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[Mass Effect] Vigil's Theme, still giving us chills after all these years.

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  • Renegade WolfRenegade Wolf Registered User regular
    That's a bit unfair

    Citadel makes most of ME3 look pretty bad by comparison really

    CambiataCaptainNemo
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    One thing that really irked me was like, NOTHING was made of the Collector base in ME3, no matter what you did with it.

    Lanlaorn
  • AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    One thing that really irked me was like, NOTHING was made of the Collector base in ME3, no matter what you did with it.

    It does change the default ending if you don't have enough war assets, but I think that qualifies as "nothing".

  • Renegade WolfRenegade Wolf Registered User regular
    One thing that really irked me was like, NOTHING was made of the Collector base in ME3, no matter what you did with it.

    Pretty sure it changes whether Cerberus has recovered the heart or the brain or some stupid thing like that

    Really given how it was literally the only big choice in ME2 it should have been way more of a big deal to punish everyone who thought it was a good idea to give it to cerberus

  • SoundsPlushSoundsPlush yup, back. Registered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Kai Leng is weird. It felt like half the time he was meant to be 'LEET KEWL BADASS' and the other half he was written by people who couldn't believe that a character this shit was the antagonist.

    I mean, look at the Citadel. On one hand, Shepard doesn't end him there and then, Anderson sells him as a threat. On the other? He's stopped by someone hacking the elevator to stop at every floor.

    Citadel elevators have long tried the patience of N7 operatives.

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  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    One thing that really irked me was like, NOTHING was made of the Collector base in ME3, no matter what you did with it.

    Pretty sure it changes whether Cerberus has recovered the heart or the brain or some stupid thing like that

    Really given how it was literally the only big choice in ME2 it should have been way more of a big deal to punish everyone who thought it was a good idea to give it to cerberus

    If only you could've given it to the Alliance. I mean, it's not like you didn't have the one and only Reaper IFF that let people through the Omega 4 relay on the Normandy, which you stole anyways....

    Lanlaorn
  • Fixer40000Fixer40000 Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    I played my Shep as good guy that wasn't afraid to do the necessary thing when he had to. This meant a lot of diplomacy interspersed with shooting assholes in the face. My Shep let the council die in first game because he felt the risk of Sovereign taking over the Citadel was to high for the lives of a few politicians and the crew of a single ship, no matter how badass that ship might be.

    Still, he blew up the Collector base because he felt the potential gains of the station were less than the possibility of Cerberus screwing everything up and getting themselves indoctrinated... again. They did not have a good track record with this shit. Despite reducing the entire station to it's constituent atoms though, somehow they still managed it. :\

    Since the ending of Mass Effect 3 is decided by war assets and those war assets can acquired in multiplayer it's possible for you to play a failshep who intentionally sabotages every single thing in the war with the reapers and still get the best possible results.

    Your choices are completely irrelevant up until you active the save-the-universe device which really doesn't give a satisfying ending relevant to the overriding contrast of Paragon vs Renegade.

    The only choices that have any real meaning in Mass Effect really come down to: Rannoch, Tuchanka and whether your buddies live or die.

    Conrad Verner had a more complete, variable and satisfying ending based on your previous choices than ME3 did.

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  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    Conrad is still one of my favorite moments of the game. The writing and voice acting for him and both Shepards is just so damn perfect.

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Citadel is one of the best things Bioware ever did, and really shows what they can do when EA's not shoving they're greasy hands in everything.

    Thinking about the ending,
    I still think it'd be a lot more powerful if Catalyst wore the face of the teammate you left to die on Virmire. Or perhaps multiple faces, depending on the question asked. Going from Liara to Saren to your own.

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  • shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    Man Tali's spec just never got any love from the campaign designers. In 2 she lacks Overload (the best robot fighting skill) despite being THE robot fighter apparently. She instead gets Energy Drain... after you've beaten every robot level there is. AWESOME. Just to be clear, hacking sucks. Any hacked character fights in a godawful, do-no-damage fashion and you're not allowed to just turn off their brain or rig them to explode Bioshock Infinite style for some reason. Instead you have to fight the thing, hopefully it wasn't standing in a compromising place when the hack randomly ends.

    In 3, she still doesn't get Overload. AND she is the only teammate character in the game who can't equip an automatic weapon. Which makes her automatically worse at fighting than any other person you could select (Typhoon covers all deficiencies, SMGs are an okay substitute in a pinch). Having one of the most light weight characters main Shotgun is apparently a joke Bioware found so funny they carried it across the entire trilogy. On the plus side... she's also the last to join. Shit, what is the deal Bioware? You buying into some of the Quarian hate from this thread or what? (Note that technical skills outside of combat was originally her niche, and Bioware immediately deleted that so...)

