in low orbit or small satellites around Mun or Minmas, etc.

    I wish working with subassemblies wasn't such a giant pain in the dick. The UI sucks and it seems like they never keep an attachment node where I actually want it.

    I've "mastered" it to the point where my only complaint is how sub-assemblies invariably fuck up their own staging order with your existing vehicle design, but I don't know how you'd fix that otherwise.

  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    edited January 2016
    So, I just discovered this Kerbal Planetary Base Systems mod, completely by accident while looking for something else, and the parts in there are really well done, so I decided to use them for a Duna mission.

    The mission plan here is to send three separate craft in a sort of convoy to Duna: the base and the lander both are getting a one-way, unmanned trip, and the crew vehicle will do a round trip. The lander and crew vehicle will rendezvous in Dunian orbit, crew will transfer to the lander and then land at the base. This is vaguely similar to how the NASA Copernicus concept was supposed to work.

    The base modules and lander module each get boring, cheap chemical engines that I'll dispose of at Duna. For the crew vehicle, I'm using two VASIMR engines, powered by some gigantic solar panels. I considered using a nuclear reactor instead, but they're just so damned expensive! So I'll need to make do with less thrust; the solar panels are only netting me 200 EC/s total.
    MPb3FOr.png

    The crew vehicle is launched unmanned, of course, since there's no way to abort a failed launch. The mission crew of 4 is sent to Kerbin orbit separately by a well-tested reusable crew launcher:
    CTNhjsq.jpg
    6KGLmJb.png

    Departure! I didn't bother taking pictures of the base or lander as they left Kerbin. The base is staying inside fairings for the whole flight, so there's not much to see.
    0k6J0if.jpg
    Fqx5OxC.png

    Base arrival at Duna. Turns out I didn't bring very much fuel, so I need to do some pretty aggressive aerobraking. Don't worry, the contents are IN-flammable!
    u6RxWKh.png
    bc0BojS.png

    The base parachuted down successfully! There are two separate modules: a habitat and a science lab. The science lab has a small greenhouse, both for plant growth experiments and to stretch out the food supply a bit.
    agxxEUN.jpg
    (whoops, forgot to turn the GUI off on that one)
    cVPrVcw.jpg
    rullHIa.jpg
    Bzjjxcw.jpg

    Unfortunately it landed on the side of a mountain, so I had to sit there playing Duna Desert Bus driving each module over to a flat area. But whatever, they both got there, linked up, and deployed.
    6lxVQ6L.png
    gP5xcPv.png

    Lander arrival at Duna. I put it in a parking orbit to wait for the crew vehicle.
    Aeg0Kun.png
    dlG1pwh.png
    9oxhYaQ.png

    Crew vehicle arrives at Duna. It brought along a couple of survey probes. (What the hell, I've got the VASIMR, right? Might as well use it.) The survey probes detach while we're still a couple days away from Duna, because they need to enter polar orbits whereas the crew vehicle is aiming for an equatorial orbit. This means I had to do a circularization burn of all three spacecraft at basically the same time, which was a little dicey but worked out in the end. The VASIMR takes like twenty minutes to circularize, whereas the probes only take a few seconds, so it wasn't too big a deal switching away from it for a bit. (Edit: Note that solar panels produce half as much EC at Duna as they do at Kerbin, so the thrust to weight ratio got even worse as I couldn't throttle the engines past 50%. Maybe the nuclear reactors are worth the money...)
    Wn8v8pF.jpg
    3VbddX1.jpg
    isMgudU.png

    Crew vehicle rendezvous with lander. Three Kerbals get to land, one stays in orbit on Collins duty.
    Q8GTntC.png
    T2oGCXX.jpg

    Landing at base. More accurate than I expected! I was dreading having to walk three kerbals each a few kilometers or so.
    l6wUf1a.png
    nJwKhtC.png

    Start of 1 year long ground mission. We've got a science lab, a big habitat, a small greenhouse, and a lot of prepackaged snacks.
    HGRAKTT.png

    Daedalus on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Proof you don't need fancy visuals or anti-aliasing for a damn good mission! Since I started playing again, I finally got my Eve probe to its destination (Moho too, but the Kerbabl-Moho keeps exploding as soon as it touches down, even at low speeds--maybe you're not supposed to land on Moho?).

  • DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    Was the probe going to Eve's surface? I ended up giving up on my Eve mission and returning everyone to Kerbin in shame...

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Daedalus wrote: »
    Was the probe going to Eve's surface? I ended up giving up on my Eve mission and returning everyone to Kerbin in shame...

    No, I actually launched two Eve probes--Kerbabl-Eve (a lander) and Eve-1 (and orbital probe). The former was supposed to land, and probably could have (if it survived reentry) if it wasn't lost due to "technical failure" (basically I installed the satellite control mod, and the antenna it did have wasn't compatible), so I watched it burn to cinders in Eve. Eve-1 made a proper orbit, and I'm hoping to use the last bit of fuel it has to eventually intercept Eve's asteroid capture for more data at some point.

  • EvigilantEvigilant VARegistered User regular
    edited January 2016
    @Daedalus
    What is the mod with the Hab ring on your station? I forgot what it was called and I really want it back. The base mod looks really cool too, I made need to pick that up as well.

    64bit cannot come fast enough.

    Evigilant on
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  • InfamyDeferredInfamyDeferred Registered User regular
    Daedalus wrote: »
    I kind of knew that, with the new atmosphere model, drag wasn't as big an issue but I do have trouble keeping control with gravity turns at very high speed.

    Maybe for my next next lifter, I'll try to balance the liquid fuel capacity and SRB burn to be equal with the main engine at 100%. Seems like just the kind of nonsense that would keep me occupied for a bit.

    Thanks for the insight, everyone.

    The main concern is to keep the center of mass ahead of the center of drag. Put a bunch of tail fins on the bottom of the rocket and keep as much weight towards the top as possible.

    Another trick for rockets that only lose stability above 10km: manually pump fuel to the top of the lifter stage to keep that CoM up high.

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