More events would end up lowering the quality of the event. Having a few good expos a year is great because it gives the devs time to prepare a good demo that lots of people can look at. Once you start having more of these expos the devs will stop attending more and more because the lack of funds to move around that much, the lack of time to prepare new demos, and the lack of enthusiasm. If it's Christmas every day what's the point?
The only good solutions to this long term is a larger area, or higher ticket prices not more expos.
Higher ticket price is not a good solution, short term or long term.
Maybe, but because of the current ticket prices I can sell extras for double and go for free all expenses paid! Doubling the price eliminates this because of risk/reward goes up and supply/demand goes down since quite a few people won't pay that kind of money for an expo.
Blizzcon 2013 tickets clocked in at $175 for a two day show, or $87.50 per day.
That is more than double the price of PAX Prime this year, and to the best of my knowledge they sold out within an hour or so, which is pretty comparable to the PAX sales (Khoo tweeted that they were 75% gone after half an hour).
Taking that into account I would argue that a simple price increase will not so much reduce demand as shift who is able to go, as some people with less disposable income drop out and others (from the vast crowd of people who can't go due to overwhelming demand) take their place.
First off comparing blizzcon to pax is not fair since they only hold it once per year, they tell you when tickets go on sale and give you 2 chance, and it's not as big of an event like pax with only about 30k people attending back in 2013.
Increasing the price of Pax tickets would decrease the demand, enough to give all those who demand a ticket a ticket? No most likley not, but enough to let those who want one bad enough to have a higher chance at getting one. plus more money into the expo = better expo and swag most likely. Then last it will reduce the number of scalpers since they won't make as much money off of a ticket. Those are three good/long term reasons of why to increase the tickets to at least double. Once tickets don't sell out then lower the prices back down.
I still remember when pax did not sell out and you could get a ticket from walking up during the expo.. but those days are gone and may/may not return. But change is taking place and they should adjust.
As others have stated many many times the upping the price literally just takes passes from person X and puts them in the hands of person Y strictly because of how much they have in their account. As I've said many times the great thing about Pax is it is a community event that is available to everyone not just people who are 'well off' or 'rich' but families, students & people just starting out in careers etc etc
I think it would suck completely if raising prices meant families couldn't afford to go or if it was a case of alternating family members due to cost.
Would you also want the hotels to raise their prices too? technically speaking they do give a really big discount for the Pax event they could lower the discount & raise the cost per night which would also shift demand & put more tickets into people with more disposable income hands.
Really, there isn't a good solution. Pax IS perfect the way it is - an affordable way for members of the gaming community its just that the gaming community is huge, worldwide and is a determined bunch.
Also regarding the comment of "they should adjust" doesn't always work, while hockey is obviously different than Pax, I can assure you the prices of going to a game in Vancouver have 'adjusted' over time and now the atmosphere in rogers arena stinks since majority of the people going are folks who get comped tickets from work or are business suits who only go due to it being a status symbol. My point being is they priced out the average joe and even though I can afford it, its really difficult justifying forking out $$$ to go when its that expensive. I don't think that makes me any less of a fan than the people who go just because they choose to pay that absurd amount of $.
Yes it will take passes from person X and put them into person Y's hands. So person Y is willing to pay more for a show.. how is this a bad thing? Stating that raising prices means families could not afford to go is a poor excuse. If this is a families vacation doubling the ticket prices would not put them out, and to be honest I've never seen a whole family at pax and i've gone for many many years.
Saying that PAX is perfect the way it is... that's just has to be ignorance or you are not looking at the problems. THERE is problems with how pax currently is. Tickets sell out in less than a hour, people complain about scalpers, true loyal fans don't get passes while scalpers and people who just buy em and maybe go get passes... The idea of double ticket prices would help resolve those issues.. maybe not completely, but more so than not doing anything and making ignorant statements like pax is perfect.
And again I state that double ticket prices is not such a huge jump that only the rich can go.. if you can't afford 220 bucks for a once a year event then you should not be going because of financial issues.. I would not want that person to go even if it was 110 because they clearly have some money troubles and PAX is not a super cheap event. Even the parking almost costs more.
PA wants PAX to be as affordable as possible. They are not going to drastically jack the price up. PAX has been selling out faster because it has gotten more popular. Supply vs Demand. X<<<<<<Y. Scalpers are a very minor problem.
Now take your arguments elsewhere. They have been argued in circles for a long time, and no progress has been made. And none likely will until the Convention center expansion is complete.
More events would end up lowering the quality of the event. Having a few good expos a year is great because it gives the devs time to prepare a good demo that lots of people can look at. Once you start having more of these expos the devs will stop attending more and more because the lack of funds to move around that much, the lack of time to prepare new demos, and the lack of enthusiasm. If it's Christmas every day what's the point?
The only good solutions to this long term is a larger area, or higher ticket prices not more expos.
Higher ticket price is not a good solution, short term or long term.
Maybe, but because of the current ticket prices I can sell extras for double and go for free all expenses paid! Doubling the price eliminates this because of risk/reward goes up and supply/demand goes down since quite a few people won't pay that kind of money for an expo.
Blizzcon 2013 tickets clocked in at $175 for a two day show, or $87.50 per day.
That is more than double the price of PAX Prime this year, and to the best of my knowledge they sold out within an hour or so, which is pretty comparable to the PAX sales (Khoo tweeted that they were 75% gone after half an hour).
Taking that into account I would argue that a simple price increase will not so much reduce demand as shift who is able to go, as some people with less disposable income drop out and others (from the vast crowd of people who can't go due to overwhelming demand) take their place.
First off comparing blizzcon to pax is not fair since they only hold it once per year, they tell you when tickets go on sale and give you 2 chance, and it's not as big of an event like pax with only about 30k people attending back in 2013.
Increasing the price of Pax tickets would decrease the demand, enough to give all those who demand a ticket a ticket? No most likley not, but enough to let those who want one bad enough to have a higher chance at getting one. plus more money into the expo = better expo and swag most likely. Then last it will reduce the number of scalpers since they won't make as much money off of a ticket. Those are three good/long term reasons of why to increase the tickets to at least double. Once tickets don't sell out then lower the prices back down.
I still remember when pax did not sell out and you could get a ticket from walking up during the expo.. but those days are gone and may/may not return. But change is taking place and they should adjust.
As others have stated many many times the upping the price literally just takes passes from person X and puts them in the hands of person Y strictly because of how much they have in their account. As I've said many times the great thing about Pax is it is a community event that is available to everyone not just people who are 'well off' or 'rich' but families, students & people just starting out in careers etc etc
I think it would suck completely if raising prices meant families couldn't afford to go or if it was a case of alternating family members due to cost.
Would you also want the hotels to raise their prices too? technically speaking they do give a really big discount for the Pax event they could lower the discount & raise the cost per night which would also shift demand & put more tickets into people with more disposable income hands.
Really, there isn't a good solution. Pax IS perfect the way it is - an affordable way for members of the gaming community its just that the gaming community is huge, worldwide and is a determined bunch.
Also regarding the comment of "they should adjust" doesn't always work, while hockey is obviously different than Pax, I can assure you the prices of going to a game in Vancouver have 'adjusted' over time and now the atmosphere in rogers arena stinks since majority of the people going are folks who get comped tickets from work or are business suits who only go due to it being a status symbol. My point being is they priced out the average joe and even though I can afford it, its really difficult justifying forking out $$$ to go when its that expensive. I don't think that makes me any less of a fan than the people who go just because they choose to pay that absurd amount of $.
Yes it will take passes from person X and put them into person Y's hands. So person Y is willing to pay more for a show.. how is this a bad thing? Stating that raising prices means families could not afford to go is a poor excuse. If this is a families vacation doubling the ticket prices would not put them out, and to be honest I've never seen a whole family at pax and i've gone for many many years.
Saying that PAX is perfect the way it is... that's just has to be ignorance or you are not looking at the problems. THERE is problems with how pax currently is. Tickets sell out in less than a hour, people complain about scalpers, true loyal fans don't get passes while scalpers and people who just buy em and maybe go get passes... The idea of double ticket prices would help resolve those issues.. maybe not completely, but more so than not doing anything and making ignorant statements like pax is perfect.