    For balance, I will say a nice thing about her fighting style. Uhh... it was unreasonably funny to watch her get shot in the face by Geth Primes I guess. Each time, recovering just enough to TRY to get to cover where I was directing her, before eating another shot to the face.

    Strikor
  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Tali's drone was actually pretty hand to distract Primes. For some reason they found the glowing ball a lot more threatening then the cyborg female Max Payne with a bright red machine gun the size of a Volkswagen beetle.

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  • Fixer40000Fixer40000 Registered User regular
    Tali's drone was actually pretty hand to distract Primes. For some reason they found the glowing ball a lot more threatening then the cyborg female Max Payne with a bright red machine gun the size of a Volkswagen beetle.

    Chikita Vas Paws did go for the optics.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Kai Leng is weird. It felt like half the time he was meant to be 'LEET KEWL BADASS' and the other half he was written by people who couldn't believe that a character this shit was the antagonist.

    I mean, look at the Citadel. On one hand, Shepard doesn't end him there and then, Anderson sells him as a threat. On the other? He's stopped by someone hacking the elevator to stop at every floor.

    He's supposed to be a badass, and yet both times I fought him all he did was flip back and forth and let me shoot at him. You're not Bayonetta dude, flipping doesn't get you invincibility frames. You're just getting shot.

  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    By the time you're comfortable with combat (and especially on repeat playthrus) Leng spends more time recharging shields in bullshit, plot-armor invincibility frames than actually fighting.

    I still found it a satisfying kill on the first time thru, simply because I bought in blind on the narrative. And Thane is my bro.

    And also because I channeled my anger over Leng's Plot Armor toward Leng the character instead of at the writers.

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Citadel is one of the best things Bioware ever did, and really shows what they can do when EA's not shoving they're greasy hands in everything.
    yes, obviously ME3's base game has a bad ending with no good carry over due to EA. Couldn't possibly be Bioware's fault at all. :roll:

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Yeah I think it was pretty clearly the opposite... Bioware screwed the pooch on the ending all on their own. EA pressured them into doing the EC, which if still deeply flawed was at least slightly less of a fuck-you.

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  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    Man, it makes total sense that Quarians are good with Shotguns. Like, if you need a room full of Geth cleared out quick? A Claymore is infinitely more useful than a Hurricane.

    Which is why it was a bad idea that the Female Quarians in MP didn't get a Shotgun weight reduction.

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited June 2014
    Yup totally agree with @Cambiata‌
    If EA wasn't getting horrible online complaints and wasn't worried about the PR disaster I don't think that Extended Cut would have ever come out since at first Bioware was very much standing firm with their beliefs on the ending, also I seriously doubt Citadel would have been the happy sendoff to every crew member ever that we all enjoy without EA pushing them to do something like that.

    If anything EA helped ME3 with post release pressure, AND, making Bioware include what turned out shockingly to be a fucking great multiplayer component.

    I looooooooooove the Mass Effect Series. After Half-Life it's my favourite game series in the history of video games, but the problems that ME3 has are all of Bioware's own doing. (and say this as someone who loves Bioware, I'm one of the few people who will staunchly defend Dragon Age 2!)

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    "Bioware taking a firm stance" means more like the people who wrote the ending, who were very high up on the totem pole, were taking a firm stance on it, and that meant everyone else had to agree with them.

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  • OrcaOrca Also known as Espressosaurus WrexRegistered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Yup totally agree with @Cambiata‌
    If EA wasn't getting horrible online complaints and wasn't worried about the PR disaster I don't think that Extended Cut would have ever come out since at first Bioware was very much standing firm with their beliefs on the ending, also I seriously doubt Citadel would have been the happy sendoff to every crew member ever that we all enjoy without EA pushing them to do something like that.

    If anything EA helped ME3 with post release pressure, AND, making Bioware include what turned out shockingly to be a fucking great multiplayer component.

    I looooooooooove the Mass Effect Series. After Half-Life it's my favourite game series in the history of video games, but the problems that ME3 has are all of Bioware's own doing. (and say this as someone who loves Bioware, I'm one of the few people who will staunchly defend Dragon Age 2!)

    After Half-Life? Feh! Feh I say!

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Bioware taking a firm stance" means more like the people who wrote the ending, who were very high up on the totem pole, were taking a firm stance on it, and that meant everyone else had to agree with them.
    uh... so? It doesn't matter why the company is doing it, just that they are doing it, and are still of that mentality years later

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  • kaceypkaceyp we stayed bright as lightning we sang loud as thunderRegistered User regular
    ^ I'm a big fan of DA2 (and DAO), but that's for another topic. One which I won't look at because I'm trying to avoid learning anything more about Inquisition. :\

    I had the benefit of playing ME3 for the first time after the Extended Cut (and Leviathan) has been released. So even though I do understand some of the issues with the ending (even now), I'm mostly okay with it. And I went with Control the first time, and thought that it was neat how being a Paragon or a Renegade influences that.

