The greatest Zelda is LttP - the Lost Levels. These being stages that I created after studying the LttP dungeon maps in Nintendo Power Magazine like a religious text, until I started having vivid Legend of Zelda dreams, and built replicas of those dreams out of LEGOs. Then, I actually got LttP for my birthday... and the very next day, without even time to finish the Light World dungeons, my parents shipped me off for two weeks to stay at my grandparent's farm for the summer. So I rebuilt the Lost Levels on Graph Paper, and ran my cousins through them like a D&D game, and we all got yelled at by Grandpa for spending too damn much time inside on our vacation. Because, obviously, a cattle ranch in St. Anthony Idaho should be a veritable wonderland for a bunch of 9-10 year olds.
Desert Leviathan on
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+4
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Zelda 2 is definitely the hardest Legend of Zelda title, though it's also the least like the series.
I called Wind Waker empty a couple of pages ago which may have precipitated some of the current discussion. And it's true, there's a lot of emptiness in the game. But it's still one of my favorite Zeldas. I enjoyed it more than Ocarina of Time, for instance.
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+3
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I called Wind Waker empty a couple of pages ago which may have precipitated some of the current discussion. And it's true, there's a lot of emptiness in the game. But it's still one of my favorite Zeldas. I enjoyed it more than Ocarina of Time, for instance.
Twilight Princess is also empty, but the difference between it and Wind Waker is that WW is honest about that emptiness - if it's open blue, there's probably nothing there. In TP it's like, "HERE'S A HILL. IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT HAS A TREE, THAT'S IT." And the crowded nature of Hyrule Castletown doesn't help mask its emptiness, but it also confuses me about what is where. Which is strange and backwards as shit, maybe my brain has problems.
I called Wind Waker empty a couple of pages ago which may have precipitated some of the current discussion. And it's true, there's a lot of emptiness in the game. But it's still one of my favorite Zeldas. I enjoyed it more than Ocarina of Time, for instance.
Twilight Princess is also empty, but the difference between it and Wind Waker is that WW is honest about that emptiness - if it's open blue, there's probably nothing there. In TP it's like, "HERE'S A HILL. IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT HAS A TREE, THAT'S IT." And the crowded nature of Hyrule Castletown doesn't help mask its emptiness, but it also confuses me about what is where. Which is strange and backwards as shit, maybe my brain has problems.
You seen the TP land? I wouldn't go the fuck out there, shit's dangerous!
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0
GreasyKidsStuffMOMMM!ROAST BEEF WANTS TO KISS GIRLS ON THE TITTIES!Registered Userregular
edited June 2014
I've been having a slight inclination to replay OoT as of late (probably spurred by downloading Minish Cap), and I wonder if picking up OoT 3D would be worth it. Maybe, maybe not. Saw it was on sale for e3 so now would be the time, but I got a big backlog, and it is only a slight inclination.
Back to Minish Cap, I beat the first dungeon last night and the game is definitely as charming as I remember it (I love the soundtrack and the world when you're miniature), but replaying it has definitely made the Zelda formula glaringly evident. Looking forward to some new stuff with Hyrule Warriors and Zelda U.
Twilight Princess bored me so bad I skipped Skyward Sword. I loved LBW though. My favorite Zelda is still whichever one I get nostalgic for at the moment.
I am curious if there are going to be open word events that happen if you are there or not. It would be cool if they do something similar to the FATEs in FFXIV.
Twilight Princess bored me so bad I skipped Skyward Sword. I loved LBW though. My favorite Zelda is still whichever one I get nostalgic for at the moment.
This was a mistake
Of all the complaints you can level at Skyward Sword, "empty" is not one of them
Wyborn on
+1
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Midna is a fantastic character. Outside of that, Twilight Princess is poop from a butt.
The only Zelda games I hated my first time through were Adventure of Link, Majoras Mask, and Skyward Sword. I couldn't even finish them.
I liked all the others on the initial trip, but A Link to the Past is the only one that I can play multiple times.