And again I state that double ticket prices is not such a huge jump that only the rich can go.. if you can't afford 220 bucks for a once a year event then you should not be going because of financial issues.. I would not want that person to go even if it was 110 because they clearly have some money troubles and PAX is not a super cheap event. Even the parking almost costs more.
Dude, stop. Raising the price tickets would NOT help resolve those issues. Not in the slightest. It wouldn't do ANYthing good. All it'd do is make PAX less accessible to the everyperson, making PAX stray away from its mission of creating a community-based convention for all (read: any) gamer to enjoy.
Also, drop the "true loyal fan". That's a True Scot fallacy. There is no "true" fan. If you like games, if you like PA, or PAX, or just hang around friends who love games, you're welcome to PAX. It's not some elite club for the person who reads the comics, hangs in the forums, plays all games. It's for whoever buys the tickets.
Even if the prices rise, it'll sell out exactly as fast. The reason Chuck says PAX is perfect the way it is is not because PAX is "perfect", but because all of the issues regarding badges cannot be solved by a simple solution, or solved at all. Raising the price of badges wouldn't help anything. All it can do is negative.
If you're a true loyal fan you have the option of paying more for a ticket through official channels. It's $340-$440 instead of $220, which should make you even happier. And hey were available before the general public had access, and long after the general public sold out.
They may even be available still. Haven't checked in a couple days.
You want to spend $300 to get a badge (a four-day, even!) then, you know, go do it.
More events would end up lowering the quality of the event. Having a few good expos a year is great because it gives the devs time to prepare a good demo that lots of people can look at. Once you start having more of these expos the devs will stop attending more and more because the lack of funds to move around that much, the lack of time to prepare new demos, and the lack of enthusiasm. If it's Christmas every day what's the point?
The only good solutions to this long term is a larger area, or higher ticket prices not more expos.
Higher ticket price is not a good solution, short term or long term.
Maybe, but because of the current ticket prices I can sell extras for double and go for free all expenses paid! Doubling the price eliminates this because of risk/reward goes up and supply/demand goes down since quite a few people won't pay that kind of money for an expo.
Blizzcon 2013 tickets clocked in at $175 for a two day show, or $87.50 per day.
That is more than double the price of PAX Prime this year, and to the best of my knowledge they sold out within an hour or so, which is pretty comparable to the PAX sales (Khoo tweeted that they were 75% gone after half an hour).
Taking that into account I would argue that a simple price increase will not so much reduce demand as shift who is able to go, as some people with less disposable income drop out and others (from the vast crowd of people who can't go due to overwhelming demand) take their place.
First off comparing blizzcon to pax is not fair since they only hold it once per year, they tell you when tickets go on sale and give you 2 chance, and it's not as big of an event like pax with only about 30k people attending back in 2013.
Increasing the price of Pax tickets would decrease the demand, enough to give all those who demand a ticket a ticket? No most likley not, but enough to let those who want one bad enough to have a higher chance at getting one. plus more money into the expo = better expo and swag most likely. Then last it will reduce the number of scalpers since they won't make as much money off of a ticket. Those are three good/long term reasons of why to increase the tickets to at least double. Once tickets don't sell out then lower the prices back down.
I still remember when pax did not sell out and you could get a ticket from walking up during the expo.. but those days are gone and may/may not return. But change is taking place and they should adjust.
As others have stated many many times the upping the price literally just takes passes from person X and puts them in the hands of person Y strictly because of how much they have in their account. As I've said many times the great thing about Pax is it is a community event that is available to everyone not just people who are 'well off' or 'rich' but families, students & people just starting out in careers etc etc
I think it would suck completely if raising prices meant families couldn't afford to go or if it was a case of alternating family members due to cost.
Would you also want the hotels to raise their prices too? technically speaking they do give a really big discount for the Pax event they could lower the discount & raise the cost per night which would also shift demand & put more tickets into people with more disposable income hands.
Really, there isn't a good solution. Pax IS perfect the way it is - an affordable way for members of the gaming community its just that the gaming community is huge, worldwide and is a determined bunch.
Also regarding the comment of "they should adjust" doesn't always work, while hockey is obviously different than Pax, I can assure you the prices of going to a game in Vancouver have 'adjusted' over time and now the atmosphere in rogers arena stinks since majority of the people going are folks who get comped tickets from work or are business suits who only go due to it being a status symbol. My point being is they priced out the average joe and even though I can afford it, its really difficult justifying forking out $$$ to go when its that expensive. I don't think that makes me any less of a fan than the people who go just because they choose to pay that absurd amount of $.
Yes it will take passes from person X and put them into person Y's hands. So person Y is willing to pay more for a show.. how is this a bad thing? Stating that raising prices means families could not afford to go is a poor excuse. If this is a families vacation doubling the ticket prices would not put them out, and to be honest I've never seen a whole family at pax and i've gone for many many years.
Saying that PAX is perfect the way it is... that's just has to be ignorance or you are not looking at the problems. THERE is problems with how pax currently is. Tickets sell out in less than a hour, people complain about scalpers, true loyal fans don't get passes while scalpers and people who just buy em and maybe go get passes... The idea of double ticket prices would help resolve those issues.. maybe not completely, but more so than not doing anything and making ignorant statements like pax is perfect.
And again I state that double ticket prices is not such a huge jump that only the rich can go.. if you can't afford 220 bucks for a once a year event then you should not be going because of financial issues.. I would not want that person to go even if it was 110 because they clearly have some money troubles and PAX is not a super cheap event. Even the parking almost costs more.
PA wants PAX to be as affordable as possible. They are not going to drastically jack the price up. PAX has been selling out faster because it has gotten more popular. Supply vs Demand. X<<<<<<Y. Scalpers are a very minor problem.
Now take your arguments elsewhere. They have been argued in circles for a long time, and no progress has been made. And none likely will until the Convention center expansion is complete.
If that is true why not lower the price!?! And even if the Convention center expansion is complete they won't sell more tickets.. you know why? because fire codes only allow a certain number of people in the building.. so more tickets = more people. Even if they want them spread out they won't always be and thus fire marshal shuts it down.. Think about it and I'm sure it will come to you.
I only keep arguing this point so more and more people will see the truth and hopefully start to back the idea of higher prices.
More events would end up lowering the quality of the event. Having a few good expos a year is great because it gives the devs time to prepare a good demo that lots of people can look at. Once you start having more of these expos the devs will stop attending more and more because the lack of funds to move around that much, the lack of time to prepare new demos, and the lack of enthusiasm. If it's Christmas every day what's the point?
The only good solutions to this long term is a larger area, or higher ticket prices not more expos.
Higher ticket price is not a good solution, short term or long term.
Maybe, but because of the current ticket prices I can sell extras for double and go for free all expenses paid! Doubling the price eliminates this because of risk/reward goes up and supply/demand goes down since quite a few people won't pay that kind of money for an expo.
Blizzcon 2013 tickets clocked in at $175 for a two day show, or $87.50 per day.
That is more than double the price of PAX Prime this year, and to the best of my knowledge they sold out within an hour or so, which is pretty comparable to the PAX sales (Khoo tweeted that they were 75% gone after half an hour).
Taking that into account I would argue that a simple price increase will not so much reduce demand as shift who is able to go, as some people with less disposable income drop out and others (from the vast crowd of people who can't go due to overwhelming demand) take their place.
First off comparing blizzcon to pax is not fair since they only hold it once per year, they tell you when tickets go on sale and give you 2 chance, and it's not as big of an event like pax with only about 30k people attending back in 2013.
Increasing the price of Pax tickets would decrease the demand, enough to give all those who demand a ticket a ticket? No most likley not, but enough to let those who want one bad enough to have a higher chance at getting one. plus more money into the expo = better expo and swag most likely. Then last it will reduce the number of scalpers since they won't make as much money off of a ticket. Those are three good/long term reasons of why to increase the tickets to at least double. Once tickets don't sell out then lower the prices back down.
I still remember when pax did not sell out and you could get a ticket from walking up during the expo.. but those days are gone and may/may not return. But change is taking place and they should adjust.
As others have stated many many times the upping the price literally just takes passes from person X and puts them in the hands of person Y strictly because of how much they have in their account. As I've said many times the great thing about Pax is it is a community event that is available to everyone not just people who are 'well off' or 'rich' but families, students & people just starting out in careers etc etc
I think it would suck completely if raising prices meant families couldn't afford to go or if it was a case of alternating family members due to cost.