    But even aside from the ending, ME3 does enough things that I like to make it probably my favorite entry in the series. Tuchanka and Rannoch are great arcs, IMO, that can have very different endings based on choices both in that game and in the others. I love how the squadmates actually move around the ship and interact with each other regularly. I love that the game is more inclusive towards non-straight Shepards. I love that squadmates actually have things to say in the DLCs (aside from Omega).

    I think the level design and atmosphere is by far the best in the series. During that whole section walking around the underground ruins in Tuchanka (with the paintings), I was constantly waiting for things to jump out at me. But the whole place was just designed for added atmosphere and lore, which I think is awesome. I also think the gameplay is the most polished in the series. Really, my one complaint about the game overall is that I would have liked less of the infamous "autodialogue."

  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Heresy, ME2 is the best! But ya, I really really like ME3 still, I like it a lot, but man that pre Extended Cut Ending is gnarly, and the EC doesn't fix all that much.

    Also anybody who didn't pick Green Ending literally chose the wrong ending.

    Also it's hilarious how you can not post in the ME3 thread for a year and pick up right where you left off heh

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Green is always going to be a little too weird an explainable for me to ever choose it. They may as well have made it something like, "and if you choose this ending, everyone becomes immortal muppets" and then paid the Jim Henson company to act out the cutscene in muppet form.

    Although I guess I can see the appeal, you can make that ending whatever you want it to be. It's the ultimate happy ending.

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  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    ME Thread, that started as a joke, but now I am totally on board with Muppet acted Mass Effect.

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Bioware taking a firm stance" means more like the people who wrote the ending, who were very high up on the totem pole, were taking a firm stance on it, and that meant everyone else had to agree with them.
    uh... so? It doesn't matter why the company is doing it, just that they are doing it, and are still of that mentality years later

    It matters because we shouldn't assign blame to those who don't deserve it. The rest of the writing staff was pretty unhappy with how the ending turned out, even if they can't be frank about it and keep their jobs.

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    "Bioware taking a firm stance" means more like the people who wrote the ending, who were very high up on the totem pole, were taking a firm stance on it, and that meant everyone else had to agree with them.
    uh... so? It doesn't matter why the company is doing it, just that they are doing it, and are still of that mentality years later

    It matters because we shouldn't assign blame to those who don't deserve it. The rest of the writing staff was pretty unhappy with how the ending turned out, even if they can't be frank about it and keep their jobs.
    who gives a shit, the company is standing by their ending, I'm going to blame the company. I'm sure some guy doing Bioware QA hates the ending even more than me, that doesn't somehow make it not Bioware's fault that they can't make a good ending lol

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  • curly haired boycurly haired boy Your Friendly Neighborhood Torgue Dealer Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Green is always going to be a little too weird an explainable for me to ever choose it. They may as well have made it something like, "and if you choose this ending, everyone becomes immortal muppets" and then paid the Jim Henson company to act out the cutscene in muppet form.

    Although I guess I can see the appeal, you can make that ending whatever you want it to be. It's the ultimate happy ending.

    "It's not easy being green..."

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  • Blackbird SR-71CBlackbird SR-71C Registered User regular
    Still better than the original ending

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  • Fixer40000Fixer40000 Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Heresy, ME2 is the best! But ya, I really really like ME3 still, I like it a lot, but man that pre Extended Cut Ending is gnarly, and the EC doesn't fix all that much.

    Also anybody who didn't pick Green Ending literally chose the wrong ending.

    Also it's hilarious how you can not post in the ME3 thread for a year and pick up right where you left off heh

    I'm gonna have to disagree there :)
    Kid: So the REAL problem is that Organics and Synthetics are so different that they'll end up killing each other regardless of anything.
    Shep: Why?
    Kid: Because they are different. As we know, people who are different from each other cannot understand and thus will always kill each other.
    Shep: Okay, not only is that a bleak and racist concept. I literally solved a war between organics and synthetics about a day ago by getting them to understand each other.
    Kid: Regardless, this is the motivation for the giant race of independent godlike beings that are completely under my control. So we're going to merge all life together.
    Shep: How does that even work?
    Kid: We'll give everything tech-DNA!
    Shep: Okay that doesn't answer my question.
    Kid: Listen, all organic life in the galaxy will get green printed circuitboards covering them and machines will be filled with squishy organs. Plus free wifi.
    Shep: Which helps bridge the understanding between organics and synthetics by....?
    Kid: Subsuming everything into a massive hivemind and suppressing all independent thought. Thinking about it, since most of the life in human biospheres is insect and plant based, most of the hivemind will be made up of a giant self aware network of endlessly replicating ants, plankton, bees and trees.
    Shep: I'm going to shoot the things that blows you up now.
    Kid: Good call.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    It's funny, because DA2's problems were EA's fault.