Any other game and the first thing that comes to mind is:
"Ugh god, I'm not going through all of that bullshit again."
Especially Wind Waker, which I found moderately charming the first time but probably hated the quickest afterword for its empty and boring world and lack of content.
Viskod on
0
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Twilight Princess bored me so bad I skipped Skyward Sword. I loved LBW though. My favorite Zelda is still whichever one I get nostalgic for at the moment.
This was a mistake
Of all the complaints you can level at Skyward Sword, "empty" is not one of them
Midna is a fantastic character. Outside of that, Twilight Princess is poop from a butt.
Wow.
I guess it's the Zelda cycle and it's the it thing to hate on Twilight Princess now?
I guess. It is the one that I have the least desire to go back and replay I guess, but that hardly makes it a bad game - there are plenty of games I have no desire to replay but still consider amazing.
Man there is not nearly enough love in this thread. Even the people defending one game in the series are also talking about how they didn't like another game. I love them all (except for the flute portions in Spirit Tracks because fuck that).
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I maintain that Zelda II is one of the best of the series.
And it's the only true RPG of the entire series.
*drops mic, walks out*
Is there a rule that somebody has to say this once a page?
Even though I am blatantly trolling with that comment, I'm also being totally honest. It really is one of my faves. And I do consider it the most RPGish of all the Zeldas, as if that matters. It's been how long since it came out? I still don't understand the hatred for it.
What, exactly, constitutes an RPG in this series? Zelda II has the most elements of a stat-managing system, in line with games like Final Fantasy, which sort of pioneered what RPGs mean in the video game sense.
But then there's Skyward Sword, which has a very limited form of role-playing by letting you choose dialogue options with Link. Or even Majora's Mask, which has you deciding how much of the country's problems Link feels like mapping out and solving, but that could apply to any game in this series with sidequests...
I guess I consider stat management/increasing to be a fundamental aspect of RPGs, considering the CRPG was the precursor, and D&D was the precursor to that, and stats were a fundamental aspect of D&D.
Well, DND's stats were part and parcel of building a character from the ground up and making their decisions, right?
I dunno. It still feels kind of weird to use the term "RPG" on games where you're really just watching someone's established role be played out.
Buuuut that's a different discussion altogether. It's true. In terms of video game RPG-style stat building, the Zelda game most in line with that is Okami Zelda II.
I completely forgot about Spirit Tracks. I really enjoyed it. Also the overworld theme is boss.
I liked it more than Phantom Hourglass, but Phantom Hourglass had those ghosts who commented on people that shouldn't complain about the stylus controls and just enjoy the game.
Spirit tracks should have let you draw your own tracks like in hour glass .
That said I.hope the next Toon Link Game just goes full hog and gives you a motorcycle or van. Like new Hyrule is at early 1920s level of tech. Itd be cool if that branch of the series moved forward
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I wonder how the Master Sword could remain relevant if the world moves towards latter-day weaponry, like guns and stuff.
Maybe if the later Link became Metal Gear Rising-levels of agile and could bat bullets out of the air.
I think even if transit and quality.of life tech improve the need for weapons to advance in Zelda is non-existent. Hyrule is typically at peace for centurues at a time.
Like I could see link getting a cross bow with bomb arrows as a default but swords would still be common.
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+1
AbsoluteZeroThe new film by Quentin KoopantinoRegistered Userregular
Midna is a fantastic character. Outside of that, Twilight Princess is poop from a butt.
Wow.
I guess it's the Zelda cycle and it's the it thing to hate on Twilight Princess now?
I don't suddenly not like it because it's the cool thing to do right now. I don't like it because it's a slow, plodding, boring game. It's a fucking chore. I had to force myself to finish it, figuring that the conclusion with Zant would have to be epic... but it wasn't. They turned him into a fucking looney toon right at the end, a completely lame twist. And then, hey here's Ganondorf, why not?
I wonder how the Master Sword could remain relevant if the world moves towards latter-day weaponry, like guns and stuff.