Would you also want the hotels to raise their prices too? technically speaking they do give a really big discount for the Pax event they could lower the discount & raise the cost per night which would also shift demand & put more tickets into people with more disposable income hands.
Really, there isn't a good solution. Pax IS perfect the way it is - an affordable way for members of the gaming community its just that the gaming community is huge, worldwide and is a determined bunch.
Also regarding the comment of "they should adjust" doesn't always work, while hockey is obviously different than Pax, I can assure you the prices of going to a game in Vancouver have 'adjusted' over time and now the atmosphere in rogers arena stinks since majority of the people going are folks who get comped tickets from work or are business suits who only go due to it being a status symbol. My point being is they priced out the average joe and even though I can afford it, its really difficult justifying forking out $$$ to go when its that expensive. I don't think that makes me any less of a fan than the people who go just because they choose to pay that absurd amount of $.
Yes it will take passes from person X and put them into person Y's hands. So person Y is willing to pay more for a show.. how is this a bad thing? Stating that raising prices means families could not afford to go is a poor excuse. If this is a families vacation doubling the ticket prices would not put them out, and to be honest I've never seen a whole family at pax and i've gone for many many years.
Saying that PAX is perfect the way it is... that's just has to be ignorance or you are not looking at the problems. THERE is problems with how pax currently is. Tickets sell out in less than a hour, people complain about scalpers, true loyal fans don't get passes while scalpers and people who just buy em and maybe go get passes... The idea of double ticket prices would help resolve those issues.. maybe not completely, but more so than not doing anything and making ignorant statements like pax is perfect.
And again I state that double ticket prices is not such a huge jump that only the rich can go.. if you can't afford 220 bucks for a once a year event then you should not be going because of financial issues.. I would not want that person to go even if it was 110 because they clearly have some money troubles and PAX is not a super cheap event. Even the parking almost costs more.
Dude, stop. Raising the price tickets would NOT help resolve those issues. Not in the slightest. It wouldn't do ANYthing good. All it'd do is make PAX less accessible to the everyperson, making PAX stray away from its mission of creating a community-based convention for all (read: any) gamer to enjoy.
Also, drop the "true loyal fan". That's a True Scot fallacy. There is no "true" fan. If you like games, if you like PA, or PAX, or just hang around friends who love games, you're welcome to PAX. It's not some elite club for the person who reads the comics, hangs in the forums, plays all games. It's for whoever buys the tickets.
Even if the prices rise, it'll sell out exactly as fast. The reason Chuck says PAX is perfect the way it is is not because PAX is "perfect", but because all of the issues regarding badges cannot be solved by a simple solution, or solved at all. Raising the price of badges wouldn't help anything. All it can do is negative.
How would raising ticket prices not resolve any of the issues I stated? You say it won't but have nothing to back your logic.. thus your logic is flawed. I gave very clear reasons why raising the prices would help pax, if you expect me to even consider your side then please have something to back your reasoning.... I do for mine. (Read previous posts)
Nobody will back the idea of higher prices because it's a horrible idea. You say you have provided reasons why rising the prices would help PAX, and we have explained clearly why it wouldn't. Tickets will sell exactly as fast, so that solves nothing, and scalpers will still exist, so that's not solved either. All it does is create a higher barrier of entry, which is a terrible idea considering what PAX aims to be. And since a lot of the fun of PAX comes from the community and unofficial events, pouring more money into PAX doesn't translate directly into a better quality experience. People make PAX, not money. The money is there to pay for the expenses of PAX, and to pay the wage of people involved.
Nobody will back the idea of higher prices because it's a horrible idea. You say you have provided reasons why rising the prices would help PAX, and we have explained clearly why it wouldn't. Tickets will sell exactly as fast, so that solves nothing, and scalpers will still exist, so that's not solved either. All it does is create a higher barrier of entry, which is a terrible idea considering what PAX aims to be. And since a lot of the fun of PAX comes from the community and unofficial events, pouring more money into PAX doesn't translate directly into a better quality experience. People make PAX, not money. The money is there to pay for the expenses of PAX, and to pay the wage of people involved.
The only reason why it wouldn't is because some people would be unable to go because they don't have enough money.. and I stated that if you can't affored double ticket prices why are you even trying to go in the first place. This is not 10x ticket prices.. just double.
And no, tickets won't sell as fast, yes scalpers exist but will be drastically reduced, and it gives more funds to the expo for a better expo..
What do you like scalpers and fast selling tickets? From a business standpoint raising the prices is the correct thing to do, and even from a non-business standpoint it's the right thing to do.
Maybe you don't want it because you are scalping tickets yourself. Really only scalpers or people who BARELY make enough to afford 110$ a year would argue it's a bad idea.
Because aside from those 2 small groups its a GREAT idea!
The thing, Que_Ques, is that nothing you have posted is objectively better than anything else that has been posted, including keeping it the way it is. You are entitled to your subjective opinion that it's better, but continuing to say it is better over and over again doesn't make it so. PAX is faced with a bunch of options, none of which will make everyone happy. Picking between them is a subjective process, and as such simply arguing "this is better because I said so" isn't going to go anywhere. Discussion /is/ good, but only if it's done in good faith. You aren't addressing anyone else's points other than to continue saying that what you are saying is better, to you, and asking for other people to post things that might be even better, to you. This isn't the "make Que_Ques happy" thread, and discussing this the way you are is not in good faith.
if you can't afford double ticket prices why are you even trying to go in the first place
This type of reasoning has no place here. You're entitled to that opinion, but this isn't going to be a platform for you to yell about how people less well off than you shouldn't be able to go to PAX.
1) Scalpers are an extreme minority of ticket sales.
2) Doubling ticket prices would not "drastically reduce!!11!!" scalpers - they'd still make a decent enough margin to make it profitable.
3) Point 2 doesn't really matter due to Point 1, but I wanted 5 points.
4) Increasing the square footage of the WSCC does allow for more ticket sales because fire codes are based on net square footage of the space being used.
5) Even though everyone has said this already, you seem to miss the point all the time - true fans are going, that's why PAX sells out in an hour. If this wasn't the case, you would see tens of thousands of badges on Ebay after the sale up until PAX.
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The thing, Que_Ques, is that nothing you have posted is objectively better than anything else that has been posted, including keeping it the way it is. You are entitled to your subjective opinion that it's better, but continuing to say it is better over and over again doesn't make it so. PAX is faced with a bunch of options, none of which will make everyone happy. Picking between them is a subjective process, and as such simply arguing "this is better because I said so" isn't going to go anywhere. Discussion /is/ good, but only if it's done in good faith. You aren't addressing anyone else's points other than to continue saying that what you are saying is better, to you, and asking for other people to post things that might be even better, to you. This isn't the "make Que_Ques happy" thread, and discussing this the way you are is not in good faith.
I both agree and disagree with you on various points.
I agree that there is no option to make everyone happy, that's so close to impossible it's not even funny.
I disagree with you that I'm not addressing the other points posted, I have addressed them and gave reasons either for/against them.
I do agree this isn't the make me happy thread, I don't intended to come out on top and most people might just be disagreeing with me out of spite.
I never said "this is better because I said so" I gave clear reasons why a higher price is better. More expo money, slower ticket sales, fewer scalpers, and a overall higher quality of the expo.
While stating something over and over again won't make it happen, being a lemming and just accepting things as they are without trying to improve them is not my style. I know that some of the higher up people read these things and if I only post once trying to explain my point there is a VERY high chance they won't see it, but on the other hand if I continue to post reasons why it's a good idea and shoot down people's ignorance towards the idea there is a much better chance that they will start to truly consider this idea.
Just because PAX states now they won't change the price does not mean they never will. The price has gone up slightly over the years.. so it's not a stretch to say there might be a price hike soon.
The thing, Que_Ques, is that nothing you have posted is objectively better than anything else that has been posted, including keeping it the way it is. You are entitled to your subjective opinion that it's better, but continuing to say it is better over and over again doesn't make it so. PAX is faced with a bunch of options, none of which will make everyone happy. Picking between them is a subjective process, and as such simply arguing "this is better because I said so" isn't going to go anywhere. Discussion /is/ good, but only if it's done in good faith. You aren't addressing anyone else's points other than to continue saying that what you are saying is better, to you, and asking for other people to post things that might be even better, to you. This isn't the "make Que_Ques happy" thread, and discussing this the way you are is not in good faith.