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  • HardtargetHardtarget There Are Four Lights VancouverRegistered User regular
    Here's the thing about the ending, sure I think Green is the "best" ending of what you are given, but in a game all about communication the fact that you can't have a real conversation with the starchild where you can use your experiences of the last 3 games to prove that humanoids and synthetics can live together, especially if you chose to save the geth and make them have peace with the quarians, is SUUUUUUUUUUUUUPER FUCKED.

    Maybe if you can't prove this to the kid because your actions don't show it over the last few games then you have the bullshit 3 colours, but in my game I absolutely can prove we can all live together and the fact that Bioware gave me a ending with literally no choices, or any based on my hundreds of hours of gametime, is why I absolutely fucking abhor the ending. (but loved the journey)

    People have all kinds of various complaints about the ending, but for me this is really the only issue there is.

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  • Maledict66Maledict66 Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    Don't understand how you could think green was the best - you are literally playing god and overriding the free will of every being in the galaxy on the say-so of a completely insane AI. As either renegade or paragon I found it impossible to choose green because no-one should make that choice on behalf of everything that swims, crawls and walks in the entire galaxy.

    fundamentally, whilst it hurts losing the Geth and EDI, Red is the only sensible choice. I was willing to sacrifice earth and humanity to beat the reapers, and to be brutally honest losing only one race to end the cycle forever is a cheap price to pay.

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  • BobbleBobble Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    ME Thread, that started as a joke, but now I am totally on board with Muppet acted Mass Effect.
    Mental image of Joker with a muppet puppet:

    Assuming Direct Control

    *sticks hand into puppet*

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  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    Hardtarget wrote: »
    Citadel is one of the best things Bioware ever did, and really shows what they can do when EA's not shoving they're greasy hands in everything.
    yes, obviously ME3's base game has a bad ending with no good carry over due to EA. Couldn't possibly be Bioware's fault at all. :roll:

    Didn't an entirely different team do the two Earth segments?

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  • Maledict66Maledict66 Registered User regular
    No, the ending was written by the two head writers without the usual team review and critque that normally happens for Mass Effect ganes. That resulted in it being so completely and utterly tone deaf to the rest of the game and the series, and is why individual character segments of ME3 are fanatstically written (Mordin, Thane) but the ending was such hot garbage.

  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Registered User regular
    That part I had heard about, but I could've sworn the Earth gameplay was done by a different studio or somesuch. Anyway, if the word from D.Gaider is anything to go by, sounds like they're averting that for DA3, which is good to know.

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  • kaceypkaceyp we stayed bright as lightning we sang loud as thunderRegistered User regular
    I've yet to go with Synthesis. First was Paragon Control, then High-EMS Destroy, then Renegade Control (after watching Ashley and I think James get vaporized by Harbinger). Pretty sure my next one (maybe my next two, actually) will be Synthesis.

    Side Note: I actually accidentally picked Synthesis the first time, because apparently I wasn't paying attention and thought I was supposed to walk to the beam in the middle of the room to make my choice. And then of course the ending started and after a minute I was like "Wait...this isn't what I wanted." So then I had to restart from Marauder Shields or wherever and do it again.

    Oh, except there was some other issue either before that or after. Oh! I picked the Refuse option, because I had heard people say that it was a "fake option," which I took to mean that it would be a But Thou Must situation. Obviously, it's not. It's an actual option, albeit one that results in a fairly short and (arguably) unhappy ending. But I wanted my Shepard to resist before making a choice. And then everyone died.

    So I wound up playing through that last part three times before choosing the ending I actually intended to. D'oh.

  • Fixer40000Fixer40000 Registered User regular
    Where did it all go wrong though? :(

    It should have been simple.

    "How do we do the ending boss?"
    "Like the Suicide mission, but with the collected military forces of the galaxy instead of just your squadmates."
    "Should we have a choose A, B or C ending after that?"
    "No, that would be ridiculous considering that the choices the characters have made over the last three games should be shaping the galaxy. Plus we promised the fans we would avoid that exact situation."

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  • bloodatonementbloodatonement Registered User regular
    Bobble wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    ME Thread, that started as a joke, but now I am totally on board with Muppet acted Mass Effect.
    Mental image of Joker with a muppet puppet:

    Assuming Direct Control

    *sticks hand into puppet*

    Has Robot Chicken ever done any ME stuff?

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