Maybe if the later Link became Metal Gear Rising-levels of agile and could bat bullets out of the air.
I think even if transit and quality.of life tech improve the need for weapons to advance in Zelda is non-existent. Hyrule is typically at peace for centurues at a time.
Like I could see link getting a cross bow with bomb arrows as a default but swords would still be common.
Spirit Tracks. If only the flute wasn't so god-damned fucked up I'd have beaten it. But no, I do not want to try for hours on end before you finally register that I played a song in a minigame used like five times total ever.
Because if I play it, there stands a good chance I might die. And I do not need to see and hear that fucking game over screen ever again in my life.
You can play the super shitty Japanese version that doesn't even have Ganon in the game over screen. :P Also all dungeons use the same two tilesets, everything is piss easy, and the Ocean Temple has a lame repeating boss. And you "rescue" the children by stabbing them (i.e. like picking up a jar or something), which is kind of funny in a terrible sort of way. It's like the rare case where they made the game significantly better in the time between Japanese and American releases.
Midna is a fantastic character. Outside of that, Twilight Princess is poop from a butt.
Wow.
I guess it's the Zelda cycle and it's the it thing to hate on Twilight Princess now?
I maintain that Twilight Princess is a pretty decent game but with uneven bouts of terribleness mixed in. Really if you can get passed the first dungeon it gets much better, but the whole beginning of the game is awful. And like I said, I hate the first dungeon (which is sad, because it is the Forest Temple, and the Forest Temple in Ocarina is my absolute favorite dungeon in that game... maybe also because it's technically the "let's make subtle Zelda II references" dungeon :P). I actually think I actively hate the wolf segments of that game too. They are ugly and tedious. And as mentioned, the god damn waggle controls, which actually made me question whether my Wiimote was broken several times. Seriously Link, when I waggle that means ATTACK, not "stand there and get hit by dudes." I bet the Gamecube version is better
One of these days I should go back and play it again though. I tried right before Skyward Sword came out but was just so beaten down by the time I actually got to Kakariko for the first time that I couldn't bring myself to keep going. Maybe if I pick it up again I'll start there, since the game starts to get good a little bit after that point anyways :P
If Link's blood is needed for the ritual, then why does that same screen show if you die in lava?
I actually wonder if that's a weird translation mistake and it's not his actual blood they need, but just for him to die. I think "Link's blood" was just a narrative flourish :P
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Twilight Princess is also empty, but the difference between it and Wind Waker is that WW is honest about that emptiness - if it's open blue, there's probably nothing there. In TP it's like, "HERE'S A HILL. IT DOESN'T MATTER, IT HAS A TREE, THAT'S IT." And the crowded nature of Hyrule Castletown doesn't help mask its emptiness, but it also confuses me about what is where. Which is strange and backwards as shit, maybe my brain has problems.
You seen the TP land? I wouldn't go the fuck out there, shit's dangerous!
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Back to Minish Cap, I beat the first dungeon last night and the game is definitely as charming as I remember it (I love the soundtrack and the world when you're miniature), but replaying it has definitely made the Zelda formula glaringly evident. Looking forward to some new stuff with Hyrule Warriors and Zelda U.
This was a mistake
Of all the complaints you can level at Skyward Sword, "empty" is not one of them
I liked all the others on the initial trip, but A Link to the Past is the only one that I can play multiple times.
Any other game and the first thing that comes to mind is:
"Ugh god, I'm not going through all of that bullshit again."
Especially Wind Waker, which I found moderately charming the first time but probably hated the quickest afterword for its empty and boring world and lack of content.
Except for that huge, empty ass sky.
Wow.
I guess it's the Zelda cycle and it's the it thing to hate on Twilight Princess now?
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I guess. It is the one that I have the least desire to go back and replay I guess, but that hardly makes it a bad game - there are plenty of games I have no desire to replay but still consider amazing.
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I'd play through it again but ugh god, that slow opening, so much shit to collect, 5 pieces of heart per container?
I don't want to go through all that bullshit again.