I both agree and disagree with you on various points.
I agree that there is no option to make everyone happy, that's so close to impossible it's not even funny.
I disagree with you that I'm not addressing the other points posted, I have addressed them and gave reasons either for/against them.
I do agree this isn't the make me happy thread, I don't intended to come out on top and most people might just be disagreeing with me out of spite.
I never said "this is better because I said so" I gave clear reasons why a higher price is better. More expo money, slower ticket sales, fewer scalpers, and a overall higher quality of the expo.
While stating something over and over again won't make it happen, being a lemming and just accepting things as they are without trying to improve them is not my style. I know that some of the higher up people read these things and if I only post once trying to explain my point there is a VERY high chance they won't see it, but on the other hand if I continue to post reasons why it's a good idea and shoot down people's ignorance towards the idea there is a much better chance that they will start to truly consider this idea.
Just because PAX states now they won't change the price does not mean they never will. The price has gone up slightly over the years.. so it's not a stretch to say there might be a price hike soon.
No, you haven't actually addressed others' points. You have simply repeated your own. You have zero data to back up any of your claims, and you don't even make a compelling argument. You're the one pushing for a change, if you want people to listen to you, you need more than simply repeating yourself.
I can't speak for everyone, but I doubt people are disagreeing with you out of spite. I, for one, am disagreeing with you because you haven't presented any reason other than your own opinion for any of your points.
Fire codes are also based on exits as well, but yeah, increasing the capacity will increase tickets sold.
I would hope that the building planners would know how to optimize the addition of space by adding enough exits along with square footage, but I suppose I shouldn't make assumptions on an expansion that continues to not happen
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2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
Que Que doesn't understand that people have tried to do exactly what he is doing and expect results. The problem is that when you don't drop something that even the people running pax shot down, not only will they not read your posts, but you will be seen by them as just being irritating. But if bothering somone into submission IS your style, then go for it.
Fire codes are also based on exits as well, but yeah, increasing the capacity will increase tickets sold.
I would hope that the building planners would know how to optimize the addition of space by adding enough exits along with square footage, but I suppose I shouldn't make assumptions on an expansion that continues to not happen
It's a safe assumption the the design of of a convention center expansion would focus on increasing actual capacity.
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SilvertwinnGoing on 40."Get off my lawn!"Registered Userregular
So who's excited for the schedule?
I have to teach 4 newbies 'how to PAX' this year and that would help a great deal.
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CennediA strange manA strange landRegistered Userregular
I have to teach 4 newbies 'how to PAX' this year and that would help a great deal.
I am big time. I'm a newbie this year and will be bringing other newbies, so I'm gathering as much intel as I can now and plotting everything out. One question I do have is about the LoL Tourney that is going to happen 2 out of the four days. I don't know if this is an annual thing or something brand new, but how long for each day should it run? (Speculation is welcome)
Hopeful First Time Attendee of PAX Prime 2014.
[ X ] Badge
[ X ] Hotel
[ X ] Plane
Wish me luck!
I have to teach 4 newbies 'how to PAX' this year and that would help a great deal.
I am big time. I'm a newbie this year and will be bringing other newbies, so I'm gathering as much intel as I can now and plotting everything out. One question I do have is about the LoL Tourney that is going to happen 2 out of the four days. I don't know if this is an annual thing or something brand new, but how long for each day should it run? (Speculation is welcome)
My friend went last year and he was gone for most of the day... I am going to assume it was a good majority of the two(?) days unless he had wandered off. I didn't see him until probably the later afternoon or for dinner.
PAX Prime 2013 [X]
PAX Prime 2014 [X]
PAX Prime 2015 [X]
The thing, Que_Ques, is that nothing you have posted is objectively better than anything else that has been posted, including keeping it the way it is. You are entitled to your subjective opinion that it's better, but continuing to say it is better over and over again doesn't make it so. PAX is faced with a bunch of options, none of which will make everyone happy. Picking between them is a subjective process, and as such simply arguing "this is better because I said so" isn't going to go anywhere. Discussion /is/ good, but only if it's done in good faith. You aren't addressing anyone else's points other than to continue saying that what you are saying is better, to you, and asking for other people to post things that might be even better, to you. This isn't the "make Que_Ques happy" thread, and discussing this the way you are is not in good faith.
I both agree and disagree with you on various points.
I agree that there is no option to make everyone happy, that's so close to impossible it's not even funny.
I disagree with you that I'm not addressing the other points posted, I have addressed them and gave reasons either for/against them.
I do agree this isn't the make me happy thread, I don't intended to come out on top and most people might just be disagreeing with me out of spite.
I never said "this is better because I said so" I gave clear reasons why a higher price is better. More expo money, slower ticket sales, fewer scalpers, and a overall higher quality of the expo.
While stating something over and over again won't make it happen, being a lemming and just accepting things as they are without trying to improve them is not my style. I know that some of the higher up people read these things and if I only post once trying to explain my point there is a VERY high chance they won't see it, but on the other hand if I continue to post reasons why it's a good idea and shoot down people's ignorance towards the idea there is a much better chance that they will start to truly consider this idea.
Just because PAX states now they won't change the price does not mean they never will. The price has gone up slightly over the years.. so it's not a stretch to say there might be a price hike soon.
No, you haven't actually addressed others' points. You have simply repeated your own. You have zero data to back up any of your claims, and you don't even make a compelling argument. You're the one pushing for a change, if you want people to listen to you, you need more than simply repeating yourself.
I can't speak for everyone, but I doubt people are disagreeing with you out of spite. I, for one, am disagreeing with you because you haven't presented any reason other than your own opinion for any of your points.
Well I disagree with you and could go find all the posts that have me addressing the other people's points but that would take some time. I even addressed your point, so to say that is just slander, but that is your own opinion.
As for me having zero data, the book "Obey: Supply & Demand" illustrates very well what I am speaking of. This occurs in a ton of markets and yes PAX is a market, they are selling something so thus this apply to them.
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CennediA strange manA strange landRegistered Userregular
I have to teach 4 newbies 'how to PAX' this year and that would help a great deal.
I am big time. I'm a newbie this year and will be bringing other newbies, so I'm gathering as much intel as I can now and plotting everything out. One question I do have is about the LoL Tourney that is going to happen 2 out of the four days. I don't know if this is an annual thing or something brand new, but how long for each day should it run? (Speculation is welcome)
My friend went last year and he was gone for most of the day... I am going to assume it was a good majority of the two(?) days unless he had wandered off. I didn't see him until probably the later afternoon or for dinner.
Thank you for the quick response. I was thinking this as well. Not a LoL player, but I know at least one of my friends intends to park in front of the monitors to watch the matches for the full two days.
I think this is a bit of a waste with so much that PAX Prime has to offer so I'm trying to persuade some of the others not to buy into this. Spending all this money to get out there to spend half of my time not even playing the game?
Maybe I'm wrong though.
Hopeful First Time Attendee of PAX Prime 2014.
[ X ] Badge
[ X ] Hotel
[ X ] Plane
Wish me luck!
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BouwsTWanna come to a super soft birthday party?Registered Userregular
I have to teach 4 newbies 'how to PAX' this year and that would help a great deal.
I am big time. I'm a newbie this year and will be bringing other newbies, so I'm gathering as much intel as I can now and plotting everything out. One question I do have is about the LoL Tourney that is going to happen 2 out of the four days. I don't know if this is an annual thing or something brand new, but how long for each day should it run? (Speculation is welcome)
My friend went last year and he was gone for most of the day... I am going to assume it was a good majority of the two(?) days unless he had wandered off. I didn't see him until probably the later afternoon or for dinner.
Thank you for the quick response. I was thinking this as well. Not a LoL player, but I know at least one of my friends intends to park in front of the monitors to watch the matches for the full two days.
I think this is a bit of a waste with so much that PAX Prime has to offer so I'm trying to persuade some of the others not to buy into this. Spending all this money to get out there to spend half of my time not even playing the game?
Maybe I'm wrong though.
Eh, PAX is PAX for whatever that person is looking for. If they think LoL is awesome, to be bathed in that live audience and watching the spectacle might be better than ANYTHING else PAX may have to offer for them... And there's lots more PAX to see on the other two days/nights of the LoL tourney days. It's allllllllllllll good.
Between you and me, Peggy, I smoked this Juul and it did UNTHINKABLE things to my mind and body...
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CennediA strange manA strange landRegistered Userregular
I have to teach 4 newbies 'how to PAX' this year and that would help a great deal.
I am big time. I'm a newbie this year and will be bringing other newbies, so I'm gathering as much intel as I can now and plotting everything out. One question I do have is about the LoL Tourney that is going to happen 2 out of the four days. I don't know if this is an annual thing or something brand new, but how long for each day should it run? (Speculation is welcome)
My friend went last year and he was gone for most of the day... I am going to assume it was a good majority of the two(?) days unless he had wandered off. I didn't see him until probably the later afternoon or for dinner.
Thank you for the quick response. I was thinking this as well. Not a LoL player, but I know at least one of my friends intends to park in front of the monitors to watch the matches for the full two days.
I think this is a bit of a waste with so much that PAX Prime has to offer so I'm trying to persuade some of the others not to buy into this. Spending all this money to get out there to spend half of my time not even playing the game?
Maybe I'm wrong though.
Eh, PAX is PAX for whatever that person is looking for. If they think LoL is awesome, to be bathed in that live audience and watching the spectacle might be better than ANYTHING else PAX may have to offer for them... And there's lots more PAX to see on the other two days/nights of the LoL tourney days. It's allllllllllllll good.
You make a good point. Hopefully they will wander a bit and take in all the PAX-y goodness. Or at least attend some of the after hours stuff.
Hopeful First Time Attendee of PAX Prime 2014.
[ X ] Badge
[ X ] Hotel
[ X ] Plane
Wish me luck!
Well I disagree with you and could go find all the posts that have me addressing the other people's points but that would take some time. I even addressed your point, so to say that is just slander, but that is your own opinion.
As for me having zero data, the book "Obey: Supply & Demand" illustrates very well what I am speaking of. This occurs in a ton of markets and yes PAX is a market, they are selling something so thus this apply to them.
Yes I have also taken an economics course. I don't know what to tell you though other than that PAX has already stated that they aren't going to raise the price to market equilibrium. That's not a thing they're interested in doing. You are fighting a battle that has already had its outcome decided.
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BouwsTWanna come to a super soft birthday party?Registered Userregular
I have to teach 4 newbies 'how to PAX' this year and that would help a great deal.
I am big time. I'm a newbie this year and will be bringing other newbies, so I'm gathering as much intel as I can now and plotting everything out. One question I do have is about the LoL Tourney that is going to happen 2 out of the four days. I don't know if this is an annual thing or something brand new, but how long for each day should it run? (Speculation is welcome)
My friend went last year and he was gone for most of the day... I am going to assume it was a good majority of the two(?) days unless he had wandered off. I didn't see him until probably the later afternoon or for dinner.
Thank you for the quick response. I was thinking this as well. Not a LoL player, but I know at least one of my friends intends to park in front of the monitors to watch the matches for the full two days.
I think this is a bit of a waste with so much that PAX Prime has to offer so I'm trying to persuade some of the others not to buy into this. Spending all this money to get out there to spend half of my time not even playing the game?
Maybe I'm wrong though.
Eh, PAX is PAX for whatever that person is looking for. If they think LoL is awesome, to be bathed in that live audience and watching the spectacle might be better than ANYTHING else PAX may have to offer for them... And there's lots more PAX to see on the other two days/nights of the LoL tourney days. It's allllllllllllll good.
You make a good point. Hopefully they will wander a bit and take in all the PAX-y goodness. Or at least attend some of the after hours stuff.
I for one would spend a PAX day watching SC2, if they had a big tourney on... The lights, the cheering, the excitement, the proxy pylons, OH MY.
Between you and me, Peggy, I smoked this Juul and it did UNTHINKABLE things to my mind and body...
Well I disagree with you and could go find all the posts that have me addressing the other people's points but that would take some time. I even addressed your point, so to say that is just slander, but that is your own opinion.
As for me having zero data, the book "Obey: Supply & Demand" illustrates very well what I am speaking of. This occurs in a ton of markets and yes PAX is a market, they are selling something so thus this apply to them.
Yes I have also taken an economics course. I don't know what to tell you though other than that PAX has already stated that they aren't going to raise the price to market equilibrium. That's not a thing they're interested in doing. You are fighting a battle that has already had its outcome decided.
Maybe, but PAX has told us things and then changed their mind. As I stated before they have slightly increased prices over the years. (And next year I bet it will be a little more like 5~10 $$). They can say no we won't do this, but their actions speak louder than words. I just want them to double the price instead of an extra 5~10. Just skip a few years of them passively aggressively doing this and get to the point.
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SkeleVaderYour Friendly Dark Lord of DestructionRegistered Userregular
Well I disagree with you and could go find all the posts that have me addressing the other people's points but that would take some time. I even addressed your point, so to say that is just slander, but that is your own opinion.
As for me having zero data, the book "Obey: Supply & Demand" illustrates very well what I am speaking of. This occurs in a ton of markets and yes PAX is a market, they are selling something so thus this apply to them.
Yes I have also taken an economics course. I don't know what to tell you though other than that PAX has already stated that they aren't going to raise the price to market equilibrium. That's not a thing they're interested in doing. You are fighting a battle that has already had its outcome decided.
Maybe, but PAX has told us things and then changed their mind. As I stated before they have slightly increased prices over the years. (And next year I bet it will be a little more like 5~10 $$). They can say no we won't do this, but their actions speak louder than words. I just want them to double the price instead of an extra 5~10. Just skip a few years of them passively aggressively doing this and get to the point.
As @mcdermott has stated before, you can go buy a Pax Prime 4-day badge through official channels right now for $474, and you get to go to Dev for two days. There is your dramatic price increase that lets the "Real" fans go to Pax.
What you should be pushing for is raising just the 4-day badge to be more than single days (or eliminate it). This has been discussed to death as well, but it is something that could actually help the problem.
I have to teach 4 newbies 'how to PAX' this year and that would help a great deal.
I am big time. I'm a newbie this year and will be bringing other newbies, so I'm gathering as much intel as I can now and plotting everything out. One question I do have is about the LoL Tourney that is going to happen 2 out of the four days. I don't know if this is an annual thing or something brand new, but how long for each day should it run? (Speculation is welcome)
LoL Informational Post (anecdotes via Hingo):
If you have friends that are really into LoL, you have to go watch the games. Watching a live esports event is MUCH different than watching a stream on tv. I generally spend 6-8 hours of a single day at PAX watching LoL (you could probably stay for 10+ hours each day). Why? They don't have any live events anywhere near Minneapolis. Also, I'm not flying to LA just to watch a match and then go home. If I can tack it on to an existing vacation, I'm going to do it. Riot Games say they don't let people back in if they leave, but that's a white lie. You can get a ticket to go to the bathroom with a timestamp on it, giving you 5/10 minutes to leave, do your business, and come back. Be warned, though - do not go by yourself unless you want to lose your seat the second you have to go to the bathroom. People at PAX are nice, but people that are standing for 3 hours could care less about your bladder.
How soon should I get in line for LoL? ASAP. If you aren't at the venue within 30 minutes of it opening, you're probably going to be stuck in standing room only locations for the next hour or 4. LoL is extremely popular to a subset of PAX-goers, so it's just the nature of the beast.
What days should I watch? WATCH ALL THE THINGS! If you're with a group, come to a consensus. My wife can only handle around 6 hours of sitting still before she goes stir-crazy (and she likes watching LoL), so we try and limit it to that. I usually pick the day that doesn't have any panels that are "must attend" panels for me and plan around that.
I want to meet the teams! Where do I do this? Follow the teams/players on twitter that you're interested in. TSM, CLG, and Cloud9 all had separate autograph sections at different sponsor booths at PAX. There was probably a time frame of around 25-30 minutes where C9 was just hanging out on couches at a sponsor booth with no one really knowing who they were or even talking with them.
I'm not really into playing the game, but I love the art style. Is there anything for me? Hopefully there is again this year! The awesome Riot art people had a panel last Prime, and if the Wacom booth is at PAX again, you might even get to stand around and watch IronStylus or GrumpyMonkey just sitting there and drawing for hours on end. If that doesn't happen, there are always a metric crap ton of LoL cosplayers out and about, and the Riot character statues are always extremely well done.