Hey, let's make this collectible only obtainable at night and also this is the first game with a day/night cycle without a way to make it be night.
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And it's the only true RPG of the entire series.
*drops mic, walks out*
Is there a rule that somebody has to say this once a page?
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Even though I am blatantly trolling with that comment, I'm also being totally honest. It really is one of my faves. And I do consider it the most RPGish of all the Zeldas, as if that matters. It's been how long since it came out? I still don't understand the hatred for it.
But then there's Skyward Sword, which has a very limited form of role-playing by letting you choose dialogue options with Link. Or even Majora's Mask, which has you deciding how much of the country's problems Link feels like mapping out and solving, but that could apply to any game in this series with sidequests...
But it's pretty arbitrary.
I'd define them all as adventure games.
I dunno. It still feels kind of weird to use the term "RPG" on games where you're really just watching someone's established role be played out.
Buuuut that's a different discussion altogether. It's true. In terms of video game RPG-style stat building, the Zelda game most in line with that is Okami Zelda II.
I liked it more than Phantom Hourglass, but Phantom Hourglass had those ghosts who commented on people that shouldn't complain about the stylus controls and just enjoy the game.
That said I.hope the next Toon Link Game just goes full hog and gives you a motorcycle or van. Like new Hyrule is at early 1920s level of tech. Itd be cool if that branch of the series moved forward
Maybe if the later Link became Metal Gear Rising-levels of agile and could bat bullets out of the air.
I think even if transit and quality.of life tech improve the need for weapons to advance in Zelda is non-existent. Hyrule is typically at peace for centurues at a time.
Like I could see link getting a cross bow with bomb arrows as a default but swords would still be common.
I don't suddenly not like it because it's the cool thing to do right now. I don't like it because it's a slow, plodding, boring game. It's a fucking chore. I had to force myself to finish it, figuring that the conclusion with Zant would have to be epic... but it wasn't. They turned him into a fucking looney toon right at the end, a completely lame twist. And then, hey here's Ganondorf, why not?
In short - I have never liked Twilight Princess.
Spirit Tracks. If only the flute wasn't so god-damned fucked up I'd have beaten it. But no, I do not want to try for hours on end before you finally register that I played a song in a minigame used like five times total ever.
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And be a wicked sax
Because if I play it, there stands a good chance I might die. And I do not need to see and hear that fucking game over screen ever again in my life.
It's just the NO FEAR eyes.
...
I just imagined Bill Clinton in poorly fitting Link cosplay. Thanks for that.
But I am, so just imagine it and laugh.
You can play the super shitty Japanese version that doesn't even have Ganon in the game over screen. :P Also all dungeons use the same two tilesets, everything is piss easy, and the Ocean Temple has a lame repeating boss. And you "rescue" the children by stabbing them (i.e. like picking up a jar or something), which is kind of funny in a terrible sort of way. It's like the rare case where they made the game significantly better in the time between Japanese and American releases.
I maintain that Twilight Princess is a pretty decent game but with uneven bouts of terribleness mixed in. Really if you can get passed the first dungeon it gets much better, but the whole beginning of the game is awful. And like I said, I hate the first dungeon (which is sad, because it is the Forest Temple, and the Forest Temple in Ocarina is my absolute favorite dungeon in that game... maybe also because it's technically the "let's make subtle Zelda II references" dungeon :P). I actually think I actively hate the wolf segments of that game too. They are ugly and tedious. And as mentioned, the god damn waggle controls, which actually made me question whether my Wiimote was broken several times. Seriously Link, when I waggle that means ATTACK, not "stand there and get hit by dudes." I bet the Gamecube version is better
One of these days I should go back and play it again though. I tried right before Skyward Sword came out but was just so beaten down by the time I actually got to Kakariko for the first time that I couldn't bring myself to keep going. Maybe if I pick it up again I'll start there, since the game starts to get good a little bit after that point anyways :P
Edit:
I actually wonder if that's a weird translation mistake and it's not his actual blood they need, but just for him to die. I think "Link's blood" was just a narrative flourish :P