Edit: Hmmm, now that I've posted this, it seems like it might be OT for this thread and possibly could go in the FAQ.
Hingo on
Pins for trade!
2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
I have to teach 4 newbies 'how to PAX' this year and that would help a great deal.
I am big time. I'm a newbie this year and will be bringing other newbies, so I'm gathering as much intel as I can now and plotting everything out. One question I do have is about the LoL Tourney that is going to happen 2 out of the four days. I don't know if this is an annual thing or something brand new, but how long for each day should it run? (Speculation is welcome)
LoL Informational Post (anecdotes via Hingo):
If you have friends that are really into LoL, you have to go watch the games. Watching a live esports event is MUCH different than watching a stream on tv. I generally spend 6-8 hours of a single day at PAX watching LoL (you could probably stay for 10+ hours each day). Why? They don't have any live events anywhere near Minneapolis. Also, I'm not flying to LA just to watch a match and then go home. If I can tack it on to an existing vacation, I'm going to do it. Riot Games say they don't let people back in if they leave, but that's a white lie. You can get a ticket to go to the bathroom with a timestamp on it, giving you 5/10 minutes to leave, do your business, and come back. Be warned, though - do not go by yourself unless you want to lose your seat the second you have to go to the bathroom. People at PAX are nice, but people that are standing for 3 hours could care less about your bladder.
How soon should I get in line for LoL? ASAP. If you aren't at the venue within 30 minutes of it opening, you're probably going to be stuck in standing room only locations for the next hour or 4. LoL is extremely popular to a subset of PAX-goers, so it's just the nature of the beast.
What days should I watch? WATCH ALL THE THINGS! If you're with a group, come to a consensus. My wife can only handle around 6 hours of sitting still before she goes stir-crazy (and she likes watching LoL), so we try and limit it to that. I usually pick the day that doesn't have any panels that are "must attend" panels for me and plan around that.
I want to meet the teams! Where do I do this? Follow the teams/players on twitter that you're interested in. TSM, CLG, and Cloud9 all had separate autograph sections at different sponsor booths at PAX. There was probably a time frame of around 25-30 minutes where C9 was just hanging out on couches at a sponsor booth with no one really knowing who they were or even talking with them.
I'm not really into playing the game, but I love the art style. Is there anything for me? Hopefully there is again this year! The awesome Riot art people had a panel last Prime, and if the Wacom booth is at PAX again, you might even get to stand around and watch IronStylus or GrumpyMonkey just sitting there and drawing for hours on end. If that doesn't happen, there are always a metric crap ton of LoL cosplayers out and about, and the Riot character statues are always extremely well done.
adias.angel on
♥ Prime '12, '13, '14, '15, '19 ..♥ East '12
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CennediA strange manA strange landRegistered Userregular
I have to teach 4 newbies 'how to PAX' this year and that would help a great deal.
I am big time. I'm a newbie this year and will be bringing other newbies, so I'm gathering as much intel as I can now and plotting everything out. One question I do have is about the LoL Tourney that is going to happen 2 out of the four days. I don't know if this is an annual thing or something brand new, but how long for each day should it run? (Speculation is welcome)
LoL Informational Post (anecdotes via Hingo):
If you have friends that are really into LoL, you have to go watch the games. Watching a live esports event is MUCH different than watching a stream on tv. I generally spend 6-8 hours of a single day at PAX watching LoL (you could probably stay for 10+ hours each day). Why? They don't have any live events anywhere near Minneapolis. Also, I'm not flying to LA just to watch a match and then go home. If I can tack it on to an existing vacation, I'm going to do it. Riot Games say they don't let people back in if they leave, but that's a white lie. You can get a ticket to go to the bathroom with a timestamp on it, giving you 5/10 minutes to leave, do your business, and come back. Be warned, though - do not go by yourself unless you want to lose your seat the second you have to go to the bathroom. People at PAX are nice, but people that are standing for 3 hours could care less about your bladder.
How soon should I get in line for LoL? ASAP. If you aren't at the venue within 30 minutes of it opening, you're probably going to be stuck in standing room only locations for the next hour or 4. LoL is extremely popular to a subset of PAX-goers, so it's just the nature of the beast.
What days should I watch? WATCH ALL THE THINGS! If you're with a group, come to a consensus. My wife can only handle around 6 hours of sitting still before she goes stir-crazy (and she likes watching LoL), so we try and limit it to that. I usually pick the day that doesn't have any panels that are "must attend" panels for me and plan around that.
I want to meet the teams! Where do I do this? Follow the teams/players on twitter that you're interested in. TSM, CLG, and Cloud9 all had separate autograph sections at different sponsor booths at PAX. There was probably a time frame of around 25-30 minutes where C9 was just hanging out on couches at a sponsor booth with no one really knowing who they were or even talking with them.
I'm not really into playing the game, but I love the art style. Is there anything for me? Hopefully there is again this year! The awesome Riot art people had a panel last Prime, and if the Wacom booth is at PAX again, you might even get to stand around and watch IronStylus or GrumpyMonkey just sitting there and drawing for hours on end. If that doesn't happen, there are always a metric crap ton of LoL cosplayers out and about, and the Riot character statues are always extremely well done.
Edit: Hmmm, now that I've posted this, it seems like it might be OT for this thread and possibly could go in the FAQ.
*Laughs* Well thank you for the great amount of information, that I will attempt to pass on to my friend, but you will not find me fighting for a seat in the audience. I do not play LoL and have no interest in watching the tourney. I'm going to chalk that up to thinning the crowds and making the lines for things that I do want to see that much shorter. I'm not so tied to my group that I will force them to miss stuff they want to watch that badly, nor will I tag along out of simple need to be a part of the group.
Hopeful First Time Attendee of PAX Prime 2014.
[ X ] Badge
[ X ] Hotel
[ X ] Plane
Wish me luck!
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SkeleVaderYour Friendly Dark Lord of DestructionRegistered Userregular
I really hope they move LOL to Benaroya Hall this year. It seemed to be a great place for the Halo event last year and with LOL being such a specific draw to a large number of people it would do well in it's own area.
I really hope they move LOL to Benaroya Hall this year. It seemed to be a great place for the Halo event last year and with LOL being such a specific draw to a large number of people it would do well in it's own area.
So much this. I love LoL, but the location messes up with a lot of other things at PAX (long lines, not enough chairs, etc.). I always feel bad for the poor indie guys that have to compete with Riot's audio setups. Those walls don't provide much in the sound-proofing department.
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2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
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The Word of BirdMight be in a dreamland....Registered Userregular
I really hope they move LOL to Benaroya Hall this year. It seemed to be a great place for the Halo event last year and with LOL being such a specific draw to a large number of people it would do well in it's own area.
I just hope they don't try to put it in the Annex like they did for Halo Fest. It was fine for Halo Fest, but LOL is really HUGE, so that would mess with the tabletop gaming space.
Gaming since 1986.
Things I need to learn: To properly knit, speak Klingon, and speak/read Japanese so I can play Final Fantasy games in their original language.
"S.o.o.n." : "'Severe Obligation to Observe' Neurosis". This Neurosis impels the subject to constantly observe an object, waiting for a change they are certain must come "Soon".
Hotel [x] Pax Badgers Fri [x] Sat [ ] Sun [x] Mon [x] Just need 2 Saturdays, and then our sets will be complete! And then...waiting for Pax.....F5F5F5F5F5F5F5....
Well I disagree with you and could go find all the posts that have me addressing the other people's points but that would take some time. I even addressed your point, so to say that is just slander, but that is your own opinion.
As for me having zero data, the book "Obey: Supply & Demand" illustrates very well what I am speaking of. This occurs in a ton of markets and yes PAX is a market, they are selling something so thus this apply to them.
Yes I have also taken an economics course. I don't know what to tell you though other than that PAX has already stated that they aren't going to raise the price to market equilibrium. That's not a thing they're interested in doing. You are fighting a battle that has already had its outcome decided.
I too have taken an economics course (courses, actually), and event ticketing was IIRC covered specifically as an interesting example where equilibrium prices are rarely reached and are, for various reasons, potentially suboptimal.
Well I disagree with you and could go find all the posts that have me addressing the other people's points but that would take some time. I even addressed your point, so to say that is just slander, but that is your own opinion.
As for me having zero data, the book "Obey: Supply & Demand" illustrates very well what I am speaking of. This occurs in a ton of markets and yes PAX is a market, they are selling something so thus this apply to them.
Yes I have also taken an economics course. I don't know what to tell you though other than that PAX has already stated that they aren't going to raise the price to market equilibrium. That's not a thing they're interested in doing. You are fighting a battle that has already had its outcome decided.
I too have taken an economics course (courses, actually), and event ticketing was IIRC covered specifically as an interesting example where equilibrium prices are rarely reached and are, for various reasons, potentially suboptimal.
It truly is, I know hockey tickets vs badges isn't really the same the fact that ticket prices here are through the roof pricing out the "not true fans" means the atmosphere sucks butt.
As for the whole "if they can't afford an extra $X" thats also somewhat misleading. What about the folks who fly to Seattle who are already forking over quite a bit of $ to attend prime making it an extra $100 - $200 might be too much for them (or it drastically cuts into their spending $). The fact that raising the prices removes a certain amount of people sucks regardless, even if I missed badges I wouldn't want them to up the price just so I had a better chance of going. A huge reason why people love Pax (aside from their love of all things gaming) is that it is affordable, raising the price goes against all that.
You also seemed to gloss over everything else, why should PA work with the hotels to try and get a Pax discount for guests? why not just let hotels charge their usual rates, again should mean more "true" fans get to go.
As others have said the "true" fans can still go through unofficial channels and pay however much they want to go & I still think Pax sells out just as fast even if they double the price, so therefore nothing is solved it literally is just passing badges from person X to person Y (I also think how much a person pays for the badge doesn't in the slightest make them a better or true fan)
I think Cardkid proposed something interesting and that is have badges for East Prime & South go on at the same time which gives people the option of going to 1 Pax or coordinate between a larger group to get tickets to all of them.
The main issue with this would be the load on servers would most likely cause them to meltdown quickly. Still though That to me is something legitimate that would give people something to decide and may prevent 1 pax from selling out in an hour or so.
As for my comment about Pax, I meant Pax in general not really talking about badges & sales etc I should have clarified it but I mean I like how Pax is now something that is affordable for everyone ranging from families, students, just graduated students, people just starting careers or changing careers to ones that are doing well off etc.
Right now the best thing for all involved is the expansion to the WSCC as it adds a ton more square footage (almost double I think) so that adds up a whole whack more badges, unfortunately who knows when this will happen and be completed.
Oh my goodness
Oh my Dayum
Oh my goodness
They goin' Ham
Ok. I've been trying to be intellectually honest with this question and I'm willing to entertain part of Ques-Ques idea. So here's my suggestion:
Offer VIP tickets at outrageous prices. Make them limited, and offer something that won't piss off regular pax attendees. Do a VIP presale or post sale, make them 1k or something (Blizzard does something like this with a dinner) and have a dinner with PA or something during the event. I mean, everyone's gotta eat.
This STILL reduces the pool of tickets available. This is STILL taking the tickets out of someone elses hands. But if this were linked to child's play or something it would be great.
Here's what I don't understand about the suggestions to drastically raise badge prices, particularly when said as a means of cutting back on scalping. People with lots of money who can afford to pay greatly increased ticket prices already can ensure themselves a badge to PAX...by buying from a secondary market. All you do by increasing ticket prices is making it so that paying more money is the only way to get yourself a badge. If you're willing to pay more money if it meant a better chance at getting a badge, congratulations, that option is already in existence for you.
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PA wants PAX to be as affordable as possible. They are not going to drastically jack the price up. PAX has been selling out faster because it has gotten more popular. Supply vs Demand. X<<<<<<Y. Scalpers are a very minor problem.
Now take your arguments elsewhere. They have been argued in circles for a long time, and no progress has been made. And none likely will until the Convention center expansion is complete.
Dude, stop. Raising the price tickets would NOT help resolve those issues. Not in the slightest. It wouldn't do ANYthing good. All it'd do is make PAX less accessible to the everyperson, making PAX stray away from its mission of creating a community-based convention for all (read: any) gamer to enjoy.
Also, drop the "true loyal fan". That's a True Scot fallacy. There is no "true" fan. If you like games, if you like PA, or PAX, or just hang around friends who love games, you're welcome to PAX. It's not some elite club for the person who reads the comics, hangs in the forums, plays all games. It's for whoever buys the tickets.
Even if the prices rise, it'll sell out exactly as fast. The reason Chuck says PAX is perfect the way it is is not because PAX is "perfect", but because all of the issues regarding badges cannot be solved by a simple solution, or solved at all. Raising the price of badges wouldn't help anything. All it can do is negative.
They may even be available still. Haven't checked in a couple days.
You want to spend $300 to get a badge (a four-day, even!) then, you know, go do it.
If that is true why not lower the price!?! And even if the Convention center expansion is complete they won't sell more tickets.. you know why? because fire codes only allow a certain number of people in the building.. so more tickets = more people. Even if they want them spread out they won't always be and thus fire marshal shuts it down.. Think about it and I'm sure it will come to you.
I only keep arguing this point so more and more people will see the truth and hopefully start to back the idea of higher prices.
How would raising ticket prices not resolve any of the issues I stated? You say it won't but have nothing to back your logic.. thus your logic is flawed. I gave very clear reasons why raising the prices would help pax, if you expect me to even consider your side then please have something to back your reasoning.... I do for mine. (Read previous posts)
Beating a head horse indeed.
The only reason why it wouldn't is because some people would be unable to go because they don't have enough money.. and I stated that if you can't affored double ticket prices why are you even trying to go in the first place. This is not 10x ticket prices.. just double.
And no, tickets won't sell as fast, yes scalpers exist but will be drastically reduced, and it gives more funds to the expo for a better expo..
What do you like scalpers and fast selling tickets? From a business standpoint raising the prices is the correct thing to do, and even from a non-business standpoint it's the right thing to do.
Maybe you don't want it because you are scalping tickets yourself. Really only scalpers or people who BARELY make enough to afford 110$ a year would argue it's a bad idea.
Because aside from those 2 small groups its a GREAT idea!
request removed.
2) Doubling ticket prices would not "drastically reduce!!11!!" scalpers - they'd still make a decent enough margin to make it profitable.
3) Point 2 doesn't really matter due to Point 1, but I wanted 5 points.
4) Increasing the square footage of the WSCC does allow for more ticket sales because fire codes are based on net square footage of the space being used.
5) Even though everyone has said this already, you seem to miss the point all the time - true fans are going, that's why PAX sells out in an hour. If this wasn't the case, you would see tens of thousands of badges on Ebay after the sale up until PAX.
2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
I both agree and disagree with you on various points.
I agree that there is no option to make everyone happy, that's so close to impossible it's not even funny.
I disagree with you that I'm not addressing the other points posted, I have addressed them and gave reasons either for/against them.
I do agree this isn't the make me happy thread, I don't intended to come out on top and most people might just be disagreeing with me out of spite.
I never said "this is better because I said so" I gave clear reasons why a higher price is better. More expo money, slower ticket sales, fewer scalpers, and a overall higher quality of the expo.
While stating something over and over again won't make it happen, being a lemming and just accepting things as they are without trying to improve them is not my style. I know that some of the higher up people read these things and if I only post once trying to explain my point there is a VERY high chance they won't see it, but on the other hand if I continue to post reasons why it's a good idea and shoot down people's ignorance towards the idea there is a much better chance that they will start to truly consider this idea.
Just because PAX states now they won't change the price does not mean they never will. The price has gone up slightly over the years.. so it's not a stretch to say there might be a price hike soon.
And badges have been selling faster and faster over the years.
I can't speak for everyone, but I doubt people are disagreeing with you out of spite. I, for one, am disagreeing with you because you haven't presented any reason other than your own opinion for any of your points.
2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
It's a safe assumption the the design of of a convention center expansion would focus on increasing actual capacity.
I have to teach 4 newbies 'how to PAX' this year and that would help a great deal.
I am big time. I'm a newbie this year and will be bringing other newbies, so I'm gathering as much intel as I can now and plotting everything out. One question I do have is about the LoL Tourney that is going to happen 2 out of the four days. I don't know if this is an annual thing or something brand new, but how long for each day should it run? (Speculation is welcome)
[ X ] Badge
[ X ] Hotel
[ X ] Plane
Wish me luck!
My friend went last year and he was gone for most of the day... I am going to assume it was a good majority of the two(?) days unless he had wandered off. I didn't see him until probably the later afternoon or for dinner.
PAX Prime 2014 [X]
PAX Prime 2015 [X]
Well I disagree with you and could go find all the posts that have me addressing the other people's points but that would take some time. I even addressed your point, so to say that is just slander, but that is your own opinion.
As for me having zero data, the book "Obey: Supply & Demand" illustrates very well what I am speaking of. This occurs in a ton of markets and yes PAX is a market, they are selling something so thus this apply to them.
Thank you for the quick response. I was thinking this as well. Not a LoL player, but I know at least one of my friends intends to park in front of the monitors to watch the matches for the full two days.
I think this is a bit of a waste with so much that PAX Prime has to offer so I'm trying to persuade some of the others not to buy into this. Spending all this money to get out there to spend half of my time not even playing the game?
Maybe I'm wrong though.
[ X ] Badge
[ X ] Hotel
[ X ] Plane
Wish me luck!
Eh, PAX is PAX for whatever that person is looking for. If they think LoL is awesome, to be bathed in that live audience and watching the spectacle might be better than ANYTHING else PAX may have to offer for them... And there's lots more PAX to see on the other two days/nights of the LoL tourney days. It's allllllllllllll good.
You make a good point. Hopefully they will wander a bit and take in all the PAX-y goodness. Or at least attend some of the after hours stuff.
[ X ] Badge
[ X ] Hotel
[ X ] Plane
Wish me luck!
I for one would spend a PAX day watching SC2, if they had a big tourney on... The lights, the cheering, the excitement, the proxy pylons, OH MY.
Maybe, but PAX has told us things and then changed their mind. As I stated before they have slightly increased prices over the years. (And next year I bet it will be a little more like 5~10 $$). They can say no we won't do this, but their actions speak louder than words. I just want them to double the price instead of an extra 5~10. Just skip a few years of them passively aggressively doing this and get to the point.
As @mcdermott has stated before, you can go buy a Pax Prime 4-day badge through official channels right now for $474, and you get to go to Dev for two days. There is your dramatic price increase that lets the "Real" fans go to Pax.
What you should be pushing for is raising just the 4-day badge to be more than single days (or eliminate it). This has been discussed to death as well, but it is something that could actually help the problem.
LoL Informational Post (anecdotes via Hingo):
If you have friends that are really into LoL, you have to go watch the games. Watching a live esports event is MUCH different than watching a stream on tv. I generally spend 6-8 hours of a single day at PAX watching LoL (you could probably stay for 10+ hours each day). Why? They don't have any live events anywhere near Minneapolis. Also, I'm not flying to LA just to watch a match and then go home. If I can tack it on to an existing vacation, I'm going to do it. Riot Games say they don't let people back in if they leave, but that's a white lie. You can get a ticket to go to the bathroom with a timestamp on it, giving you 5/10 minutes to leave, do your business, and come back. Be warned, though - do not go by yourself unless you want to lose your seat the second you have to go to the bathroom. People at PAX are nice, but people that are standing for 3 hours could care less about your bladder.
How soon should I get in line for LoL? ASAP. If you aren't at the venue within 30 minutes of it opening, you're probably going to be stuck in standing room only locations for the next hour or 4. LoL is extremely popular to a subset of PAX-goers, so it's just the nature of the beast.
What days should I watch? WATCH ALL THE THINGS! If you're with a group, come to a consensus. My wife can only handle around 6 hours of sitting still before she goes stir-crazy (and she likes watching LoL), so we try and limit it to that. I usually pick the day that doesn't have any panels that are "must attend" panels for me and plan around that.
I want to meet the teams! Where do I do this? Follow the teams/players on twitter that you're interested in. TSM, CLG, and Cloud9 all had separate autograph sections at different sponsor booths at PAX. There was probably a time frame of around 25-30 minutes where C9 was just hanging out on couches at a sponsor booth with no one really knowing who they were or even talking with them.
I'm not really into playing the game, but I love the art style. Is there anything for me? Hopefully there is again this year! The awesome Riot art people had a panel last Prime, and if the Wacom booth is at PAX again, you might even get to stand around and watch IronStylus or GrumpyMonkey just sitting there and drawing for hours on end. If that doesn't happen, there are always a metric crap ton of LoL cosplayers out and about, and the Riot character statues are always extremely well done.
Edit: Hmmm, now that I've posted this, it seems like it might be OT for this thread and possibly could go in the FAQ.
2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
*Laughs* Well thank you for the great amount of information, that I will attempt to pass on to my friend, but you will not find me fighting for a seat in the audience. I do not play LoL and have no interest in watching the tourney. I'm going to chalk that up to thinning the crowds and making the lines for things that I do want to see that much shorter. I'm not so tied to my group that I will force them to miss stuff they want to watch that badly, nor will I tag along out of simple need to be a part of the group.
[ X ] Badge
[ X ] Hotel
[ X ] Plane
Wish me luck!
So much this. I love LoL, but the location messes up with a lot of other things at PAX (long lines, not enough chairs, etc.). I always feel bad for the poor indie guys that have to compete with Riot's audio setups. Those walls don't provide much in the sound-proofing department.
2015 PAX Prime Omeganaut (I will forever hate Katamari)
Things I need to learn: To properly knit, speak Klingon, and speak/read Japanese so I can play Final Fantasy games in their original language.
"S.o.o.n." : "'Severe Obligation to Observe' Neurosis". This Neurosis impels the subject to constantly observe an object, waiting for a change they are certain must come "Soon".
Hotel [x] Pax Badgers Fri [x] Sat [ ] Sun [x] Mon [x] Just need 2 Saturdays, and then our sets will be complete! And then...waiting for Pax.....F5F5F5F5F5F5F5....
I too have taken an economics course (courses, actually), and event ticketing was IIRC covered specifically as an interesting example where equilibrium prices are rarely reached and are, for various reasons, potentially suboptimal.
It truly is, I know hockey tickets vs badges isn't really the same the fact that ticket prices here are through the roof pricing out the "not true fans" means the atmosphere sucks butt.
As for the whole "if they can't afford an extra $X" thats also somewhat misleading. What about the folks who fly to Seattle who are already forking over quite a bit of $ to attend prime making it an extra $100 - $200 might be too much for them (or it drastically cuts into their spending $). The fact that raising the prices removes a certain amount of people sucks regardless, even if I missed badges I wouldn't want them to up the price just so I had a better chance of going. A huge reason why people love Pax (aside from their love of all things gaming) is that it is affordable, raising the price goes against all that.
You also seemed to gloss over everything else, why should PA work with the hotels to try and get a Pax discount for guests? why not just let hotels charge their usual rates, again should mean more "true" fans get to go.
As others have said the "true" fans can still go through unofficial channels and pay however much they want to go & I still think Pax sells out just as fast even if they double the price, so therefore nothing is solved it literally is just passing badges from person X to person Y (I also think how much a person pays for the badge doesn't in the slightest make them a better or true fan)
I think Cardkid proposed something interesting and that is have badges for East Prime & South go on at the same time which gives people the option of going to 1 Pax or coordinate between a larger group to get tickets to all of them.
The main issue with this would be the load on servers would most likely cause them to meltdown quickly. Still though That to me is something legitimate that would give people something to decide and may prevent 1 pax from selling out in an hour or so.
As for my comment about Pax, I meant Pax in general not really talking about badges & sales etc I should have clarified it but I mean I like how Pax is now something that is affordable for everyone ranging from families, students, just graduated students, people just starting careers or changing careers to ones that are doing well off etc.
Right now the best thing for all involved is the expansion to the WSCC as it adds a ton more square footage (almost double I think) so that adds up a whole whack more badges, unfortunately who knows when this will happen and be completed.
Oh my Dayum
Oh my goodness
They goin' Ham
Offer VIP tickets at outrageous prices. Make them limited, and offer something that won't piss off regular pax attendees. Do a VIP presale or post sale, make them 1k or something (Blizzard does something like this with a dinner) and have a dinner with PA or something during the event. I mean, everyone's gotta eat.
This STILL reduces the pool of tickets available. This is STILL taking the tickets out of someone elses hands. But if this were linked to child's play or something it would be great.